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Goodbye Jesus

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starlyte777

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Patty ever hear of kathyn Kulman?

 

She was a faith healer that would supposedly cure things like cancer and apparently genuinely believed that she did when she really didn't cure a thing.

 

yes have heard of her, and thot that was GOD HEALS

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ok you asked what kind of miracles? first my daughter..........my neice........someone named Jim who had a severe proble........prayed for him went away..........my daughter in law.......cured of Spinal defect..........and more..............how do I get past what I have seen with my own eyes? oh and a family who called me to a hospital.........the babyboy was dieing............I layed on the bed with him........i prayed for him.............his color came back.......was not on any machines........they were waiting for him to die............he came back and as far as I have heard ........living normal healthy life.....i can't get past those things without a reason to............so, if you have one.......tell me

 

There is no need to stop believing in love and healing, Patty. If people were healed, there is no need to deny that. That doesn't prove that an ancient tribal god did it, but debunking that god does not debunk healing in general.

 

ty True...........but what is there left to believe in......if not a GOD? My heart is aching and I need someone to talk to when i can't sleep......that was always GOD.......what do I do now? I have nothing left, if not a God............whom I now know is a myth.......an asshole, a totally non caring THNG that let me be abused for most of my early life.......what kind of GOD would do that? You are all right..........I'm screwed.......have nothing left but my family....who partly loves and accepts me.....and who hates me for going against "our" beliefs............this is very hard.......it gets harder the more I learn, and the more I realize what a scam HE IS.............I feel really alone right now..........thankfully, my 4 grandkids are coming today............they are my hope.......my reason for living.........I just wish my mom's dieing breath wasn't ......."you didn't pray hard enough"........

 

thank all of for your support and friendship......and love......I can feel that, and I thank you for it..........Patty, xx

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ty Overcome Faith............yes, is hard for me.........but, I can't discount all the times my prayers didn't work.........like when my Dad died.........I was devasted! I so thought God would answer me........and save my Dad.......my mom blamed me for his death........she knew I had prayed for others who were healed........am crying now as I remember her rebuke......."why couldn't you and God save my husband..........your Father........"....it haunts me to this day...........she didn't speak to me for over a year.......and when she did...........she said, "I have nothing to say tp you, nothing in common with you, leave me the hell alone." So I did for a while..........reached out to her over and over until she finally let me in..........but, I blame myself for my father's death.......how does a daughter get over that? I can't do this anymore.........it is painful...........I am to blame for my Dad's death...........enuf said.....

ty for your response tho...........Patty, xx

 

I think that would be something terribly difficult to get over and I am sorry you had to go through the accusation that you had some responsibility for your Dad's death. Though coming to terms with the religion may be terribly difficult, there can also be great freedom when we release ourselves (and others) from responsibilities over which we (and they) have no control such as being expected to say the one prayer that might somehow convince god to intervene and heal a loved one. It's the same freedom that will allow you to release yourself from any feeling of responsibility for the unfortunate death of your Dad.

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Deconversion is a BITCH.

 

This morning I woke up at 4 am and lay in bed for about 2 hours thinking of actually semi-embracing xianity again on some level, only because I was feeling really depressed. I knew I could never actually believe it is real ever again, but I could at least sing some songs when im at church with my still-believing wife and stuff like that to get some feel good vibes. And play the part to make her feel a little bit better and not feel so much disdain or whatever it is i feel when talking to people at church.

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ty Overcome Faith............yes, is hard for me.........but, I can't discount all the times my prayers didn't work.........like when my Dad died.........I was devasted! I so thought God would answer me........and save my Dad.......my mom blamed me for his death........she knew I had prayed for others who were healed........am crying now as I remember her rebuke......."why couldn't you and God save my husband..........your Father........"....it haunts me to this day...........she didn't speak to me for over a year.......and when she did...........she said, "I have nothing to say tp you, nothing in common with you, leave me the hell alone." So I did for a while..........reached out to her over and over until she finally let me in..........but, I blame myself for my father's death.......how does a daughter get over that? I can't do this anymore.........it is painful...........I am to blame for my Dad's death...........enuf said.....

ty for your response tho...........Patty, xx

 

No, no, no, do NOT blame yourself for your father's death! If your prayers for him weren't answered, then either God simply didn't save him or God isn't really there. Either way, it is NOT your fault! Beyond that, it seems incredibly insensitive for your mother to blame you. At any rate, I'm glad your mother let you back in her life, and I hope things are good between you now. I just want you to realize, though, that you cannot be held responsible for your father's death, because eventually death gets us all. It's an unwelcome and difficult fact of life, but a fact nonetheless. You are NOT responsible for that fact of life. Please try to let the false guilt go.

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That's one of the really sick sides about religion - the illusion of control makes the trauma all the worse when it's revealled to be nothing but illusion. If you think God saves some, then if he doesn't save 'your' person - it was a deliberate choice.

 

You helped people to feel better, you provided good wishes - but medicine and the body's natural healing abilities, or lack thereof, are what decides who lives and who dies.

 

Your mom was acting as if you were God - as if you chose who lived and who died. Ridiculous even if you do believe - a Christian would think that God chose, not you.

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ty Overcome Faith............yes, is hard for me.........but, I can't discount all the times my prayers didn't work.........like when my Dad died.........I was devasted! I so thought God would answer me........and save my Dad.......my mom blamed me for his death........she knew I had prayed for others who were healed........am crying now as I remember her rebuke......."why couldn't you and God save my husband..........your Father........"....it haunts me to this day...........she didn't speak to me for over a year.......and when she did...........she said, "I have nothing to say tp you, nothing in common with you, leave me the hell alone." So I did for a while..........reached out to her over and over until she finally let me in..........but, I blame myself for my father's death.......how does a daughter get over that? I can't do this anymore.........it is painful...........I am to blame for my Dad's death...........enuf said.....

ty for your response tho...........Patty, xx

 

I think that would be something terribly difficult to get over and I am sorry you had to go through the accusation that you had some responsibility for your Dad's death. Though coming to terms with the religion may be terribly difficult, there can also be great freedom when we release ourselves (and others) from responsibilities over which we (and they) have no control such as being expected to say the one prayer that might somehow convince god to intervene and heal a loved one. It's the same freedom that will allow you to release yourself from any feeling of responsibility for the unfortunate death of your Dad.

 

I know you're right...........talked to my SIL yesterday......made things clearer...........aka.......prayed for hundreds who were not healed...........i guess because this was so close to home.........I wanted sooooooo badly.......ty for your concern...........my mom died a few years later.......my sister thot I should have done more.......but, because me and GOD couldn's save my dad...........was reluctant to pray over her........she was angry with me when she died, altho I thought we had made a connection.........I know I can't dwell on that........not believing in a GOD would make it much easier.......if I can get there

ty, Patty xx

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ok someone asked if i had a question...........I do...........I believed in healing from God for so many years...........saw it in my family and with others.......how can you explain that? I believe GOD worked thru me to heal many of my family and friends......altho I have watched every video you all have sent me..I still question this one thing...........IT WAS REAL.............explain how it was NOT real.............plz.......

 

This is an important and thoughtful question. Before I begin to try to answer you, I am so very glad to hear that your family and friends have been healed, I'm sure, in many ways. I also want to commend you for what sounds like the role you played in at least some of these healings. Of course, I do not know the details, but I imagine you did things like pray for them, held their hands, encouraged them, maybe nursed them, saw to it that they received medical care and untold other things. I have no doubt whatsoever that the aid you administered played a substantial factor in the good news of your family and friends being healed.

 

The question, though, appears to be one that goes right to the heart of your faith. That question is whether god had anything to do with these healings.

 

I assume that at least some of your family and friends who were healed received medical treatment. We know from various studies and from our experience that modern medicine has played a huge role in helping people to recover from various illnesses and injuries.

 

I'm sure you remember when polio was a major scare around the world. You probably remember thousands of people living in the iron lung who were stricken down by that dreaded disease. When I was a child and attending what we called grammar school (now called elementary school), we were all lined up and given a sugar cube which contained the vaccine to prevent polio. My mother was so happy that we were receving that vaccine because she lived in dread of polio and just the thought that her children would not be infected with the disease was a joyous occasion. Today, younger folks (like most on ExC) have no idea what life was like living in fear of a polio outbreak. And I am so glad they do not know what that was like.

 

As wonderful as the vaccine has been in virtually eliminating polio, does god get credit for it? If god had anything to do with it, why did he wait until the 1950s and 1960s to begin eliminating it as a threat to people? He let it go for thousands of years of human history and allowed untold human suffering, misery, fear, and death. No, it wasn't god, it was good scientific research followed up by a population wide administration of the vaccine which allowed us to defeat polio.

 

There are, of course, many other such stories. Did you know that early humans died of dental diseases? Science has again come to the rescue, not god who, for thousands of years, allowed people to die of dental diseases and live through unbearable pain and suffering without doing anything about it.

 

Be very open and honest with yourself as you consider this issue. What is god doing about the pain and suffering that so many African children are enduring today because of starvation, the rampage of AIDS, diarrhea, and other diseases as well as a lack of water and political turmoil? From what I can tell, nothing, just like he did nothing about polio.

 

I think history teaches us something of vital importance. If there is a god, he is simply not in the business of keeping us in good health and cares nothing about whether we either get injured or become infected with a disease or, if we do, whether we recover from them. If he cared (assuming some deity exists), then he certainly has a poor way of showing it and the historical record is all the evidence I need to submit to prove this point.

 

As I have already said and want to reaffirm here, I am confident that you did play a role in the healings of your family and friends. But I am equally confident that modern medicine played a crucial role, as well.

 

Try thinking back carefully over some of the specific examples that you have in mind. What was the course of events that lead to the healing? Did they receive medical attention or, if it was a psychological or emotional issue, did they receive psychological or emotional help (whether from a professional, you or someone else)?

 

But even if you have in mind someone for whom the doctors gave up all hope but they recovered nonetheless, you should bear in mind that there are spontaneous remissions from such diseases like cancer. No one can really explain these spontaneous remissions, but just because they are unexplainable now (though they may be one day), that is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was god who interceded on their behalf.

 

Why would god cause such a remission in this person but ignore the millions of others who die horrible deaths around the world? I do not think a god who cared would ignore the suffering millions but tend only to the favored few. However, either no god or a deity who didn't care one way or the other would give us the exact picture we see of health and suffering in the world today in which those who live in the wealthier nations are more often healed while those in the poor parts of the world suffer and die needlessly.

 

I know this is a tough issue and one that I had to consider just as you are having to do now. As I said in an earlier post to you, the truth is not always happy - it is only the truth and we are left to deal with it as well as we are capable.

 

I wish you well.

 

ty..........the more I read.......and more importantly, the more I look back and ponder............i come to conclusions which I despise right now.......there cannot be a Loveinng GOD that would let my dad die after so much praer.......anointing him with "sacred oil".........day after day...........that was too cruel on all fronts...........except for my Mom who believed, as I did it would work............it DID NOT........nor did my praying for her in her last days........they are both gone......and really.........WHERE IS GOD?????????????

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ok someone asked if i had a question...........I do...........I believed in healing from God for so many years...........saw it in my family and with others.......how can you explain that? I believe GOD worked thru me to heal many of my family and friends......altho I have watched every video you all have sent me..I still question this one thing...........IT WAS REAL.............explain how it was NOT real.............plz.......

 

This is an important and thoughtful question. Before I begin to try to answer you, I am so very glad to hear that your family and friends have been healed, I'm sure, in many ways. I also want to commend you for what sounds like the role you played in at least some of these healings. Of course, I do not know the details, but I imagine you did things like pray for them, held their hands, encouraged them, maybe nursed them, saw to it that they received medical care and untold other things. I have no doubt whatsoever that the aid you administered played a substantial factor in the good news of your family and friends being healed.

 

The question, though, appears to be one that goes right to the heart of your faith. That question is whether god had anything to do with these healings.

 

I assume that at least some of your family and friends who were healed received medical treatment. We know from various studies and from our experience that modern medicine has played a huge role in helping people to recover from various illnesses and injuries.

 

I'm sure you remember when polio was a major scare around the world. You probably remember thousands of people living in the iron lung who were stricken down by that dreaded disease. When I was a child and attending what we called grammar school (now called elementary school), we were all lined up and given a sugar cube which contained the vaccine to prevent polio. My mother was so happy that we were receving that vaccine because she lived in dread of polio and just the thought that her children would not be infected with the disease was a joyous occasion. Today, younger folks (like most on ExC) have no idea what life was like living in fear of a polio outbreak. And I am so glad they do not know what that was like.

 

As wonderful as the vaccine has been in virtually eliminating polio, does god get credit for it? If god had anything to do with it, why did he wait until the 1950s and 1960s to begin eliminating it as a threat to people? He let it go for thousands of years of human history and allowed untold human suffering, misery, fear, and death. No, it wasn't god, it was good scientific research followed up by a population wide administration of the vaccine which allowed us to defeat polio.

 

There are, of course, many other such stories. Did you know that early humans died of dental diseases? Science has again come to the rescue, not god who, for thousands of years, allowed people to die of dental diseases and live through unbearable pain and suffering without doing anything about it.

 

Be very open and honest with yourself as you consider this issue. What is god doing about the pain and suffering that so many African children are enduring today because of starvation, the rampage of AIDS, diarrhea, and other diseases as well as a lack of water and political turmoil? From what I can tell, nothing, just like he did nothing about polio.

 

I think history teaches us something of vital importance. If there is a god, he is simply not in the business of keeping us in good health and cares nothing about whether we either get injured or become infected with a disease or, if we do, whether we recover from them. If he cared (assuming some deity exists), then he certainly has a poor way of showing it and the historical record is all the evidence I need to submit to prove this point.

 

As I have already said and want to reaffirm here, I am confident that you did play a role in the healings of your family and friends. But I am equally confident that modern medicine played a crucial role, as well.

 

Try thinking back carefully over some of the specific examples that you have in mind. What was the course of events that lead to the healing? Did they receive medical attention or, if it was a psychological or emotional issue, did they receive psychological or emotional help (whether from a professional, you or someone else)?

 

But even if you have in mind someone for whom the doctors gave up all hope but they recovered nonetheless, you should bear in mind that there are spontaneous remissions from such diseases like cancer. No one can really explain these spontaneous remissions, but just because they are unexplainable now (though they may be one day), that is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was god who interceded on their behalf.

 

Why would god cause such a remission in this person but ignore the millions of others who die horrible deaths around the world? I do not think a god who cared would ignore the suffering millions but tend only to the favored few. However, either no god or a deity who didn't care one way or the other would give us the exact picture we see of health and suffering in the world today in which those who live in the wealthier nations are more often healed while those in the poor parts of the world suffer and die needlessly.

 

I know this is a tough issue and one that I had to consider just as you are having to do now. As I said in an earlier post to you, the truth is not always happy - it is only the truth and we are left to deal with it as well as we are capable.

 

I wish you well.

 

ty..........the more I read.......and more importantly, the more I look back and ponder............i come to conclusions which I despise right now.......there cannot be a Loveinng GOD that would let my dad die after so much praer.......anointing him with "sacred oil".........day after day...........that was too cruel on all fronts...........except for my Mom who believed, as I did it would work............it DID NOT........nor did my praying for her in her last days........they are both gone......and really.........WHERE IS GOD?????????????

 

And.......the other people whom I thought received miracles.......were so very real at the time.........on man had a lump on his shoulder, he was a carpenter......could not raise his arm above his head......my sister brought him to me.......i prayed for him......with my hand on the lump........it WENT DOWN UNDER MY HAND...........he raised his arm above his head...........i obviosuly thot he was healed............weeks later my sister said he was still working as a carpenter and no signs of the lump came back........but, have no idea how he is today..........I guess i'm just a fool..........Patty, xx

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Deconversion is a BITCH.

 

This morning I woke up at 4 am and lay in bed for about 2 hours thinking of actually semi-embracing xianity again on some level, only because I was feeling really depressed. I knew I could never actually believe it is real ever again, but I could at least sing some songs when im at church with my still-believing wife and stuff like that to get some feel good vibes. And play the part to make her feel a little bit better and not feel so much disdain or whatever it is i feel when talking to people at church.

 

I know the feeling. I listen to Christian music sometimes because it makes me feel good.......right with the world.........my husband still believes, so I know your deliema. There are no easy answers. We can deny GOD......become a hyprocyte to our family............which would be the least harmful action.....or say outright that we don't believe anymore.........and am not going to church with you.....or have a discussion about GOD and faith.........which would undoubtly destroy some part of them...........yes, it is a BITCH...........for me.........the closer I get to UNBELIEF...........the more bold I get with my husband.......I have no control over his reactions.....only mine.........but, to be true to myself.......he will have to know......what he does from there is his choice.......I think he will love me anyway........and we will agree to disagree........but, if we were going to a church......which we aren't........I would stop going......he could get all the support he needs from other believers........but, in the end.......he would chose to love me..........maybe keep on going to church........believing........is ok with me...........we love each other......so, I hope nothing would seperate us............if this does.........so be it.........

ty for responding to me..........I wish you great luck...........and I'm sorry for the sleepless nites...........I have them all the time.......maybe we could talk here and cheer each other up? :) Patty xx

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That's one of the really sick sides about religion - the illusion of control makes the trauma all the worse when it's revealled to be nothing but illusion. If you think God saves some, then if he doesn't save 'your' person - it was a deliberate choice.

 

You helped people to feel better, you provided good wishes - but medicine and the body's natural healing abilities, or lack thereof, are what decides who lives and who dies.

 

Your mom was acting as if you were God - as if you chose who lived and who died. Ridiculous even if you do believe - a Christian would think that God chose, not you.

 

It wasn't quite that senister.........but...........i know I had NOTING to do with healing........I just thot God had chosen me to bring healing thru paryer. I loved the people I prayed for.........in person..........the hundreds of others.....that I didn't know......I still thot God would use me........so many were not healed.......that confused and depressed me........what was I DOING WRONG? Did i not pray hard enough...........or long enough...........I understand what you are saying..........but, you have to know that those of us who TRULY BELIEVED that GOD HAD CALLED US...........to pray.........we took all those thinghs very seriously............it was a gift, and a calling.........please don't try to diminish what I thought I was doing for the sick! It was a passion, and loved praying for people............

 

ty for resonding to me........Patty xx

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And.......the other people whom I thought received miracles.......were so very real at the time.........on man had a lump on his shoulder, he was a carpenter......could not raise his arm above his head......my sister brought him to me.......i prayed for him......with my hand on the lump........it WENT DOWN UNDER MY HAND...........he raised his arm above his head...........i obviosuly thot he was healed............weeks later my sister said he was still working as a carpenter and no signs of the lump came back........but, have no idea how he is today..........I guess i'm just a fool..........Patty, xx

 

That was Reiki. My wife and I do a lot of that. His muscle was probably knotted up. You helped it to release.

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And.......the other people whom I thought received miracles.......were so very real at the time.........on man had a lump on his shoulder, he was a carpenter......could not raise his arm above his head......my sister brought him to me.......i prayed for him......with my hand on the lump........it WENT DOWN UNDER MY HAND...........he raised his arm above his head...........i obviosuly thot he was healed............weeks later my sister said he was still working as a carpenter and no signs of the lump came back........but, have no idea how he is today..........I guess i'm just a fool..........Patty, xx

 

That was Reiki. My wife and I do a lot of that. His muscle was probably knotted up. You helped it to release.

 

ok ty xx

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ty..........the more I read.......and more importantly, the more I look back and ponder............i come to conclusions which I despise right now.......there cannot be a Loveinng GOD that would let my dad die after so much praer.......anointing him with "sacred oil".........day after day...........that was too cruel on all fronts...........except for my Mom who believed, as I did it would work............it DID NOT........nor did my praying for her in her last days........they are both gone......and really.........WHERE IS GOD?????????????

 

I am so sorry for all that you've been through. Losing your parents has to suck (I suspect that I'll most likely have to go through that in my lifetime as well, but as of yet both of my parents are still living). You probably have a lot of happy memories of them, so take comfort in those memories and use them to keep your parents alive in your heart.

 

About these losses and your previous mention of your mother blaming you for your father's passing, in my previous reply to that I should have also asked why she blamed you. What I mean is that if she was also praying for him to live, then why blame you for your prayers not working while ignoring the fact that her prayers didn't work either? Again, though, the whole thing is false guilt, because we all expire at some point (I don't mean that in a brash way, but simply as a fact of life).

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And.......the other people whom I thought received miracles.......were so very real at the time.........on man had a lump on his shoulder, he was a carpenter......could not raise his arm above his head......my sister brought him to me.......i prayed for him......with my hand on the lump........it WENT DOWN UNDER MY HAND...........he raised his arm above his head...........i obviosuly thot he was healed............weeks later my sister said he was still working as a carpenter and no signs of the lump came back........but, have no idea how he is today..........I guess i'm just a fool..........Patty, xx

 

You're not a fool at all. Have you heard of the placebo effect? It is a real phenomenon and no one really has an explanation for it. When new drugs are tested the early tests involve the actual drug being tested against an inert substance or placebo. Take something like a new medication which is hoped to reduce a person's blood pressure. The study subjects are divided into two groups, one group to receive the active drug and the other to receive placebo. The doctor administering the active drug or placebo does not know whether he/she is administering the active drug or placebo to a particular patient and none of the patients know whether they are receiving the active drug or placebo. During the period of the testing, blood pressure levels are measured for both groups as are adverse reactions. Invariably, lower blood pressures are recorded for a certain percentage of patients administered placebo and some of the patients administered placebo will also have "adverse reactions." It is only if enough testing demonstrates lower blood pressures in more patients administered the active drug than those administered placebo that there is a case to be made that the active drug has a real and demonstrable ability to lower blood pressure.

 

The point is that it is consistently demonstrated that there is something about some percentage of human beings that will cause a desired effect when there is no physical reason for that effect. That is called the placebo effect. And, contrary to what some people may think, it is not because the person who experiences the placebo effect is weak minded or anything like that. It is an unexplained phenomenon, but a real one nonetheless. I think that at least in some cases, when a person like the gentleman whose lump went down as a result of your prayer, that prayer causes the placebo effect. But that effect has nothing to do with god. Rather, it has to do with being a human being.

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Deconversion is a BITCH.

 

This morning I woke up at 4 am and lay in bed for about 2 hours thinking of actually semi-embracing xianity again on some level, only because I was feeling really depressed. I knew I could never actually believe it is real ever again, but I could at least sing some songs when im at church with my still-believing wife and stuff like that to get some feel good vibes. And play the part to make her feel a little bit better and not feel so much disdain or whatever it is i feel when talking to people at church.

 

I know the feeling. I listen to Christian music sometimes because it makes me feel good.......right with the world.........my husband still believes, so I know your deliema. There are no easy answers. We can deny GOD......become a hyprocyte to our family............which would be the least harmful action.....or say outright that we don't believe anymore.........and am not going to church with you.....or have a discussion about GOD and faith.........which would undoubtly destroy some part of them...........yes, it is a BITCH...........for me.........the closer I get to UNBELIEF...........the more bold I get with my husband.......I have no control over his reactions.....only mine.........but, to be true to myself.......he will have to know......what he does from there is his choice.......I think he will love me anyway........and we will agree to disagree........but, if we were going to a church......which we aren't........I would stop going......he could get all the support he needs from other believers........but, in the end.......he would chose to love me..........maybe keep on going to church........believing........is ok with me...........we love each other......so, I hope nothing would seperate us............if this does.........so be it.........

ty for responding to me..........I wish you great luck...........and I'm sorry for the sleepless nites...........I have them all the time.......maybe we could talk here and cheer each other up? :) Patty xx

 

I'd love to talk anytime you want. Just PM me!!

 

:)

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Deconversion is a BITCH.

 

This morning I woke up at 4 am and lay in bed for about 2 hours thinking of actually semi-embracing xianity again on some level, only because I was feeling really depressed. I knew I could never actually believe it is real ever again, but I could at least sing some songs when im at church with my still-believing wife and stuff like that to get some feel good vibes. And play the part to make her feel a little bit better and not feel so much disdain or whatever it is i feel when talking to people at church.

 

I know the feeling. I listen to Christian music sometimes because it makes me feel good.......right with the world.........my husband still believes, so I know your deliema. There are no easy answers. We can deny GOD......become a hyprocyte to our family............which would be the least harmful action.....or say outright that we don't believe anymore.........and am not going to church with you.....or have a discussion about GOD and faith.........which would undoubtly destroy some part of them...........yes, it is a BITCH...........for me.........the closer I get to UNBELIEF...........the more bold I get with my husband.......I have no control over his reactions.....only mine.........but, to be true to myself.......he will have to know......what he does from there is his choice.......I think he will love me anyway........and we will agree to disagree........but, if we were going to a church......which we aren't........I would stop going......he could get all the support he needs from other believers........but, in the end.......he would chose to love me..........maybe keep on going to church........believing........is ok with me...........we love each other......so, I hope nothing would seperate us............if this does.........so be it.........

ty for responding to me..........I wish you great luck...........and I'm sorry for the sleepless nites...........I have them all the time.......maybe we could talk here and cheer each other up? smile.png Patty xx

 

I'd love to talk anytime you want. Just PM me!!

 

smile.png

 

Have no idea what "PM me" means..........sounds kinky, but probably isn't :) I guess another techy thing :(

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It means send a private message :)

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  • Moderator

 

Have no idea what "PM me" means..........sounds kinky, but probably isn't smile.png I guess another techy thing sad.png

 

Click on his name or picture and then click "send me a message." When he replies you will see a number on the envelope for you to click on at the top right of the page.

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Yeah. Private message, or if you're kinky, "Play Mommy".

 

Sorry April. ;)

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It means send a private message smile.png

 

ty RedStar

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ty all for your responses..........as I've said before......my hubby doesn't like me going to this site.........this am he asked me to look at videos that debunk atheism...........i have listened to 6 hours so far.........am more confused than ever!!!

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Guest Valk0010

Christian video's like the baffle with bullshit so don't feel bad if your incredibly confused.

 

If there is anything particularly hard for you to understand, post it here.

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Christian video's like the baffle with bullshit so don't feel bad if your incredibly confused.

 

If there is anything particularly hard for you to understand, post it here.

 

Erwin Lutzer vs Rob Sherman............was 2 parts.....he totally did NOT debunk Christianity............he talks in rounds............why can''t he just debunk the Christian belief............i need to know that

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