Why Did God Tempt Eve?

[PandaPirate]

A common question in Theology is, "Why did God tempt Eve if he knew she would lead Adam, and ultimately, the entire human race, to original sin? Why did he doom some people to eternal damnation? Well, Buddha answered that question completely.

 

"All life is suffering."

"We are reincarnated until Karma is complete."

"Life is Maya, or illusion."

 

If life is an illusion, then so is our suffering.

Hell is not a real, physical place, but instead a place in the mind or the heart during this lifetime and we are infinitely reborn until we complete our Karma (but then, that really isn't infinity, because it's an illusion as well.)

since it is a doctrine of Saint Augustine, not the original theology of the Bible.

If life is an illusion, then so are the concepts within it, and so is Theology.

Illusions tend to be in the same framework of dreams, in that our illusions make sense while we are in the dream.

Therefore, the illusion would make sense while we are experiencing it.

Our human logic, is flawed, because we are experiencing an illusion, according to Buddhist Philosophy, and therefore is in line with the Biblical Scripture that says,

 

 

New International Version (©1984)

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

New Living Translation (©2007)

"My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts," says the LORD. "And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.

English Standard Version (©2001)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

"My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways," declares the LORD.

 

I conclude that Buddhist philosophy is incorrect.

 

(I wasn't sure if this should go in Ex-Christian Spirituality or Theology, so I posted in both.)

[Guest Valk0010]

Assuming what your saying is correct, it would mean some combo of followings things would be correct.

 

We should all be consider ourselves damned by just existing, and resign ourselves to torment.

 

If we are experiencing a illusion, we have no way of knowing what is really true. Therefore everything becomes meaningless and without need.

 

If we are expected to believe things without evidence or reason to believe in it, then we are asked to be victims of error.

[PandaPirate]

I think I've come to the conclusion that possibly all religion is incorrect, because of my Intro to Religion class (which is mandatory for a degree at The University of West Florida where I'm studying Anthropology and Communication Arts.)

 

The craziest religion we've studied so far is Sikhism, which blends Hinduism and Muslim religions.

 

Interestingly enough, Christianity blends a lot of Hindiusm religion into its religion, such as the Virgin Birth and the Holy Trinity and Krishna.) In the story of Krishna the deity is the agent of conception and also the offspring. Because of his sympathy for the earth, the divine Vishnu himself descended into the womb of Devaki and was born as her son, Vaasudeva (i.e., Krishna).

 

I really find it hard to discard my belief in Christ, simply because it is comfortable. Now, what I grew up believing is, biologically what the human race thrive on- things that make us comfortable. We have evolved to make things that make our lives easier (such as tools, books and even philosophy and religion, which are essentially the same thing.) Our Intro to Religion course is headed under the topic of PHILOSOPHY at UWF.

[Eugene39]

I think I've come to the conclusion that possibly all religion is incorrect....

 

As a general rule, I agree with your statement. There are some myths within certain religions that resonate with me, but for religion to answer all my questions about life, morality, etc? No.

[par4dcourse]

Why did god tempt Eve?

God wanted to start a "he-man wimmin' haters club" with Adam but Adam sided with his new found nookie.

[florduh]

 

 

Why Did God Tempt Eve?

 

 

 

 

To provide a reason for a religion to exist.

 

All religions look at the way things are and then try to 'reverse engineer' to some magical cause for it all. We seem to have a difficult time accepting our random universe. We need to have answers, and if we can't discover those, we make them up. We feel that since there is no justice in life, there must be justice after life. Whatever.

[Carolorado]

As usual, in the Bible and many religions, men aren't responsible for bad stuff, it is the woman's fault because she was attractive to the male. That is why women are forced into Burkas, but plenty of fundamentalist churches do the same thing. My heart breaks everytime I see (here) fundamentalist Mormons in their prairie wear. Keep their women blah and no man will take them. I want so much to tell those women about how to find a safe shelter and get out. But I know they will have to seek help themselves to get out, being in that cult is all they know.

 

One of my many huge grievances against the church is the treatment of women. I feel this is an age old property thing more than anything along with the church/bible writers thinking men cannot control their sexual urges and feel it is ok to rape women because they are property.

 

Yet, women lose. I do have more respect for churches that accept women as equals; but their Bible still doesn't approve.

[PandaPirate]

Nice, Par4dcourse. Real nice.

[PandaPirate]

 

 

Why Did God Tempt Eve?

 

 

 

 

To provide a reason for a religion to exist.

 

All religions look at the way things are and then try to 'reverse engineer' to some magical cause for it all. We seem to have a difficult time accepting our random universe. We need to have answers, and if we can't discover those, we make them up. We feel that since there is no justice in life, there must be justice after life. Whatever.

 

I like Stephen Hawking's explanation better.

[Kaiser01]

The tree of life is the same way, it was put there with the knowledge that it would cause the human race to fail. God gave man sin no matter how you chop it.

[Denyoz]

"Why did God tempt Eve?"

 

God only told them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Probably because this knowledge would make them religious. And it did. The whole bible is the story of mankind's obsession with good and evil. God doesn't want us to worry about that. He was right on that one. Orginial sin is only the consequence of knowing the difference between good and evil. If we didn't have this knowledge, there wouldn't be any sin. It's our choice really.

[Carolorado]

 

.

"Why did God tempt Eve?"

 

God only told them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Probably because this knowledge would make them religious. And it did. The whole bible is the story of mankind's obsession with good and evil. God doesn't want us to worry about that. He was right on that one. Orginial sin is only the consequence of knowing the difference between good and evil. If we didn't have this knowledge, there wouldn't be any sin. It's our choice really.

 

I think you, pardon the pun, nailed it. This is related to the Texas religious nuts insisting that 'we don't need no stinking critical thinking.' The knowledge from the tree was only to be given to who god wanted to have it. Just like education now in Tx, as proposed: You can only think what we religious leaders say you can think or god is gonna kick you out of Eden, aka heaven.

[Guest Valk0010]

"Why did God tempt Eve?"

 

God only told them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Probably because this knowledge would make them religious. And it did. The whole bible is the story of mankind's obsession with good and evil. God doesn't want us to worry about that. He was right on that one. Orginial sin is only the consequence of knowing the difference between good and evil. If we didn't have this knowledge, there wouldn't be any sin. It's our choice really.

So, say your a video gamer, and you press a button, to kill another character in the game. Is it you killing the character or the character. Its you. We are the video game characters and god is the video gamer.

 

Another way to look at it, is a analogy one could make to the movie saw. Is it the people being tested that are responsible for murder or maiming or is the person who created the test(Jigsaw). God would be Jigsaw. You could say in that case, well the people could have just allowed themselves to die or be maimed to save others, BUUUUT, that still doesn't take responsibility off of the person who started the test.

 

If god created us, knowing we were possibly or going to fail, then he is responsible. There is no reason he could not have just not created us if this was the best he could do. And from what i understand from the bible, its god created us for his pleasure. So no real requirement.

 

So no it isn't our choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says give me money or I am going to shoot you. That isn't choice. And anyway what happened to the idea of the sins of the father are not payed by the son. We don't charge stalin's kids for war crimes, why do we get charged for a state of existence that wasn't our choice, it was Adam and Eve's. None of us after the supposed adam and eve choose to be sinners. Its not are fault we have the divine equivalent to schizophrenia. Again no choice involved.

[PandaPirate]

"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of his own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time. "

 

Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"

[OpheliaGinger]

"Why did God tempt Eve?"

 

God only told them not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Probably because this knowledge would make them religious. And it did. The whole bible is the story of mankind's obsession with good and evil. God doesn't want us to worry about that. He was right on that one. Orginial sin is only the consequence of knowing the difference between good and evil. If we didn't have this knowledge, there wouldn't be any sin. It's our choice really.

 

I don't think it was necessarily saying that knowledge made on religious but that they were against knowledge, period. Seeking out an answer other than, "God did it," made one less religious.

[Denyoz]

So no it isn't our choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says give me money or I am going to shoot you. That isn't choice. And anyway what happened to the idea of the sins of the father are not payed by the son. We don't charge stalin's kids for war crimes, why do we get charged for a state of existence that wasn't our choice, it was Adam and Eve's. None of us after the supposed adam and eve choose to be sinners. Its not are fault we have the divine equivalent to schizophrenia. Again no choice involved.

 

I think each one of us has this choice today: whether or not to assign a moral judgment to our own actions. If you choose to assign a moral judgment to what is good and what is evil, you create duality within yourself. You create "sin" within yourself, by judging your own actions. Sin is just the violation of a moral law, or simply "an error". Who are you to know whether or not your action is bad? You don't know, and you don't need to know. Just do what your instinct tells you to do and you'll be OK. Forget the rest of the bible. In the beginning, there was no law, so it was impossible to break the law, and maybe the Creator (and each one of us) wanted it to stay that way.

 

With the knowledge of good and evil, we create laws, we create the opportunity to break the law, we create sin. Why would we want to do that? In reality, there is no difference between good and evil, it's a human invention, a fabrication, something we do with our minds.

 

You can free your mind right now, just by forgetting everything you know about the "knowledge of good and evil". This is the real redemption, or salvation. Simply put: WE ARE NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING! This is the good news. This is the "message" we are supposed to get from the bible. The same message comes from our own instinct.

[TrueFreedom]

This is the "message" we are supposed to get from the bible.

Hi Deny. Did you arrive at this conclusion via a postmodern hermeneutic?

 

It is an interesting perspective on the Garden of Eden story, but I don't think canonical authors intended to communicate this guiltlessness as their central message from God. Most books of the Bible go on and on about how guilty everybody is. "Repent!"

[Guest Valk0010]

So no it isn't our choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says give me money or I am going to shoot you. That isn't choice. And anyway what happened to the idea of the sins of the father are not payed by the son. We don't charge stalin's kids for war crimes, why do we get charged for a state of existence that wasn't our choice, it was Adam and Eve's. None of us after the supposed adam and eve choose to be sinners. Its not are fault we have the divine equivalent to schizophrenia. Again no choice involved.

 

I think each one of us has this choice today: whether or not to assign a moral judgment to our own actions. If you choose to assign a moral judgment to what is good and what is evil, you create duality within yourself. You create "sin" within yourself, by judging your own actions. Sin is just the violation of a moral law, or simply "an error". Who are you to know whether or not your action is bad? You don't know, and you don't need to know. Just do what your instinct tells you to do and you'll be OK. Forget the rest of the bible. In the beginning, there was no law, so it was impossible to break the law, and maybe the Creator (and each one of us) wanted it to stay that way.

 

With the knowledge of good and evil, we create laws, we create the opportunity to break the law, we create sin. Why would we want to do that? In reality, there is no difference between good and evil, it's a human invention, a fabrication, something we do with our minds.

 

You can free your mind right now, just by forgetting everything you know about the "knowledge of good and evil". This is the real redemption, or salvation. Simply put: WE ARE NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING! This is the good news. This is the "message" we are supposed to get from the bible. The same message comes from our own instinct.

Well since your taking the story as a metaphor and not within the xtian paradigm my criticism doesn't work.

[Denyoz]

This is the "message" we are supposed to get from the bible.

Hi Deny. Did you arrive at this conclusion via a postmodern hermeneutic?

 

It is an interesting perspective on the Garden of Eden story, but I don't think canonical authors intended to communicate this guiltlessness as their central message from God. Most books of the Bible go on and on about how guilty everybody is. "Repent!"

 

I'm not sure what you mean by postmodern hermeneutic, I arrived at this conclusion by myself, because it's the only interpretation that makes sense to me. My catholic background probably influenced my thinking, since we are taught never to take the bible literally. All the stories of the bible are meant to explain what goes on in our own minds. They personify the spiritual struggle that most of us go through during our lives.

 

Yes, guilt does exist, and the whole bible talks about it, how god (your higher self) deals with man (your ego). Your ego wants to be perfect (like god), asks for laws, tries to obey them, can't do it, feels guiltly, but then god sends his son (message from your higher self to your ego) telling you that you are forgiven! So you feel whole again, but then you want to be perfect, and the whole cycle starts again. And it's all because we insist on knowing the difference between good and evil. Animals don't worry about this, they just follow their instinct and they are doing fine, until men came along and started killing them because we thought we were better. Our society is built on the knowledge of good and evil, that's why it sucks. We are doing it all wrong. We were created to follow our instincts, not our man-made laws. We are taught to believe that the human instinct is bad, and that we need laws to function properly, which is false.

 

But the guys in power don't want you to know this.

[PandaPirate]

So no it isn't our choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says give me money or I am going to shoot you. That isn't choice. And anyway what happened to the idea of the sins of the father are not payed by the son. We don't charge stalin's kids for war crimes, why do we get charged for a state of existence that wasn't our choice, it was Adam and Eve's. None of us after the supposed adam and eve choose to be sinners. Its not are fault we have the divine equivalent to schizophrenia. Again no choice involved.

 

I think each one of us has this choice today: whether or not to assign a moral judgment to our own actions. If you choose to assign a moral judgment to what is good and what is evil, you create duality within yourself. You create "sin" within yourself, by judging your own actions. Sin is just the violation of a moral law, or simply "an error". Who are you to know whether or not your action is bad? You don't know, and you don't need to know. Just do what your instinct tells you to do and you'll be OK. Forget the rest of the bible. In the beginning, there was no law, so it was impossible to break the law, and maybe the Creator (and each one of us) wanted it to stay that way.

 

With the knowledge of good and evil, we create laws, we create the opportunity to break the law, we create sin. Why would we want to do that? In reality, there is no difference between good and evil, it's a human invention, a fabrication, something we do with our minds.

 

You can free your mind right now, just by forgetting everything you know about the "knowledge of good and evil". This is the real redemption, or salvation. Simply put: WE ARE NOT GUILTY OF ANYTHING! This is the good news. This is the "message" we are supposed to get from the bible. The same message comes from our own instinct.

 

By that logic anyone could do evil (such as the Dark Knight Rises shooting this past weekend) and justify it by saying, "There is no such thing as duality." Could you imagine going into court saying that?

[PandaPirate]

Well since your taking the story as a metaphor and not within the xtian paradigm my criticism doesn't work.

 

I hate to break it all to you guys, but taking an actual college level course in the Philosophy of Religion and taking a look at ALL religions, we learn unbiased information about every major religion in the world. One thing I learned that no one ever teaches you is that the Jews wrote Genesis as poetry and it was only later that people started interpreting literally. In the same vein, hell was never an actual "Christian" concept until Saint Augustine made it up and then the church just "went with it" from there.

[PandaPirate]

until men came along and started killing them because we thought we were better.

 

I think men starting killing animals because they were hungry.

[PandaPirate]

Assuming what your saying is correct, it would mean some combo of followings things would be correct.

 

We should all be consider ourselves damned by just existing, and resign ourselves to torment.

 

If we are experiencing a illusion, we have no way of knowing what is really true. Therefore everything becomes meaningless and without need.

 

If we are expected to believe things without evidence or reason to believe in it, then we are asked to be victims of error.

 

And who says you should believe ANYTHING?

 

I say, believe in nothing.

[TrueFreedom]

I think most of us assume that people were not the first animals to kill and eat other animals...

[Guest Valk0010]

Well since your taking the story as a metaphor and not within the xtian paradigm my criticism doesn't work.

 

I hate to break it all to you guys, but taking an actual college level course in the Philosophy of Religion and taking a look at ALL religions, we learn unbiased information about every major religion in the world. One thing I learned that no one ever teaches you is that the Jews wrote Genesis as poetry and it was only later that people started interpreting literally. In the same vein, hell was never an actual "Christian" concept until Saint Augustine made it up and then the church just "went with it" from there.

Sorry appeal to authority doesn't work. There is a reason they say question authority.

 

But if we are going by(wrongly because its fallacious to do as you just did), what would be said in high level college courses, then your history department if they have any expertise in bible scholarship would say that Paul referred to Jesus as the second Adam. That comment would be a nonsense statement if genesis was just poetry. Why would a real man be furfilling the sin of a mythical man? Why not say, like the NT does alot, that jesus just saved us from sin? Genesis becomes a contradiction if viewed as poetry. And if we are going again by what is commonly understood by bible scholars. Paul was a Pharisee trained by Gamaliel. And paul with the training of the Sanhedrin would have been an authority if asked on what Genesis means. So unless your prepared the argue that between the time of Paul and when Genesis was written, the meaning of the story changed your wrong about genesis being poetry. If its poetry, you may as well call Jesus a poetic device because saying a real historical figure is a successor to a guy who only existed in poetry makes no sense. Last I checked, unbiased information says that acts has least some historical accuracy. Last i also checked that bit about Paul is commonly understood to be true.

 

Exodus without Genesis makes no sense either because of the issue of geneology and as well the events in Genesis set up for the events in exodus. So are you prepared to say Exodus is poetry as well? What about kings? What about the various times in the old testament, that it says the law was given to moses? So was the law given to a figure of poetry. After all exodus rests of the historical value of genesis. So I suspect who ever said genesis was poetry is dead wrong. The old testament makes no rational sense if genesis is just poetry.

 

Unless you have the poetry excuse for revelations as well, from what I understand at a least, all the terms jesus used in the gospels feed into the concept in revelation that all that reject god join satan to burn in hell. A good example is hades (which is what is most commonly mentioned in regards to the gospels being thrown into the lake of fire. Gehenna which means lack of fire is also used to describe hell. So you would have to adjust, since you like appealing to common consensus and authority what is considered generally the authority view on what revelation means within the context of Christian theology. No, Augustine didn't invent hell the texts say that, the gospels and revelations invented hell.