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Pre Fall Of Satan, Pre Creation And Post Creation Evil Show That The Bible God Is Self Refuting. (Comments Criticism, Please!)


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Guest Valk0010

I have a question for you thumb.

 

What would it take for you to decide christianity is in error?

 

I don't ask this out of desperation. Just curiousity. A person as full of in the box thinking as yourself, would probably answer "Nothing." But I am just wondering what your answer would be.

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So you're saying heaven is of this universe?

 

 

 

 

Yes. Some think that it may be located around Orion's belt.

 

 

 

How can a God be omniscient, meaning he knows everything about creation before it's created, yet still allow free will?

 

 

Look up the definitions for foreknow and predestine and compare them. God made a PROVISION for ALL to be saved but not all will CHOOSE to be saved. (See John 3:16)

 

 

 

God knows the outcome, he could've skipped all of this and just went ahead and sent those of us he KNEW would rebel to hell right then and there. There's no point in giving us a choice if he already knows what we'll choose.

 

 

Other worlds are looking at this sin thing, they now understand what it's about from watching us. If God just made hell as soon as sin appeared they would be frightened of Him and only serve Him from fear and not love.

 

 

 

According to the bible I'm a sinner by birth. So let's say I died a baby. You're telling my I earned death and eternal torment?

 

Babies are selfish from birth, they die the 1st death like all other humans. I was referring to the second death which is destruction by hellfire, NO baby earned that.

 

 

 

And there you go again, telling me I never assimilated that lifestyle. Tell me more about what I believe,

 

 

^^

This right here is why I'm being cautious, you now remind me of a certain athiest around here. I did not say that and you KNOW it.

 

If heaven is located around Orions Belt, then that means it is accessible to mortal life. Not to mention, we have the technology to see deep into space. If heaven were there, don't you think we'd have seen it or found it by now? You're honestly the first person I've ever heard say that heaven is around Orions Belt. That must mean hell is the center of the earth, right?

 

The next question you didn't even answer.

 

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "other worlds are looking at this sin thing." I'm beginning to see what the others mean when they were warning of intelligent discussion with you. You're interpretation of the bible is certainly unique. And I don't see how it makes a difference when hell was made. It's clearly a scare tactic either way.

 

"Thumbelina says: Babies are selfish from birth." Quite an insight there Thumb. You're right, when that baby comes out, the only thing it's worried about is what it can take from it's mother. Wendytwitch.gif Honestly, you're ridiculous. Babies aren't able to process the thought of being selfish. The only thing on a newborn babies mind is surviving. How you could possibly presume that every child that comes out of the womb is evil and instantaneously selfish is outrageous.

 

Look, I could waste the rest of my break time at work typing up a post about how eschewed your views of the world are, but we both know it'd be a waste of time, simply because both of us are passionate about our views, and obviously neither of us will change the other's opinions. Thanks for the debate, but I shall now take the advice of the others on this forum and take my leave. Good luck!zDuivel7.gif

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So you're saying heaven is of this universe?

 

 

 

 

Yes. Some think that it may be located around Orion's belt.

 

 

Here?

 

http://en.wikipedia....rion's_Belt

 

Hmmm... the amateur astronomer in me wonders, why there? huh.png

 

If space and time are no obstacles to God, why couldn't the location of heaven be here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3C_273 ...which is 2.4 billion light years from us? Or here... http://en.wikipedia....roxima_Centauri ...which is the closest star to our Sun, at 4.24 light years away?

 

Perhaps heaven's location has got something to do with this passage?

 

Job 38 : 31 - 33, NIV.

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?

Can you loosen Orion’s belt?

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons

or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

 

Here's some additional info, just for your interest Thumbelina.

 

The Pleiades, in the constellation Taurus, the Bull. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades

The Great Bear, also known as Ursa Major. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ursa_Major

The Lesser Bear, also known as Ursa Minor. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ursa_Minor

 

Btw, a fellow Creationist has something to say about Job... http://www.creationd...s/anctastr.html ...but sadly it looks like he made a typo. There is no Job 38:42. Ooops!

 

Oh and the Christian who runs this forum... http://biblocality.c...orums/forum.php ...thinks he knows where God will locate the New Jerusalem, which is described in Revelation 21. He reckons it'll be on the summit of this mountain... http://en.wikipedia....ki/Olympus_Mons ...which is on the planet Mars.

 

Just thought you might like to know these things. smile.png

 

So, if you could get back to me about why heaven might be around Orion's belt and if the Job verses are significant, I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Other worlds are looking at this sin thing, they now understand what it's about from watching us. If God just made hell as soon as sin appeared they would be frightened of Him and only serve Him from fear and not love.

 

 

Other worlds, huh?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perelandra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barsoom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuggoth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminiar_VII

 

Any of these?

 

BAA.

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Heaven in Orion's Belt? Ok go take your meds now. Is hell inside a black hole now? What happens when the universe stretches itself to the point where everything is expanding faster than the speed of light and all goes dark?

 

You have said alot here that is completely unscientific, for one, test show babies favor natural altruism over selfishness. No where in the bible does it indicate Babies get a free pass, its only you refusing to accept something so immoral.

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You don't give me anything to disprove Christianity, you do the opposite, you buttress my faith and prove the bible true. I see a lack of understanding of biblical concepts on your part. I had personal experiences with God that no one can take away from me. Atheists see me as having my head in the sand and I see them the same way but I tend to like them despite that.

 

Why do I come here? I don't know. I see a lot of biblical misunderstandings and I kinda like bugging some folks on here.

 

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and other people see and will see the gospel and understand/will understand why God allowed evil.

 

This is exceptional. This is extraordinary. When a rational person shows her why her ideas must be irrefutably wrong Thumby deludes hereself into thinking the Bible and her religion were just proven to be correct. Her perception is whack. That is what Christianity does to the mind.

 

 

(p.s. Science has allowed us to learn that Orion's Belt is an optical illusion. The men who wrote the Bible were ignorant of that fact. The Bible is full of ignorance. Time and time again they say things that are not true. Looking like a fool is the danger of asserting your god knows everything when your god is imaginary. On the other hand science does not know everything. But it is a tool that allows us to gain some real knowledge bit by bit. Over time those bits add up.)

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There's a DIFFERENCE between envy an jealousy, look it up!

You miss the point totally.

 

Then explain it better.

If I did, it wouldn't make a difference. No matter what fact, or logical point I make you will still say "god is love." You remind me of the guy from monty python, who says "only a flesh wound."

 

Its not my duty to convince someone who has there head in sand.

 

If you're honestly not willing to change your mind on Christianity? I get believing strongly, but believe in spite of any evidence to the contrary is madness.

 

Why do you bother coming here?

 

You often don't see how much your talking to your own echo chamber. What you saying only makes sense in your own head.

 

 

You don't give me anything to disprove Christianity, you do the opposite, you buttress my faith and prove the bible true. I see a lack of understanding of biblical concepts on your part. I had personal experiences with God that no one can take away from me. Atheists see me as having my head in the sand and I see them the same way but I tend to like them despite that.

 

Why do I come here? I don't know. I see a lot of biblical misunderstandings and I kinda like bugging some folks on here.

 

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned and other people see and will see the gospel and understand/will understand why God allowed evil.

 

Wow! You had a spiritual experience! You want a gold star! You make me absolutely sick. This is what you fall too, you can give no reason why God is compatible with evil and so you fall to the "well i had an experience and you cant take that away from me." We give no evidence against Christianity? the very fact you can give nothing to defend yourself shows the contrary.

 

I quite wonder how much bullshit theology you have that is unbiblical, i think a major indication that your theological view crawled out of the same sewage shit pipe you did is indicated by the fact you think Heaven is in Orions belt. You know who else thinks Orions belt is significant? The ancient alien folk.

 

Sorry i don't mean to be an ass, but do not fall to the "I had en experience."

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Perhaps heaven's location has got something to do with this passage?

 

Job 38 : 31 - 33, NIV.

31 “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?

Can you loosen Orion’s belt?

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons

or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?

 

Here's some additional info, just for your interest Thumbelina.

 

The Pleiades, in the constellation Taurus, the Bull. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades

The Great Bear, also known as Ursa Major. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ursa_Major

The Lesser Bear, also known as Ursa Minor. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ursa_Minor

 

Btw, a fellow Creationist has something to say about Job... http://www.creationd...s/anctastr.html ...but sadly it looks like he made a typo. There is no Job 38:42. Ooops!

 

Oh and the Christian who runs this forum... http://biblocality.c...orums/forum.php ...thinks he knows where God will locate the New Jerusalem, which is described in Revelation 21. He reckons it'll be on the summit of this mountain... http://en.wikipedia....ki/Olympus_Mons ...which is on the planet Mars.

 

Just thought you might like to know these things. smile.png

 

So, if you could get back to me about why heaven might be around Orion's belt and if the Job verses are significant, I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

I find it interesting that the entire end of Job is filled with God asking riddles regarding things which science has since given us a very good understanding. We know why the tide comes in and goes out. We know why the Moon and Earth are in their respective places. We know why the ocean is in certain places and dry land in others. I could go down the entire list. This goes hand in hand with the story of Bable in Genesis where God "knew" building a tall structure would allow us to reach heaven. Well, we have now built towers several times higher than anything our Bronze Age ancestors could have ever done. Time and time again the Bronze Age ignorance in the Bible turns out to be false. But I'm sure Thumby will explain to everyone how this just proves, yet again, that the Bible is true. She won't explain why. We just have to trust her. We can see it if only we will trust that it is true. Ya just have to want to see it. Too funny!

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. Atheists see me as having my head in the sand and I see them the same way but I tend to like them despite that.

 

 

Your head is somewhere, probably not in the sand.

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LOL! I have never heard of heaven in Orions belt.yelrotflmao.gif Thats as absurd as god "stretches out the heavens like a curtain" implying that the universe is expanding. Every new discovery science makes some stupid xian will hunt for a correlation in the bible and take it completely out of context.

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Thumbelina is always good for a laugh.

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Look up the definitions for foreknow and predestine and compare them. God made a PROVISION for ALL to be saved but not all will CHOOSE to be saved. (See John 3:16)

If you actually do compare them, you'll find that God predestines some people to their belief.

 

Eph 1:4-5

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

In the case of these people, God not only knows ahead of time, he already determined the outcome according to his will.

Their will and choice has nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

That's preposterous. God chooses certain people to perform certain roles or functions but He died for ALL. The text is referring to people (i.e ANYBODY) who accept God's entreaties to salvation. He said His word will NOT return to Him void, however, He still factors in people's freedom to choose.

I keep telling you, beloved, that God does not play favorites, He died for the world and He does not want ANY to perish. :( He knows He won't get His wish though.

He knows everything and He already knew who would choose Him but He's not forcing anyone to do so.

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Thumbelina said: I agree with that video up to a certain point. I'm an atheist against that type of God too. Gospel means good news and good news is NOT burning beings through the ceaseless ages while the righteous frolic, that is a preposterous idea that was contrived in the mind of Satan himself. That type of God will be a monster!

 

Frightened Centauri said: Interesting.So Rev John Hagee, a hero of Glenn Beck and evangelicals, is preaching a gospel that was contrived in the mind of Satan.

 

Yes, maybe unknowingly but yes.

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Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

That tree was/is beautiful, they ate from it. The angels had to block it to stop 'em from living any longer, it would seem that if they kept eating they would have kept living.

 

 

Yeah, god said they may eat freely of any tree. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY LITERALLY ATE FROM EVERY TREE. Again, you assume facts. We're done. Agree to Disagree.

 

I know you see dogmatism but it's because there are interlocking doctrines that you are just not privy to that strongly implies (though not explicitly stated ) that they ate from the tree of life. That's why the bible says one needs spiritual ears to get insight into it's teachings. Using secular methodologies all by themselves to interpret scripture just won't cut it.

Of course you are allowed to disagree! My God is a God of choice, it shows that from the beginning, the two trees offered choice. Thanks Chicky for having a discussion with me. I actually got a lioness to chat! smile.png It's usually the lions that are always yammerin' biggrin.png

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I write this for whomever hath an ear, God did not forbid Adam and Eve from eating from the tree of life in the Garden of Eden, in fact He told them they can FREELY eat from it. A bible student (which all believers should be) knows that to understand a particular biblical teaching one must look at what the entire bible says on any given topic. The tree of life was and will be a very prominent part of sustaining man. It also had and will have major spiritual significance. There was no written language in the beginning, one would suppose Adam and Eve had photographic memories. I firmly believe the tree of life represented God's law ( The Cherub guarding the Garden gives insight into this. One would look up the role of Cherubs) and God's law represents His character. Ps. 138:2 says that God exalts His word above His name, it does not mean God's name is not important but that His character defines His name. God's law is IMMUTABLE so if God had permitted Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life after they sinned He would have been sanctioning sin and therefore immortalizing it.

Living was conditional upon obedience to God's law and prior to Adam and Eve sinning there would have been no reason to stop them from eating from the tree which was and will be needed to sustain man. Some believe that it would have taken one dose of the tree to make man immortal, well if that's the case then why does it say in the book of Revelation that the redeemed will be eating from the tree on a continual basis? The people who are proponents of one time eating of the tree of life to gain immortality are perhaps inadvertently promoting Satan's lie that man is innately immortal (zomberina perhaps inadvertently did this when she said that God was not needed in the Garden of Eden). Natural immortality is a lie Satan told from the beginning. Other forms of the lie of natural immortality is reincarnation and the doctrine of a ever hell that says people would burn forever. The only how a being can burn forever is if they are innately immortal and no created being has that.

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...

 

Secular methodologies Sweetie Pie, secular methodologies.

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I have a question for you thumb.

 

What would it take for you to decide christianity is in error?

 

I don't ask this out of desperation. Just curiousity. A person as full of in the box thinking as yourself, would probably answer "Nothing." But I am just wondering what your answer would be.

 

 

Well, I'll have to have my frontal lobe completely knocked out, somewhat like Phineas Gage's but worse than that. I'd also have to be blind, dumb and deaf too. But even then God can work something out. Creation testifies of a Creator and I know He loves me.

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You're honestly the first person I've ever heard say that heaven is located around Orions Belt, then that means it is accessible to mortal life. Not to mention, we have the technology to see deep into space. If heaven were there, don't you think we'd have seen it or found it by now?

 

 

 

Scientists also know that the parts of space that are dark contains more stars, galaxies etc than what is actually in the visible portions of space. There is MUCH that is CLOAKED.

 

 

 

 

That must mean hell is the center of the earth, right?

 

Hell does not exist yet. Hell will be Hitler standing in God's presence and combusting into flames because he had evil deeds that he did not take to the cross. Now, picture Hitler x a gazillion other people who rejected salvation (Pol Pot, Cain, Judas, Jezebel ... and every one of the devils) all combusting at the SAME time and thus forming a lake of fire. That IS what hell WILL be (future tense). Why should Cain get punished longer for committing a lesser crime than Hitler? The bible said one will be rewarded according to their works and Hitler's works were WORSE. Besides, hell will be this entire planet going up in flames, we are still here are we not? sad.pngGod's EXPRESSED will was not to destroy His creatures, The bible says it will be His strange act, He has NO pleasure in the death of the wicked. God will be crying I'm imagining it and the redeemed will definitely be crying: Rev 21:4 sad.png Some of their loved ones would have rejected salvation.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "other worlds are looking at this sin thing.

 

The bible says that we are being watched, the universe is looking at us to see how we are faring by disobeying God's laws. We're doing horribly, aren't we? The stronger hurts the weaker etc.They won't want to try this at home. Orion's belt is also a good vantage point to see what's going on down here, huh? Also in the book of Job where the representatives from other worlds were meeting, Satan had to represent us when Adam should have been the one to do so. Again, a good vantage point to see what's going on down here.

 

 

 

 

 

Babies are selfish from birth ...

 

That's their basic nature. Raise them by spoiling them and you'll see what you'll get. Though God's image is not totally obliterated in us so it isn't all bad. Did I say the babies are cognizant of their selfish ways and are still being like that anyway? Don't put words in my mouth, m'kay?

 

 

 

The only thing on a newborn babies mind is surviving.

 

 

Exactly, it's survival of the fittest AT TIMES (do you see how they ball their little fists and scream when upset? they want what they want even if they don't need it), that's why they gotta be small and helpless.

 

 

 

 

... it'd be a waste of time,simply because both of us are passionate about our views, and obviously neither of us will change the other's opinions. Thanks for the debate, but I shall now take the advice of the others on this forum and take my leave. Good luck!

 

I know , you don't have your heart circumcised and all, spiritually speaking. Thank you and I hope you find God and His love, it's there for the taking.

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About heaven being located around Orion's belt, I don't know much about it. Some believe that that's where it is. They believe that the universe has a center, I did not look deeply into that topic, I remember hearing about red shifts and doppler effect and an illustration with a balloon with pennies affixed to it that scientists who PURPOSE not to have a God, use to trick students into believing the universe has no center. The students realize the balloon-penny demonstration makes no sense with regard to the big bang (there would have to have multiple big bangs while the pennies are moving away from each other) but they allow them to teach it to them anyway.

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Look up the definitions for foreknow and predestine and compare them. God made a PROVISION for ALL to be saved but not all will CHOOSE to be saved. (See John 3:16)

If you actually do compare them, you'll find that God predestines some people to their belief.

 

Eph 1:4-5

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

In the case of these people, God not only knows ahead of time, he already determined the outcome according to his will.

Their will and choice has nothing to do with it.

 

 

That's preposterous. God chooses certain people to perform certain roles or functions but He died for ALL. The text is referring to people (i.e ANYBODY) who accept God's entreaties to salvation.

It's not at all preposterous, it fits the very definition of being PREDESTINED.

If someone is predestined according to God's will, then the decision was made by God in advance.

PRE-DESTINED means to determine in advance.

Good heavens, it's right there in front of you....."predestined... according to HIS WILL" (not their will).

It says nothing about having to accept anything and there's no reason why it should.

If God made the decision and fixed it in place via predestination (which is what the scripture says), then it's a divine mandate.

The clay pots don't decide their fate, the potter does.

The problem is that you mentally write your own Bible, revising and deleting any parts that conflict with what makes you feel good.

That's why Christianity is a feel good religion, where subjective emotions and hypocritical interpretations are trotted out as "truth".

 

He said His word will NOT return to Him void, however, He still factors in people's freedom to choose.

I keep telling you, beloved, that God does not play favorites, He died for the world and He does not want ANY to perish. He knows He won't get His wish though.

He knows everything and He already knew who would choose Him but He's not forcing anyone to do so.

You keep denying scripture, perhaps thinking that it'll magically delete itself from the Bible.

Eph 1:4-5,11 doesn't say God simply foreknew who would choose him, it says that he predestined some people to believe and be part of the club.

You're trying to rewrite the text by deleting "predestination" and inserting "foreknowledge" in its place.

 

You've turned this:

Eph 1:4-5

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

 

Into this:

Eph 1:4-5

According as he hath known those that would chose him, and hence become holy in love.

Having foreknown who would choose Jesus Christ to himself, according to their free will.

 

You've effectively butchered the text because you can't stand what it actually says.

So much for the Word of God.

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... God's law is IMMUTABLE

Then contrary to the New Testament, the law wasn't ended by Jesus.

 

Natural immortality is a lie Satan told from the beginning.

Chapter and verse from the Hebrew scriptures for this please.

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Thumbelina said: I agree with that video up to a certain point. I'm an atheist against that type of God too. Gospel means good news and good news is NOT burning beings through the ceaseless ages while the righteous frolic, that is a preposterous idea that was contrived in the mind of Satan himself. That type of God will be a monster!

 

Frightened Centauri said: Interesting. So Rev John Hagee, a hero of Glenn Beck and evangelicals, is preaching a gospel that was contrived in the mind of Satan.

 

Yes, maybe unknowingly but yes.

You might want to contact Glenn Beck and inform him that his hero Hagee is working for Satan.

But be careful, Glenn Beck might go into one of his crying jags.

Your news might distress him greatly.

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing that Christianity is so fractured, it can't even agree on basic doctrine.

A person just can't believe any of these God soaked zealots.

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Guest Valk0010

I have a question for you thumb.

 

What would it take for you to decide christianity is in error?

 

I don't ask this out of desperation. Just curiousity. A person as full of in the box thinking as yourself, would probably answer "Nothing." But I am just wondering what your answer would be.

 

 

Well, I'll have to have my frontal lobe completely knocked out, somewhat like Phineas Gage's but worse than that. I'd also have to be blind, dumb and deaf too. But even then God can work something out. Creation testifies of a Creator and I know He loves me.

Is that a party line decision or you just make yourself believe it to be so to sleep at night?

 

A person calling logic, a secular methodology is self incriminating.

 

Your a joke thumbelina. The flat earth society would like people like you.

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Thumbelina wrote...

 

Scientists also know that the parts of space that are dark contains more stars, galaxies etc than what is actually in the visible portions of space. There is MUCH that is CLOAKED.

 

Uh..no Thumbelina. PageofCupsNono.gif

 

What you've written here is simply wrong.

 

When scientists calculate the make up of the universe they come up with these results... http://upload.wikime...Content_240.jpg

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Dark_energy

Dark energy is not material or matter, it is energy. Therefore, there are no stars or planets made out of dark energy. So that's 72% of the universe where these 'cloaked' places cannot be.

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Dark_matter

If you read the section entitled, 'Baryonic and nonbaryonic dark matter' you'll see it says... the vast majority of dark matter in the universe cannot be baryons, and thus does not form atoms. It also cannot interact matter via electromagnetic forces; in particular dark matter particles do not carry any electric charge.

 

Q.

Does this mean that there are 'cloaked' worlds made out of dark matter, which we cannot see but which can watch us?

 

A.

No. Dark matter cannot form atoms.

Therefore no planets can form out of dark matter. Also, since anything made of dark matter cannot interact with any of the electromagentic forces in this universe, any light or radio waves coming from Earth could not interact with anything made of dark matter. Thus, even if planets made of dark matter could exist, anyone living on them would be completely blind to all electromagentic radiation coming from Earth. Light and radio waves would pass right thru dark matter without interacting with it in any way.

 

So that's another 23% of the universe where these 'cloaked' places cannot be.

 

This leaves us with the small remainder of the universe that is made up of Atoms. Anything made up of atoms betrays it's presence by being visible to one or more portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. Even when something is hidden from view (by gas or dust or simply be being too small to see directly) there are many methods availible to astronomers to detect the presence and nature of these 'cloaked' objects.

 

It would take me too long, even to list these many techniques, so I won't. However, I think the point is made - these so-called 'cloaked' places have nothing to do with Dark Energy or Dark Matter.

 

(Snip)

 

Thumbelina wrote...

 

The bible says that we are being watched, the universe is looking at us to see how we are faring by disobeying God's laws. We're doing horribly, aren't we? The stronger hurts the weaker etc.They won't want to try this at home. Orion's belt is also a good vantage point to see what's going on down here, huh? Also in the book of Job where the representatives from other worlds were meeting, Satan had to represent us when Adam should have been the one to do so. Again, a good vantage point to see what's going on down here.

 

Watched?

 

Oh dear! WendyDoh.gif

 

Thumbelina, it's already been pointed out in this thread that Orion's Belt is a kind of optical illusion caused by the alignment of three stars that are at very different distances from Earth. Here's the details...

http://en.wikipedia....i/Delta_Orionis 900 light years away.

http://en.wikipedia....Epsilon_Orionis approx. 1,300 light years away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alnitak 736 light years away.

 

Hmmm... so they'd be seeing Earth as it was in A.D. 1112 or A.D. 712 or A.D. 1276?

Well, they won't have a very up-to-date idea of us, will they?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1276

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/712

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1112

 

Nobody's discovered the Americas. Steam power is still centuries away. No printing press. Sounds like the Dark Ages. Yes! That fits, doesn't it? A sin-tainted world inhabited by superstitious people who see demons lurking everywhere. That's a pretty good description of how you see everything, isn't it Thumbelina?

 

Which would explain why you've got such a negative view of such beautiful and innocent creatures like new-born babies. sad.png

 

Babies are selfish from birth ...

 

That's their basic nature. Raise them by spoiling them and you'll see what you'll get. Though God's image is not totally obliterated in us so it isn't all bad. Did I say the babies are cognizant of their selfish ways and are still being like that anyway? Don't put words in my mouth, m'kay?

 

The only thing on a newborn babies mind is surviving.

 

 

Exactly, it's survival of the fittest AT TIMES (do you see how they ball their little fists and scream when upset? they want what they want even if they don't need it), that's why they gotta be small and helpless.

 

Oy vey! sick.gif

 

BAA.

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About heaven being located around Orion's belt, I don't know much about it. Some believe that that's where it is. They believe that the universe has a center, I did not look deeply into that topic, I remember hearing about red shifts and doppler effect and an illustration with a balloon with pennies affixed to it that scientists who PURPOSE not to have a God, use to trick students into believing the universe has no center. The students realize the balloon-penny demonstration makes no sense with regard to the big bang (there would have to have multiple big bangs while the pennies are moving away from each other) but they allow them to teach it to them anyway.

 

You don't know much about it, Thumbelina? Oh, the irony is almost too much to bear! yelrotflmao.gif

 

This... http://en.wikipedia....nican_principle ...should help you understand how and why the universe has no center. Or maybe you'd like to go further and also deny this dude... http://en.wikipedia....Galileo_Galilei ? Which one is it then? The Sun goes round the Earth or vice versa?

 

Ummm... the logical conclusion of your kind of Bible-based denialism can be found on these sites.

http://biblicalastro.../astronomy1.htm

http://www.geocentricity.com/

 

The folks who run them let the scriptures tell them what they are seeing thru their telescopes. If the Bible says that everything revolves around the Earth, they'll believe it. If scripture says the Earth is flat, ditto. You should fit right in Thumbelina. Unless, of course, you're already a member?

 

BAA.

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