I Hate Dietary Elitists

[Mudhoney]

Dietary elitists can come from any group, but I understand what you're saying. The vegans are giving you grief. For me, I mainly get hassled by family members about my vegan diet. My close friends could care less (they are varied in their diets) and acquaintances do not know because I don't discuss my diet with them. I have been told on different occasions (by family and former church members) that it is unhealthy, un-American, and un-xtian. Most everyone on both sides would like to see the end of factory farming as it exists today.

[florduh]

http://www.forbes.co...iest-foods.html

 

 

What is the best diet for human beings?

 

Vegetarian? Vegan? High-protein? Low-fat? Dairy-Free?

 

Hold on to your shopping carts: There is no perfect diet for human beings. At least not one that's based on how much protein, fat or carbohydrates you eat.

 

People have lived and thrived on high-protein, high-fat diets (the Inuit of Greenland); on low-protein, high-carb diets (the indigenous peoples of southern Africa); on diets high in raw milk and cream (the people of the Loetschental Valley in Switzerland); diets high in saturated fat (the Trobriand Islanders) and even on diets in which animal blood is considered a staple (the Massai of Kenya and Tanzania). And folks have thrived on these diets without the ravages of degenerative diseases that are so epidemic in modern life--heart disease, diabetes, obesity, neurodegenerative diseases, osteoporosis and cancer.

[mwc]

I eat like crap. Suck it.

 

mwc

[Kurari]

Me, I have been a pure veg-head for about 20 years.

 

I do it because

 

1) I want to stay out of the hospital. <-period

US hospitals are torture chambers and financial transfer and graft agencies. <-period

95% of the doctors I ever met or worked with were elitist, materialist, consumerist asshats who were in the profession for money, pimping shamelessly for big pharma, putting clients into collections left and right, and have no idea who the hell Hippocrates was.

 

2) I worked for the UFCW United Food and Commercial Worker's Union. I saw and heard directly from people who worked in the industry exactly how factory farm animals are raised. It's like tortured slaves, pumped full of hormones, dyes and medicines. FDA regulation and inspections are a joke. Their approach to mad cow is just like the Ford Pinto - the accountants did the math of inspection versus reported outbreaks. So if we just pretend its not there then its not there.

I am not a masochist. I do not want any of that in my body. That does not make me a nazi.

 

I went like this -

8 years old - mom feeds me a McDonalds hamburger and I spit it out and she threw it on the wall and yelled at me. I quit beef and haven't had it in over 36 years

22 years old - pork is out

25 years old - chicken is out

 

I am stuck in asia where eating meat for generations was considered a luxury.

So now this faux, factory farmed meat [sic] "product" is considered a delicacy.

Hoping to change it is like smashing your head against the wall all day and night.

I gave up long ago.

 

If people want to eat this product that they (erroneously) call "meat", then that is their

right. Just don't expect me to live with the mountains and rivers of animal shit that runs out of these factory "farms" and poisons the ground water, land and environment for everyone, plus all the methane fart clouds that pollute everybody's air, and also expect me to keep my mouth shut so y'all can maintain your relative definition of the word "nazi".

 

Good day...

 

Problem is, your vegetables are being bathed in pesticides, gas, and noxious "preservative" oils. The nutrients are being stripped from the ground with each harvest. Forests are being cleared so farmers can grow ONE type of crop. Soil and chemicals run into the rivers and kills fish. Vital microclimates are ripped up and destroyed and not put back.

 

You are still putting trash in your body. I really don't care if you are vegetarian, but don't delude yourself into thinking your food is better than factory farms. Animals are still dying for your food in really horrible fashions. If you want to be vocal, be vocal about both meat and plant farming practices.

[Kurari]

Dietary elitists can come from any group, but I understand what you're saying. The vegans are giving you grief. For me, I mainly get hassled by family members about my vegan diet. My close friends could care less (they are varied in their diets) and acquaintances do not know because I don't discuss my diet with them. I have been told on different occasions (by family and former church members) that it is unhealthy, un-American, and un-xtian. Most everyone on both sides would like to see the end of factory farming as it exists today.

 

I'm sorry you're having to go through that. NOBODY should get crap over their lunch, for whatever reason. I got a lot of that crap when I was eating vegan too. We just can't win, can we?

[florduh]

If we were to take everyone's dietary advice seriously, we would starve. We are very lucky among the world's population that we have the luxury of eliminating foods as a fashion statement or political position.

[London]

http://www.forbes.co...iest-foods.html

 

 

What is the best diet for human beings?

 

That's an awesome article. I've been trying to completely eliminate processed foods. It will never happen, some things are so yummy! But cutting most of them out in favor of natural foods has made a difference for me.

 

I have two friends who cannot exist on a vegetarian diet, they just get ill. I think nutrition (and everything else in life) is really about what works for you. There is nothing I hate more than some schmuck who suddenly blathers on about the next fad "grapefruit" diet or what ever.

 

"If you consume 5 lbs of grapefruit while wearing white socks every day for 9 months your life will be magically perfect."

 

At some point you just have to tell people to fuck off with the stupidness.

 

Damn! I forgot to take off my white socks while writing this post!

 

It's not about what we consume, it's about how we live our lives that matters. You can eat all the healthy food you want, but sitting in the recliner all day and night is not gonna help. You can eat like complete shit and exercise like crazy and you will still live quite long.

 

Critical thinking is actually a very healthy diet.

[Ro-bear]

Kurari,

 

Back in May of 2009, I was diagnosed as a full type 2 diabetic. My fasting blood sugar was at 267 and my A1C was 11. The doctors didn't tell me jack shit. I had a friend who has been diabetic for over 50 years and he put me on Atkins. I stay on it because if I even taste anything that is carbs or sugars, my blood sugar spikes to over 140. Since being on my low to no carb diet, my average fasting blood sugar has been mostly between 90 to 115 and my A1C has been below 6. Even my cholesterol has just been slightly above 100 both LDL and HDL average. My triglycerides have been nearly perfect. I have not even so much as tasted bread, potatoes, rice, beans, or even any sweet fruit since 2009. All I can say is it works! I have even silenced smart-assed nutritionists when I tell them how I control my diabetes and show them my test results. They are dumb founded.

 

I am glad this has worked so well for you. But even more than that, I am in awe of your willpower. I don't think I could do it.

[Vigile]

Maybe because docs have told me protein intake is so bad for my kidneys I have a skewed view on this one, but I can't help but think Atkin's is going to have adverse health effects over the long run. It seems to me that if you can't eat any carbs (something that most docs agree is a necessary part of our diet) any dietary solution is just a temporary bandaid that is going to lead to other problems down the road. Dunno, but I'm skeptical.

[Akheia]

Obesity would probably have way worse effects over the long run. Like BO, I didn't find it hard at all to do the diet. If I hadn't done it, I'd have become diabetic. I was too scared of needles to care at that point.

 

There are people in the world who eat like this routinely, as others on this thread have so eloquently pointed out, and manage to stay healthy for their lifetimes. What I think matters more than what your diet is called is what's in it. Even when I was on Induction in Atkins and eating 2500 calories a day and losing about 3/4 lb a day on it, not a single one of those calories was processed. It was all fresh organic meat, fresh veggies, all that good stuff, cooked from scratch. I never really got into the Atkins processed crap food or supplement mania; I just took a multi for the few things I wasn't getting from my food. According to FitDay, I was getting 100% of everything (I kept a food diary there mostly to assuage the fears of my mother and sister; they apparently checked on me frequently). And my doctor kept a close eye on my bloodwork; I had it done every three or four months for a year.

 

I've got a hypothesis that people who do run into long-term problems on any eating style are still eating the processed shit. I suspect that a lot of the trouble modern humans have comes of eating refined and chemical-treated foods. Our modern food production and delivery system is nothing short of a world wonder, but it has some distinct drawbacks. We're stuffing our faces, but not really nourishing our bodies. Just because it can be chewed and swallowed down without immediately killing us, as Pollan's written, doesn't mean it's really food. That book with the formula "eat food, not too much, mostly plants" thingie on it, forget the name right now, really made a good case for long-term illness being related to the modern factory-farm-derived diet.

[Vigile]

Obesity would probably have way worse effects over the long run.

 

I imagine it might, but obesity doesn't have to be the other side of the equation here. I do know from my doctors that protein makes your kidneys work harder and I also know that diabetes compromises kidneys, so this, in my layman FWIW opinion, doesn't seem like a very good combination.

 

Here's what I'm thinking. When your pancreas fails, it fails to produce insulin, so I don't understand why avoiding insulin replacement therapy by not severely reducing carb intake is a more natural, and thus safer long run solution. When you reduce your diet primarily to protein, it seems you are just making other parts of your body work much harder, which could cause problems in at least some people. The traditional method of watching your diet and taking insulin seems to me to be the lowest risk, most conservative approach here.

 

There are people in the world who eat like this routinely, as others on this thread have so eloquently pointed out

 

I watched a documentary of the South Pole explorer boat that was stranded in ice for 2 years (forget the name of the expedition). The crew survived on a high fat/protein diet, but a large number of them also suffered kidney failure. Inuits, etc... have had thousands of years to adapt to such diets. I don't believe all humans are created equal when it comes to dietary needs or dietary tolerance. Again, just my layman's opinion. You can disagree with my logic and I won't be offended.

[Akheia]

I'm not offended. As you've just said, different body types are adapted to different diets. Clearly when someone tries to force his/her body into a diet that wasn't its preference, bad things happen. My body seems very well-suited to a low-carb, higher-protein diet than, say, a vegan's. With the modern age's shuffling-up of people, hell, I have no clue in the world what's in my family tree, but whatever it was, it thrives on this sort of food. The trick I think is to find out what that diet is that your body wants most.

 

I'm afraid the jury's distinctly not agreeing with your assessment of long-term risks of the Atkins Diet; I've seen like one study that MAYBE pointed to some issues, but most don't find any link between an Atkins-style diet and any long-term health effects and many found that as a diet system it works remarkably well for weight loss. One must be willing to re-assess opinions based on facts. You can bet I read a fuckload of pro- and anti-Atkins stuff before diving in, and I still keep up with news about it. So far nothing's come out about long-term adverse effects. I'm always willing to change my mind if I see something definitive, but so far, nada. Waving suspicions and theories around is all fine, but in the end, facts must rule.

 

What I don't think is that humans are supposed to be eating diets of mostly factory-farmed corn, soy, stripped-down wheat, and sugar. They weren't meant to live on crap from vending machines and packaged in jars and cans. I think there's a lot more to be said for the long-term dangers of a Standard American Diet than for the dangers of eating fresh fruits/veggies, humanely-killed meat, and organic dairy products. OH NOES I'M DOOMED! Guess I should throw out my homemade ricotta lasagna, almond-milk strawberry pudding, and fresh-baked 100% whole wheat bread and go get some chips and dip!

[Vigile]

Waving suspicions and theories around is all fine, but in the end, facts must rule.

 

Completely agree, but I still have my suspicions in regard to diabetics; especially those who already suffer some kidney damage. I'm not basing this on a direct study, but on counseling I've received from my nephrologists both here and in the US. I'm sure Nivek can back me up on this as he's gone through the same issues as I here.

[Akheia]

Ah, ok, we're just talking apples and oranges (or strawberries and Bing cherries for the low-carbers among us). I don't know what the research is regarding a low-carb/high-fat/high-protein diet is with regard to people who are already diabetic or who suffer kidney damage. I'd suspect--without proof, it must be said--that they would indeed have some concerns and considerations that non-diabetics or non-kidney-damaged people don't have to worry about, much like immuno-compromised people have to worry about stuff that non-compromised people don't have to think twice about. For people that aren't already suffering those problems, no research I've ever seen has indicated they've got a thing to worry about on such a diet. That said, I have seen some papers saying that a low-carb diet can reverse type 2 and pre-diabetes, which it did for my own insulin resistance. I think dietary nutrition is a fascinating field If your nephrologist tells you to do something, of course, there's a good chance it's for a good reason! But by and large I'd say there aren't any ill effects based on current research.

[florduh]

It seems that a suddenly adopted extreme diet can help one condition while causing damage elsewhere. For example, suddenly diving into the current fad of antioxidants such as green tea and hopping on the Vitamin D fad can cause kidney stones in some people. I imagine the system suddenly trying to function without fiber in the diet could cause some issues. Eventually, one could probably adapt.

 

As far as I know, the jury is still out on Atkins, as the first long term study began about ten years ago. I doubt many dieters have stayed on the diet for longer than a few months, so reported negative effects would be minimal. So far we know Atkins paradoxically reduces cholesterol levels, but there are reports of kidney damage as well. Hell, my father-in-law was 6'4" and weighed 145 lbs. He lived to a healthy 80-something eating as much meat, eggs and fat as possible - he'd even eat the fat other people cut off their pork chops. Who knows what will work?

[Vigile]

I'd suspect--without proof, it must be said--that they would indeed have some concerns and considerations that non-diabetics or non-kidney-damaged people don't have to worry about,

 

Indeed. And in fact there is a lot of proof that people with compromised kidneys need to reduce their protein intake. My nephrologist has me on a 70gram/day protein limit.

[Akheia]

Anybody else remember that old Connie Willis short story, "Even the Queen," where the ladies-who-lunched all had different weird diets? I bet Willis didn't even know there are real fruitarians in the world. I didn't either till I ran across a website that talked extensively about it and linked to all these studies about it. Very eye-opening. I can say this: for me, the absolutely certain risks of remaining obese were way worse to contemplate than the risks of maybe--one day--possibly--anecdotally--perhaps developing some other issue down the line. I tried a couple of other things at my doctor's request before deciding to go with Atkins, from a simple no sugar/no refined starches thing (which gave me epic cravings and packed on another 10 pounds in, I kid you not, ONE MONTH), to medications (which gave me heart palpitations; one of these recently got pulled from the market). It's not like I plunged into it without trying less "extreme" things. But really, it wasn't that extreme. I cut grains and sugar as well as processed shit out of my diet. Right now we're having a nice big national experiment on doing exactly the opposite, and I can look out my window at the huffing-and-puffing pudgy suburbanite children walking past to see how well that's working.

[florduh]

The ultimate fad diet:

 

http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/breathe_light/breatharianism.html

 

Enjoy!

[Vigile]

The ultimate fad diet:

 

http://www.angelfire...tharianism.html

 

Enjoy!

 

One of my favorite authors wrote about this in his futuristic novel where the human race has been genetically modified to exist on minerals, water and sunlight.

 

The Possibility of an Island

Michel Houellebecq (Author), Gavin Bowd (Translator)

[blackpudd1n]

There's a price to pay for everything in life, including what diet you choose. It's just a matter of weighing up the pros against the cons for each individual.

 

Take my bipolar medication, for instance. It's a bitch in summer, because it makes me overheat. It makes my hands shake a little all the time. I have a long-term risk of diabetes and liver complications (which is why I don't drink). But the benefits far outweigh the negative side-affects and risks, and, for now, it works for me. So I take it.

 

Choosing to remain on a particular diet is no different, and I'm pretty sure that in the days before Low GI diets and diabetes medication, diabetics were on a diet similar to the Atkins Diet. I could be wrong, I just remember a conversation about it with a diabetic I knew when I was younger. I was having issues with my blood sugar at the time, and had been incorrectly diagnosed as hypoglycaemic. Then I moved here, and my local doctor happened to be the endocrine expert for my area, and it just so happens that because I'm thin, I've got no reserves, so when I run out of energy to burn, I get sugar lows. That's all.

[London]

The ultimate fad diet:

 

http://www.angelfire...tharianism.html

 

Enjoy!

 

I know a whole group of people who were on that diet, they live in the huge cemetary down the street. Really, really nice people. And quiet too.

[Akheia]

Yeah, the leader of that weird diet has been caught eating food a few times. Her excuse: "Big Macs aren't actually food so it doesn't count." The breatharians sicken me as much as those churches who tell parents to kill their kids trying to cure them with prayer--they're also espousing something really unhealthy, but dude, at least the church is quite sincere. Not these clowns. They're fucking lying about doing it. I say, go big or go home, kiddos.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breatharian#Wiley_Brooks

[mwc]

Take my bipolar medication, for instance. It's a bitch in summer, because it makes me overheat. It makes my hands shake a little all the time. I have a long-term risk of diabetes and liver complications (which is why I don't drink). But the benefits far outweigh the negative side-affects and risks, and, for now, it works for me. So I take it.

As I recall I take the same med but for a different reason. It's shitty isn't it? I can relate to some of these things (I have to go in probably next week for my blood tests for liver and kidney functions and all that just because of these meds).

 

I've also taken meds in the past where I've gained 30 pounds on two different occasions (I was already about 30 pounds overweight) I gained another 30 from meds then I eventually lost that weight after going off the meds. Went onto another pill and gained 30. Went off that med and started losing that weight then went on to my current cocktail of drugs and nothing has taken that weight off (I stick where I am no matter what I change in diet and/or exercise so I just do what I want now).

 

mwc

[blackpudd1n]

Take my bipolar medication, for instance. It's a bitch in summer, because it makes me overheat. It makes my hands shake a little all the time. I have a long-term risk of diabetes and liver complications (which is why I don't drink). But the benefits far outweigh the negative side-affects and risks, and, for now, it works for me. So I take it.

As I recall I take the same med but for a different reason. It's shitty isn't it? I can relate to some of these things (I have to go in probably next week for my blood tests for liver and kidney functions and all that just because of these meds).

 

I've also taken meds in the past where I've gained 30 pounds on two different occasions (I was already about 30 pounds overweight) I gained another 30 from meds then I eventually lost that weight after going off the meds. Went onto another pill and gained 30. Went off that med and started losing that weight then went on to my current cocktail of drugs and nothing has taken that weight off (I stick where I am no matter what I change in diet and/or exercise so I just do what I want now).

 

mwc

 

Dude, I gained 35kg on on one medcation. That's like 77 pounds in imperial. I've never been that heavy in my life. I was just lucky that when I switched to another medication, it all slowly came off over the course of about 18 months or so. So far, all of the four medications I've been on have been meant to make me gain weight, but that one was the only one that ever did.

[mwc]

Dude, I gained 35kg on on one medcation. That's like 77 pounds in imperial. I've never been that heavy in my life. I was just lucky that when I switched to another medication, it all slowly came off over the course of about 18 months or so. So far, all of the four medications I've been on have been meant to make me gain weight, but that one was the only one that ever did.

Wow. I was always told that there's probably no chance of anything bad or anything (this was in the 90's when much of this happened) and so I was just blamed. The first time I gained weight I craved sweets like crazy (which I never do). So my fault? The second time I never changed my diet one tiny bit. Nothing at all. I still gained all that weight. At least it started to come off (like I said). These pills can do crazy shit to a person and it can do different things to different people.

 

mwc