I Hate Dietary Elitists

[Kurari]

DISCLAIMER: This is not directed at anybody in particular. It is NOT directed at ALL animal rights activists, vegetarians, or vegans who are doing well with their lifestyle and diet, and are respectful of others and their lives. You can consider yourselves excluded entirely from this rant. It's directed only at the dipshits that give you guys a bad name by being sanctimonious twats.

 

My doctor has put me on a low-carb diet. I was turning insulin resistant and was having some other problems related to that. So I'm doing Atkins and it's working really well for me. I've dropped 15 pounds already, and I have much more energy. My doctor is supervising me closely, so things are going well.

 

But of course this means I eat lots of protein and lots of vegetables. And now I'm getting sanctimonious animal rights activists in my face about the meat.

 

I swear, these people are as unpleasant, deluded, and irritating as any Christian fundamentalist. They don't listen, they are convinced only their way is the right way, and their self-righteous attitude is like a wasp crawling in your ear. They are utterly convinced their way would work for everybody on the planet, is the true key to ending global hunger, veganism is the only TRULY healthy and moral way to eat, and they actually think PETA's antics with wrapping up naked women in cellophane is actually helping further the cause of abused animals.

 

I was actually a vegan for about a year and a half around 6 years ago. I really didn't do well on it. I gained weight, had no energy, and was having digestive problems constantly. Turns out that I have sensitivities to legumes and a lot of grains, so outside of eating rice and vegetables, that was a no go. As soon as I quit that, I got much better. I don't have an onus against the diet itself. I don't think it's unhealthy at all. I know it works very well for others and that's great. They should absolutely stick with it if it works for them. For me and my body, it just didn't happen.

 

That fact does not get respected. No, I must not have been doing it right (in spite of the fact I was being monitored by a long-time vegan who knew just about everything you ever wanted to know on the subject)! Vegetarian and vegan diets work for EVERYONE on the planet, and if they don't, that just means you are selfish and don't want to give up meat or you aren't doing it right! Why, they've been vegan for 20 years now, and they know people who totally lost weight and are marathon runners and can outbench press meat eaters and...

 

Sound familiar?

 

I noticed something in being yelled at by these types. I don't really hear anything about animals in it all that. If you ever listen to one of these people talk, it's usually all about them and their diets, and their lifestyles, and their beliefs. They simply exploit animals in their own way so they can be sanctimonious and feel better than everybody else. They think that just eating a vegan diet is the cure all, and they honestly don't know thing one about farming. They just listen to propaganda and think that it's gospel.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I care about the welfare of animals. Nothing on this planet deserves to suffer. I think our general farming practices in America are sickening, literally. Factory farming HAS to halt, and so does our monoculture methods of farming plant crops. Inhumanity leads to sick livestock and crops, which means a sick environment, which means sick food, which means sick consumers...adults, children, and pets.

 

This is why I worked my ass off and spent god-awful amounts of money have my own little hobby farm. Most of my meat and vegetables come from that. The chickens get to free range outdoors, take dust baths, hunt for bugs and plants, and aren't mutant cornish cross that grow to adult size in 8 weeks. The goats have plenty of milk, and the kids stay with their moms and nurse while we take the excess. The critters do a lot of work cleaning up the space needed for planting our vegetables, fruits, and herbs with their browsing, digging, and scratching. Their manure gets composted and fed back to the soil, which is fed to the plants, and the plants grow strong and healthy from this. I don't need to use medications, pesticides, or antibiotics (unless absolutely necessary, which is very rare and an as-needed basis).

 

It's a night and day difference in quality, taste, and nutrition. My animals are the lifeblood of my farm and my health. Making sure they are able to live good lives is my priority.

 

But I have to make concessions here. You can't run a farm without culling animals. It just doesn't happen. I can't live without eating meat. So making sure the ones slated for the dinner plate are killed as humanely as possible is something I care deeply about.

 

'Cause obviously, I'm a cold-blooded killer who only does all this for no reason.

 

/rant

 

P.S. Again, this is not a slam on the vegan diet, lifestyle, or a generalization of all vegans...It's directly only at the assholes I've been running into lately. All exceptions are taken into account at the time of this posting and will remain exceptions.

[Thought2Much]

Well, you're obviously just a shill for Big Food and Big Meat, and have been tricked by the propaganda from the likes of Monsanto.

 

 

 

[Kaiser01]

How dare you direct this at me...

[Vigile]

Kurari, do you live in Seattle, San Francisco or LA or has American really changed so much that there are a lot more nosy vegans running around? I don't recall anyone ever worrying about what I did or didn't eat. In DC my coworkers and I were in the habit of trying different restaurants at lunch and meat was definitely on the menu. So even in the major metro areas it didn't seem like people were preachy about food.

[florduh]

I feel your irritation, Kurari!

 

For YOU, the diet you're currently on is perfect, just ask BO. For others, as I've said before, healthy people can adapt to damn near any diet and thrive on it. Ethical treatment of animals is another topic, but the diet nazis always end up claiming greatly exaggerated health benefits to further justify their choices.

 

Gotta go, it's lunchtime. I'll not disclose what I intend to eat.

[Vigile]

I feel your irritation, Kurari!

 

For YOU, the diet you're currently on is perfect, just ask BO. For others, as I've said before, healthy people can adapt to damn near any diet and thrive on it. Ethical treatment of animals is another topic, but the diet nazis always end up claiming greatly exaggerated health benefits to further justify their choices.

 

Gotta go, it's lunchtime. I'll not disclose what I intend to eat.

 

My completely untested (as far as I'm aware) hypothesis is that different people need different diets, depending on their personal constitution. My heritage is primarily northern European and I tend to feel better when living on a higher-fat northern European type diet. My wife, though also northern European, does much better on a lighter diet consisting of mostly vegetables. On her diet, I'd feel like I was starving, no matter how much I ate -- maybe she has a few Hun genes despite the fact she is blond and blue eyed.

[buffettphan]

I so agree with you -- concerning both the diet requirements/preferences of individuals and the attitudes of those who "disagree"!

[Looking4Answers]

Yep. I've run into this more recently. Especially on Facebook where people seem to love to post about such things. Some of these people equate eating an animal to murder, to cannibalism. One of the problems, as I see things, is that we, as humans, tend to project. We think and experience emotions a specific way and, as a result, we tend to project that onto other things. This is one reason why we, as children, think the way we do about our toys (particular stuffed animals and dolls). We feel bad when the stuffed animal is neglected or sat on or left in a hot car. Why? Because that is how WE would feel. But we all know that stuffed animals do not experience anything because they are not alive.

 

In a similar way, some people tend to project these same types of thoughts toward any animal. Thus, it is assumed that the animal reacts to pain the same as we do, that they emote as we do, that they, to some degree, think as we do. But this is not the case, especially not with the "lower" animals.

[Ro-bear]

Many "true believers" behave in the manner of the boors you have recently been plagued with. An ex-smoker is the most annoying anti-smoking advocate. The formerly obese wax evangelical about their diet and exercise regimens. But it is even worse when a moral component is thrown into the mix; that's when the tone really gets superior.

[oddbird1963]

I lost the last 70-80 pounds of my 110 pound weight loss by going low carb. I personally think the plan rocks! I've pulled back a bit to choosing only carbs that are not processed. I still don't eat much corn or many potatoes. I definitely try to keep away from the processed carbs and sugar. I've been able to maintain for several months now, which is almost as good news as losing all that weight!

 

Tell those vegementalists to grow up a little and keep on doing what works. You may decide to go vegan later yourself - or not! But that's your decision and they need to be told to back off.

 

Keep up the great work!

[lunaticheathen]

Personally, I'm jealous of your farm. I think that's the way to go, no matter what your diet. You're right in that commercial farming of meat and produce just hurts everyone, and that's the real problem. And that's something vegans can't fix with their diets, no matter how hard they try.

 

I want the family farm system back.

[Vigile]

Many "true believers" behave in the manner of the boors you have recently been plagued with. An ex-smoker is the most annoying anti-smoking advocate. The formerly obese wax evangelical about their diet and exercise regimens. But it is even worse when a moral component is thrown into the mix; that's when the tone really gets superior.

 

When I was still an xian, my friend (who was also raised in the church) and I used to talk about how obnoxious the new believers were. They were always preachy and judgmental. I guess they felt they had more to prove and hadn't learned how to temper themselves.

[Vigile]

Personally, I'm jealous of your farm. I think that's the way to go, no matter what your diet. You're right in that commercial farming of meat and produce just hurts everyone, and that's the real problem. And that's something vegans can't fix with their diets, no matter how hard they try.

 

I want the family farm system back.

 

Have you seen the documentary Farmageddon? It seemed pretty fair and balanced to me and discusses local farmers and co-ops and the problems they are having with regulatory agencies.

[Kurari]

Kurari, do you live in Seattle, San Francisco or LA or has American really changed so much that there are a lot more nosy vegans running around? I don't recall anyone ever worrying about what I did or didn't eat. In DC my coworkers and I were in the habit of trying different restaurants at lunch and meat was definitely on the menu. So even in the major metro areas it didn't seem like people were preachy about food.

 

You nailed it. I'm around Seattle. So running into high-minded folks in general is very easy to do!

 

 

Yep. I've run into this more recently. Especially on Facebook where people seem to love to post about such things. Some of these people equate eating an animal to murder, to cannibalism. One of the problems, as I see things, is that we, as humans, tend to project. We think and experience emotions a specific way and, as a result, we tend to project that onto other things. This is one reason why we, as children, think the way we do about our toys (particular stuffed animals and dolls). We feel bad when the stuffed animal is neglected or sat on or left in a hot car. Why? Because that is how WE would feel. But we all know that stuffed animals do not experience anything because they are not alive.

 

In a similar way, some people tend to project these same types of thoughts toward any animal. Thus, it is assumed that the animal reacts to pain the same as we do, that they emote as we do, that they, to some degree, think as we do. But this is not the case, especially not with the "lower" animals.

 

This is absolutely true. While I truly believe that if you are going to own animals, you HAVE to treat them gently and take care of their needs...I have learned intricately not to project. Chickens are vicious cannibals. I'm serious. If one chicken gets even a little bloody scratch, the other chickens will come running to peck at and get at the blood. They will literally peck to death an injured flock member and eat it. So if I discover an injured chicken, I have to separate it for a while and let it heal in a place the rest of the flock can't reach it.

 

They get all the cooked chicken scraps from dinner too. They love it.

[Akheia]

I'm so envious of your little farm. I'd LOVE to have that. I lost 70 pounds 10 years ago on Atkins (my doc put me on it for the same reason yours did you) and have kept the bulk of it off since then.

 

I genuinely think that there's an "ideal diet" for everybody. The reason I think it's tied to biology is that not only is low-carb my ideal diet but it is also my sister's. We both do beautifully on it, lose weight like crazy, and feel good while on it. Others may find their biology works better on veganism or paleo or whatever. The trick is finding out which diet is best for your body!

 

A long time ago I divided vegetarians/vegans into two camps: the "ethical" ones and the "health/taste" ones. The "ethical" ones are the mewling pussies I most despise. There's something in the human psyche that wants to be "more hardcore than thou." It's just a play for superiority. By eschewing animal products, they demonstrate that they are superior to you (in the same way that hipsters use their affection for obscure music, or baristas their knowledge of coffees). The problem of course is that there is ALWAYS someone more hardcore in the dietary world. Vegetarian? Meet the vegan. Vegan? Meet the raw-fooder. Raw-fooder? Meet the fruitarian. Fruitarian? Meet the breatharian. There's no real way to win until you're dead of starvation. Diet's a pretty fucking stupid way to try to demonstrate superiority.

 

That, and after having had similar experiences around animals, it has become abundantly apparent that there is nothing unethical about eating animals that are humanely raised and slaughtered. We call decent treatment "humane" and not "animalistic" for a damned good reason.

[Kurari]

Personally, I'm jealous of your farm. I think that's the way to go, no matter what your diet. You're right in that commercial farming of meat and produce just hurts everyone, and that's the real problem. And that's something vegans can't fix with their diets, no matter how hard they try.

 

I want the family farm system back.

 

Thank you! It's a LOT of back-breaking work but also a lot of fun.

 

I've done a LOT of study on farming. The sanctimonious vegans like to crow to me about how much better their diet is for the environment. Actually, no, it is not. It is actually worse in that respect than cattle farming. While cattle farming is certainly also very destructive and this I don't deny, the amount of pesticides, destruction of soil, destruction of streams and natural ecosystems, and massive fossil fuel necessary to support monoculture crop production destroys the environment at it's very base.

 

Even if everyone went vegan and nobody ate an animal anywhere ever again, the massive destruction of our environment would continue at an even more alarming rate because it would require more of the crappy practices we have in place to grow enough vegetables and grains to support us all...and we'd still lose.

[Akheia]

Saw something about vertical farming yesterday on Cracked.com that was simply fascinating.

[Kurari]

I'm so envious of your little farm. I'd LOVE to have that. I lost 70 pounds 10 years ago on Atkins (my doc put me on it for the same reason yours did you) and have kept the bulk of it off since then.

 

I genuinely think that there's an "ideal diet" for everybody. The reason I think it's tied to biology is that not only is low-carb my ideal diet but it is also my sister's. We both do beautifully on it, lose weight like crazy, and feel good while on it. Others may find their biology works better on veganism or paleo or whatever. The trick is finding out which diet is best for your body!

 

A long time ago I divided vegetarians/vegans into two camps: the "ethical" ones and the "health/taste" ones. The "ethical" ones are the mewling pussies I most despise. There's something in the human psyche that wants to be "more hardcore than thou." It's just a play for superiority. By eschewing animal products, they demonstrate that they are superior to you (in the same way that hipsters use their affection for obscure music, or baristas their knowledge of coffees). The problem of course is that there is ALWAYS someone more hardcore in the dietary world. Vegetarian? Meet the vegan. Vegan? Meet the raw-fooder. Raw-fooder? Meet the fruitarian. Fruitarian? Meet the breatharian. There's no real way to win until you're dead of starvation. Diet's a pretty fucking stupid way to try to demonstrate superiority.

 

That, and after having had similar experiences around animals, it has become abundantly apparent that there is nothing unethical about eating animals that are humanely raised and slaughtered. We call decent treatment "humane" and not "animalistic" for a damned good reason.

 

Wow! Congratulations on your weight loss! How long did it take you to get that weight off?

 

Ugh, even when I was a vegan, I would not tell people I was vegan nor try to bring it up unless absolutely necessary because I'd get the instant side-eye as they wondered if I was one of THOSE vegans. It was a very uncomfortable experience and I didn't want to be associated with "those" types.

 

Diet is definitely as individual as we are. Lots of people can handle low fat, high carb diets with no problems. Many do really, really well on vegan diets. Many people can drink milk without problem. Many people are naturally lean and no matter how much they eat, they don't get fat. Others just smell food and seem to pack on the pounds.

 

There is no one universal diet that is going to fit the whole world.

 

I don't enjoy killing anything, but it has to be done. I can't run a farm like what I have without animals. Without the animals and their vital work to till the soil, perform pest and week control, and amend the soil, the cycle breaks and everything would die. Part of the cycle is that these animals breed, get sick, get hurt, and rely on me to take care of them, and that includes making the decision to end their life. It's a very surreal and intimate moment.

 

Life isn't fair or nice. Killing does have it's place. I think there are three ethical reasons to kill something: Food, protection, and euthanasia.

 

There is never any excuse to be cruel and scare, harrass, torture, or neglect any living being. This is why industrial agriculture pisses me off.

[London]

I really hate the political vegetarians. And I hate when they think that because I'm a vegetarian that I agree with them. You kill cows, I get to wear the leather. I have no issue with that.

 

I think the fact that people choose a healthier way of eating is more important that the fact that it contains meat. You can be healthy and eat meat. The diet of a single human being will change over and over in life. So the "one way" does not even work for an individual, let alone the entire world population.

 

Do I think we should treat animals badly? No. Regardless of their purpose (pets or food) it's wrong. Am I gonna get up in someones face and force you to accept that? No. I'm going to not treat animals that way. That is how I contribute, and I'm gonna report abuse to the authorities when I see it. But I'm not going to believe that my diet is going to stop animal abuse.

 

I lived near Seattle, I know exactly what you have dealt with. Really annoying!

[Akheia]

It took a couple of years to lose the last little bit. I'd made very good friends with some of that fat over the years and it was reluctant to leave But I'm an honest-to-gosh poster girl for Atkins--even wrote up my testimony for them some years ago. Considering how poor my health was before my doctor put me on that diet, it's likely no exaggeration to say that it saved my life. My sister lost damn near 150 pounds doing it herself, but she yoyos a lot. It's very sad. She knows it works, she knows she just about literally MELTS on it, she knows it makes her feel better, but she can't resist cookies and all that processed shit her supremely-indifferent, obese family whines for. For us, low-carb works. I'd *NEVER* presume to make assumptions about it working for everybody though. My best friend and boss tried it after seeing how I was doing on it, and both hated how they felt on it.

 

I joined a CSA (consumer subscription agriculture, or "sub-ag" as my farmer MIL puts it) for a couple of years and it was just eye-opening how good the produce was, but also how different the meat was. It's deeply disturbing to me that what I liked about meat--the taste, the texture--are those exact things that make it so inhumanely gotten. I've seriously cut down on how much meat I eat as a consequence. The texture just bothers me.

[Guest wester]

Me, I have been a pure veg-head for about 20 years.

 

I do it because

 

1) I want to stay out of the hospital. <-period

US hospitals are torture chambers and financial transfer and graft agencies. <-period

95% of the doctors I ever met or worked with were elitist, materialist, consumerist asshats who were in the profession for money, pimping shamelessly for big pharma, putting clients into collections left and right, and have no idea who the hell Hippocrates was.

 

2) I worked for the UFCW United Food and Commercial Worker's Union. I saw and heard directly from people who worked in the industry exactly how factory farm animals are raised. It's like tortured slaves, pumped full of hormones, dyes and medicines. FDA regulation and inspections are a joke. Their approach to mad cow is just like the Ford Pinto - the accountants did the math of inspection versus reported outbreaks. So if we just pretend its not there then its not there.

I am not a masochist. I do not want any of that in my body. That does not make me a nazi.

 

I went like this -

8 years old - mom feeds me a McDonalds hamburger and I spit it out and she threw it on the wall and yelled at me. I quit beef and haven't had it in over 36 years

22 years old - pork is out

25 years old - chicken is out

 

I am stuck in asia where eating meat for generations was considered a luxury.

So now this faux, factory farmed meat [sic] "product" is considered a delicacy.

Hoping to change it is like smashing your head against the wall all day and night.

I gave up long ago.

 

If people want to eat this product that they (erroneously) call "meat", then that is their

right. Just don't expect me to live with the mountains and rivers of animal shit that runs out of these factory "farms" and poisons the ground water, land and environment for everyone, plus all the methane fart clouds that pollute everybody's air, and also expect me to keep my mouth shut so y'all can maintain your relative definition of the word "nazi".

 

Good day...

[blackpudd1n]

I completely agree with the others on here who have said that a diet really depends on what's right for the person in question.

 

I have a very high-carb diet. I don't know of anyone else who eats as much in carbs as I do. Bread and pasta are my staples. And I need them, because I lose weight so quickly without them.

 

I'm not really a fan of junk food. I certainly have my days and my binges, but for the most part, I don't desire fatty or sugary foods, so if I have a craving for something, I go and have it, because I figure that that is what my body needs. The cravings usually end after about a week. Sometimes I crave plain Doritos or chocolate, but more common cravings for me are things like cream cheese and alfalfa on multigrain buns, or pita pockets stuffed with tuna, sour cream, tomatos, shallots, and cheese. Sometimes I just want to fry up some cabbage and sprinkle paprika on top, or eat a bowl of steamed zucchini.

 

by the same token, I go off food in a major way for periods of time, too. Right now, I'm off chocolate, chips, noodles, bacon, eggs... I don't worry about the whole everything-in-moderation bullshit. My body just tells me what it wants, when it wants, and as crazy as everyone else thinks that is, every health professional tells me how fit and healthy I am. Yes, even as a smoker with the flu, those lungs of mine stay annoying clear for the anti-smoking nazis. That blood pressure of mine stays perfect. That cholesterol issue was directly caused by medication and sorted itself out a while after going off the tablets.

 

For the anti-smoking and diet nazis, I am one of those annoying people that they hate. And I only start having problems if I try to do things differently with my diet. I tried a few times to be vegetarian, an ova-lacta fish-eating vegie to be precise, with a nutritionist guiding me, but every time, I got anaemic. And I once tried the Atkins diet, and just lost weight way too quickly, and way too much. So I just listen to my body, and I've been fine ever since.

[Akheia]

BO, that's exactly what happened to me! My fasting blood sugar was about 270 and my A1C was 17. I'm not sure what kept me from being diagnosed as Type 2, but apparently there was one criteria out of several that simply wasn't met. A year later everything was well into the normal range (don't remember what the fasting blood sugar got to but want to say 70, and the A1C was 7; cholesterol went from about 250 to 150 and triglycerides went from scary to normal; BP went from scary to textbook too). My doctor had initially suggested Sugar Busters and supported me doing Atkins provided I did regular bloodwork, so that's how I knew about the changes. And slowly, one by one, I was taken off the half-dozen medications I was on for weight-related issues. To me those changes meant more than my pants size dwindling. I used to say I was fat but fit, that I was perfectly healthy despite my ballooning size, but I had no idea what healthy felt like till I lost weight and realized that THIS was what normal was supposed to feel like.

 

Don't think I don't sometimes think about what would have happened if I hadn't gone to the doctor before starting to lose weight. I wouldn't know how close I was to diabetes and that I needed to take this effort extra-dextra seriously. I just went because I had insurance and that's what everybody says, go to the doctor before you lose weight if you have a lot to lose. Little wonder people half-ass weight loss.

 

On the other side I've known someone like BP who is stick-thin and eats a loaf of fancy artisan bread a day at work (and another at home apparently along with all the other food she eats). I don't even want to think about the heartburn I'd get if I tried that! I'm grateful that we are advanced enough in food science to be able to explore all these different eating styles and find what works best for our individual bodies. Wow, sounds like religion, doesn't it?

[RankStranger]

We humans are like this about all kinds of things. Religion, politics, diet, vehicles, computers, movies- there's always a fan-boy ready to tell you why HIS opinion is the right one. I think it's a part of our culture- not sure where else this compulsion to bring other people around to our own ideas comes from. I've found myself reflexively doing the same thing on occasion- though it's something I try to avoid. Because I don't appreciate it when other people get preachy.

 

As for diet, I eat pretty much everything in sight. I have no conscious discipline in the matter. But luckily as I get older, my tastes lean strongly towards non-processed meat and non-starchy veggies. I avoid fast-food and wal-mart meat when I can... simply because the home-grown/home-cooked stuff is so much better IMO- it's more a matter of taste than health-consciousness.

[Akheia]

I think it's a search for validation, RS, and maybe just yet another attempt by humans to put people into "us" versus "them" camps. And an over-investment in one's chosen ideology, so that if someone doesn't validate that choice by agreeing with it and following it as well, it feels like a personal attack. Right now we've got a perfect storm brewing for hostility and egocentrism. I'm sure BO and I both know plenty of people who think that EVERYBODY should do low-carb. I know plenty of people who get their panties bunched at the idea that everybody isn't vegan. Or paleo. Or fundamentalist. Or polyamorous. Or atheistic. There's just no room for others to have their own way of handling these big life questions.