Matthew 7, V. 7-12.....ask, Seek, Knock

[Guest end3]

Here's an analogy to go with my OP.......Halloween. Children dress up as "evil" and demand candy.....or evil will be perpitrated on the relationship. To put this in adult terms.....it's very much like selfishness within a relationship....you give me what I want or I shall piss on you as Spectrox demonstrates. So, the point being, what children brought candy to the door.......what if adults brought the golden rule to the law? Same concept, but in adult terms and Biblical verses.

 

So again, when we are young, or in a fundamental stage, we go demanding in selfishness.......you do my religion my way "because I know". And then at some point, we change positions because it fosters joy, or brings/manifests "God" within those relationships.

 

So what I am hearing is within most everyone's fundamental stage, there was never any answers to go with the selfishness of fundamental belief? So then the stance is, well, I will do this myself.

 

What am I missing?

[midniterider]

To the question at hand....I feel as though I have had one peak/large God experience.....take that however you wish..... It was so good I thought to myself days afterward that it matched nothing. Also thought to myself that I could be in that forever it was that good. Chalk it up to whatever you wish. And I was like everyone else, if it's like church, no thanks.

 

You've devoted yourself to an endorphin rush.

 

Do they sell that? Another thing that occurs to me. Why do we figure that if we understand a process, that somehow this negates God?

 

Why do we assume that god is real?

[midniterider]

Here's an analogy to go with my OP.......Halloween. Children dress up as "evil" and demand candy.....or evil will be perpitrated on the relationship. To put this in adult terms.....it's very much like selfishness within a relationship

 

Biblegod demands we believe in him or evil will be perpetrated on the relationship. He will send us to hell. Right? It's very selfish of him. Though biblegod's evil is called righteousness. Eternal torture is eternal torture whether we call it evil or righteousness.

[Guest end3]

Here's an analogy to go with my OP.......Halloween. Children dress up as "evil" and demand candy.....or evil will be perpitrated on the relationship. To put this in adult terms.....it's very much like selfishness within a relationship

 

Biblegod demands we believe in him or evil will be perpetrated on the relationship. He will send us to hell. Right? It's very selfish of him. Though biblegod's evil is called righteousness. Eternal torture is eternal torture whether we call it evil or righteousness.

 

Unfortunately this goes back to the Adam and Eve debate where God espouses, "don't do that". I would argue that the choice of good is life giving, life affirming where the choice of evil means death.and separation. Just saying this is the "take home" message I get out of the book...

[Spectrox]

Here's an analogy to go with my OP.......Halloween. Children dress up as "evil" and demand candy.....or evil will be perpitrated on the relationship. To put this in adult terms.....it's very much like selfishness within a relationship....you give me what I want or I shall piss on you as Spectrox demonstrates. So, the point being, what children brought candy to the door.......what if adults brought the golden rule to the law? Same concept, but in adult terms and Biblical verses.

 

So again, when we are young, or in a fundamental stage, we go demanding in selfishness.......you do my religion my way "because I know". And then at some point, we change positions because it fosters joy, or brings/manifests "God" within those relationships.

 

So what I am hearing is within most everyone's fundamental stage, there was never any answers to go with the selfishness of fundamental belief? So then the stance is, well, I will do this myself.

 

What am I missing?

 

Aww. Is the poor widdle Chwistian all upset cos his assumptions are being challenged?

 

I haven't pissed on anyone. I've taken the piss out of your arguments (or lack of them). It might help if you actually gave a straight answer to a straight question. At least once would be nice.

 

I'll leave the baseless threats to the Bible and those who fawn over it. I don't need to make threats. I can demolish your arguments with simple banter.

 

I am the King of banter. I am banter's patron saint.

 

In fact I am the Archbishop of Banterbury.

[Guest end3]

Aww. Is the poor widdle Chwistian all upset cos his assumptions are being challenged?

I didn't think I was upset at all Spec. Speak to the analogy if you so Captian Banterbury. Really, what is it you want to know. As I said, you are in a state of always learning, which implies fundamentalism. So really, I don't know how you can conclude much at your pace. Make your own choices.....believe, don't believe, rant, rave......have at it.

 

And just so you know, you made me cry...

[ufred7]

When I was religious I believed that scripture was sacred and somehow transcendent. After much study and consideration, I have come to believe that people whom religions were formed around simply found ways to live life in an exceptional way. Most teachings that eventually came to be regarded as sacred, holy scripture began as advice to help people physically or psychologically.These people's words and lives were often put into mythical language and people began to believe that these people were gods.

 

The doctrine of not eating certain types of foods originally had more to do with avoiding disease than anything "spiritual."

Nearly all of us have had the experience of something working out when we put our minds (and bodies) to it. I wanted to play music professionally all my childhood. I fixed my mind on it and it eventually happened.

 

I personally believe that the asking and seeking teaching has, and originally had more to do with putting your mind to something and committing to it completely than expecting some spirit to do it for you. It was the followers who made their teachers into demigods that gave this and other "scriptural" teachings their superstitious and mythological meanings.

[Guest end3]

When I was religious I believed that scripture was sacred and somehow transcendent. After much study and consideration, I have come to believe that people whom religions were formed around simply found ways to live life in an exceptional way. Most teachings that eventually came to be regarded as sacred, holy scripture began as advice to help people physically or psychologically.These people's words and lives were often put into mythical language and people began to believe that these people were gods.

 

The doctrine of not eating certain types of foods originally had more to do with avoiding disease than anything "spiritual."

Nearly all of us have had the experience of something working out when we put our minds (and bodies) to it. I wanted to play music professionally all my childhood. I fixed my mind on it and it eventually happened.

 

I personally believe that the asking and seeking teaching has, and originally had more to do with putting your mind to something and committing to it completely than expecting some spirit to do it for you. It was the followers who made their teachers into demigods that gave this and other "scriptural" teachings their superstitious and mythological meanings.

 

Kind of leaning that way myself these days Ufred. Thank you for the post.

[mcdaddy]

 

 

 

Why should I believe in a superstitious collection of old Jewish folk tales for which there is no good evidence?

Because if it's true you have eternal life???

 

 

Why would I want that?

 

I was always under the impression you got eternal life either way- eternal life in heaven or eternal life in hell. But I guess that's nitpicking.

 

So any religion that promises eternal life should instantly be believed in, for no other reason than if its right, you'll get eternal life? So basically I should affirm every and all religions concurrently to be sure I pledged allegiance to the right god, correct? Gotta keep those bases covered in case Vishnu is real.

[Spectrox]

Aww. Is the poor widdle Chwistian all upset cos his assumptions are being challenged?

I didn't think I was upset at all Spec. Speak to the analogy if you so Captian Banterbury. Really, what is it you want to know. As I said, you are in a state of always learning, which implies fundamentalism. So really, I don't know how you can conclude much at your pace. Make your own choices.....believe, don't believe, rant, rave......have at it.

 

And just so you know, you made me cry...

Clearly my joke was lost on you - xians aren't renowned for their lighter side. But wait - was that sarcasm I detected at the end? My intention is not to make you cry but get you to be clear about what it is you are advocating. What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Have you read all the bible in detail? Are you happy with it morally and from a believability standpoint? Fundamentalism has 2 meanings as far as I am aware - either a foundation of belief or as strict obedience to dogma. Not sure where your ramblings are taking this thread. Your signature says you are an authentic Xian believer. In Mark 16 Jesus says that the signs that accompany a true believer are the ability to heal sick people by laying hands on them and being able to drink deadly poison and live to tell the tale. Done any of these lately?

[Guest end3]

Aww. Is the poor widdle Chwistian all upset cos his assumptions are being challenged?

I didn't think I was upset at all Spec. Speak to the analogy if you so Captian Banterbury. Really, what is it you want to know. As I said, you are in a state of always learning, which implies fundamentalism. So really, I don't know how you can conclude much at your pace. Make your own choices.....believe, don't believe, rant, rave......have at it.

 

And just so you know, you made me cry...

Clearly my joke was lost on you - xians aren't renowned for their lighter side. But wait - was that sarcasm I detected at the end? My intention is not to make you cry but get you to be clear about what it is you are advocating. What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Have you read all the bible in detail? Are you happy with it morally and from a believability standpoint? Fundamentalism has 2 meanings as far as I am aware - either a foundation of belief or as strict obedience to dogma. Not sure where your ramblings are taking this thread. Your signature says you are an authentic Xian believer. In Mark 16 Jesus says that the signs that accompany a true believer are the ability to heal sick people by laying hands on them and being able to drink deadly poison and live to tell the tale. Done any of these lately?

 

I don't mind visiting Spectrox, but I don't think you are really interested in my view(s). You seem rather set in your stance. Even if we had potential common ground, I doubt you would admit to it. If I am wrong, I will be glad to visit.

 

Just so you know I am sincere. I think it would be foolish, the last verse you mention, these days to view that literally.....matter of fact some guy in the US died the other day after letting a snake bite him in a religious service. I don't know if the apostles had miraculous gifts...maybe.

 

But a hug will go a long way to heal a spiritually sick person, and the Bible often refers to the cup that Christ accepts.....so words and actions can be poison as well. And our choice to sacrifice ourselves to the "poison" so that others might benefit is certainly a worthy cause.

[Spectrox]

Aww. Is the poor widdle Chwistian all upset cos his assumptions are being challenged?

I didn't think I was upset at all Spec. Speak to the analogy if you so Captian Banterbury. Really, what is it you want to know. As I said, you are in a state of always learning, which implies fundamentalism. So really, I don't know how you can conclude much at your pace. Make your own choices.....believe, don't believe, rant, rave......have at it.

 

And just so you know, you made me cry...

Clearly my joke was lost on you - xians aren't renowned for their lighter side. But wait - was that sarcasm I detected at the end? My intention is not to make you cry but get you to be clear about what it is you are advocating. What do you believe? Why do you believe it? Have you read all the bible in detail? Are you happy with it morally and from a believability standpoint? Fundamentalism has 2 meanings as far as I am aware - either a foundation of belief or as strict obedience to dogma. Not sure where your ramblings are taking this thread. Your signature says you are an authentic Xian believer. In Mark 16 Jesus says that the signs that accompany a true believer are the ability to heal sick people by laying hands on them and being able to drink deadly poison and live to tell the tale. Done any of these lately?

 

I don't mind visiting Spectrox, but I don't think you are really interested in my view(s). You seem rather set in your stance. Even if we had potential common ground, I doubt you would admit to it. If I am wrong, I will be glad to visit.

 

Just so you know I am sincere. I think it would be foolish, the last verse you mention, these days to view that literally.....matter of fact some guy in the US died the other day after letting a snake bite him in a religious service. I don't know if the apostles had miraculous gifts...maybe.

 

But a hug will go a long way to heal a spiritually sick person, and the Bible often refers to the cup that Christ accepts.....so words and actions can be poison as well. And our choice to sacrifice ourselves to the "poison" so that others might benefit is certainly a worthy cause.

We do have common ground afterall. We both cherry-pick the Bible! It's just that we differ in how honestly or selectively we do it or how pretentiously we go about it. I don't recognise this huggy touchy-feely god you are talking about. Maybe we are not reading the same book afterall. My version has a disclaimer at the front. It says: "the characters portrayed in this book are fictional. Any resemblance to real persons living or dead is purely coincidental."

[bornagainathiest]

Mat 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Mat 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Mat 7:9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

Mat 7:10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?

Mat 7:11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Mat 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

So which version of the Bible is this quoted from End?

 

BAA.

[Guest end3]

Mat 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Mat 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Mat 7:9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

Mat 7:10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?

Mat 7:11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Mat 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

So which version of the Bible is this quoted from End?

 

BAA.

 

NIV. And that, if I get where you are going, is a good point. I have yet to look up many of these words to see if there could be a logically different meaning....which happens often IMO.

[bornagainathiest]

Mat 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Mat 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Mat 7:9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

Mat 7:10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?

Mat 7:11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Mat 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

 

So which version of the Bible is this quoted from End?

 

BAA.

 

NIV. And that, if I get where you are going, is a good point. I have yet to look up many of these words to see if there could be a logically different meaning....which happens often IMO.

 

Uh... actually I'm not going where you think with this End.

I simply wanted to see if you would answer a straight question that was put to you.

You did. No evasions. No dodging. No ignoring me.

Thank you for doing so.

 

Now I'd like to ask you the same question I put to you earlier - the one you didn't answer.

I'd like to see if you only answer those questions that suit you and not the ones that put the arrogance of your Christian beliefs under the spotlight, for all to see. I'd like to see if you have the integrity to fess up and freely admit that it's arrogant to believe that the universe revolves around the followers of Jesus Christ.

 

Here it is again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So... just who is the arrogant one here?

 

The one who asserts that the entire universe was created specifically and only for the benefit of humans?

The one who asserts that the entire universe was created only so that humans could make just one decision?

The one who asserts that the entire universe will be trashed when the allotted decision-making time is up?

The one who asserts that another, better, new universe will be created only for those making the right decision?

 

The one who places humans squarely in the center of the entire universe?

The one who reckons that humans are the pinnacle of all creation?

The one who thinks of humans as the one and only reason the entire universe exists at all?

The one who believes that everything and anything revolves solely around the human race?

The one who maintains that nothing else has the right to exist in of itself, but everything owes it's existence only to us?

 

 

So who's the arrogant one here, End?

 

BAA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please answer as quickly and as clearly as you did with my question about the Matthew 7 quote.

 

BAA.

[Antlerman]

To the question at hand....I feel as though I have had one peak/large God experience.....take that however you wish..... It was so good I thought to myself days afterward that it matched nothing. Also thought to myself that I could be in that forever it was that good. Chalk it up to whatever you wish. And I was like everyone else, if it's like church, no thanks.

I've had a couple of those experiences, both as a Christian and... as an atheist. I experienced it, quite strongly actually, about 6 months after I lost my faith in Christianity. It was just as strong, and lasted for a very long time afterwards. I felt a complete unity with the Universe and Existence (uppercase intentional to highlight them as proper nouns, i.e. tokens that replace the concept of God as an independent being). We are all part of It. Not separate. It (God) is part of us and we're part of It. That's what I know from my experience. Silly books with myths and legends from 2,000 years ago won't change my experience. If you want to show that your God is independent from this world and Universe, then you have to show that. My "God" is All that is Here, right now.

Since we can't +1 a moderator's post, I'll just reply: AMEN. Yes, indeed.

 

The underlying point I try to make so often is that these sorts of experiences are very common. They are not about a belief system. They are about something within us, that to use a word for it, is transcendent. All myths of God are simply means to try to put a face to it, or as a vehicle to find it within ourselves.

 

I want to share something I read recently referencing this verse in the Gospel of Thomas, verse 70:

 

"If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you."

 

If verses like these were left in the Bible rather than stripped bare out of it by those like Irenaeus and Athanasius to favor instead a salvation based on belief, instead of accessing this in ourselves, I may have found no reason to have left that religion. Instead, they chose to dumb it down and make it simple for converts, "just believe, and keep believing". No work. No hard work of finding that within, which you describe.

 

I'll share here, that like you I too have had these profound "Oneness' experiences that radically changed my life. In beginning to practice meditation around 8 months ago, I found that in fact these experiences are repeatable. In fact, every time I do so now, this is what is accessed and opened to in myself. And my point of sharing this is to tie to what End3 quoted at the outset of this thread. This is definitely going to sound like a fish swimming upstream in this thread, but here it goes....

 

The 'seek and you shall find" verse, actually became an "ah ha!" moment of realization for me within an early practice of meditation. It is not at all about seeking something to get, or possess for yourself as in "I want this for me". It is to do as the Buddha said, to seek enlightenment as if seeking a river with your hair on fire. It is to abandon yourself to it, for its sake. You seek to become Love, not to posses it. You seek to be That, for its sake, for its Beauty, beyond you. You wish it to become you, and you become it. You place it as the single object to know and become for its sake, not for yours. Then, indeed, you find it. It is the simplist, and the hardest thing to do. You have to abandon any personal desire and focus for self-gain to it. You essentially die to you. If instead you seek "I want!", the focus is on you, not it. With the focus on you, you see you, not it. And it finding it, you find you, your true you.

 

I'll leave it at that and see what feathers may fly here....

[Guest end3]

To the question at hand....I feel as though I have had one peak/large God experience.....take that however you wish..... It was so good I thought to myself days afterward that it matched nothing. Also thought to myself that I could be in that forever it was that good. Chalk it up to whatever you wish. And I was like everyone else, if it's like church, no thanks.

I've had a couple of those experiences, both as a Christian and... as an atheist. I experienced it, quite strongly actually, about 6 months after I lost my faith in Christianity. It was just as strong, and lasted for a very long time afterwards. I felt a complete unity with the Universe and Existence (uppercase intentional to highlight them as proper nouns, i.e. tokens that replace the concept of God as an independent being). We are all part of It. Not separate. It (God) is part of us and we're part of It. That's what I know from my experience. Silly books with myths and legends from 2,000 years ago won't change my experience. If you want to show that your God is independent from this world and Universe, then you have to show that. My "God" is All that is Here, right now.

Since we can't +1 a moderator's post, I'll just reply: AMEN. Yes, indeed.

 

The underlying point I try to make so often is that these sorts of experiences are very common. They are not about a belief system. They are about something within us, that to use a word for it, is transcendent. All myths of God are simply means to try to put a face to it, or as a vehicle to find it within ourselves.

 

I want to share something I read recently referencing this verse in the Gospel of Thomas, verse 70:

 

 

"If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you."

 

If verses like these were left in the Bible rather than stripped bare out of it by those like Irenaeus and Athanasius to favor instead a salvation based on belief, instead of accessing this in ourselves, I may have found no reason to have left that religion. Instead, they chose to dumb it down and make it simple for converts, "just believe, and keep believing". No work. No hard work of finding that within, which you describe.

 

I'll share here, that like you I too have had these profound "Oneness' experiences that radically changed my life. In beginning to practice meditation around 8 months ago, I found that in fact these experiences are repeatable. In fact, every time I do so now, this is what is accessed and opened to in myself. And my point of sharing this is to tie to what End3 quoted at the outset of this thread. This is definitely going to sound like a fish swimming upstream in this thread, but here it goes....

 

The 'seek and you shall find" verse, actually became an "ah ha!" moment of realization for me within an early practice of meditation. It is not at all about seeking something to get, or possess for yourself as in "I want this for me". It is to do as the Buddha said, to seek enlightenment as if seeking a river with your hair on fire. It is to abandon yourself to it, for its sake. You seek to become Love, not to posses it. You seek to be That, for its sake, for its Beauty, beyond you. You wish it to become you, and you become it. You place it as the single object to know and become for its sake, not for yours. Then, indeed, you find it. It is the simplist, and the hardest thing to do. You have to abandon any personal desire and focus for self-gain to it. You essentially die to you. If instead you seek "I want!", the focus is on you, not it. With the focus on you, you see you, not it. And it finding it, you find you, your true you.

 

I'll leave it at that and see what feathers may fly here....

 

I don't see any need for feathers. Here's the deal. I respect you both, I hope both of you realize that. But here's the thing with Christianity......and I see y'all point more and more, but again, here's the thing. Within the ingrained enlightenment message, I can't deny two things. One is that outside of the enlightenment message is a cause message included. I don't see a cause message tied to any other enlightenment messsages/methodologies. And number two is experience.

 

As I was saying, and have said in past threads, that the experience I had was specific to Jesus. Essentially a message of if I hurt others, I am also hurting him. One can also imply oneness from this same statement. So in short, folks, I can't, and I won't deny Christianity. It's a mechanism that has literally given me if nothing more, a mechanism for change, for life.

 

With that said, certainly what you say about becoming is a the maturity of the process......thankfully and joyfully.

[Guest end3]

The one who asserts that the entire universe was created specifically and only for the benefit of humans?

I'll be brief BAA. I don't see any other competing life forms matching humanity....maybe insects.

The one who asserts that the entire universe was created only so that humans could make just one decision?

The life decision seems paramount for all of us.

The one who asserts that the entire universe will be trashed when the allotted decision-making time is up?

Science says our galaxy will collide with another head on in about 4 billion years....so boom anyhow, right?

The one who asserts that another, better, new universe will be created only for those making the right decision?

Literal or figurative, it's a win, win.

 

The one who places humans squarely in the center of the entire universe?

The one who reckons that humans are the pinnacle of all creation?

The one who thinks of humans as the one and only reason the entire universe exists at all?

The one who believes that everything and anything revolves solely around the human race?

The one who maintains that nothing else has the right to exist in of itself, but everything owes it's existence only to us?

The Bible talks about other life forms that we know little about....angels, et al. What makes you think man is all.

 

 

So who's the arrogant one here, End?

That asshole Spec. He knows he knows everything.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

[bdp]

Angels? Life forms??! Jesus fuck...

[Antlerman]

One is that outside of the enlightenment message is a cause message included. I don't see a cause message tied to any other enlightenment messsages/methodologies.

I'm not sure why you say this. Of course there is a cause. It is to connect with that cause and realize it in ourselves. We are That.

 

And number two is experience.

 

As I was saying, and have said in past threads, that the experience I had was specific to Jesus.

And so....? This does not shock or surprise me, nor does it upset or disturb in any manner. In fact, I fully get it. That you experienced that is in fact the same thing I experience, just the form it takes for you. I too may experience the same thing. The difference is I understand it is the face that we put upon that 'light to great to bear'. It may take other forms for you at other times, as it does for others. It's still the same thing though. Don't get too hung up on how it manifests itself. See beyond it... see to what it is within you.

 

Essentially a message of if I hurt others, I am also hurting him.

That was a first step in you coming face to face with something deep within yourself. Keep looking in there.

 

One can also imply oneness from this same statement. So in short, folks, I can't, and I won't deny Christianity. It's a mechanism that has literally given me if nothing more, a mechanism for change, for life.

I wouldn't ask you to give up what works for you. The only thing I would hope for is you gain wisdom and insight enough to see us all standing there right there as equals. God is known in many forms. It doesn't even have to be in the form a god. It can be in the infinite night sky, the clouds, the wind, the air in your lungs and the light on your face. Don't blind yourself through religion putting it into a box. That is the only wish I hope for you to see and to embrace.

[Spectrox]

End wrote: I'll be brief BAA. I don't see any other competing life forms matching humanity....maybe insects.

Define your terms for "matching". Humans are more complex than other species but the most successful from a scientific standpoint are bacteria. We are intelligent primates, that's all. Although reading some Xian comments on this site, I frequently have my doubts.

 

 

End wrote:Science says our galaxy will collide with another head on in about 4 billion years....so boom anyhow, right?

Jesus believed that the end of the world was within the lifetime of his disciples (Matthew 16).

 

End wrote:Literal or figurative, it's a win, win.

Actually it's a massive Pascal's Wager fail.

 

End wrote:The Bible talks about other life forms that we know little about....angels, et al. What makes you think man is all.

Have you seen an angel? Was it chatty at all?

 

End wrote:That asshole Spec. He knows he knows everything.

Not true. I'm a big fan of saying "I don't know" when I really don't know. You are the one with all the assumptions. You are the one who gives cryptic answers when a straight one would do.

 

Also, you calling me an asshole is direct verbal abuse which is a rules violation. I admit I have been provocative - but generally I have attacked or ridiculed your arguments or lack of them. I have not resorted to direct name-calling profanity because I don't know you personally, I can only go on what you write. I'm not sure that an authentic Xian believer would behave the way you are behaving. You're supposed to turn the other cheek are you not? Which makes me think you aren't a genuine Xian at all but a troll. Isn't it a bit lonely under that bridge waiting for the 3 Billy Goats Gruff?

[Legion]

When I was religious I believed that scripture was sacred and somehow transcendent. After much study and consideration, I have come to believe that people whom religions were formed around simply found ways to live life in an exceptional way. Most teachings that eventually came to be regarded as sacred, holy scripture began as advice to help people physically or psychologically.These people's words and lives were often put into mythical language and people began to believe that these people were gods.

 

The doctrine of not eating certain types of foods originally had more to do with avoiding disease than anything "spiritual."

Nearly all of us have had the experience of something working out when we put our minds (and bodies) to it. I wanted to play music professionally all my childhood. I fixed my mind on it and it eventually happened.

 

I personally believe that the asking and seeking teaching has, and originally had more to do with putting your mind to something and committing to it completely than expecting some spirit to do it for you. It was the followers who made their teachers into demigods that gave this and other "scriptural" teachings their superstitious and mythological meanings.

 

This was an excellent post in my opinion Ufred.

 

And welcome to ex-C.

[Antlerman]

Also, you calling me an asshole is direct verbal abuse which is a rules violation. I admit I have been provocative

It's not a rules violation for the Lion's Den. "Expect heated responses". Where I as a mod get upset is when members do stuff like that when it's unprovoked. In other words bullying based on personality differences, then it's an abuse of the lax rule structures here for some personal axe to grind.

 

I'm not sure that an authentic Xian believer would behave the way you are behaving.

Regarding the Authentic Christian Believer thingy End3 has: that is not something he calls himself, or chose to add to his account. All Christians on the site have that. It is something that came from a Christian site they used for themselves, which we use to make it clear which members are Christian.

 

I know End, and frankly I think a True Christian Heretic label, would much better suit him.

[Legion]

I know End, and frankly I think a Heretic label, would much better suit him.

 

I think that would be more accurate too.

[Legion]

A little on topic music....