Taphophilia Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I was reading Poonis thread about going to a meeting with Christians to cast doubt. Incidently, Poonis have you gone again? I have told a few Christians why I don't believe in Christianity anymore and they look at me like I have three heads. Now, I understand they are not just going to take my word for it, because who am I? However, I think since many Christians learn how to witness and win "souls" we ex-Christians should at least educate ourselves so we know how to cast doubt to the believer. What would be the best questions could we ask them, or what would be the best things to say to "sow a seed" of doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Ask them where the bible came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Ask them the question I never can get a Christian to answer. 1. Prove the bible is from god. They will say a bunch of verses most likely Then say that don’t prove anything just cause it says its true don’t make it true For some reason them two words stumps them ever time Prove it. They might say, “I feel it’s from god’ Say well I don’t so whose right? Ask them stuff that they cannot just thumb threw their bibles for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Ask them where the bible came from. How this for precision Why are you defending the opinion of fallible men? Many unknown men wrote various books who thought that they were inspired by God. Then after some years many men come together in a council and then decide in vote which books are actually inspired by God. Many of the authors have already died so they can present their case for all the books they write, and who knows how many scribes down the lane have already altered the books, thinking they were inspired by god ***cough*** pastors**cough** to correct the books. Yet even after this great council many of the rival groups of men do not have the same books. Then even then after a 1500 hundred years, a few men again decide that certain books should not been in the first place. And even though in they want to push out as many books as they deem fit, they still do manage to throw out considerable books So please tell considering the history as to how the bible came into formation, can you show me one divine intervention that would prove your protestant bible is the the "correct" and "absolute" word of god? That should throw them off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Challenger Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Ask them if they have ever even read the Bible all the way through. Most of the time when I ask (and I ask this of them a lot) the answer is in the negative. Then ask them why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The *Rod of Aaron/Moses FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The SWORD of Goliath FOUND...SAME GUY!! Too many to prove the bible is from God. I could go on and on... WWW.ARKDISCOVERY.COM VERY evident, Brother in Arms with cross around Heart, Levi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The *Rod of Aaron/Moses FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The SWORD of Goliath FOUND...SAME GUY!! Too many to prove the bible is from God. I could go on and on... WWW.ARKDISCOVERY.COM VERY evident, Brother in Arms with cross around Heart, Levi. Levi, Ron Wyatt is a discredited, lying, piece of shit, son of a bitch, who has said damn near anything to feed his attention getting whorishness. Man, his *works* and suppositions are some of the worst *science* imaginable, things passed off as *truth*. Before you use Wyatt as ammunition for a discussion here, feel free to recheck your use of Wyatt_as_source before engaging brain and keyboard. Hate to have you run off embarresed before anything serious can be talked about. Only Warning. kevinL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Well, I go to a private Christian school and everyone thinks I'm still a Christian. I'm not on a mission to change the world or anything, but when the opportunity presents itself I try to sow seeds of doubt or get my classmates and teachers to think in new ways. What I do is simply that when a teacher is asking us a question and obviously fishing for a Christian perspective answer I try to answer in the completely opposite way. For example a few days ago my teacher asked us: "Why do you think people watch scary movies, and is it okay for Christians to watch them?" He was expecting someone to say: "Horror movies are part of a corrupt, fallen world in which evil people are attracted to sin and violence instead of God." So I said something like this: "I think the reason people like to watch scary or violent movies might be because in the past we've always had to be alert and we always have used violence to protect ourselves. Now in our modern society we are relatively safe and peaceful in day-to-day interactions but we still don't really feel alive unless we have that kind of excitement in our lives." So yeah, that's what I do. Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The *Rod of Aaron/Moses FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The SWORD of Goliath FOUND...SAME GUY!! Too many to prove the bible is from God. I could go on and on... WWW.ARKDISCOVERY.COM VERY evident, Brother in Arms with cross around Heart, Levi. Even if these things were true (yeah right) they don't prove that the Bible is true and from a god, just that it has some historical elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 Ron Wyatt? What other Christian Urban legends do you believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I agree with everyone else who has suggested that you begin with the bible. I believe the second best stumbling block is to have them explain the multitude of denominations. If they have "one Lord and one faith", then why do they have TENS of thousands of seperate denominations, preaching, teaching and believing different things? Have them try to explain where they've come from and why they are different. Ask them which one is "right" and how can anyone know the "truth"? Learning about church history and bible canon formation is what led me away from Christianity, so I'm partial to these two methods. These are excellent jack hammers to shatter the faith of any HONEST person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInPA Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Ron Wyatt.....hahaha. Here is what other christians say about him: Wyatt Archaeological Research Fraud Documentation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 I agree with everyone else who has suggested that you begin with the bible. I believe the second best stumbling block is to have them explain the multitude of denominations. If they have "one Lord and one faith", then why do they have TENS of thousands of seperate denominations, preaching, teaching and believing different things? Have them try to explain where they've come from and why they are different. Ask them which one is "right" and how can anyone know the "truth"? Learning about church history and bible canon formation is what led me away from Christianity, so I'm partial to these two methods. These are excellent jack hammers to shatter the faith of any HONEST person. Okay, so it's the Bible! I learn so much from this site. You guys all rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The *Rod of Aaron/Moses FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The SWORD of Goliath FOUND...SAME GUY!! Too many to prove the bible is from God. I could go on and on... WWW.ARKDISCOVERY.COM VERY evident, Brother in Arms with cross around Heart, Levi. *COUGH*asphinctersaywshat*SNIFF* Sounds like Ron Wyatt is your new god. I was reading Poonis thread about going to a meeting with Christians to cast doubt. Incidently, Poonis have you gone again? I have told a few Christians why I don't believe in Christianity anymore and they look at me like I have three heads. Now, I understand they are not just going to take my word for it, because who am I? However, I think since many Christians learn how to witness and win "souls" we ex-Christians should at least educate ourselves so we know how to cast doubt to the believer. What would be the best questions could we ask them, or what would be the best things to say to "sow a seed" of doubt? I have yet to go again because the meeting is only once a month, and I still have another 2 weeks before the next one. I will go again. The best way to sow seeds of doubt is not in what is said, but *when* it is said. For example: christianity perpetually needs fresh converts. Pose yourself as the potential convert; then the christian will listen. Trying to inject the seed of knowledge when they are on the defensive is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt Um... would that be the Noah's Ark that had Aluminium fittings? (just a little ahead of it's time, don't you think?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 He could be lying why am I supposed to believe ryans telling the truth. Thanks for at least attempting to answer this though. That don’t prove its from god that just proves the bibles got a few facts. Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The *Rod of Aaron/Moses FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. The SWORD of Goliath FOUND...SAME GUY!! Too many to prove the bible is from God. I could go on and on... WWW.ARKDISCOVERY.COM VERY evident, Brother in Arms with cross around Heart, Levi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Prove the Bible is from God....?? *Noahs Ark. Found in Eastern turkey. By Ron Wyatt Funny! The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. Extremely Funny!!! The *Rod of Aaron/Moses FOUND in jerusalem. By Same guy Ron Wyatt. GWAHAHAHA! OMG!!! The SWORD of Goliath FOUND...SAME GUY!! I'm lauging so hard I can't breathe... Too many to prove the bible is from God. I could go on and on... WWW.ARKDISCOVERY.COM VERY evident, Brother in Arms with cross around Heart, Levi. You're a funny guy Levi! Keep the proofs coming, we need to laugh now and then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 One of my fellow teachers (A driver ed /wrestling coach) started talking about Wyatt's "discoveries" in the teachers' lounge a couple of years back. Good thing I wasn't drinking milk at the time. I left a web address for Christians debunking Wyatt's work on his desk. Until Levi, I hadn't heard Ron Wyatt mentioned in two years. Even most fundies don't bring him up any more. Dude has zero credibility, as even a minor research effort reveals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 One of my fellow teachers (A driver ed /wrestling coach) started talking about Wyatt's "discoveries" in the teachers' lounge a couple of years back. Good thing I wasn't drinking milk at the time. I left a web address for Christians debunking Wyatt's work on his desk. Until Levi, I hadn't heard Ron Wyatt mentioned in two years. Even most fundies don't bring him up any more. Dude has zero credibility, as even a minor research effort reveals. Yeah. Last time I heard about him was from my family when they were visiting 3 years ago. And I was Christian still, and still found it unbelievable and found the sites that discredited Wyatt. I wonder if the Bible Code will be the next thing brought back as a "proof"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Well, I go to a private Christian school and everyone thinks I'm still a Christian. I'm not on a mission to change the world or anything, but when the opportunity presents itself I try to sow seeds of doubt or get my classmates and teachers to think in new ways. What I do is simply that when a teacher is asking us a question and obviously fishing for a Christian perspective answer I try to answer in the completely opposite way. That's excellent, Pariah! I think common sense is the best way to inject a little doubt in a believer's world. When they start going off on dogmatic tangents, just point out the obvious. You might not convince them, but any 'undecideds' listening might have second thoughts about believing their tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 That's excellent, Pariah! I think common sense is the best way to inject a little doubt in a believer's world. When they start going off on dogmatic tangents, just point out the obvious. You might not convince them, but any 'undecideds' listening might have second thoughts about believing their tripe. Thanks. I really just want to let them know that things can be explained without jumping to religious conclusions. That was one thing that helped me lose faith, so I would say that's a good place to start as opposed to directly challenging various parts of their people's beliefs as others have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 What would be the best questions could we ask them, or what would be the best things to say to "sow a seed" of doubt? How about, why are there so many similarities between Jesus and Pagan deities? And why do people have to be tortured in hell for eternity? I mean, even someone like Osama bin Laden who deserves to be tortured for say, a million years. But that's not eternity. Eternity is a million times infinity. Nobody in human history deserves to be tortured for eternity for the most henious crime. And why do people in other countries have to be tortured in hell just for not being Christian? Or, if they're a liberal and think everyone all believes in the same god if they aren't atheist, ask why atheists have to be tortured eternally. Because they are going by what the evidence says, and there is no scientific evidence to believe in the Christian religion. If they use the "Hell is just death and not eternal torture" argument, ask why then do certain people get saved just for being members of one religion, and everyone else just dies, regardless of how they lived their lives? How is that fair, exactly? You could always use the why not be a Muslim then, since their hell is supposedly worse? if they're going to use the "I go to church just in case" argument. And if all else fails, do what I did to my idiotic former cube mate. Hypothesize that there is, indeed, an invisible pink unicorn in the room. Say further that it gave you a magical book, but you have to believe in the unicorn to read the book, and hold out your hands and pretend like you're reading it. Make up random stupid quotes, like if you don't believe in the Holy Unicorn, you will be tortured forever in the freezing pits of Frostiya and pelted to death with extremly sharp icicles, while being taunted by the South Park kids for all of eternity. Or something else that's just as stupid. Get them to realize that believing in the invisible pink unicorn is just as insane, and maybe, just maybe, they'll start to realize why you don't believe in their fairy tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Wonder Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 If they use the "Hell is just death and not eternal torture" argument, The end of Matthew Ch. 25 is good here. Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Doesn't say "death," it says "everlasting punishment," and that's supposed to be Jesus that's saying that, well Jesus according ot Matthew, well, whoever wrote Matthew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The Plates of the *Ten Commandments FOUND in jerusalem. Let's assume for a moment that this would be true, just for fun. These would then be the commandments listed in Ex 34, ordering christians to hate all nonbelievers and to never refuse to give their monster gawd the proper sacrifices it demands. So, fundie boy, how many animals do you sacrifice in an average year, and how many heathens to you kill every day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Thanks. I really just want to let them know that things can be explained without jumping to religious conclusions. That was one thing that helped me lose faith, so I would say that's a good place to start as opposed to directly challenging various parts of their people's beliefs as others have suggested. Yeah, I'm starting to wonder about the value of arguing biblical contradictions and stuff like that. It never convinces them. Basically, you're playing a game of 'Scripture Trivia' with rabid believers. When you counter with real-life reasoning, you're showing them they brought a knife to a gunfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookums Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 However, I think since many Christians learn how to witness and win "souls" we ex-Christians should at least educate ourselves so we know how to cast doubt to the believer. What would be the best questions could we ask them, or what would be the best things to say to "sow a seed" of doubt? Pardon my adding a comment so late in the thread. Ask them why god needs their money? Billions and bilions of $$$$$ and still god wants more - its never enough. Ask if they know where it goes and who gets to spend it. Why is there still staving children ...you'll probably get that answer ....xians believe its for charity. Not true...christianity is the charity.....yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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