Any Coming Out To Spouse Updates?

[roadrunner]

A lot of the response of the man will depend upon which particular Christian sect the couple is a part of, and how much he actually believes it.

 

For example, if the couple is a part of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist movement, then just about any woman would be terrified of deconverting if the husband actually believes that movement's "husband as spiritual head of household" doctrine, because this would undermine his "God-given" authority over the woman. If the couple is Episcopalian, I think that is much less of a big deal.

 

we were independent baptist and I am no longer the spiritual head. my wife is just so picky about what she'll cling to in religion. shes so ho-hum about it she'd rather deal with it that think for herself. but to her credit there is enough of different perspective to go around. some say you are unequally yoked and spiritually abandoned and other say to win your husband through your love for chirst. its pretty silly.

[Kateastrophy]

. Part of me suspects that if you're the type of woman who is even vaguely capable of deconversion, you're probably not the gung-ho crazy fundie type who'd marry an equally gung-ho Christian controller type like most fundie men seem to be. But this is purely my impression and I'm glad to be corrected.

 

At one time, I very much was. We married when I was 19 and he was 22. We were both virgins. We listened only to Christian music, and attended what is a (loosely) Christian-affiliated school (which I have since gone back to; the education is excellent and they have no religious instruction requirements). Up until this year, we tithed 10% of our PRE-TAX income even when it made it nearly impossible to pay bills. We both went on missions trips and served in Christian volunteer organizations. I was anti-birth control and didn't begin taking it until January of this year.

 

As we grew into adulthood, we grew more temperate and at my urging, left the evangelical denominations for something more classical and liturgical (Anglicanism). 4 years after that switch and I'm deconverting altogether.

 

I didn't just slide down the slippery slope of skepticism...I fell all the way down the rabbit hole.

[roadrunner]

. Part of me suspects that if you're the type of woman who is even vaguely capable of deconversion, you're probably not the gung-ho crazy fundie type who'd marry an equally gung-ho Christian controller type like most fundie men seem to be. But this is purely my impression and I'm glad to be corrected.

 

At one time, I very much was. We married when I was 19 and he was 22. We were both virgins. We listened only to Christian music, and attended what is a (loosely) Christian-affiliated school (which I have since gone back to; the education is excellent and they have no religious instruction requirements). Up until this year, we tithed 10% of our PRE-TAX income even when it made it nearly impossible to pay bills. We both went on missions trips and served in Christian volunteer organizations. I was anti-birth control and didn't begin taking it until January of this year.

 

As we grew into adulthood, we grew more temperate and at my urging, left the evangelical denominations for something more classical and liturgical (Anglicanism). 4 years after that switch and I'm deconverting altogether.

 

I didn't just slide down the slippery slope of skepticism...I fell all the way down the rabbit hole.

 

Thats fine thats a good thing. I would live to have a spouse that ACCEPTS reality. my wife is in denial. I have EX_CHRISTIAN.NET saved as a favorite since I dont care anymore and she asked "Whats this website? and makes comments like as a christian you should...... she truly thinks I am in a midlife crisis and she says it all the time.

[antix]

kateastrophy, I have to ask you a question which is off topic on this thread if you do not mind. Where were the mission trips, how long were they? My opinion only, but I find travel opens up people minds and am curious if once you see and experience other cultures, does thay help deconvert?

[Rek99]

Things have been relatively calm at my house over the last few weeks. My wife actually reached out to our pastor to ask some of the evolution questions on behalf of a "friend". I've been talking to her briefly about many Christian ministers and scientists to subscribe to evolution, and that they still believe in god. I even talked about how the pope accepts that evolution is a fact and my wife wanted to ask our paster what he thinks.

 

Surprisingly he basically agreed that we can see evolution happening and he agrees that it is likely a tool used by god to create. He also spoke of a much older earth, which was awesome because my wife still thinks it's 6000-8000 years old. I was very hopeful after the conversation, but she then recanted and said "well he can think what he wants, but I believe in a literal bible translation." *facepalm*

 

Here's an excerpt that I got from her when I was at work the other day:

 

"I can appreciate new discovery. I am not sure if I accept carbon dating or not, but even if I did that wouldn't change much. So then God created the world over time and since God isn't limited by time like we are, "days" In Genesis can be translated like a period of time. I have heard that theory before and am fine with that. I am fine with science that continually provides me insight into God's mind and how He envisioned this world to be like. I am not okay when science that tries to replace God with a theory."

 

Ah the old "theory" explaination. I'll have some fun trying to explain that to her.

[silentknight]

"I can appreciate new discovery. I am not sure if I accept carbon dating or not, but even if I did that wouldn't change much. So then God created the world over time and since God isn't limited by time like we are, "days" In Genesis can be translated like a period of time. I have heard that theory before and am fine with that. I am fine with science that continually provides me insight into God's mind and how He envisioned this world to be like. I am not okay when science that tries to replace God with a theory."

 

Yeah, I've heard that one. At least it's better than "God created the world with 'apparent age'" BS

[Rek99]

I just love how Christians talk about things that they have absolutely no way of knowing. "God isn't limited by time like we are". How the hell would anyone know that? If god is real, he apparently doesn't want us to know he is, and since there's no way to measure him/her/it, we have no clue what powers or authority it could possess. It's just insanity.

[roadrunner]

Things have been relatively calm at my house over the last few weeks. My wife actually reached out to our pastor to ask some of the evolution questions on behalf of a "friend". I've been talking to her briefly about many Christian ministers and scientists to subscribe to evolution, and that they still believe in god. I even talked about how the pope accepts that evolution is a fact and my wife wanted to ask our paster what he thinks.

 

Surprisingly he basically agreed that we can see evolution happening and he agrees that it is likely a tool used by god to create. He also spoke of a much older earth, which was awesome because my wife still thinks it's 6000-8000 years old. I was very hopeful after the conversation, but she then recanted and said "well he can think what he wants, but I believe in a literal bible translation." *facepalm*

 

Here's an excerpt that I got from her when I was at work the other day:

 

"I can appreciate new discovery. I am not sure if I accept carbon dating or not, but even if I did that wouldn't change much. So then God created the world over time and since God isn't limited by time like we are, "days" In Genesis can be translated like a period of time. I have heard that theory before and am fine with that. I am fine with science that continually provides me insight into God's mind and how He envisioned this world to be like. I am not okay when science that tries to replace God with a theory."

 

Ah the old "theory" explaination. I'll have some fun trying to explain that to her.

 

im using those same arguments too. but my wife is more like "its not your place to know everything. Some stuff is not for you to know" i think secretly she is starting to accept evolution being in oncology and all. I always said that its just a religion and that 2 people can peacefully exist in a marriage as a believer and non-believer but this kind of marriage sucks in the brief time that I've had one. its certainly not a deal breaker but belief spills over into so many other areas of life other than just sunday mornings. What to do before meals, how to justify that "miracle" dealing with losses of loved ones, priorities. there are implications to held beliefs (or lack of).

 

also, religion and science are rapidly diverging. you cant accept both they provide two very different explanations for everything and to jump on the bandwagon when reality becomes undeniable but still cling to everything else is absurd.

 

I asked my wife. Do you seriously think that everybody on the planet spoke the same language until some people built a tower that was too tall. Again I got the "I dont get caught in the details and its not for me to question and pick apart" I then explained that we have much better explanations for some of the things that religion claims sole responsibility for. I KNOW the wheels are turning in her head and I am not forceful as a matter of fact Ive never said "THERE IS NO GOD" to her. I wrote a letter but it was purely my perspective and not an evangelistic move.

[Serendipity Rose]

My situation is still the same mostly. Except for the fact that my husband seems to be stuck in a time warp with the Republican party while I've moved on to a completely different dimension. We still live in the same house.

 

Have you ever heard a mom say about her kids, "They're so good when they're sleeping!", implying that they're not when they're awake? That's what my marriage is like. As long as my husband is mentally "asleep" there is not friction, no interaction, nada. Either I will become financially independent and leave him, or he will "wake up" and decide he needs to become the authority in our household and I'll be leaving. Him waking up to the problem with religion just isn't going to happen.

 

Sometimes the wait is agonizing. The super good thing is that, for living in the most conservative part of Florida, we have a super awesome progressive community and atheist community here. I hardly even notice the fundies any more!

[Rek99]

I'm sorry to hear that, Rose.

 

My wife, while upset, is committed to our marriage. I hope your husband is able to wake up and see what he's going to lose.

[Thought2Much]

That's upsetting for me to hear, Rose. I'm with Rek — I hope he realizes that by continuing with the way it is now, he will lose you and your marriage.

[Akheia]

Rose, I join the others in saying I really hope that it won't come to ending the marriage. If you have to, you have to--but I hope he gets his head out of his ass before that happens. If you do end up leaving him, though, I will be behind you 100% (as a fellow DTMFA graduate).

[mcdaddy]

Rose, I join the others in saying I really hope that it won't come to ending the marriage. If you have to, you have to--but I hope he gets his head out of his ass before that happens. If you do end up leaving him, though, I will be behind you 100% (as a fellow DTMFA graduate).

 

divorce the mother fuckin asshole?

[roadrunner]

DTMFA? I had to google that one. Its new to me.

 

I hope it works out Rose. Im subliminally trying to show my wife that religion is not as important to my marriage as we both initially though. the good that it did was when we prayed we got a chance to eavesdrop and hear each other pour our hearts to god and we could act on that. The god part isnt neccessary. Kick that third wheel out of your marriage and show that man you are the same person he fell in love with.

 

I will say, you didnt give us many details of whats going on in your life/marriage but you just threw him the ultimatum. I know how frustating it is to be married to a god-bot. but see him and not his religion. Dont let the invisible man take your husband.

[Kateastrophy]

kateastrophy, I have to ask you a question which is off topic on this thread if you do not mind. Where were the mission trips, how long were they? My opinion only, but I find travel opens up people minds and am curious if once you see and experience other cultures, does thay help deconvert?

 

Mine was within the country (my parents wouldn't let me travel outside the country). About 4 days in Kentucky during the Kentucky Derby. Other people got to "minister" at the actual derby or other nicer places. I was sent to the projects in a clown suit to entertain children. I was 16.

 

In college my husband went to the gulf coast for a week with our college's ministry group, but that was before I was a student there.

[Serendipity Rose]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for your support! Don't feel sorry for me. I'm excited! There was nothing in our marriage before my deconversion. Deconverting just makes the divide between us that much larger!

 

I'm happy for people who have a good relationship with their partner/spouse and work together and either learn to co-exist or both end up deconverting. But the truth is that there are many people whose relationships were only held together by the threads of responsibility encouraged by religion, only clinging by our instincts to preserve support systems we need to survive and raise our offspring.

 

I was blinded by my ignorance due to limitations put on me, or I put on myself, staying in a culture that wasn't healthy--going to church even though it really had no meaning for me, it was just the only thing I knew since that is what I grew up in and was surrounded by.

 

Life is tough but I have a plan. Slowly I am chipping away at the things I need to do to make it happen. I have a lot of fabulous friends that help me keep my spirits up so I can keep plugging on.

 

I used to think that "all things happen for a reason." You know what I'm talking about. Since I was never a fundy I didn't really think of it in the conservative god way of thinking but more of a mystical woo kind of way. I've since shed that and am revisiting the idea from different perspectives. Whatever has happened to me in the past has been an education that guides me still today. It's my choice whether to use that education to become a bitter person, sad for missed opportunities, or to use it to BETTER myself and the world around me.

 

I choose better.

[Akheia]

There ya go, Rose, that's how you do it. You described my marriage to Evil Ex perfectly--once I wasn't subscribing to the crazy anymore, there really wasn't much left of our relationship. In so many cases here I see a husband or wife who deconverted and really wants to have a relationship that isn't based on crazy, and I can see that there's real love there--a real desire to work this thing out and have a marriage. But sometimes there just isn't anything left after the crazy is gone. Maybe then the couple can create something new--but maybe they won't be able to, and it's best to dissolve and move on so the crazy spouse can find another crazy to marry, and you can find someone sane. I support either action, of course. It's not in me to tell someone to leave a marriage or to keep one well past its use-by date; as a recovering codependent my signature move is to hang on despite all evidence that this is a very bad idea, so I don't think my judgment in these cases is always sound. So what I will say to people suffering with a believing spouse is: I care about you, and whatever you decide, I'm there for you

 

(DTMFA = Dump the Motherfucker Already. Used as a response to someone who is dating/married to a complete fucktard and everybody but him/her sees how bad that person is for him/her.)

[midniterider]

Things have been relatively calm at my house over the last few weeks. My wife actually reached out to our pastor to ask some of the evolution questions on behalf of a "friend". I've been talking to her briefly about many Christian ministers and scientists to subscribe to evolution, and that they still believe in god. I even talked about how the pope accepts that evolution is a fact and my wife wanted to ask our paster what he thinks.

 

Surprisingly he basically agreed that we can see evolution happening and he agrees that it is likely a tool used by god to create. He also spoke of a much older earth, which was awesome because my wife still thinks it's 6000-8000 years old. I was very hopeful after the conversation, but she then recanted and said "well he can think what he wants, but I believe in a literal bible translation." *facepalm*

 

Here's an excerpt that I got from her when I was at work the other day:

 

"I can appreciate new discovery. I am not sure if I accept carbon dating or not, but even if I did that wouldn't change much. So then God created the world over time and since God isn't limited by time like we are, "days" In Genesis can be translated like a period of time. I have heard that theory before and am fine with that. I am fine with science that continually provides me insight into God's mind and how He envisioned this world to be like. I am not okay when science that tries to replace God with a theory."

 

Ah the old "theory" explaination. I'll have some fun trying to explain that to her.

 

She believes in a literal bible translation....but calling a 'day' a period of time that could mean millions of years is not a literal translation. Should we literally kill our unruly children as the old testament commands? Should we literally kill someone who works on the sabbath (ex 31:15)? All pastors should be killed in order to literally follow that scripture. :-) Xians HAVE to ignore literal bible scripture otherwise they would all be in prison for murder. When you hear something like "well, what that scripture means is...." you could remind her a literal belief in the bible means the words are taken at face value...if you're feeling particularly frisky..haha

[Rek99]

Yeah I totally get what you're saying. Trying to argue those things with her is like talking to a brick wall. She believes the bible is the truth is the truth is the truth, nothing can convince her otherwise. Here's a good quote from a prayer email she sent from our shared email account that I saw before she deleted it:

 

Umm this is confidential. My husband ******* sat me down about a month ago and told me he doesn't believe in God or the Bible anymore. My house is now a spiritual warzone. We went to Bible College together, so it's not that he doesn't know the Bible, but his doubts have now taken him over and he is fully believing the lies of this world. He recently took an Astronomy class that he really enjoyed. He said everyone assumed everyone knew and agreed with Evolution (not even sure what she means here). He also has a few atheist friends whom I think had an influence over him. He now is trying to convince and pushing his new found beliefs on me. Please just pray that I say the right things to him, to know how to act around him and to not take snide comments about God too personal. I know this lost sheep will come home to his Shepard one day, but the process is very difficult to navigate and discern. Please pray we have no more arguments about what we should teach our children, that is probably the most heartbreaking part of this whole ordeal.

 

1. The lies of the world made me laugh. What lies? Common sense about scriptures that flat out don't make sense? Science that can be proven over and over and over?

 

2. The "athiest friends" thing really pissed me off. I have one outspoken athiest friend, and I didn't even talk to him about my lack of faith until I had already come to my own conclusions based off of lots and LOTS of research. Additionally, I'm absolutely not a fad follower or some sheep who can't think for himself. I very strongly consider myself to be a leader, and it disturbs me that she thinks of me in that way.

 

3. I'm not trying to push my beliefs on her at all. I DO try to get her to think about what she believes, and have reasons to believe what she says is true. Not just "bible says it, you're all wrong" because that doesn't fly with the majority of people.

 

4. The lost sheep thing is so sickening. Like I came to my senses and I'll instantly forget all the facts that I've learned over the last few years. I will fall on my knees and ask the forgiveness of the LAWD because I've been a terrible sinner.

 

Oh well, could be worse!

[roadrunner]

i get all the same stuff. you are being deceived by satan. and why do they insist that someone influenced you as if you dont have your own brain. trust me my sister keeps saying that. the fact that she thinks you are forcing it on her probably means you are being a little pushy with it, i slip in a comment here and ther and leave it alone. i shouldnt slip in the comment at all but i do want her to see truth just on her own. the sheep thing is kinda funny not to laugh bc your wife truley is hurt and concerned and does care. if she cared nothing for your your poor wretched soul that would be a concern.

[Akheia]

Ouch, man, that's harsh. I don't think I'd have liked seeing such an email either. It really smacked of deception and manipulation to me As well as a lot of disrespect. If you get converted, nobody gets fussy about whether or not someone "led you to God," in fact someone who converts another to Christianity is lauded and all but hero-worshipped, but oh wow if you deconvert suddenly you've been "led astray" by the "lies of this world." Guess what, sweet-muffin, newflash; GOD MADE THIS WORLD.

 

But hey, at least she acknowledges that you know your Bible. Christian claims that we're getting it "out of context" are so old they're painful! I hope your home isn't a warzone, because if it is, it's because she's making it so. I've mentioned my husband's parents and their mixed marriage--she is a fervent Christian (probably would classify as "emergent," for those keeping score), but he was a staunch atheist. And they lived for decades madly in love until he died. From what my husband and his mom have indicated, religion was never an argument point for them. My husband and his brother were carted to church weekly until they got old enough to decide they didn't like it (around 8-10) and then they were allowed to stay home with Dad. Mom had her pastor over all the time (lady pastor, apparently very cool; that pastor died and the replacement was also female and I met her--very nice lady) and church friends, and nobody gave anybody shit over not being Christian. My husband's now a pagan of the same variety I am, and his brother's recently become a kind-of-Christian. So it's absolutely possible to live peacefully and lovingly with differing religions.

 

I really think it's only been the last couple decades when Christians began to assume that religion had to be a war scenario and put so much emphasis on it, and relationships got so polarized around it. When I look at situations like these, I really see how manipulative evangelical Christianity can be--making couples this divided seems absolutely designed to force non-believers and questioners back into the fold--to force them to stay Christian or else lose their entire families, their friends, everybody. It's so painful for everybody involved, and it's so totally unnecessary.

[SusanStoHeli]

I'm thinking any spouse who is a literal Bible believer should read Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

 

Leviticus 21:18 - No person with any type of deformity or blemish is to approach the altar.

 

Deuteronomy 23:2 - A 'bastard' - a person whose parents were not married - cannot enter the church - even if one of your ancestors, 10 generations back was a bastard, you cannot go to church.

 

 

Oh, and Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not to change it - so none of this game of pretending the OT doesn't apply. If they claim that, ask them to quote where it is that Jesus says it. One verse says that the food laws of the OT don't apply - and it's not even Jesus saying so - but there's nothing to say that the OT laws are gone.

[Rek99]

Shamelessly stolen:

 

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

 

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

 

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

 

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

 

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

 

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

 

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

 

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

 

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

 

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

 

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100306062514AAZd8lk

 

But you know all fundies would say is: "You're taking it out of context!!!!!!1!!"

[★ Citsonga ★]

i get all the same stuff. you are being deceived by satan. and why do they insist that someone influenced you as if you dont have your own brain. trust me my sister keeps saying that.

 

They can't conceive of the possibility that our skepticism of Christianity is well-founded. They can't consider that their religion may actually be false, and they can't bring themselves to accept the fact that we can come to an honest and informed understanding that Christianity isn't true. Thus, they have to have some "scapegoat" to blame, so it's easy for them to jump to the conclusion that we're simply being led astray by others (and/or being deceived by the devil).

 

Another thing that they typically fail to recognize is that by making the assumption that we're led astray by friends, they are unwittingly admitting that mere mortal humans are more powerful than the Holy Spirit.

[roadrunner]

They can't conceive of the possibility that our skepticism of Christianity is well-founded. They can't consider that their religion may actually be false, and they can't bring themselves to accept the fact that we can come to an honest and informed understanding that Christianity isn't true. Thus, they have to have some "scapegoat" to blame, so it's easy for them to jump to the conclusion that we're simply being led astray by others (and/or being deceived by the devil).

 

Another thing that they typically fail to recognize is that by making the assumption that we're led astray by friends, they are unwittingly admitting that mere mortal humans are more powerful than the Holy Spirit.

Yeah but the problem with bringing that up is that's a logical argument and thinking back to when I was a believer I didn't buy a logical arguments. To be a believer you have to be willing to set logic aside. To be fair i think xians define logic differently.

 

Also you are spot on about the scapegoat. ANYTHING other than "he's right". They will do this to the extent that they will even change some of their own seemingly insignicant opinions about the religion just to make sense of it all. Just as logic and study can debunk religion. I could ask that they debunk my way of thinking to show that I'm off my rocker or misunderstanding something.

 

Also, this rescue effort on everybody's part is killing me. Its the same "I feel it. I know it. i had a miracle" arguments that they keep giving me. It getting annoying