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Goodbye Jesus

God Expects U To Show Concern For Other People, Not Just Heaven


Noraa

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2PAC 2PAC 2PAC 2PAC.

 

 

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Ok I'm tryin 2 have a calm attitude while debating on here but I gotta let this one out. First of all yo bitch ass need to quit mentioning two people who are not only music legends but are also 2 people who are inspirational to the black community and the rest of society. Michael Jackson may have been a lil crazy but he was still a peaceful person. And yo lame ass don't need to mention shit about 2pac.

I'm convinced too now that you're a troll.

 

I'll let you play around for a little bit (a day perhaps), then you'll done here.

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U B 2 much troll. Bug R off U troll. Don't 4 get 2 take UR meds.

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Oh, Biggie was in the cut recording the whole thing. While Marvin Gaye bit his nipples.

 

Better?

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Ok this debate has gotten childish and lame minded. This message is only directed towards the lame people on this site. This debate has probably gotten lame minded because u lames have no logical explanation to defend how someone who rapes children have no punishment to face. When u intelligent atheists wanna start actin like adults and discuss somethin in a mature way holla at me. Until then, I can't lower myself to your level

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A good troll would hang in there. Pussy.

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You got your answer. PRISON. that's the punishment, jackass.

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For one, its a known fact that Heaven and Hell exist so its hard to imagine life without them.

 

That's just plain silly, Noraa. There is no empirical evidence for either place.

...and the only way to unhook yourself from the killing machine was to grab a knife in the room and cut open the other man until u find the key to save yourself. Would u kill the man by cutting him open and getting the key or would u die a slow painful death? And if it makes it any easier for u, the other guy is still drugged and in a coma.

 

Death is not a certainty for the other man... Particularly if I'm told where the key has been implanted. I have a pretty darned good idea of where the stomach is, I know how to make very delicate and exact cuts, and I'd be sure to bandage up the wound. After I escape and call 911 the other guy has a fair chance of survival.

 

Of course, I might just use said knife to cut all the wires and free both of us from the machine, then wield the knife as a weapon when the villain or one of his minions comes in.

Are u saying that there is no punishment for guys who abduct elementary children after school and molest them?

 

The only punishment they're likely to get is the punishment that society manages to give them. No matter how upset you are with the idea of someone getting away with a horrible crime... Wishing and wanting is not sufficient to make a place of perfect justice spring into existence.

Where is your proof that there is no Heaven and Hell? U would have 2 have a vast knowledge of the universe and other realms to prove this.

 

We don't have to "prove" it at all. We only have to not believe it.

 

For instance, Noraa, do *you* believe that I'm the Goddess of Random Equipment Malfunctions? That My dad is Oðinn, My little brother is Thor and My uncle is Loki? How about the time My friends and I won the Apocalypse? Or the time I brought down a government with a truth spell? Ever met My guardian dragon Glori in your local donut shop? How about the (approximately) 100 nine-inch-tall Chinese Tea Dragons known as the Hundred Uncles? Or Commander Rayaiss of the 'Ngi and her Litter of Pleiadian Space Cats?

 

You see, according to the woo-woo mythology that My household has imagined and embellished over the years, and according to several novels I've written, all of the above is allegedly true. The difference is that I don't actually care if you believe it. They're stories, and they're a great deal of fun to embroider with egregiously silly details.

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Not to sound sarcastic but u said that I'm avoiding your question however u didn't answer mine. So could u tell me would u slice open that person's guts to get that key and avoid a slow and painful death?

 

And as far as your research about true morality goes, I found it interesting that they didn't mention anything about logic. U say that morality starts off when we're children as a determination of choosing behaviour that gives us a better reward. But u are still sayin that Heaven and Hell don't exist. I'm assuming that this research eventually is gonna lead to the child maturing to where he understands the impact of his moral choice rather than choosing a moral choice for a reward. The problem is that if the child's tricks his brain into not believing in Heaven and Hell then logic and convenience becomes the factors that determines his decisions in life. Lets say the child becomes a man and has a hard time gettin a woman. Logic would tell him that he could snatch up a woman walkin in a neighborhood not heavily patrolled by the police and then rape her. Or to be even more sickly clever, he could just drug a woman who he convinced to go out with him and rape her and possibly keep her locked up in his basement to be a sex slave. He's gonna think why should he have to be concerned about her being abused when eventually he's just gonna die, be forever unconscience and fade away. Logic will tell him that women can be in situations where it will be easy to take advantage of a woman. And he will believe its convenient because he will no longer have to socially struggle to impress a woman and risk rejection. Without true morality determined by God, a persons decision is only determined by logic and convenience because morality has been thrown out the window

Empathy and compassion are traits needed for human survival(and the key component of any morality as well). That combo is why we haven't become a race of sociopaths. Survival of the fittest then alone would help to see that those traits survive to further species. Respond to your enviroment correctly, you survive, you don't you die. And since those are key components for any moral system, they don't need a god, unless you wish to debate creationism. This doesn't mean there is such thing as moral relativism either. It just means that the one goal, survival and thriving, is the basis of moral judgement. Its why for example you never see a society, were everybody lies, cheats, murders and steals, all the time. The society would die off. Now as to the specific question of what is right and wrong without a god. I dunno take a look at the variety of moral systems on this planet. Screams to me, that we are just trying to figure out, how to best have empathy, compassion and survival. Do we have to agree with other societies moral decisions? No, but do we have to recognize they come from the same place yes. In a way, the only real objective standard for any sort of ethics, is "do no harm." Everything else is just commentary on those three words.

 

So basically you're saying that society is ok as long as some people are evil and some are good. So are u also saying that as long as a lot of people are evil and a few people are good and society survives, that the society is well off? Are u sayin that the only reason to do good is to keep society from falling?

No actually on the first two questions. I am only saying a god is not required in the design and if anything dropping god from the explanation fits the facts better. The two key things of any ethical system also have a evolutionary basis. It was advantageous to develop those traits for our survival. They serve a dual person within the context of this discussion. And since we have a evolutionary explanation for the development of those key ethical components, then a god isn't required. If we developed without those key concepts, we would have not survive as a species. I am saying society is okay as long as it survives. Is that a excuse for evil, no not really. I am saying simply, goodness is what makes the world go round and that is why its good. What doesn't help us survive and thrive as a race can be considered evil. Murder and Rape are prime examples of that. And as far as, differences in views on what is the idea of not doing harm. Indeed using logic and evidence is the way to settle the disputes left after accepting that premise that ethics is a system of which how to live life the most harm free and suffering free way possible.

 

The god hypothesis allows no room for debate, and in fact can't account adequately for why there is a debate.

 

The only reason to do good, is because to not do good is to destroy ourselves.

 

Ok so u are saying that u agree with other atheists that no punishments happen to the sickly clever rapists and murderers since u said that God is not required for morality? If they have no punishments to face, why should they be concerned if their society survives 200 years from now? According to u, they will have been faded away and not in Hell

Well are we talking punishment or what is right and wrong? Because if your desperate to believe that someone is going to burn in hell for there crimes and you can't function without it. Fine by me, even if I disagree. Punishment is the response to wrong.

 

Also, does punishment really stop people? If your inclined to murder, does the idea of the electric chair, or hell really prevent you from murdering? I tend to think not on both counts.

 

When facts and emotion blend, its hard to see anything. But, I said, that was the imperative for people to do good. That was the basis for understanding what is good. The fact that some do evil does not change the imperative for people to do good and try to figure out what is good.

 

Now, how do we know what is evil. Lets take the example of rape that your fond of. How do we know its wrong? Lets pretend right now there is no such thing as punishment because that is a red herring to determining right and wrong. We know its wrong, because we know a few things.

 

1. Would not want to experience that kind of thing ourselves. (ala Kant's catogorical imperative)

2. Will the action will change the person for the rest of there lives, and in a way that isn't for the better.(ala Utilitarianism)

3.What positive benefit would this action bring to the other person? (ala Utilitarianism, and to a certain extent virue ethics)

 

Rape would fail as a moral good action on all three, but even it just failed a majority(2/3) of them makes it morally questionable if not bad.

 

Punishment does not have to be involved in determining action.

 

A action that would be punished, like say murder, would violate all three of those. The fact that it violates those, is true despite whatever punishment might be.

 

I get the impression what your trying to say is that, we can't know right and wrong without a god and his actions. Well then prove to me that murder is wrong without using those three things? I didn't need a god to come up with those, nor did people like Kant, or Mill or Aristotle.

 

Now as to the part of no punishment without hell,don't you think, you need a factual basis for the existence of a hell in the first place?

 

Secondly, don't you think, it would actually be more moral, to not think in those terms? A really great example is the case of Adolf Eichmann the nazi colonel who helped plan the holocaust. He managed to escape to argetina. And he was found in 1960 by the mossad. Don't you think a lack of belief in a hell would be some emotional assistence to help catch someone like that. A belief in hell could say, ohh let him go, god will get him. Or how about the Zodiac killer, who was never caught? A belief in hell would say hey don't worry about it.

 

Also, put another way, truth is truth. If there is no factual reason to believe in a god or hell, then we have to play the hand we are dealt. If there is one great, Eichmann would burn. But if there isn't, that only puts the imperative on us, to prosecute all criminals. We may want there to be a hell(in theory) but if there is no reason to believe on exists, that means then we can't say one exists. Wanting something to be true is not the same as it being true or having a reason for it to be true.

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For one, its a known fact that Heaven and Hell exist so its hard to imagine life without them.

 

That's just plain silly, Noraa. There is no empirical evidence for either place.

...and the only way to unhook yourself from the killing machine was to grab a knife in the room and cut open the other man until u find the key to save yourself. Would u kill the man by cutting him open and getting the key or would u die a slow painful death? And if it makes it any easier for u, the other guy is still drugged and in a coma.

 

Death is not a certainty for the other man... Particularly if I'm told where the key has been implanted. I have a pretty darned good idea of where the stomach is, I know how to make very delicate and exact cuts, and I'd be sure to bandage up the wound. After I escape and call 911 the other guy has a fair chance of survival.

 

Of course, I might just use said knife to cut all the wires and free both of us from the machine, then wield the knife as a weapon when the villain or one of his minions comes in.

Are u saying that there is no punishment for guys who abduct elementary children after school and molest them?

 

The only punishment they're likely to get is the punishment that society manages to give them. No matter how upset you are with the idea of someone getting away with a horrible crime... Wishing and wanting is not sufficient to make a place of perfect justice spring into existence.

Where is your proof that there is no Heaven and Hell? U would have 2 have a vast knowledge of the universe and other realms to prove this.

 

We don't have to "prove" it at all. We only have to not believe it.

 

For instance, Noraa, do *you* believe that I'm the Goddess of Random Equipment Malfunctions? That My dad is Oðinn, My little brother is Thor and My uncle is Loki? How about the time My friends and I won the Apocalypse? Or the time I brought down a government with a truth spell? Ever met My guardian dragon Glori in your local donut shop? How about the (approximately) 100 nine-inch-tall Chinese Tea Dragons known as the Hundred Uncles? Or Commander Rayaiss of the 'Ngi and her Litter of Pleiadian Space Cats?

 

You see, according to the woo-woo mythology that My household has imagined and embellished over the years, and according to several novels I've written, all of the above is allegedly true. The difference is that I don't actually care if you believe it. They're stories, and they're a great deal of fun to embroider with egregiously silly details.

 

The idea that rapists and serial killers who carefully plot out their crimes and away with their evil by fading away instead of going 2 Hell is silly. Such a belief could truly promote people to do evil.

 

U seem to be trying to dodge answering my question of would u cut the person open to get the key or would u die a slow painful death? Its very obvious that I'm implying that u would have to kill the man in order to get the key. The average person does not know how to carefully cut open a person without the other person dying. And why would the abducter leave bandages in the room? Why the hell would he make the machine where u could just use the knife to cut your way out instead having to cut the other guy? U just added that other stuff to the story to sugar coat the fact that u would cut open and kill the other guy in order for u to get out. And this reveals what I have been knowing for a long time about atheists, and that is that atheists life decisions are based on logic and convenience rather than true morality.

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Yea I'm sure a lot of people will hate me on this site because I still respect God and believe in Heaven and Hell. It doesn't matter, good karma will come to me regardless. I'm just tryin to clear up whe wrong views of why spiritual people follow God and are good people

I hear someone who has one realization they've come to on their own, which is a good thing. You still couch it in mythological terms such as heaven and hell, or a system of reward/punishment, but I take that as a still immature understanding on your part. What's it the Apostle Paul says, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me"?

 

I've asked this question of Christians before and I'll ask it of you. If you found out there was no afterlife, no heaven or hell, no resurrection where you get to live forever in paradise, and that when you die, you cease to exist... would you still embrace God in your faith? Would you still follow love for love's sake, even if all there was in this life for you was to simply give that to others, then die into forgetfulness, forever? Where does your heart truly lay?

 

To me, how you answer this will underscore that you truly sense that this rewards/punishment system designed for children is besides the real point, and that love for love's sake is in fact its own true reward. How do you answer?

 

This is one of those hypothetical questions thats difficult to answer. For one, its a known fact that Heaven and Hell exist so its hard to imagine life without them. It would also be a miserable scenario, let me give u an example why. If u and another guy that u didn't know were locked in a room and u were hooked up to a machine that would kill u very painfully and slowly and then the guy who locked u two in the room comes on a TV screen and explains that the other guy you're locked up with has been drugged and has had the key to your machine surgically implanted into his stomach and the only way to unhook yourself from the killing machine was to grab a knife in the room and cut open the other man until u find the key to save yourself. Would u kill the man by cutting him open and getting the key or would u die a slow painful death? And if it makes it any easier for u, the other guy is still drugged and in a coma.

 

U see, hypothetical questions aren't always a good way to win an argument. Hypothetical questions are simply what if scenarios. And we can't be held accountable for what if, only for what is. And the real situation is that Heaven, Hell, and Karma do exist

 

The real situation is no, Heaven, Hell and Karma do not exist. God told me so today.

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Noraa. Are you retarded? No seriously- You must be.

 

Oh, I'd really like to see this proof of heaven and hell existing. It is fact, and all. Let me guess...heaven is north, and hell is south?

 

Pics?

 

I think the Russians bored a hole to hell and dropped a microphone down there to record the screams....it's true! It's on the Internet! lol.

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. Its just that you're asking me to imagine a scenario thats beyond a normal person's comprehension of life. A world with no God, Heaven, and Hell is just too hard to imagine. Oh and by the way, why was it so hard for u to just say that u would cut open the person and get the key? I guess your explanation was ok, but u could of also said yea, I would cut the person open

 

I'm relatively normal and everyday I understand fully that there is no God, Heaven or Hell. Not hard to imagine at all... Just open my eyes and there it is!

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There is punishment. It's called "prison".

 

You're making the positive claim. The burden of proof is on you to prove your imaginary fairy tale lands exist. If I say Michael Jackson is in my living room right now giving a hand job to Tupac, who are you to say that's not happening? Prove it!

 

Ok I'm tryin 2 have a calm attitude while debating on here but I gotta let this one out. First of all yo bitch ass need to quit mentioning two people who are not only music legends but are also 2 people who are inspirational to the black community and the rest of society. Michael Jackson may have been a lil crazy but he was still a peaceful person. And yo lame ass don't need to mention shit about 2pac.

 

Lord Jebus hath judged Tupac for his sinful ways and sent him to the fiery pit.

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The idea that rapists and serial killers who carefully plot out their crimes and away with their evil by fading away instead of going 2 Hell is silly. Such a belief could truly promote people to do evil.

 

 

People DO evil all the time. Some even believe in Jesus and Heaven and Hell and still RAPE and KILL. Oh LAWDY NO! God fearing folk couldn't POSSIBLY kill and rape and rob and beat up and eat faces off one another if they believe they might go to HELL....

 

Get a grip.

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America is one of the most "Christian" countries on earth, and we have one of the highest crime rates on earth as well. Care to explain that for my dumb atheist brain, Noraa? If most everyone here believes in heaven and hell, why are there so many rapists, murderers and abusers?

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I'm not really tryin to avoid the question of would I do good if I believed there was no God? I tryin 2 see where your perspective is on morality. U started this game so I think u should make the first move of answering rather or not u would cut open the other person to get the key so u can avoid a slow painful death? A question that u have also avoided twice

I'm not avoiding the question. I do not believe I should answer you until you answer the question I asked first. It's proper conduct in a dialog, you know.

 

But to answer anyway, I believe you should "Love your neighbor as yourself". How someone in that situation inhabits that principle in themselves and acts on it is not something that you or anyone else is in authority to judge. I do not view morality as static laws, but "laws written on the heart", which means that they are guided by a true heart. What is moral, is to be true.

 

Now, answer the question I first asked of you. However, I think I can tell your answer already.

 

Wow, what a heck of a way to say that u would cut open the person to get the key.

I said no such thing. That's what you projected on to me from yourself. This says what you would do. All I said is a defer making any judgment of what I would or would not do until the time I was presented with that situation, save for the principle of being in touch with my own moral heart at the time, and allow that to make the decision. I said it this way to underscore that I do not believe that a morally developed individual needs or functions off of external codes. It's right there in your own Bible if you were able to see it beyond your need for a Sky Parent, Big Person rules you as a child must live up to, not understanding the reasons behind such codes. The codes are not morality itself, silly. "Make clean the inside of the cup as well," says your friend Jesus.

 

Now to be fair, I'm gonna answer the question would I be good if I believed there was no God? Actually I don't know.

I didn't suspect so. Nothing in what you have said shows me this is an internalized reality for you. In fact as such, you yourself are only just barely realizing that which you are trying to say in the opening post of this thread. I don't think that's bad of course. I think its good, but you have a long ways to go yet. And when you do, you will see why I say that threats of heaven and hell are utterly nonsensical to a mature soul. You in where you are at may still need to believe in them because you haven't found who you are inside yet.

 

To answer my question to you myself, I don't believe in an afterlife, a physical resurrection of the dead, any rewards/punishment from any Sky Parent, I don't believe any of these things are literal places or realms we go beyond the doors of death. I believe when I die, I die. I don't believe there is any law outside ourselves from a God we must obey or suffer his wrath over. And yet, I completely embrace and pursue a knowledge of the Divine and spiritual development within myself. It's not how you in your thinking imagine it, because you can't see it yet. But to be sure, I do for its own sake because it is good. In other words, I choose love for love's sake alone. I choose to give myself over to it, for its sake only because it is Beauty. It is not because I greedily wish to claim it for myself, but to become it, and it become me for its sake alone.

 

You simply haven't come to see it yet. But I will say to you that you should begin to loosen your grip on these notions of the necessity of heaven and hell, as for one thing you can clearly see at least in me it isn't necessary. You need to stop looking up in the sky for God to save you, and look for that inside you, through which you become that. Heaven disappears, it dissolves into you. All that is is now. Heaven is here, and hell is a metaphorical way we experience ourselves removed from that - here, and now, in ourselves. It's not a literal place you go after death, but the experience of our being in the present.

 

Even if I wanted to be "good" in such a world where there was no Heaven and Hell I would still have on the back of my mind that I have no consequence to face if I get away with being "evil".

And so, having no consequence from outside yourself, how would you then choose to act? That's the real question. If you would choose to act for good without any hope of rewards or punishments, then what is it in you that would chose that? If you were able to see that, then embrace that and learn of it, then you might begin to see and understand. Right now for you, its hidden, right there in plain sight.

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I'm not really tryin to avoid the question of would I do good if I believed there was no God? I tryin 2 see where your perspective is on morality. U started this game so I think u should make the first move of answering rather or not u would cut open the other person to get the key so u can avoid a slow painful death? A question that u have also avoided twice

I'm not avoiding the question. I do not believe I should answer you until you answer the question I asked first. It's proper conduct in a dialog, you know.

 

But to answer anyway, I believe you should "Love your neighbor as yourself". How someone in that situation inhabits that principle in themselves and acts on it is not something that you or anyone else is in authority to judge. I do not view morality as static laws, but "laws written on the heart", which means that they are guided by a true heart. What is moral, is to be true.

 

Now, answer the question I first asked of you. However, I think I can tell your answer already.

 

Wow, what a heck of a way to say that u would cut open the person to get the key.

I said no such thing. That's what you projected on to me from yourself. This says what you would do. All I said is a defer making any judgment of what I would or would not do until the time I was presented with that situation, save for the principle of being in touch with my own moral heart at the time, and allow that to make the decision. I said it this way to underscore that I do not believe that a morally developed individual needs or functions off of external codes. It's right there in your own Bible if you were able to see it beyond your need for a Sky Parent, Big Person rules you as a child must live up to, not understanding the reasons behind such codes. The codes are not morality itself, silly. "Make clean the inside of the cup as well," says your friend Jesus.

 

Now to be fair, I'm gonna answer the question would I be good if I believed there was no God? Actually I don't know.

I didn't suspect so. Nothing in what you have said shows me this is an internalized reality for you. In fact as such, you yourself are only just barely realizing that which you are trying to say in the opening post of this thread. I don't think that's bad of course. I think its good, but you have a long ways to go yet. And when you do, you will see why I say that threats of heaven and hell are utterly nonsensical to a mature soul. You in where you are at may still need to believe in them because you haven't found who you are inside yet.

 

To answer my question to you myself, I don't believe in an afterlife, a physical resurrection of the dead, any rewards/punishment from any Sky Parent, I don't believe any of these things are literal places or realms we go beyond the doors of death. I believe when I die, I die. I don't believe there is any law outside ourselves from a God we must obey or suffer his wrath over. And yet, I completely embrace and pursue a knowledge of the Divine and spiritual development within myself. It's not how you in your thinking imagine it, because you can't see it yet. But to be sure, I do for its own sake because it is good. In other words, I choose love for love's sake alone. I choose to give myself over to it, for its sake only because it is Beauty. It is not because I greedily wish to claim it for myself, but to become it, and it become me for its sake alone.

 

You simply haven't come to see it yet. But I will say to you that you should begin to loosen your grip on these notions of the necessity of heaven and hell, as for one thing you can clearly see at least in me it isn't necessary. You need to stop looking up in the sky for God to save you, and look for that inside you, through which you become that. Heaven disappears, it dissolves into you. All that is is now. Heaven is here, and hell is a metaphorical way we experience ourselves removed from that - here, and now, in ourselves. It's not a literal place you go after death, but the experience of our being in the present.

 

Even if I wanted to be "good" in such a world where there was no Heaven and Hell I would still have on the back of my mind that I have no consequence to face if I get away with being "evil".

And so, having no consequence from outside yourself, how would you then choose to act? That's the real question. If you would choose to act for good without any hope of rewards or punishments, then what is it in you that would chose that? If you were able to see that, then embrace that and learn of it, then you might begin to see and understand. Right now for you, its hidden, right there in plain sight.

 

So what I'm getting from all this is that u are going thru a great deal to avoid answering my question of would u cut open the other guy to get the key? U basically tricked me into answering your question by giving me the run around with my question. Just be honest, atheists life decisions are based on logic and convenience rather than true morality

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would u cut open the other guy to get the key?

Is the other guy you? That would make a big difference.

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There is punishment. It's called "prison".

 

You're making the positive claim. The burden of proof is on you to prove your imaginary fairy tale lands exist. If I say Michael Jackson is in my living room right now giving a hand job to Tupac, who are you to say that's not happening? Prove it!

 

Ok I'm tryin 2 have a calm attitude while debating on here but I gotta let this one out. First of all yo bitch ass need to quit mentioning two people who are not only music legends but are also 2 people who are inspirational to the black community and the rest of society. Michael Jackson may have been a lil crazy but he was still a peaceful person. And yo lame ass don't need to mention shit about 2pac.

 

Ooooooo! A bilingual troll. This one can switch to Eubonics (and phony-baloney indignation) in a split second. I'm impressed. Not.

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So what I'm getting from all this is that u are going thru a great deal to avoid answering my question of would u cut open the other guy to get the key? U basically tricked me into answering your question by giving me the run around with my question.

No, I was very clear and explicit in my answer. You didn't understand it, and still don't, and so you projected upon me yourself. I'll put it this way, the chances a good that I would choose to die myself, but it isn't until you are faced with such a situation that you can truly answer.

 

I know you're looking for a black and white answer, but that is not how morality, or life itself, works. Sorry.

 

Just be honest, atheists life decisions are based on logic and convenience rather than true morality

I'm not an atheist. Do you read what I say, or just make assumptions and black and white judgments?

 

BTW, someone who needs threats of heaven and hell, are in fact externalizing morality and it cannot be called "true morality", which is one that comes from a mature sense of morality within the individual. Previously, it all has to be externalized. It's an external code, not an internal realization, not a genuine or 'true' morality. It's not real to them yet.

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would u cut open the other guy to get the key?

Is the other guy you? That would make a big difference.

:lmao:

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would u cut open the other guy to get the key?

Is the other guy you? That would make a big difference.

 

:HaHa::puke:

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Seriously, fucking cut it out with the "would you cut it out" questions. What, are you like 9 on your mommys iPhone or something? I'd cut that mother fucker out in a heartbeat. If I dont, we both die anyways.

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Antler....he doesn't understand anything you're saying. He simply can't grasp the language or logic.

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