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Christians! Explain To Me How You Know You Are Saved But Not From The Bible.


JohnnieNaked
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when i was a chistian I found it annoying how some c's thought themselves or their little fundie group saved and the rest damned.

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Good luck getting any responses. I haven't seen the usual suspects around for a few weeks....

 

But the canned response is: "this (cherry picked) scripture says so"

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I would gather faith in Christ is the only hope. I don't know that I am saved other than that.

I remember that's how I saw it too.

 

It's a very interesting question though, consider that many Christians claim that they "know" God exists, and they "know" Jesus was born by a virgin, dead, resurrected, etc, but yet... do anyone of them really know in the same sense if they're saved and will go to Heaven?

 

When I was Christian, it was my biggest fear. I was certain about God's existence, but I wasn't certain about my salvation. I was only hoping that I got it right. And after the things that happened to my family, it wasn't enough anymore to just hope or guess that something was true. I had to be more certain. And part of it, I realized I wasn't certain about God's existence either.

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It was the same with me as Ouroboros. I realized that not only did I not know that I was saved, there was no way I could ever know. It was always a fear for me.

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I think the knowing part is more tied to fundamentalism.....or a new found firm resolve that this is the direction my life needs to take, so therefore it's true.

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I'm sure my FIL would have enjoyed hearing the responses- perhaps he could have found some surety. He announced about a year ago that he had recently gotten saved- after 30 years of living as a xtian. There were quite a few crickets at that dinner table.

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I would gather faith in Christ is the only hope. I don't know that I am saved other than that.

 

Dead guys don't save people.

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When i was a christian the only way i knew is if i felt God and i never felt God so i was always doubting.

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I just tought last night that my faith does not qualify as knowledge. I don't know, for example, that God exists or that Jesus was raised from the death. (Altought, it must be said, it is entirely possible that I know these even if I don't know that I know.) But on the other hand, I don't spend my time worrying wheter or not I am (or someone else is) saved. The idea of God's grace is beautiful, that's all. smile.png

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Guest Valk0010

I just tought last night that my faith does not qualify as knowledge. I don't know, for example, that God exists or that Jesus was raised from the death. (Altought, it must be said, it is entirely possible that I know these even if I don't know that I know.) But on the other hand, I don't spend my time worrying wheter or not I am (or someone else is) saved. The idea of God's grace is beautiful, that's all. smile.png

Yah dirrtty liberalll
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When I was trying to be a good little baptist girl, I heard all these stories from fellow fundie students about how they just knew they were saved because they prayed fervently one night, admitted they were dirty sinners, and then "felt the chains lifting." It was some ephemeral feeling they all claimed to have.

 

Therefore, I spent many sleepless nights praying and trying to get that feeling. Trying to experience something from the bible god that told me where I was going. I got silence. One would think, with something so important at stake (my fucking soul) that an all-powerful being would take, you know, two seconds, and say "oh yeah, you're in." But nothing.

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I just tought last night that my faith does not qualify as knowledge. I don't know, for example, that God exists or that Jesus was raised from the death. (Altought, it must be said, it is entirely possible that I know these even if I don't know that I know.) But on the other hand, I don't spend my time worrying wheter or not I am (or someone else is) saved. The idea of God's grace is beautiful, that's all. smile.png

In what sense, then, do you claim your faith to be "true", especially your faith over any other faith in any other god or savior of mankind? How do you distinguish between your faith and wishful thinking?

 

Would it not be, then, that distinguishing your faith as true in comparison to other faiths requires knowledge enough to accept your faith/beliefs and reject others?

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I just tought last night that my faith does not qualify as knowledge. I don't know, for example, that God exists or that Jesus was raised from the death. (Altought, it must be said, it is entirely possible that I know these even if I don't know that I know.) But on the other hand, I don't spend my time worrying wheter or not I am (or someone else is) saved. The idea of God's grace is beautiful, that's all. smile.png

 

This is very interesting to me. I think that Badger speaks for a great many Christians when he says he "doesn't spend his time worrying..."

 

For some of us, this is an impossibility. I have a very difficult time with "God's grace is beautiful" when at the same time my unsaved friends, heck even the person on the street who I don't even know, are possibly going to hell for eternity. If the Bible said very clearly "Jesus died and everyone is now saved forever" that would be something like I would picture as God's grace being beautiful, but with the understanding of the gospel I have, that isn't the way things are.

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I just tought last night that my faith does not qualify as knowledge. I don't know, for example, that God exists or that Jesus was raised from the death. (Altought, it must be said, it is entirely possible that I know these even if I don't know that I know.) But on the other hand, I don't spend my time worrying wheter or not I am (or someone else is) saved. The idea of God's grace is beautiful, that's all. smile.png

 

ITT: Christians who don't read their Bibles. Badger is far more forgiving, kind, merciful, and gentle than his god is. A pity he's not god. We could use a truly loving, forgiving, and gentle Abrahimic god; the one that exists now is a cruel, abusive, lying rat-bastard. Badger, you up for it? I'd vote you in. And think of all those virgins you'd get--you wouldn't have to settle for just one betrothed!

 

I don't think Christians CAN say they're "saved" in any way other than to use wishful thinking. "I hope so" is about the best we're going to get--Johnnie wants objective proof of salvation, and there hasn't ever been any in the entire history of Christianity. All Christians have is the Bible and their "feelings" that it's true, but if an individual Christian doesn't read his/her Bible and instead relies upon innate morality or sense of mercy/justice/fairness, they get something really different than what the Bible says--as Badger has demonstrated with his modern, completely inconsistent "Buddy Jesus" theology. It's neat that modern Christians are taking the religion in a direction that the Bible's plagiarizers writers and early organizers would never have imagined or condoned, but ultimately one must wonder if rebuilding this Ulysses ship is worth the time it takes when there are so many other, far less immoral ideas competing in the divine marketplace.

 

Even if someone HAD proof, all it'd mean was that God deliberately ignored the cries and pleas of every single ex-C on this forum. Our souls were at stake, but God thought it was far more useful and beneficial to spend his divine mana talking to someone who already believed, rather than someone who was at risk of being tortured forever in the fiery pit he created. So that's even less useful than no proof at all.

 

The problem, of course, is that feelings are mutable and unreliable. I've felt the same sensation of saved-ness in a variety of decidedly non-Christian situations. And people in other religions feel saved, and they can't all be right--by Christianity's standards anyway. Feelings are nice, but ultimately can't always be trusted. And there is absolutely no evidence for Christianity's salvation being real, and a shocking amount that a lot of its other claims are false. In the end, I'll go with feelings related to a religious outlook that isn't actively destroying civilization's progress.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you can't use the bible then it doesn't work. I know because of the song:

"Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so."

 

If the bible didn't say then song is broken and what fun is that to teach to kids?

 

The song says the bible says so. The song can't be wrong.

 

mwc

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The Catholic Church teaches that believers cannot know that they will be saved except by special revelation. I don't know what counts as special revelation, but the usual fundy "I know in my heart" or "God gave me a peace about it" does not count.

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I just tought last night that my faith does not qualify as knowledge. I don't know, for example, that God exists or that Jesus was raised from the death. (Altought, it must be said, it is entirely possible that I know these even if I don't know that I know.) But on the other hand, I don't spend my time worrying wheter or not I am (or someone else is) saved. The idea of God's grace is beautiful, that's all. smile.png

 

So you don't know that you might know that you know?

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The Catholic Church teaches that believers cannot know that they will be saved except by special revelation. I don't know what counts as special revelation, but the usual fundy "I know in my heart" or "God gave me a peace about it" does not count.

I'd never heard that, but admittedly I stopped being Catholic around middle school ;) If so, then it's hideous that he'd be wasting his time giving Catholics warm fuzzies about their salvation when the Church's anti-woman and anti-sex policies are directly responsible for the misery of millions suffering due to disease and overpopulation.

 

When I hear a Christian saying God talked to him, all I see are starving children.

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I would gather faith in Christ is the only hope. I don't know that I am saved other than that.

You mean you have no proof? You spend your life worshiping and serving a god based on a gut feeling? The Christians I know aren't this honest. If you have no reason to follow Jesus other than faith, you need to rethink this. Have you never looked at the lack of scientific evidence for Christianity?

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