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Guest end3

I don't know CDF....that's a good question....to find God in the first place? To develop perserverence? Sorry for your hurt. Have had my fair share. Get's really old after awhile.

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A good question which Christians can't answer and one of the reasons I now reject Christianity as a fallacy!

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**Robotic Glaze Forms Over My Eyes** (Kirk Cameron voice): We live in fallen times.

 

Bwahaha!

 

I think just getting people to understand that life isn't fair and really sucks balls a lot is hard to swallow because who needs truth when there is an afterlife free of this type of agony, right?

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I don't know CDF....that's a good question....to find God in the first place? To develop perserverence? Sorry for your hurt. Have had my fair share. Get's really old after awhile.

It's actually a lot worse to see someone you love to be hurt. And it's 100 times worse when it's your child. You ask God to change places with your kid... but it won't happen.

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Guest Valk0010

I don't know CDF....that's a good question....to find God in the first place? To develop perserverence? Sorry for your hurt. Have had my fair share. Get's really old after awhile.

Or how about, your religion making people worse, I would offer up myself as I have previously in situations like this as a example. 10 years old, fearing hell and enternal damnation for thoughts you for some reason can't control. Praying for god to take it away. Turns out its mental issue's. But I prayed for years to have it taken away, it never happened. If anything, it made it harder to believe in the Christian god then it did to believe in him. It helped to destroy my faith. Building a strong moral character my ass..... Destroy someone to build them back up, that is the essence of abusive personality. Reminds me of the full metal jacket. All loving my nuts.
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I don't know CDF....that's a good question....to find God in the first place?

 

Find god through rape? That's a swell idea isn't it?

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I think it is partly because life sometimes sucks big for all of us. Then we encounter the Bible and its promises and we foolishly believe that the Biblegod answers all our problems. The religion itself then promotes a mindset where we have to give credit to biblegod for all the good, but shoulder all the blame when things get rough.

 

conclusion: Unlike a famous brand of wood preservative, the Bible does not do what it says on the tin.

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That's one of the topics people have debated over for centuries. I don't think anyone has a reasonable answer. It just seems like they end up jumping through hoops or trying to blame it on the idea of 'free will' (since when was it's someone's will to get cancer, etc?)

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Guest Xtech

Where The Birds Always Sing (The Cure)

The world is neither fair nor unfair

The idea is just a way for us to understand

But the world is neither fair nor unfair

So one survives

The others die

And you always want a reason why

 

But the world is neither just nor unjust

It's just us trying to feel that there's some sense in it

No, the world is neither just nor unjust

And though going young

So much undone

Is a tragedy for everyone

 

It doesn't speak a plan or any secret thing

No unseen sign or untold truth in anything...

But living on in others, in memories and dreams

Is not enough

You want everything

Another world where the sun always shines

And the birds always sing

Always sing...

 

The world is neither fair nor unfair

The idea is just a way for us to understand

No the world is neither fair nor unfair

So some survive

And others die

[- From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/c/cure-lyrics/where-the-birds-always-si... -]

And you always want a reason why

 

But the world is neither just nor unjust

It's just us trying to feel that there's some sense in it

No, the world is neither just nor unjust

And though going young

So much undone

Is a tragedy for everyone

 

It doesn't mean there has to be a way of things

No special sense that hidden hands are pulling strings

But living on in others, in memories and dreams

Is not enough

And it never is

You always want so much more than this...

 

An endless sense of soul and an eternity of love

A sweet mother down below and a just father above

For living on in others, in memories and dreams

Is not enough

You want everything

Another world

Where the birds always sing

Another world

Where the sun always shines

Another world

Where nothing ever dies...

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I will never understand how some are able to reconcile their theism with the presence of evil. If God can prevent evil (I'm talking about that which is not caused by humans but still harms them) but chooses not to, he is not benevolent. If he cannot prevent evil, he is not omnipotent. It's as simple as that.

 

Some will say that God's ways are unknowable to the human mind, and that any evil is part of his larger plan, which is ulimately and unequivocally good. Such a justification is, I think, an underestimation of God's capabilities and moral character. If God is perfect and omnipotent, why should he require a convoluted, indirect process by which to positively affect the world? Methods imply limits, which a perfect being would not know. Surely he would be powerful enough to effect change without going about it in an obscure way; he could just will the change and it would be done. Why allow a child to die so their parents can find God in their grief? Shouldn't he be able to just reveal himself to the parents without causing suffering on their part and that of their child? Further, this theological chaos theory (that every evil leads to some good for an unknowable plan) paints God as a rather immoral being for letting the ends justify the means; again, does the parents' ultimate realization of God's existence justify the death of their child and subsequent suffering? Surely there must be another way for God to accomplish his goal. It does not speak highly of God's overall ability or moral bearing.

 

I would also like to point out that to say that all evil is justified under God's plan and thus serves some good is to completely contradict our perception of good vs. evil. If God's ways are inscrutable, we can no longer be certain of what is good and what is evil, and we may not speculate further on God's nature if such simple concepts as good/bad are thrown into disarray. For all we know, God might be a very evil character. There would be no way to tell, since according to Christians, evil is good in all ways because it is in concert with God's plan.

 

Some will also say that we can't judge God according to human standards. Why not? If we are supposedly made in his image, we could reasonably posit that he would have at least a similar sense of morality, and further, if all morality is derived from God, we should be able to say that our own moral intuition is identical to his, since according to Christians, it would not exist were it not for God. Again, I maintain that we are wholly entitled to examine acts attributed to God within the context of human morality, in addition to the reasons I've already stated, because we attach other anthropomorphic qualities to him such as love, desire to create (which a perfect being would not have, I might add), justice, etc. Why should morality be any different, especially if we're going to credit him with inventing to concept? If we may not equate God with a human of at least average moral character, he is wholly inscrutable and further speculation as to his nature is pointless.

 

Christians claim to know God's preference as to our sexual behavior, his desire for worship, and his actions affecting history, but play the "oh, he's unknowable" card when it comes to logical questions or moral dillemas. It's disingenuous and any reasonable person can see that's a cop-out to avoid facing a difficult question and contradiction.

 

 

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I don't know CDF....that's a good question....to find God in the first place? To develop perserverence?

 

I think I would serve god if miracles actually occurred, you know a devout believer prays for a few weeks to be healed of cancer and then no chemo, he's instantly healed, or a paraplegic prays and prays and then a year later he's up and walking again.

 

Hurt doesn't bring me closer to god, it just affirms to me that he doesn't exist. If I had moments of awe inspiring love and miracles then it might be different.

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I will never understand how some are able to reconcile their theism with the presence of evil. If God can prevent evil (I'm talking about that which is not caused by humans but still harms them) but chooses not to, he is not benevolent. If he cannot prevent evil, he is not omnipotent. It's as simple as that.

 

I think evil would prove the existence of a deity if there was any correlation between religious belief and freedom from problems. Take for example the more devout you are the less likely you'll ever develop or acquire any disease, I think if you had a world full of disease free christians and disease ridden heathen then it'd be hard to argue against a deity, but no instead you'll find that being religious has absolutely no effect on your well being. We suffer / are happy the same regardless of god, why is he even needed in the equation?

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Christians, why does your "god" allow some people to be hurt and continually hurt?

He doesn't, because he doesn't exist. But people have always wanted to feel that the world is just and that there's some reason bad things happen. We need to feel there's some sort of moral agency in the world, that our actions have moral repercussions, and that events that happen to us happen for some reason other than blind chance--because if such a thing were true, if it wasn't just chance, then it could be avoided or persuaded to befall some other schmuck. Enter a big sky daddy with the power to keep bad things away just like earth-daddy should.

 

If bad things are just blind chance, then they can't be avoided. If they can't be avoided, then what's the use of having a god?

 

All that said, I hope things are going all right, CDFree. If something bad is happening, I hope you get it resolved as soon as possible.

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I will never understand how some are able to reconcile their theism with the presence of evil. If God can prevent evil (I'm talking about that which is not caused by humans but still harms them) but chooses not to, he is not benevolent. If he cannot prevent evil, he is not omnipotent. It's as simple as that.

 

I think evil would prove the existence of a deity if there was any correlation between religious belief and freedom from problems. Take for example the more devout you are the less likely you'll ever develop or acquire any disease, I think if you had a world full of disease free christians and disease ridden heathen then it'd be hard to argue against a deity, but no instead you'll find that being religious has absolutely no effect on your well being. We suffer / are happy the same regardless of god, why is he even needed in the equation?

 

 

Ironically, this was used as a justification for the persecution of Jews in Europe when the inquisition was in full force. It was better to live with a good coat of christian grim then be too clean and tortured as a secret Jew or Muslim. So when the periodic plague came through the Jews generally survived better because they had higher levels of sanitation in general. Guess what usually got burned after the plague passed.

 

This also led to the common issue of the king denouncing Jews and Moors (North African Muslims) as evil, yet retaining their services as doctors. WendyDoh.gif

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