Guest Valk0010 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I think it says something about religion and the existence of god, when you find, it only makes more suffering between families. "I can't see you cause you don't believe as I do." If there is a god, who is actually loving, there is no way that could be loving. Conditional love isn't love, its the kind of love you get in a sour bad abusive relationship. The love of the bible god is totally conditional. i know......and yet...........it seems to be safe to me right now............this is harder than i thot it would be........i NEED my whole family.........have always been the one.........in earlier years..........to keep us all together..........then when both my parents died .......I have felt like an orphan.......leaned on GOD as my FATHER.........didn't help that much..............this is so freakin hard for me!!!!!!!!!!! I went to bed last nite and prayed for forgiveness....repented for thinking God isnn't real..........i was up until 5 am........with 2 of my precious grand daughters in another.......room...totally believing in God......as far as I know...........my heart hurts.........I HURT............besides the physical broken bones and stuff waiting to be healed..........I HURT ALL OVER............I want to be the good MOM.......the good GRAMMA...........the good Great Gramma........the good GREAT AUNT.................dang i just want to be the GREAT EVERYTHING...............have strived for that all my life...........is that really too much to ask of a woman? i have never thought so. So you know.......have been drinking wine today..........so I tend to be more emotional......another fault i need forgiveness for.........it never ends, really...I can't keep up with those religious balancing scalres........and i am hurting my husband in the process..........so.......what does that make me? A selfigh bitch I think..................nothing else seems to fit..........forgive my rambling.......again........hope my kids don't see this..........but, those of you who do.........I have read your encourangong words.........I don 't know what is wrong with me.........except that I can't seem to let go of an abusive God.......as I couldn't let go of my abusive Father......when will this ever end? I hurt phyysically now.........so will go........and my heart hurts for those who won't talk to me.......and my mind hurts because the spinning just does NOT STOP.......i know how to make it stop............ http://www.infidels....m_agnostic.html Might be some consoling reading, seem that guy had the same sort of problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Star, probly the best thing for you IMO right now is just to take the middle ground. If your family is too christarded to love you unconditionally, just tell em you think you believe, but just have questions that he hasn't answered for you yet. Or some other vague language that makes them feel all gooey. You have to look at those under the Jesus spell like you would those with a disease- often its not completely their fault. Feel pity for their blindness, but love them anyway. Sure, someone who does this approach is less than honest. But, sometimes you just have to met people where they're at. I'm ready for the verbal ass kicking now guys. Be gentle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I feel late to this thread! You are in a very unique situation due to the fact that you have a family that you KNOW will be able to support you through these hard times because they have been through the very same thing themselves. It will take awhile for you to stop feeling the immense guilt that's been drilled into you by Christianity. For most of us, when that guilt and fear of Hell is over, the only remaining problem is the issue of revealing our unbelief to our family and friends. The very fact that you have people who will still accept you and not proselytize to you or tell you you're going to Hell is a HUGE advantage over what most of us have. The best way I've found to deal with indecision and that whole "Well, what if I'm wrong" (what we call "Pascal's Wager") thing is to be informed. There are tons of sources people here can point you to if you want information on history, scripture, etc. The best thing is that we have this site where we can get the support we need and advice. I'm not sure how far along you are with your deconversion, but I'd like to say that the video series I'm about to post helped me immensely: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/why-i-am-no-longer-a-christian/ There is going to be a lot of anxiety and depression you'll feel now and down the road and your family will help you some, but there are other things that may help deal with it. For me, it was a mixture of meditation, having a pet (taking care of him helps not only keep my mind off of negative things, but also just makes me genuinely happy), some prescribed medications, being on this site, sunlight, finding a hobby and light exercise. And I know you've heard this already but you have an amazing family. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Star, probly the best thing for you IMO right now is just to take the middle ground. If your family is too christarded to love you unconditionally, just tell em you think you believe, but just have questions that he hasn't answered for you yet. Or some other vague language that makes them feel all gooey. You have to look at those under the Jesus spell like you would those with a disease- often its not completely their fault. Feel pity for their blindness, but love them anyway. Sure, someone who does this approach is less than honest. But, sometimes you just have to met people where they're at. I'm ready for the verbal ass kicking now guys. Be gentle. I assume you aren't expecting me to kick your ass........as for what you said.......that is the "hypocritical" road I am taking..........just saying I'm not sure what I believe........and that's kinda true............does that make me an agnostic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted August 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2012 Star, probly the best thing for you IMO right now is just to take the middle ground. If your family is too christarded to love you unconditionally, just tell em you think you believe, but just have questions that he hasn't answered for you yet. Or some other vague language that makes them feel all gooey. You have to look at those under the Jesus spell like you would those with a disease- often its not completely their fault. Feel pity for their blindness, but love them anyway. Sure, someone who does this approach is less than honest. But, sometimes you just have to met people where they're at. I'm ready for the verbal ass kicking now guys. Be gentle. I assume you aren't expecting me to kick your ass........as for what you said.......that is the "hypocritical" road I am taking..........just saying I'm not sure what I believe........and that's kinda true............does that make me an agnostic? That might make you a believer who has doubts or a weak agnostic (referring to the term, not your own personal strength). A strong agnostic does not believe that anyone can possibly know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Star, probly the best thing for you IMO right now is just to take the middle ground. If your family is too christarded to love you unconditionally, just tell em you think you believe, but just have questions that he hasn't answered for you yet. Or some other vague language that makes them feel all gooey. You have to look at those under the Jesus spell like you would those with a disease- often its not completely their fault. Feel pity for their blindness, but love them anyway. Sure, someone who does this approach is less than honest. But, sometimes you just have to met people where they're at. I'm ready for the verbal ass kicking now guys. Be gentle. I assume you aren't expecting me to kick your ass........as for what you said.......that is the "hypocritical" road I am taking..........just saying I'm not sure what I believe........and that's kinda true............does that make me an agnostic? Hey Starlyte You don't have to work everything out tonight. Or have it worked out tomorrow. Nor next week, next month, or next year. Just take your time, and follow the evidence. It took me two years to deconvert. Two years of questions and doubts and then suddenly, one weekend at the end of October, it all came together in my mind. Everything just clicked. And just like that, my faith was gone. But it took me two years to reach that point. And if you speak to 2H and J, they will probably both tell you that it took some time for them, too. Losing faith is not a decision we make; the only decision we actually make is to be honest with ourselves and just follow the evidence. We decide to try and find the answers to our questions. I never actually planned to end up here. But the second part of Philippians 2:12 really stuck with me: "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." I felt that god was telling me to question and find the answers, and when I sat and thought about how many different sects of christianity there were, I decided to find the truth. How did I know that I was right? How did I know that I was in the right theology that truly represented god? I felt that that verse was telling me not to blindly believe what I was told, but to work it out for myself, to seek the truth. Jesus had said "seek and you shall find; knock and the door will be opened unto you", so I decided to take him up on that. In the end, though, I discovered that it was all a load of crap. Instead of finding god and drawing closer to him, I ended up an atheist. God failed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Star, probly the best thing for you IMO right now is just to take the middle ground. If your family is too christarded to love you unconditionally, just tell em you think you believe, but just have questions that he hasn't answered for you yet. Or some other vague language that makes them feel all gooey. You have to look at those under the Jesus spell like you would those with a disease- often its not completely their fault. Feel pity for their blindness, but love them anyway. Sure, someone who does this approach is less than honest. But, sometimes you just have to met people where they're at. I'm ready for the verbal ass kicking now guys. Be gentle. I assume you aren't expecting me to kick your ass........as for what you said.......that is the "hypocritical" road I am taking..........just saying I'm not sure what I believe........and that's kinda true............does that make me an agnostic? Not you, Star. Just figured some on here would go at me for telling you to "live a lie" to some extent. I just think life's to short to burn all bridges by being an outspoken nonbeliever, which, well you aren't even anywhere close to that yet from what you've said. I've had some times where my friends still use god language around me and I'm like "ok I know I told you I don't believe in that, why are you acting like I didn't!??". but while sometimes I'm more open about it, there are times I think I've said too much and alienated friends and family. So it's a fine line. I can't really respect the belief for many reasons. But I can bite my tongue and just try to get along. I'm te type that i want to know if I'm believing something in error. I just wish more people were like me, but by % not many are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 Ask them to show you their fruit. If they were a "true Christian" they would love you regardless. i guess i need more time........plz send me links to watch/read...........am more confused than before........ty all for your support........it means so much to me! I won't be back until i read more.......hear more..........send your best sources........i will look at them..........luv u all............ty xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 What Price says here if very important to the whole, biblical miracles arguement. Apologists basically write there own rules of how to do historical research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I often get letters, quite frequently, from people who say how they like the programmes a lot, but I never give credit to the almighty power that created nature. To which I reply and say, "Well, it's funny that the people, when they say that this is evidence of the Almighty, always quote beautiful things. They always quote orchids and hummingbirds and butterflies and roses." But I always have to think too of a little boy sitting on the banks of a river in west Africa who has a worm boring through his eyeball, turning him blind before he's five years old. And I reply and say, "Well, presumably the God you speak about created the worm as well," and now, I find that baffling to credit a merciful God with that action. And therefore it seems to me safer to show things that I know to be truth, truthful and factual, and allow people to make up their own minds about the moralities of this thing, or indeed the theology of this thing. Sir David Attenborough http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Attenborough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Thank you Valk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zi699WzAL0 That helped me feel alot better about doubting and the whole process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Thanks again for your kind words to Mom and for the videos everyone. Mom, here's a couple of good ones...a little more light-hearted but still really good info to think on. This is a link to the playlist of Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" on my You Tube page. Just click "play all" and the videos will play in order. http://www.youtube.c...feature=mh_lolz And here's Seth Andrews (The Thinking Atheist) speaking at a conference in Oklahoma: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I've got one to add! Richard Dawkins on the Ten Commandments! A light-hearted look 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 You tube search: "excavating the empty tomb" by Truth Surge. Its an almost infinitely long series, but there's SO MUCH info you need to know. You'll get hooked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 I am so bawling right now.........have watched the 2 parter.......and the last one..........ty for sending........I am at a crossroads......I know that..........my NEED to believe in God...........and the overwhelming evidence that he is NOT.............argggggggggg...........wish i had a vailum......lol......but, i have my crutch.....wine........am sorry for being so weak yall...........but.............have believed for 45 years.............this is very hard for me...........but, I will continue to listen to all the other things yall have sent me, and ty...........xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 I am so bawling right now.........have watched the 2 parter.......and the last one..........ty for sending........I am at a crossroads......I know that..........my NEED to believe in God...........and the overwhelming evidence that he is NOT.............argggggggggg...........wish i had a vailum......lol......but, i have my crutch.....wine........am sorry for being so weak yall...........but.............have believed for 45 years.............this is very hard for me...........but, I will continue to listen to all the other things yall have sent me, and ty...........xx listened to William Craig.......brilliant.......i have seen what I believed were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlyte777 Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 I am so bawling right now.........have watched the 2 parter.......and the last one..........ty for sending........I am at a crossroads......I know that..........my NEED to believe in God...........and the overwhelming evidence that he is NOT.............argggggggggg...........wish i had a vailum......lol......but, i have my crutch.....wine........am sorry for being so weak yall...........but.............have believed for 45 years.............this is very hard for me...........but, I will continue to listen to all the other things yall have sent me, and ty...........xx listened to William Craig.......brilliant.......i have seen what I believed were "miracles" in my own home.......is hard to get past that......ty for the links, listened to them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted August 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2012 I really enjoy these youtube channels: http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54debunks http://www.youtube.com/user/evid3nc3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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