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[Guest Valk0010]

He is talking about miracles.

[SusanStoHeli]

Remember - there's no deadlines here - no "Believe in atheism or else you'll go to atheist HELL!!!!!", no "Believe now before atheist god smites you!"

 

This is on your time, your own beliefs, whatever time you need to come to your decision about what YOU really believe to be the truth. It's your time. Look at videos - as it helps you. Take a time out if you need it and don't think about it for a month, if that'll help. There is no deadline here.

[TrueFreedom]

You tube search: "excavating the empty tomb" by Truth Surge. Its an almost infinitely long series, but there's SO MUCH info you need to know. You'll get hooked.

 

This is speculative, but a very interesting comparison of the gospel of Mark and Homer's Odyssey. The meat of it begins in part 5:

 

[London]

Sometimes the bright lights in our shiny new world can be too much all at once. It's ok to stay in the shade until you adjust.

 

Here are some more.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/

 

http://www.evilbible.com/

 

http://truth-saves.com/

 

 

Youtube

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/qualiasoup

and his brother

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheraminTrees

[mcdaddy]

You tube search: "excavating the empty tomb" by Truth Surge. Its an almost infinitely long series, but there's SO MUCH info you need to know. You'll get hooked.

 

This is speculative, but a very interesting comparison of the gospel of Mark and Homer's Odyssey. The meat of it begins in part 5:

 

 

Yeah I liked that one too. Like you said, I think it's a touch more speculative than the other series, but that doesn't mean it may not have a lot of truth to it.

[starlyte777]

Thanks again for your kind words to Mom and for the videos everyone.

 

Mom, here's a couple of good ones...a little more light-hearted but still really good info to think on.

 

 

This is a link to the playlist of Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" on my You Tube page. Just click "play all" and the videos will play in order.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=mh_lolz

 

 

 

And here's Seth Andrews (The Thinking Atheist) speaking at a conference in Oklahoma:

 

ty Ape............they were very good..........moving on to next.........and ty all for sending me videos.......as hard as they sometimes are to hear........i need to hear them........ty all so much for bringing me into your "fold" xx

[starlyte777]

You tube search: "excavating the empty tomb" by Truth Surge. Its an almost infinitely long series, but there's SO MUCH info you need to know. You'll get hooked.

ty .........will listen to this......with trepadation, i must say...........the familiar and comfortable is slipping away........and that does NOT feel good to me......I want so badly to believe in God......and JESUS........but, have read, heard, seen to much..........i HATE WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW!! I want it all to be good and loving..........arggggggg............ty tho..........the truth is the truth..........and I WILL find it if it destroys me in the process

[starlyte777]

Thank you Valk

ty Valk........what is the link to the empty tomb?

[Guest Valk0010]

Thank you Valk

ty Valk........what is the link to the empty tomb?

I don't know anything about the truthsurge video since i haven't watched it.

 

But if your wanting my thoughts on the empty tomb. I don't think jesus was buried in a tomb.

 

My reasoning for this is four fold. And I am in a hurry (got an appointment in about 15 minutes) so I will have to add sources to this later. I am also doing this from memory so I will have to double check.

 

From what I understand we haven't found a town called arimathea. In fact the name may even be a fact (it means in greek something to the effect of "god with us"). edit: I double checked its actually "best disciple town."

 

The tomb wasn't venerated and was only discovered supposedly in the 3rd century and there is a catholic and protestant one.

 

Jesus was tried as a criminal so he should have gotten a criminals burial. A tomb burial would have likely not happened.

 

The original ending of mark implies that the tomb is a later edition.

 

Also according to some scholars, a tomb of the kind that would have been given to jesus, would not have had a round entrance cover.

 

Also, Paul in 1 Cor 15, when trying to reconvince the people there of the resurrection doesn't mention nor really imply the empty tomb. The empty tomb is a great apologetic now as it would have likely been then. So the only reason one could say that paul didn't mention it is that paul didn't know about it. That is a arguement from silence, which normally doesn't work. But in this case it does because by all rights paul should have known about it.

 

Sources

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/peter_kirby/tomb/rebuttal1.html

 

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/notomb.html

 

http://www.infidels.org/kiosk/book1042.html

[Kaiser01]

 

Every new EX-Christian deserves to see this.

[Kaiser01]

 

Here is another, at the beginning he will say he has a problem with evolution and the big bang. He never specifies what the problem is in the video but the problem is that they are Incredible. Just to clarify.

[mcdaddy]

You tube search: "excavating the empty tomb" by Truth Surge. Its an almost infinitely long series, but there's SO MUCH info you need to know. You'll get hooked.

I WILL find it if it destroys me in the process

 

This is the meaning of life.

 

"Godspeed"

[mcdaddy]

Thank you Valk

ty Valk........what is the link to the empty tomb?

 

Just go to YouTube, search "excavating the empty tomb part 1"

[starlyte777]

 

Here is another, at the beginning he will say he has a problem with evolution and the big bang. He never specifies what the problem is in the video but the problem is that they are Incredible. Just to clarify.

ty valk'......have seen many videos.....one leads to another.......and, although it breaks my heart because of my beliefs........I HAVE to see more....ty for incliding me xx

[starlyte777]

 

Here is another, at the beginning he will say he has a problem with evolution and the big bang. He never specifies what the problem is in the video but the problem is that they are Incredible. Just to clarify.

ty valk'......have seen many videos.....one leads to another.......and, although it breaks my heart because of my beliefs........I HAVE to see more....ty for incliding me xx

that was excellent..........have watched the empty tomb series as well.......am shaken by what I saw......but, there is no denying facts...argggggg

i wish I could.......my comfort zone has crumpled............and i dont like it.........just sayin..........ty Valk xx

[starlyte777]

ty susan............don't know how to find your answer,,,,,,,,,,,,did i metion i am a techy dork?

what you said ......maybe need time off.......will consider that.......have taken some time off.......but my hunger for truth drives me! ty susan xx

[starlyte777]

ty susan............don't know how to find your answer,,,,,,,,,,,,did i metion i am a techy dork?

what you said ......maybe need time off.......will consider that.......have taken some time off.......but my hunger for truth drives me! ty susan xx

 

ty true freedon.......i still haven't figured out to respond to individual emails..............dumb alert!!!!!! ty for your vidio suggestion..........am on it xx

[Kaiser01]

 

Here is another, at the beginning he will say he has a problem with evolution and the big bang. He never specifies what the problem is in the video but the problem is that they are Incredible. Just to clarify.

ty valk'......have seen many videos.....one leads to another.......and, although it breaks my heart because of my beliefs........I HAVE to see more....ty for incliding me xx

that was excellent..........have watched the empty tomb series as well.......am shaken by what I saw......but, there is no denying facts...argggggg

i wish I could.......my comfort zone has crumpled............and i dont like it.........just sayin..........ty Valk xx

 

Valk didn't post that, I did. But no worries.

[TrueFreedom]

The links I posted for potholer debunks and evid3nc3 were both channels w many videos. Purplfox is a favorite who participates here, but I haven't been able to find his vids lately.

[★ Citsonga ★]

my son is jjbue and daughter is 2honest.......have been wrestling with the whole faith vs atheist for months.......need help with the whole family thing..........and should I even be here.......I vasilate from believing and not believing........took a tumble recently.....cried out for Jesus.........does that mean I still believe? Or does it mean I'm so confused I only cry out for a higher being when I'm in trouble.....does that make me a hyprocrite? I hate hyprocites.....so hope I'm not one.

 

Trying to figure out what is true does not make you a hypocrite. In fact, those who pretend to know something that they really don't know are the hypocrites.

 

Your struggle with this issue implies to me that you're an honest, sensitive person who doesn't want to be duped. You're on the right path, a journey of inquiry into what is real. Most of us on this board have been through a similar situation, so we can identify on some level, as you have seen throughout the thread.

 

Everyone is different, of course, and our differences will affect what aspects of our journey are the most significant. For myself, it was the cold, hard fact that the Bible is nothing more than an internally inconsistent collection of writings from ancient ignorant, superstitious people that made me realize that the Bible is not the "Word of God" that Christians claim it is. After seeing inconsistencies that I had been told don't exist, I tried to boost my faith by studying the christological prophecies more closely, only to come to realize that the New Testament repeatedly takes Old Testament quotes (often alterations) completely out of context, thus indicating that the allegedly fulfilled prophecies were fabricated. What person with a true story to tell would need to stoop to such underhanded tactics? I realized right then and there that Christianity is mythology, and from then on out I began to realize a lot of other problems with the basic "logic" of the religion that my indoctrinated mind hadn't previously picked up on.

 

While that was difficult for me, it was easy compared to how I would deal with my new understanding in the world around me. All my closest family and friends were/are Christians, and I had built my whole life around Christianity. Suddenly I felt like the ground had been yanked out from under me and I was in a freefall, with no place to get a foothold. How could I deal with knowing that Christians would make the same false assumptions about me that I had previously made about people leaving the faith? My simple honesty in truth-seeking would be viewed by many as rebellion, even though it was nothing of the sort.

 

For me, it just took time.... Time to get comfortable with a new worldview, time to mostly get past the initial frustration of realizing I'd been lied to all my life (not intentionally, of course, since those who "nurtured" me believed what they taught me), time to make new friends that shared my newfound skepticism and deep regard for critical thinking, time to just "let it be," as the Beatles said.

 

Your path will be different from mine, yet I think that there is a very, very good chance that there's a light at the end of your tunnel. Be true to yourself, and things will work themselves out. As a double-bonus, you have great children who will undoubtedly be there for you. Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

[★ Citsonga ★]

The links I posted for potholer debunks and evid3nc3 were both channels w many videos.

 

Indeed, Evid3nc3 has a great deconversion series that starts here:

 

I would say that I am actually an exception to the rule that he presents there, because for me it really was just finding out that the Bible isn't true that destroyed my faith. However, I suspect that Evid3nc3's representation of multiple pillars having to be destroyed for faith to collapse is probably true for most believers.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Here are two of my favorite YouTube videos, which I hope can be helpful in working through what is real and what is absurd.

 

God's Checklist 2.0

 

What Would Jesus NOT Do?

[★ Citsonga ★]

And another thing. Call it recommended reading.

 

I am currently reading a book called: My Path to Atheism by Annie Wood Besant. The first section talks about the gospels and how there is no way that the gospels as presented in every bible you see could prove that Jesus was the son of god. It might help, your bible might be true problem.

 

I agree that the Bible is a true problem. Studying the Bible is what destroyed my faith, but that took a long time. I actually studied it for years before I started doubting, due to the extreme level of indoctrination that I had received.

 

"My Path to Atheism" sounded like an interesting book that I may want to read. I looked on Amazon, and since they have the option to read a few pages from it, I thought I would check it out first. As early as the top of the second page, though, she uses a flimsy argument. Here is the quote that bugged me:

 

His own assertions of his divinity are to be found only in the unreliable fourth gospel, and in it they are destroyed by the sentence there put into his mouth with strange inconsistency: "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

 

The quotation of Jesus is from John 5:31, but it seems most logical to me to understand this as referring to how it's often difficult to take one person's word as truth. He's not saying that bearing witness of himself means he's lying, but that one person's witness of himself would not be enough to establish truth. In other words, it's more a matter of the public's perception than the accuracy of his claims about himself. He then goes on in the next few verses to say that John (the Baptist) and the Father also bear witness. Interestingly, Deuteronomy 17:6 called for two or three witnesses.

 

That does not make the Bible true, of course, but it's still important, because I think we should try to avoid using such weak arguments. Christians already think that atheists don't know what they're talking about, and stuff like this only serves to confirm that in their minds. The Bible has a ton of problems, so there are plenty of much better arguments to demonstrate that the Bible is self-defeating. Hopefully the remainder of Annie's book is better.

[London]

God's Checklist 2.0

 

 

That is Scott Clifton, he is a emmy award winning soap opera actor and he is gay.

[★ Citsonga ★]

That is Scott Clifton, he is a emmy award winning soap opera actor and he is gay.

 

I knew he was a soap opera actor, but I didn't know he was gay. It doesn't matter either way to me anyway, not only because I don't care whether he's gay or straight, but also because the argument stands on its own merits.