ilovemybrain Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I get ticked off when they assume all non-christians having the "postmodern" belief that we can make our own truth. Nope. Not saying that. God exists or he doesn't. Their belief and my lack of belief won't change reality. I just don't see any evidence their belief is true. It enrages me when they assume we really "know the truth" and we are denying it. They can win any argument that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name=WMDKitty' timestamp='1342585691' post='787828] [quote name=WMDKitty' timestamp='1342474764' post='787385] [quote name=Lilith666' timestamp='1342462878' post='787319] Anything said to or about a disabled person being "so brave" or "an inspiration" or how "god has a plan" and blah-de-blah. Yes, because it take so much COURAGE to... what? Lead a mostly-normal life? And it's so "inspiring" because... oh, look, the bipedal apes use technology to adapt to and get around disabilities and injuries, how fucking INSPIRING! Apparently you haven't met many disabled people. Notice I said "people." They are humans, not apes. I know some who are quadriplegics: they can't move anything below their necks, so they can only get around in a wheelchair that someone pushes. Because they can't speak, they have to communicate with a device the size of an air-conditioner that is strapped to their wheelchair. They spend most of their live in day care. People with severe mental disabilities don't go to high school, not to mention college. They get to sit in a play room and make macaroni art. Two things: I AM DISABLED. And: What the fuck was God's "plan" for them, then? 1) I'm sorry for that, but you are not disabled like some people are or you would not be here. 2) I never said God has a plan for them. Terrible things just happen. Mm, yeah, I should just feel so fucking lucky that I'm not "really disabled", unlike those other people who have it so much worse. That's like saying I shouldn't complain about the abuse I suffered, because other women get it so much worse than I did. It's fucking offensive. Yeah, as a disabled person who has to use a wheelchair, I get told often about people who have it much worse than me. I acknowledge that there are many people more disabled and in more pain than me. But, how is it supposed to make me feel better or be better to contemplate other people's misery? It is fucking offensive, indeed. It's too bad you have to use a wheelchair, but maybe not all of what people say is meant to make you feel better. WMDKitty said people with disabilities lead "mostly-normal lives." I pointed out many of their lives are anything but normal and they still manage not to be bitter. Yes, I do admire them. That's all. And you still don't understand why that's offensive. I don't want to be "admired", I don't want to be "an inspiration", how the fuck does that make me "bitter"? The world is not just about you because you have a disability. I wasn't talking about you when I said I admire disabled people. I meant those who don't get angry and take everything others say the wrong way. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to walk on eggshells so your feelings aren't offended. You seemed bitter when you started shouting about your disability and swearing at me. (Profanity is usually taken as hostility.) People who act like that are absolutely not an inspiration. So if you don't want to have a positive effect, don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 And once AGAIN, you fail to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 And once AGAIN, you fail to get it. No, you are not getting that you are being paranoid. Chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 How, exactly, is it "paranoid" to point out that you have directly marginalized many people's experiences of disability by saying that OTHER disabled people have it worse, so whatever I've faced is insignificant and can be brushed aside? Because that is exactly what you've done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It was not a comment about you, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I did not minimize your disability. I mentioned that so many people do not lead normal lives and, regardless of whether you feel the same way, they actually do want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It was not a comment about you, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I did not minimize your disability. I mentioned that so many people do not lead normal lives and, regardless of whether you feel the same way, they actually do want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain. Like I said, it was like telling a DV survivor that she should quit talking about the abuse she suffered because other women in the same situation have been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It was not a comment about you, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I did not minimize your disability. I mentioned that so many people do not lead normal lives and, regardless of whether you feel the same way, they actually do want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain. Like I said, it was like telling a DV survivor that she should quit talking about the abuse she suffered because other women in the same situation have been killed. I am done arguing about this because you are determined to believe that everything I say is negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inqui Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It was not a comment about you, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I did not minimize your disability. I mentioned that so many people do not lead normal lives and, regardless of whether you feel the same way, they actually do want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain. Like I said, it was like telling a DV survivor that she should quit talking about the abuse she suffered because other women in the same situation have been killed. I am done arguing about this because you are determined to believe that everything I say is negative. I think WMDKitty's point is that the niceness is kinda patronising. With the disabled people I know, this is certainly the case. The guy I talked about earlier wants to lead as normal a life as he can, and that includes the attitudes of those around him: he actually prefers to be laughed at in good nature for being unable to walk, than to have people treat him really nicely because of the wheelchair. I can see where you're coming from, that it's cool to see a disabled person living a mostly normal life and all, but again the people I know would rather be treated as they would be WITHOUT that disability and I think WMD is the same. Am I right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endemoniada Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 "God will turn it for your good" I hate this line so much, especially because it is the one I told myself when I gave up a great education at a charter school for 'gifted' students because I didn't want to be bullied into atheism by all those mean atheists that would be there. Yeah. Fucking. Right. And I always hated the Calvinist classic, Romans 9:20-21 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? I never liked this verse when I was a Christian, as it simultaneously confirmed my fears that the bible teaches predestination and disgusted me that god would intentionally create a human being for the sole purpose of sending them to hell, and then chastise them for simply asking "Why?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It was not a comment about you, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I did not minimize your disability. I mentioned that so many people do not lead normal lives and, regardless of whether you feel the same way, they actually do want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain. Like I said, it was like telling a DV survivor that she should quit talking about the abuse she suffered because other women in the same situation have been killed. I am done arguing about this because you are determined to believe that everything I say is negative. I think WMDKitty's point is that the niceness is kinda patronising. With the disabled people I know, this is certainly the case. The guy I talked about earlier wants to lead as normal a life as he can, and that includes the attitudes of those around him: he actually prefers to be laughed at in good nature for being unable to walk, than to have people treat him really nicely because of the wheelchair. I can see where you're coming from, that it's cool to see a disabled person living a mostly normal life and all, but again the people I know would rather be treated as they would be WITHOUT that disability and I think WMD is the same. Am I right? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 One of the strongest indicators, for me, that Christianity can't be true is that its followers have no more of a claim on morality or goodness than any heathen in the street, and many times much less of a claim (I look now to crime and DV rates in ultra-religious states). But when confronted about that, Christians have a number of bumper-sticker taglines to make excuses for their complete failure to live as though an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god lives inside them, possesses them, and is holding them to an impossibly rigorous standard for eternal stakes: I'm not perfect. Just forgiven. The church isn't a museum of saints, but a hospital for sinners. It's just our sin nature. All humans sin. (and my favorite, and by "my favorite" I mean "the thing that most makes me want to stab people with forks") You can't let PEOPLE get in the way of your walk with God. Oh! Okay. That's why the ranks of Christians are stuffed full of people like my Evil Ex who know how to act very well but who are filled with deception, cruelty, intolerance, and outright perversion, people who live as though they are completely aware that what they parrot in churches across the country every week is blatantly untrue. SIGN ME UP. If I had to design a faith system as barbaric and needlessly abusive as Christianity, one that was as good at producing "believers" who don't actually believe, I don't think I could do as good a job as Christians have over the last 1800 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 It was not a comment about you, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I did not minimize your disability. I mentioned that so many people do not lead normal lives and, regardless of whether you feel the same way, they actually do want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain. Like I said, it was like telling a DV survivor that she should quit talking about the abuse she suffered because other women in the same situation have been killed. I am done arguing about this because you are determined to believe that everything I say is negative. I think WMDKitty's point is that the niceness is kinda patronising. With the disabled people I know, this is certainly the case. The guy I talked about earlier wants to lead as normal a life as he can, and that includes the attitudes of those around him: he actually prefers to be laughed at in good nature for being unable to walk, than to have people treat him really nicely because of the wheelchair. I can see where you're coming from, that it's cool to see a disabled person living a mostly normal life and all, but again the people I know would rather be treated as they would be WITHOUT that disability and I think WMD is the same. Am I right? Well said! As a disabled person, that is exactly the way I feel. I HATE being patronized. Maybe Lillith666 really does know of some disabled people who "want to be examples of happiness in spite of pain." But I don't want to be an example of anything. I just want to get on with my life as best I can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlee Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 UGH! I just heard this one: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 UGH! I just heard this one: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" I like that one... its not really religious to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 "Nothing is impossible" Try slamming a revolving door. Like. Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlee Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 UGH! I just heard this one: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" I like that one... its not really religious to my knowledge. I've only heard it in a snarky religious context. Like, if you don't believe what we believe, you're a gullible fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 UGH! I just heard this one: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" I like that one... its not really religious to my knowledge. I've only heard it in a snarky religious context. Like, if you don't believe what we believe, you're a gullible fool. I first heard it in the context of the civil rights movement of the 1960s. (Yes, I'm that old.) Thought it was a pretty cool political statement -- until the fundigelicals stole it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 'I'll pray for you,' is at the top of my list. I have seen those who have more than enough money or food to help someone at their own church but instead of helping them they say, 'I'll pray for you.' Ark-tards abound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahlee Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 UGH! I just heard this one: "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything" I like that one... its not really religious to my knowledge. I've only heard it in a snarky religious context. Like, if you don't believe what we believe, you're a gullible fool. I first heard it in the context of the civil rights movement of the 1960s. (Yes, I'm that old.) Thought it was a pretty cool political statement -- until the fundigelicals stole it. Ok, I see. I guess it's just the context that annoys me. But, hey! I learned something new today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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