Any Coming Out To Spouse Updates?

[mcdaddy]

 

 

These guys wouldn't hurt a flea.

[roadrunner]

Since I am the original namer, founder, CEO and Fuhrer of the UYC, I demand that all members send me 25% of your income (gross, NOT NET) to help the less fortunate unequally yokeders. If you ask for proof I am not dispensing the funds in an upright manner, that shows a lack of faith and you will be banned from UYC.

 

 

 

That will be all.

 

That's fine. I'll just start my own club, and call it the Club for the Unequally Yoked (CUY).

 

Well, we'll have nude mixers and donkey rides at mine. Eat my ass, competitor!

 

My club is cheaper. So there's that.

I'd spend a little more for a donkey ride......unless the fees just cover liquor so we can all get wasted complain to each other about how frustrating it is to live with a fundy.

[mcdaddy]

Since I am the original namer, founder, CEO and Fuhrer of the UYC, I demand that all members send me 25% of your income (gross, NOT NET) to help the less fortunate unequally yokeders. If you ask for proof I am not dispensing the funds in an upright manner, that shows a lack of faith and you will be banned from UYC.

 

 

 

That will be all.

 

That's fine. I'll just start my own club, and call it the Club for the Unequally Yoked (CUY).

 

Well, we'll have nude mixers and donkey rides at mine. Eat my ass, competitor!

 

My club is cheaper. So there's that.

I'd spend a little more for a donkey ride......unless the fees just cover liquor so we can all get wasted complain to each other about how frustrating it is to live with a fundy.

 

 

Donkey rides ARE included, but they will be colts, the foal of a colt. or whatever.

[Akheia]

And you have to ride two at once. If that doesn't make you spew technicolor after all that booze, I don't know what will.

[mcdaddy]

oh, we give you chasers beforehand to prevent hangover.

 

and anal lube.

 

 

i mean, free pizza.

[Akheia]

That puts all those pizza lock-ins my church's youth group did in a whole new (lurid and unwholesome) light.

[mcdaddy]

That puts all those pizza lock-ins my church's youth group did in a whole new (lurid and unwholesome) light.

 

then my work here is done. Adieu.

[Rek99]

I prefer to call my group the Club for Unequally-Yolked Marriages...... or C.U.M.

 

Who wants to join?!!?

[mcdaddy]

If the party's in your mouth, everybody's comin'.

[shortCakeSlayer]

LOL this thread has me snickering at my desk.

 

To the OP, i just wanted to suggest something for your wife to look into, if she's interested. One of my best friends in college was studying under a man named Micheal Persinger, who did extensive research into the suggestive capabilities of the human brains and whether or not he could recreate a "God experience" in someone simply by stimulating certain parts of the brain with EMF. He was actually able to recreate the sensing of a "presence" in the room in certain people, as well as the feeling as if God were in your head, and feeling spiritually connected, etc, simply by altering the frequencies of electro-magnetic fields around someone's head. This would also explain a lot of the "ghosts" people feel in their basements; exposed wiring and shoddy insulation in certain parts of houses (attics and basements) can make people feel weird, as if someone were "watching them." Apparently, people are all different (duh) and there are some that are more sensitive to these types of shifts in EMF than others. Just depends on your brain and some various other biologicla factors.

 

He called his device the God helmet. I actually had a chance to meet him after travelling up to Toronto for my friends wedding. A pretty intense and intelligent guy. For me, it helped explain a lot of my own feelings and personal religious experiences, because I've had intense "religious" experiences and the only way I could explain them for a long time was "because God made it happen." It's very interesting research and does give a scientific explanation of why people "feel" the way they do at certain moments, or how they can sense the presence of God.

[pandora]

Yes, that was a cool experiment! Ketamine, DXM, and all sorts of other drugs can also produce similar experiences, to a much greater extent.

 

I wonder if churches will start installing EMF projectors.

[Rek99]

So it turns out my wife forwarded my email (I also put it on the previous page) to several of her friends and two of the pastors at our church to try and get them to do research on it. I saw her responding to one of the pastors, as he was asking about how we met and my background, and saying they should meet tomorrow. I essentially told her that I don't feel comfortable with her meeting with a male pastor one-on-one to talk about us and our marriage. I'm not meeting with a female athiest one-on-one to discuss what a nutjob she is (as much as I'm still in love with her). I DID tell her that if she wants to meet with one of the female pastors or a female therapist I would have no problem with it. She agreed and told him that if he wants to email her some sources to rebuke my points that would be best.

 

Am I being out of line here? I don't want to seem like a crazy controlling husband, but I don't feel comfortable with her sharing intimate details about our history and marriage with a male one-on-one.

[darwinfish]

Am I being out of line here? I don't want to seem like a crazy controlling husband, but I don't feel comfortable with her sharing intimate details about our history and marriage with a male one-on-one.

 

I don't think it's out of line, if it makes you uncomfortable. I would have been fine with it, but on that note I had to get my wife comfortable with me meeting with Recovering from Religion group, and it was a mixed group.

 

If your wife understands and you both agree to it, I don't see a problem.

[LivingLife]

IMO your marriage is of no concern to the church. Put your foot down. Take it from me, there is no such thing as confidentiality in their ranks as they are only accountable to invisible entities.

[Akheia]

Pastors just aren't typically held to the same standards as mental health care professionals, notably confidentiality. I've been bitten on the ass that way myself by a military chaplain. Not only is it none of her church's business what your marriage is up to, they're probably not going to be geared to really helping your wife. How do you feel about her talking to someone who actually is, like a real counselor with credentials and professional obligations? Even if it's a man, in that case it's not a man-man, it's just a male professional who is trained in how to avoid getting too emotionally entangled with a female client. Even if it's a Christian counselor, if the requirement for credentials and obligations are there, she'd get the resources she needs without you worrying about the male/female dynamic and the whole church finding out your dirty laundry.

 

I'd definitely be concerned if I were a man and found out my spouse was talking to another man about my marriage. We know way too much about clergy sexual scandals to feel safe in placid assurances of propriety. Clergymen just aren't accountable, and though many do get some sort of training in counseling, they're obviously not going to be as high-quality of a counselor as an actual educated, accredited, licensed therapist is. You're 100% right to be concerned here and 100% right to ask for some limits, in my opinion.

[Rek99]

So this is a response that she got from one of the pastors at her church. My comments are in bold:

 

Okay, here are some basic thoughts on those passages, as well as a few resources that should help the scientific side. You guys mentioned you went to Bible College, right? So he should have a basic hermeneutical background to tackle these verses. IE; I should be able to make excuses for them

 

It should be noted that much of the OT culture and law was not God designing the perfect system to live by - He was taking the obscene practices of the ancient world and the idol worship that abounded, and simply creating a law to set apart the Jewish nation and minimize the effects of such a depraved world. A good example is polygamy: never prescribed or mandated by God, but since it was the reality of the world in which these people lived, He found a way to work through it. Then why not say it's not okay to do things in the first place?

Numbers 5:11-22 - Much of the OT Law is an expression of grace, as counter-intuitive as that seems to our modern minds. Cultures were savage and uncivilized back then, and God's law served to limit the escalation of evil. A woman suspected of adultery would have simply been killed in many cultures, so providing this law actually gave her an opportunity to be vindicated if her husband was wrongfully suspicious. So it's okay to make a woman drink flour, water, and animal remains, but it's not okay to outright kill her? Again, it should not have been allowed to happen to begin with.

Deuteronomy 25:11 - Again, the Law was put in place to minimize escalation. The "eye-for-an-eye" overtones in the OT was extremely counter-cultural to the typical escalation of conflict in situations like these. Rather than the family of the man who had his testicles destroyed retaliating in an even greater way to avenge the loss of the family lineage, they were held to a "punishment fits the crime" response. This is just insane. The all-knowing all-powerful being that created everything inspires us to write about quarreling and grabbing testicles. I am filled with a sense of awe after reading this.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - The woman in question would have been unwanted by a man in their marital culture, so it is an act of grace to her to ensure that the man takes care of her and does not simply steal her "innocence" and destroy the rest of her life. Amaazing. Thank jebus for this amazing man raping this unwanted woman to save her from a life of not being raped. At least her parents who had such a terrible daughter get some money out of it.

Jeremiah 19:9 - Not God condoning cannibalism. God is allowing His righteous discipline on His chosen people who have turned to idolatry through the nation of Babylon, and Jeremiah is simply prophesying what will happen…not what should happen. To put it in Bible college terms: it's descriptive, not prescriptive. Ah, another passage that you have to make up excuses for. That's not what he literally meant!!!

1 Samuel 15:3 - The reasoning comes from the verse preceding this one, and is based on the history of this nation's relationship with Israel. To quote a great footnote in my study Bible: "The Amalekites were a band of guerrilla terrorists. They lived by attacking other nations and carrying off their wealth and their families. They were the first to attack the Israelites as they entered the Promised Land, and they continued to raid Israelite camps at every opportunity. God knew that the Israelites could never live peacefully in the Promised Land as long as the Amalekites existed. He also knew that their corrupt, idolatrous religious practices threatened Israel's relationship with him. The only way to protect the Israelites' bodies and souls was to utterly destroy the people of this warlike nation and all their possessions, including their idols."

 

It should also be noted regarding the God-ordained military conquests of the Israelites that they were warring with pagan nations who each had some god or gods responsible for war. Battles were less about which nation is stronger, and more about who's god was stronger. Since Israel was supposed to reveal who the One True God was to the world, that God had better kick butt in battles to show the other nations that their gods were feeble and nonexistent. So the 10 commandments say thou shalt not kill, but it's okay to kill men, women, children, and infants if god says so? Sounds pretty radical to me.

 

1 Peter 2:18 - Again, not condoning slavery. Simply saying: "since slavery already exists and some of you are slaves, here's how to behave in respect to your masters so they might come to know Christ." When is it EVER okay to own another human being? Why not come out and say "hey, you shouldn't own another person that I created, and you need to set them free." And don't give me this whole "it was the culture at the time" because in your words, jebus was a counter-cultural phenomenon who shook off the cultural norms at the time by eating with tax collectors, sinners, prostitues, and gentiles. What a bunch of horse-shit.

 

 

As far as science contradicting the Bible, there are several resources I would point you in the direction of:

-Anything by Ravi Zacharias would be good. He's a highly educated apologist, and you can get a bunch of resources from his website (http://www.rzim.org) as well as numerous books he has published.

-Here's an article from his website pertaining to some of (my name) mindset at this point - http://www.rzim.org/a-slice-of-infinity/the-war-between-science-and-religion/

-Lee Strobel is another good apologetic resource, but I prefer Ravi to him, honestly. Almost all moral arguments that say there has to be a god or we'll all turn into a pack of mouth-breathing savages trying to rape each other. Hmmm... sounds like the old testament.

 

I would also say that he seems to be falling into the common trap of assuming that historical events in which sinful men did sinful things in the name of God discredits God. Such is not the case. You cannot look at corruption in the Catholic church, Galileo and the Pope, or current debates over Creationism and jump to the conclusion that God is not real. Yes I can. Pray for something that only god can do and show me evidence. Pray for a veteran's arm to regrow, and then we'll talk. There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of the God of the Bible, He continues to work and reveal Himself today, and no rational person can deny the life of Jesus and His resurrection - and that is what everything hinges on. God entered human history, taught and spoke (and we have accurate records of what He said about God), and then He rose from the dead - anyone else ever pulled that off? Is there any proof of this? Eye-witness accounts are the least reliable form of evidence. I can write a blog post that says 100 people witnessed me flying, so therefore I can fly. Unbelieveable.

 

Much of this peripheral evolution stuff is just extraneous. Honestly, could God have used evolution as a mechanism for what we see in the world today? Sure. One true thing the guy from the videos did say is that evolution does not equal atheism. Now, I think there are holes and flaws in the science and I'm not saying I believe it, but again that's not the point. My advice would be to try to steer the conversation to Jesus, and his life, death and resurrection. Jesus is more recent, Jesus is more provable, and Jesus is the center of the whole thing anyway. I'm not saying you can't argue intelligently for creationism or intelligent design, but I'm saying I don't think you'll win him back to faith with that - I would keep the main thing the main thing. You can love Jesus and have different views on some of the extraneous scientific issues. False. If evolution is true, then clearly adam and eve are completely made up. And don't give me all this "different interpretation" crap from Genesis. If god is real, then his one real book would be demonstrably true and nobody would be arguing about it. We would have piles of evidence to show that it's true. Instead we have thousands of different off-shoots from the old testament literature constantly warring with each other about which one is better.

 

Finally, I would encourage you to try and pinpoint some sort of catalyst that got all of this started. It's one thing to be a believer with some doubts (which is all of us from time to time), but to go from Bible College educated believer to "I can't believe in God" is a jump that is often motivated by something. Had this been brewing for a while? Did some sort of tragedy befall him? Has he always doubted, but kept trying to believe because that's what he felt he needed to do? Is there some sort of sin issue in his life? I'm not trying to pry into your lives or accuse anyone of anything, but more often than not, some deeper heart issue leads to this kind of pseudo-intellectual block out of a distrust of God and/or unwillingness to surrender to Him. I'm only encouraging you to consider that side, because it might actually be more fruitful to deal with whatever is underlying this whole thing rather than all the intellectual smoke-screens that are really more of a self-preservation coping mechanism. Oooooooh that's right. I can't stop believing in god because of complete lack of evidence. I must have some sort of terrible sin in my life. Holy shit

[roadrunner]

that is one of the most insulting things I could have read (particularly the last paragraph). ANYTHING other than "you know, he may be onto something". My pastor told me that. But he at least prefaces it with "Im not saying this is the case but....". I can understand how people will want to justify "sin" by pretending that god isnt there. But for someone doing all the right things and then looks around and realizes he did it all by himself and god wasnt there, it baffles them. Its not rocket science.

 

My FIL gave me the "Ive been in your shoes" quote. and the "never was saved" crap. This is what prompted me to make the whole "can a Xian understand Atheism" thread. The answer most of the time is a resounding NO.

[RedStar]

Wow, that guy is so full of shit, ignorance and stupidity my head is ready to explode. On top of that he's stupid enough to think that you can be "won back". They have to twist things so badly to make excuses for it, pathetic.

[Rek99]

"Intellectual smoke-screens" made me laugh out loud. I mean, doing mental gymnastics to think things that are completely inconsistent with the world around us is okay, but to agree with things I can see, test, and prove is rediculous.

[roadrunner]

Am I the only one of us having "bad" days with my spouse. We had a heated discussion today because I wanted to watch "The History of the English Bible" with her and she said she as tired but tonight alone while I bathed the kids and tended to things she watch Dancing with the Stars, The Voice, and the last part of X-Factor all in one night. I bring up ONE non-fiction video so we can learn something (I've already seen it) and there's always an excuse. I then made a smart comment about how she is buying all of these books on apologetics and explanations and hasn't read one page of either of them. I feel like some dog being thrown bones. "Here's a good one , read this.....here's another read this too" Meanwhile its fine to sit back with her fingers in her ears.

 

So then I get criticized for being skeptic. "Why do you always have to have somebody show you something, science has to show this, or I've read this and the story x is impossible" My response was simply "and the alternative is........" After a silence I said something about xians bending over and "taking whatever the pastor has to say up the chute". That was wrong..true but wrong. Obviously that didn't go over well.

 

After cooler heads prevailed, I calmly explained that this is the most important decision any human could ever make and yet Im supposed to just assume. I pointed out apologists exist for a reason. the reason is that Christianity is not an open and shut case. and people want to tell me they've been in my shoes. I dont know anybody who says I was an atheist for a year and then i smartened up. The one person I know that claimed to be atheist turned christian grew up in a christian household with devoutly religious parents and showed apathy toward church and lived rebelliously until early 20's. To me, thats not a true atheist. They never didn't believe, they simply rejected what they thought to be true.

 

Anyways, I then talked about how no Christians I know, know who Mithras, Osiris, Krishna, Amun-Ra are. She said "that doesn't matter, God has shown himself to me" I responded with "it matters to me because these people predate that bible (pointing to giant bible) and they bear a striking resemblance". This ended the discussion.

 

What a day.

[mcdaddy]

Nice way to end it!!!

 

I gave MsDaddy the ol' "abortion should be a GOOD thing to you" argument the other day. She knew her answer was BS but I didn't push it. I told her in the middle of a conversation how the bible "was based on nothing", which what I mean is "has not a damn thing REAL in it". My dad condescingly thinks ill be back in the fold in a few years. I told him that no I wasn't, he got visibly pissed and semi-yelled "YES YOU WILL". More out of just bein scared for my ghost and whatnot.

[darwinfish]

The last conversation I had with my wife about religion (two days ago), she seemed like she no longer cares. I prefer apathy to endless arguments. So, two weeks ago, I told a close friend of mine, and now for the last ten days I've had a new email from him parroting the apologetics bs. I give him responses talking about evidence. And, that you should hold a state of disbelief until the evidenced is convincing enough. But, so far it's been an endless string of BS fundy propaganda. I have sympathy for him, because I fell for the same crap, too. But, I'm starting to get bolder in my atheism knowing that my wife seem like she's no longer bothered by it.

[RedStar]

Good way to end it roadrunner, hopefully she'll think about it. There are many people from different religions who believe their god has 'revealed' him/herself to them, so how can they assert that they are correct and everyone else isn't? This is one of the questions they seem to hate most, but it's a valid question. Now that I'm not in the cult anymore I can see how arrogant it really is to think your beliefs are right and other people's aren't when you have nothing but your own emotions and confirmation bias to rely on.

[Akheia]

RR, your wife would hate talking to pagans. All sorts of gods have "shown themselves" to the pagans I've known. They're all as convinced of this as your wife is of her own flavor of deity. If she thinks they're not real, well, the pagans think her god isn't real either but just loosely based on an earlier polytheistic god, so I guess it's a nice spiritual Mexican standoff. Emotions, perceptions, memories, these are the least reliable things a human can possibly use as guides, but Christianity forces its adherents to do exactly that. You're right about apologetics, too. If Christianity were so undeniably true, so logically sound, so rationally perfect, "apologist" wouldn't even exist as a job category.

 

McD's got the right of it about abortion, too. It's a good thing even if one does not personally ever have one. The civil rights that grow out of this fundamental right of humans affects and flavors every other thing about our government, in my view. But even just at the practical level, Mrs. McD can enjoy lower crime rates, smaller class sizes for her own progeny, lower food costs as fewer people are scrabbling for limited resources, lower taxes as she's not paying for unwanted children's food and rearing, therapeutic abortions should one of her own desired fetuses develop terminal issues, a full range of reproductive choices for controlling the number of her own progeny, and a government that recognizes her autonomy in making her own decisions about every single aspect of her life and which is dedicated to a firm separation of church and state. I hadn't thought about this, but it's a very good point, McD, one worth chewing on. I bet others could bring a dozen more benefits to the table for Mrs. McD, but wow, to me point is made and game is won by you.

 

Good luck, RR, and to McD and the others in the UYC. You guys should write a book. Seriously, a book. You've had a lot of thinking time on this and it makes you bring out such astonishing insights. I'm floored every time I come to this thread.

[roadrunner]

The last conversation I had with my wife about religion (two days ago), she seemed like she no longer cares. I prefer apathy to endless arguments. So, two weeks ago, I told a close friend of mine, and now for the last ten days I've had a new email from him parroting the apologetics bs. I give him responses talking about evidence. And, that you should hold a state of disbelief until the evidenced is convincing enough. But, so far it's been an endless string of BS fundy propaganda. I have sympathy for him, because I fell for the same crap, too. But, I'm starting to get bolder in my atheism knowing that my wife seem like she's no longer bothered by it.

 

I cant wait till my wife is comfortable with it. Its insulting to be treated like Im broken simply because I think people dont walk on water, donkeys don't talk, people dont come back from the dead, and that the world is not 6000 years old. Thats crazy. I would like to start/join an organization in my community but I just need to take care of matters at home first.

 

Another thing is that my wife and people who are offering "help" are just shelling out some one elses opinion. You can repeat a fact that some one else found but you can't do that with an interpretation.I did tell her that she comes across as having her fingers in her ears the way she is going about this. Almost like "I dont have a problem. You need to read this book" There no other word for it other than insulting.