Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Annoying Christian Thought


antix

Recommended Posts

Looking at what's happened in this thread recently, I'd like to sum up the perceived problem - let's see if we can get it dealt with then. ;)

 

There are verses in the book that imply unconditional love. There are other verses in the same book stating the exact opposite. The question antix would have to answer here is "do you see all of the book as 100 % binding and literally true or not, and if not, which parts do you consider relevant?".

 

And I guess quite a few people would also like to know antix's reasons for answering the way he'll (hopefully ;) ) do.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at what's happened in this thread recently, I'd like to sum up the perceived problem - let's see if we can get it dealt with then. wink.png

 

There are verses in the book that imply unconditional love. There are other verses in the same book stating the exact opposite. The question antix would have to answer here is "do you see all of the book as 100 % binding and literally true or not, and if not, which parts do you consider relevant?".

 

And I guess quite a few people would also like to know antix's reasons for answering the way he'll (hopefully wink.png ) do.

 

While I consider it true, the nasty shit is in the old testament, which (to me at least) is no longer binding. The old testament is a history book with some things that are odd and if you want to know I will say a couple things

 

1) Noah did the nasty with his daughters WTF

2) Job, who would let someone screw with their child like that to prove a point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Antix, if everything in the OT is bullshit fairy tales...then isn't the NT necessarily also bullshit fairy tales? The New is based on the Old.

 

It's impossible to treat the NT as valid while acting like the old is irrelevant.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at what's happened in this thread recently, I'd like to sum up the perceived problem - let's see if we can get it dealt with then. wink.png

 

There are verses in the book that imply unconditional love. There are other verses in the same book stating the exact opposite. The question antix would have to answer here is "do you see all of the book as 100 % binding and literally true or not, and if not, which parts do you consider relevant?".

 

And I guess quite a few people would also like to know antix's reasons for answering the way he'll (hopefully wink.png ) do.

 

While I consider it true, the nasty shit is in the old testament, which (to me at least) is no longer binding. The old testament is a history book with some things that are odd and if you want to know I will say a couple things

 

1) Noah did the nasty with his daughters WTF

2) Job, who would let someone screw with their child like that to prove a point?

 

That certainly makes for a cleaner, less cruel 'theology.

 

But you know full well that the old testament is talking about the same 'god' as the new. And you know the verse: "I am the same yesterday, today, and forever".

 

Here is a list of bible verses where Jesus makes it crystal clear that old testament law is binding and always will be:

 

http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm

 

And let's not forget the book of revelations- plenty of nasty and cruel shit in that new testament book. On par with Ezekiel.

 

 

Looks to me like you're just picking and choosing what you like. And I reckon that's your prerogative. But I see (and you've presented) ZERO support for the notion that the christian god has "unconditional love". In fact it appears to be nothing BUT conditional if the bible and mainstream christian theology are to be believed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, and the biggie....THE OT IS NOT HISTORY.

 

a basic cursory review of ACTUAL historical findings pretty much invalidates everything in the OT. That's just basic fact. There was no exodus. Even the "kingdom of Israel" was nothing to write home about. The bible is NOT a history book, not in te least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shit: I am starting to have questions now on unconditional love. One major one: God does not answer prayers (and I mean non selfish ones) , unconditional love would mean he would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shit: I am starting to have questions now on unconditional love. One major one: God does not answer prayers (and I mean non selfish ones) , unconditional love would mean he would.

 

There are no such restrictions on prayer. "Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it." In practice, we all know how that works out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bigger question here is, why are we wasting our time with this troll?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You should have questions about a lot of things.

 

The god of the bible is not all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful, or all-merciful.

 

Each of those can be backed up by verse if you'd like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shit: I am starting to have questions now on unconditional love. One major one: God does not answer prayers (and I mean non selfish ones) , unconditional love would mean he would.

 

There are no such restrictions on prayer. "Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it." In practice, we all know how that works out.

 

Not trolling, I give you my word on that. As for the prayer comment, it does not work out. I do not expect God to honor a request for a materialistic want, but I would expect him to honor a request to make someone better health wise etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My vote is to transfer this thread to the Den. Anyone with me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haha. Yep. Time to break out the claws.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shit: I am starting to have questions now on unconditional love. One major one: God does not answer prayers (and I mean non selfish ones) , unconditional love would mean he would.

 

There are no such restrictions on prayer. "Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it." In practice, we all know how that works out.

 

Not trolling, I give you my word on that. As for the prayer comment, it does not work out. I do not expect God to honor a request for a materialistic want, but I would expect him to honor a request to make someone better health wise etc.

 

Does every sick person that's prayed for in the name of Jesus get better?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shit: I am starting to have questions now on unconditional love. One major one: God does not answer prayers (and I mean non selfish ones) , unconditional love would mean he would.

 

There are no such restrictions on prayer. "Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it." In practice, we all know how that works out.

 

Not trolling, I give you my word on that. As for the prayer comment, it does not work out. I do not expect God to honor a request for a materialistic want, but I would expect him to honor a request to make someone better health wise etc.

 

Does every sick person that's prayed for in the name of Jesus get better?

 

Do any? If you pray and someone gets better, that could be chance and even terminal illnesses have a slight chance of reversal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly my point.

 

There have been real clinical studies done that show that the efficacy of praying over the sick versus not praying, is zilch.

 

Actually the patients who were prayed over did statistically worse.

 

Prayers are not answered. Things happen, and if you prayed for it to happen, and it happens, it's a coincidence, nothing more.

 

The eyes of the blind aren't opened with spit and mud.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly my point.

 

There have been real clinical studies done that show that the efficacy of praying over the sick versus not praying, is zilch.

 

Actually the patients who were prayed over did statistically worse.

 

Prayers are not answered. Things happen, and if you prayed for it to happen, and it happens, it's a coincidence, nothing more.

 

The eyes of the blind aren't opened with spit and mud.

 

I prayed hard with 2 different aunts dying and the results were a big zero. My father recently passed away and again, the prayers were not answered and my asshole aunt told me "don't be sad, you need to celebrate, your dad is in heaven" That was the beginning of me questioning some things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saying something I don't believe is not trolling. Nor are honest answers a problem to me, including I don't know. There are Christians who believe Hell is a modern invention - it's something that to a large degree was a creation of revival preachers. Jews don't believe in Hell - so all those OT verses about it don't really say so much as they seem to - and there's a fair bit that supports the notion that "hell" is merely separation from god, IOW, death.

 

I totally agree about the inhumanity of the notion of Hell - but it's not something all Christians believe. I think a good biblical case can be made both ways - for a literal Hell, and for none. Not to mention those who put out the notion - again, with some biblical basis (because the Bible is so contradictory and long that you can make a case for anything from it if you are selective enough), that Hell only happens if you choose to go there after death, after seeing God.

 

I'm an atheist - but berating and namecalling honest simple beliefs doesn't do anything positive, IMO.

 

And I think there's room for discussion about the ridiculous extremes of Christianity that even many other Christians think are ridiculous. Personally I don't care if someone has a belief in this myth of theirs, so long as they'll act as a decent person, and not try to make laws to make me obey the commands of their myth. There's horrible crappy Christians - and there are good ones - I believe they're following a myth, a bunch of ancient lies that are often used for evil purposes - but so long as they're good people and it's their choice, I'm fine with that. My grandpa was a Christian - who risked his life and health as an old man, for a young scared gay guy he had every reason to dislike (participating in some antisocial behaviors in his neighborhood). He was a real Christian - and he never expected us to go to church, he never pushed or preached, he simply believed. If it's not hurting me, I'm not going to attack someone for believing - that's their territory.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saying something I don't believe is not trolling. Nor are honest answers a problem to me, including I don't know. There are Christians who believe Hell is a modern invention - it's something that to a large degree was a creation of revival preachers. Jews don't believe in Hell - so all those OT verses about it don't really say so much as they seem to - and there's a fair bit that supports the notion that "hell" is merely separation from god, IOW, death.

 

I totally agree about the inhumanity of the notion of Hell - but it's not something all Christians believe. I think a good biblical case can be made both ways - for a literal Hell, and for none. Not to mention those who put out the notion - again, with some biblical basis (because the Bible is so contradictory and long that you can make a case for anything from it if you are selective enough), that Hell only happens if you choose to go there after death, after seeing God.

 

I'm an atheist - but berating and namecalling honest simple beliefs doesn't do anything positive, IMO.

 

And I think there's room for discussion about the ridiculous extremes of Christianity that even many other Christians think are ridiculous. Personally I don't care if someone has a belief in this myth of theirs, so long as they'll act as a decent person, and not try to make laws to make me obey the commands of their myth. There's horrible crappy Christians - and there are good ones - I believe they're following a myth, a bunch of ancient lies that are often used for evil purposes - but so long as they're good people and it's their choice, I'm fine with that. My grandpa was a Christian - who risked his life and health as an old man, for a young scared gay guy he had every reason to dislike (participating in some antisocial behaviors in his neighborhood). He was a real Christian - and he never expected us to go to church, he never pushed or preached, he simply believed. If it's not hurting me, I'm not going to attack someone for believing - that's their territory.

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saying something I don't believe is not trolling.

 

Since you say yourself that you never believed and you aren't an ex-christian I can't expect you to understand why this thread is trolling.

 

I totally agree about the inhumanity of the notion of Hell - but it's not something all Christians believe. I think a good biblical case can be made both ways - for a literal Hell, and for none.

 

 

Give me a really good Biblical case for none -

 

And I think there's room for discussion about the ridiculous extremes of Christianity that even many other Christians think are ridiculous

 

Agreed, on some other site where people have not been damaged by all forms of Christianity. If people are "Christian" they should take it elsewhere instead of posting in the Colosseum where they think no criticism can touch them. Its a way to show how "good" Christians can be. I don't buy this crap. Take it to a Christian forum. And I don't care if I get a couple of points for saying this.

 

Nothing personal, but ignorance is bliss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saying something I don't believe is not trolling.

 

Since you say yourself that you never believed and you aren't an ex-christian I can't expect you to understand why this thread is trolling.

 

I totally agree about the inhumanity of the notion of Hell - but it's not something all Christians believe. I think a good biblical case can be made both ways - for a literal Hell, and for none.

 

 

Give me a really good Biblical case for none -

 

 

Nothing personal, but ignorance is bliss.

 

How is believeing in Buddha any different?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's plenty to question. The more you get into the Bible and the notion of Christianity, the worse it looks. The more you look at how believers behave versus nonbelievers, the more clear it is that all the claims of Christianity improving things are just not true. Look at the world today - the more secular a nation is, the more likely it is to care about justice, caring for the poor, etc.

 

And the Bible - you read it through, even if you try to omit the OT, none of it makes any sense. An all powerful being creates this whole universe - but cares about if we believe or not (not if we're good or not, just if we believe). The best people in the world are never going to heaven without following this god - but the worst can get there with some mere remorse. Believing in the religion your parents and everyone you know believes in is wrong, if it's the wrong religion, but good if it's the right one. Heck, the mere notion of Jesus - if god is all powerful, there's no need for a sacrifice if he wishes to change the rules for people. He can just make the change, and send a prophet - no need for an extended torture scene. And why allow a devil, if you are indeed all powerful? All this is omitting the notion of Hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saying something I don't believe is not trolling.

 

Since you say yourself that you never believed and you aren't an ex-christian I can't expect you to understand why this thread is trolling.

 

I totally agree about the inhumanity of the notion of Hell - but it's not something all Christians believe. I think a good biblical case can be made both ways - for a literal Hell, and for none.

 

 

Give me a really good Biblical case for none -

 

 

Nothing personal, but ignorance is bliss.

 

How is believeing in Buddha any different?

 

I never said I did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's plenty to question. The more you get into the Bible and the notion of Christianity, the worse it looks. The more you look at how believers behave versus nonbelievers, the more clear it is that all the claims of Christianity improving things are just not true. Look at the world today - the more secular a nation is, the more likely it is to care about justice, caring for the poor, etc.

 

And the Bible - you read it through, even if you try to omit the OT, none of it makes any sense. An all powerful being creates this whole universe - but cares about if we believe or not (not if we're good or not, just if we believe). The best people in the world are never going to heaven without following this god - but the worst can get there with some mere remorse. Believing in the religion your parents and everyone you know believes in is wrong, if it's the wrong religion, but good if it's the right one. Heck, the mere notion of Jesus - if god is all powerful, there's no need for a sacrifice if he wishes to change the rules for people. He can just make the change, and send a prophet - no need for an extended torture scene. And why allow a devil, if you are indeed all powerful? All this is omitting the notion of Hell.

 

To some extent, that is correct, More importnantly is what you said about non believers (If I can paraphrase: non fanatics might be a better term). The behavior of believers is uncalled for in many cases and as for them improving things: NOPE, that is certian. It has been yrs, but in the past I worked for 2 companies owned by "christians". What a joke they were and I mean the christian management. they treated the blue collar employees like shit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's plenty to question. The more you get into the Bible and the notion of Christianity, the worse it looks. The more you look at how believers behave versus nonbelievers, the more clear it is that all the claims of Christianity improving things are just not true. Look at the world today - the more secular a nation is, the more likely it is to care about justice, caring for the poor, etc.

 

And the Bible - you read it through, even if you try to omit the OT, none of it makes any sense. An all powerful being creates this whole universe - but cares about if we believe or not (not if we're good or not, just if we believe). The best people in the world are never going to heaven without following this god - but the worst can get there with some mere remorse. Believing in the religion your parents and everyone you know believes in is wrong, if it's the wrong religion, but good if it's the right one. Heck, the mere notion of Jesus - if god is all powerful, there's no need for a sacrifice if he wishes to change the rules for people. He can just make the change, and send a prophet - no need for an extended torture scene. And why allow a devil, if you are indeed all powerful? All this is omitting the notion of Hell.

 

You have not made a Biblical case for the nonexistence of hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Valk0010

There's plenty to question. The more you get into the Bible and the notion of Christianity, the worse it looks. The more you look at how believers behave versus nonbelievers, the more clear it is that all the claims of Christianity improving things are just not true. Look at the world today - the more secular a nation is, the more likely it is to care about justice, caring for the poor, etc.

 

And the Bible - you read it through, even if you try to omit the OT, none of it makes any sense. An all powerful being creates this whole universe - but cares about if we believe or not (not if we're good or not, just if we believe). The best people in the world are never going to heaven without following this god - but the worst can get there with some mere remorse. Believing in the religion your parents and everyone you know believes in is wrong, if it's the wrong religion, but good if it's the right one. Heck, the mere notion of Jesus - if god is all powerful, there's no need for a sacrifice if he wishes to change the rules for people. He can just make the change, and send a prophet - no need for an extended torture scene. And why allow a devil, if you are indeed all powerful? All this is omitting the notion of Hell.

 

You have not made a Biblical case for the nonexistence of hell.

Was she trying too? I thought she was just saying the bible was nonsense.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.