Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Pre Fall Of Satan, Pre Creation And Post Creation Evil Show That The Bible God Is Self Refuting. (Comments Criticism, Please!)


Guest Valk0010

Recommended Posts

Thumbelina wrote...

 

Scientists also know that the parts of space that are dark contains more stars, galaxies etc than what is actually in the visible portions of space. There is MUCH that is CLOAKED.

 

cloaking_device_by_section42.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its interesting that in one of your post you mentioned Judas as going to hell, he was an esintial part of Gods plan, without him there could be no cross but why is he getting punished then?

 

Same with all the others who have done evil. If its all part of Gods plan for evil to be committed why are they punished for it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its interesting that in one of your post you mentioned Judas as going to hell, he was an esintial part of Gods plan, without him there could be no cross but why is he getting punished then?

 

Same with all the others who have done evil. If its all part of Gods plan for evil to be committed why are they punished for it?

funny thing is there are a segment of chriistians that DO think everyone will go to heaven siting that EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue will confess that jesus is lord. but this plays into the whole liberal thing...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its interesting that in one of your post you mentioned Judas as going to hell, he was an esintial part of Gods plan, without him there could be no cross but why is he getting punished then?

 

Same with all the others who have done evil. If its all part of Gods plan for evil to be committed why are they punished for it?

 

 

Have you considered that God foreknows everything (He's OMNISCIENT) and therefore makes plans to meet WHATEVER situation will arise? Some time in eternity past, God decided that Jesus was going to die for us WHEN sin arose and thus cause MANY humans to be redeemed. God deals with the now and the not yet, God's contingency plan was formulated even before this planet was even created (see 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 1:20; Acts 2:23;Rom 8:29; Eph 1:4)

 

 

 

God did/does have a plan for sin/evil but not in the way you stated it. His plan came about because He permits freedom of choice. 1 Cor 10:11 gives insight as to why God permitted sin: 11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

He allows beings who follow His EXPRESSED will ( What He WANTS to happen; He wants everyone to be happy and obedient) to be compared and contrasted to beings who play their part in His PERMISSIVE will ( He commands them not to sin, He KNOWS they will CHOOSE not to obey but He lets them do it anyway). Pharaoh, the poster boy for atheism ( And Pharaoh said, Who [is] the LORD, that I should obey his voice ...), is an example of such a one ( [Edit] Ha ha, I just got a scripture to show this thanks to what Valkie wrote in another thread; it's Romans 9: 17. In the book of Exodus we keep seeing it written that God hardened Pharaoh's heart and that God made Pharaoh For His own glory. That is exactly what was happening with evil, God is allowing the behavior of the sheep and the goats to be seen ( e.g. Moses = sheep, Pharaoh = goat). God has innumerable INTELLIGENT creatures to manage and He gives ALL of them freedom of choice and He wants them to INTELLECTUALLY see what sin does and how far it can go ( remember a little leaven, leavens the whole lump?). He wants peace for EVERYONE which is why He has His commandments. He is allowing ( not causing, they disobeyed on their OWN volition) some to break it to DEMONSTRATE why His commandments are necessary. After sin is OVER, NOBODY would ever CHOOSE to partake in it again. God would not have had to force obedience from anyone, they would intellectually see why God cannot permit sin/Law breaking/commandment transgressing, perpetually.

 

 

P.S. Valk is really pondering these questions, it is my wish that God manifests Himself to him in some way and he gets some of his logical questions answered. God leaves room for doubt, after all FAITH is needed to enter heaven, that eliminates the timeservers. God does not want what Satan did to be repeated and therefore He is making sure it won't happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its interesting that in one of your post you mentioned Judas as going to hell, he was an esintial part of Gods plan, without him there could be no cross but why is he getting punished then?

 

Same with all the others who have done evil. If its all part of Gods plan for evil to be committed why are they punished for it?

funny thing is there are a segment of chriistians that DO think everyone will go to heaven siting that EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue will confess that jesus is lord. but this plays into the whole liberal thing...

 

 

 

Then they isolate verses and are preaching Satan's doctrine of " Ye shall NOT surely die". They changed this : "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." into this: For the wages of sin is living eternally even though you never did or will repent but the gift of of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord .

 

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

 

Questions for anyone that is genuinely trying to figure out what the bible says on this:

Where do you think hell is or will be?

 

 

As per Revelation 20, which is describing the final destruction of the wicked, where are Satan and the other wicked beings located ( hint in vs 8-9)?

 

 

 

In Revelation 21 verse 10, where is The New Jerusalem coming from and going to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

That tree was/is beautiful, they ate from it. The angels had to block it to stop 'em from living any longer, it would seem that if they kept eating they would have kept living.

 

 

Yeah, god said they may eat freely of any tree. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY LITERALLY ATE FROM EVERY TREE. Again, you assume facts. We're done. Agree to Disagree.

 

I know you see dogmatism but it's because there are interlocking doctrines that you are just not privy to that strongly implies (though not explicitly stated ) that they ate from the tree of life. That's why the bible says one needs spiritual ears to get insight into it's teachings. Using secular methodologies all by themselves to interpret scripture just won't cut it.

Of course you are allowed to disagree! My God is a God of choice, it shows that from the beginning, the two trees offered choice. Thanks Chicky for having a discussion with me. I actually got a lioness to chat! smile.png It's usually the lions that are always yammerin' biggrin.png

 

Thumbelina is privy to secret doctrines (shit she makes up). Because people here at Ex-c have refuted the baloney known as the bible she has to create the secret doctrine that only one who 'believes' gets access to. Of course that secret doctrine is the emotional delusion of xianity which we have all previously experienced as devoted believers. Spiritual ears means allowing yourself to believe stupid drivel from the church and the bible. It also means making up whatever baloney you can think of to protect your imaginary being. Why do xians get so bent out of shape when you deny their god? Xians go into a rage yet god does nothing. Why not let god handle his own arguments?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

 

Frightened of something non-existent? lol. Xianity doesn't take away fear. Xianity gives you fear. Fear, guilt, and shame.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

I wrote that it was depressing that Christians cannot agree on even basic doctrine.

They could not and cannot be trusted.

Having been lectured to by these so-called experts for decades, I eventually realized that they were full of themselves, not filled by a Holy Spook.

Becoming disillusioned isn't a state of fear, it's the shedding of illusion that allows objective thought to cleanse out all the manure that was dumped by others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gen 2:16-17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

That tree was/is beautiful, they ate from it. The angels had to block it to stop 'em from living any longer, it would seem that if they kept eating they would have kept living.

 

 

Yeah, god said they may eat freely of any tree. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY LITERALLY ATE FROM EVERY TREE. Again, you assume facts. We're done. Agree to Disagree.

 

I know you see dogmatism but it's because there are interlocking doctrines that you are just not privy to that strongly implies (though not explicitly stated ) that they ate from the tree of life. That's why the bible says one needs spiritual ears to get insight into it's teachings. Using secular methodologies all by themselves to interpret scripture just won't cut it.

Of course you are allowed to disagree! My God is a God of choice, it shows that from the beginning, the two trees offered choice. Thanks Chicky for having a discussion with me. I actually got a lioness to chat! smile.png It's usually the lions that are always yammerin' biggrin.png

 

Thumbelina is privy to secret doctrines (shit she makes up). Because people here at Ex-c have refuted the baloney known as the bible she has to create the secret doctrine that only one who 'believes' gets access to. Of course that secret doctrine is the emotional delusion of xianity which we have all previously experienced as devoted believers. Spiritual ears means allowing yourself to believe stupid drivel from the church and the bible. It also means making up whatever baloney you can think of to protect your imaginary being. Why do xians get so bent out of shape when you deny their god? Xians go into a rage yet god does nothing. Why not let god handle his own arguments?

 

See? You're ignoring what Jesus said in Mark 4:11, that's why you can't get the gospel, you ignore key texts. God forbid but put midnightrider on a little dingy in the middle of the ocean and a violent storm arises. Midnightrider is yammerin' when on the forums but at that time he's gonna pray. God forbid, picture midnightrider missing out on heaven and seeing the universe up close and personal. Some Christians are worried about atheist nutters and the influence they may have on their loved ones. This life is TOO short to be it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

 

Frightened of something non-existent? lol. Xianity doesn't take away fear. Xianity gives you fear. Fear, guilt, and shame.

 

 

So you're a frightened chickadee too? Yes, agree, Christianity misunderstood will do that. E.g. I saw two pastors shaking their heads and saying that that once saved, always saved doctrine should be called the doctrine of uncertainty. I hear it messes people up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the book of Exodus we keep seeing it written that God hardened Pharaoh's heart and that God made Pharaoh For His own glory. That is exactly what was happening with evil, God is allowing the behavior of the sheep and the goats to be seen ( e.g. Moses = sheep, Pharaoh = goat). God has innumerable INTELLIGENT creatures to manage and He gives ALL of them freedom of choice and He wants them to INTELLECTUALLY see what sin does and how far it can go.

You've contradicted scripture.

When God steps in and manipulates the behavior of characters like Pharaoh (as the Bible shows), that dilutes their ability to choose.

Your use of the phrase "freedom of choice" is also rendered completely subjective in the face of predestination, which is also taught in the Bible.

You're not in any position to know exactly what or to what degree God is controlling anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

I wrote that it was depressing that Christians cannot agree on even basic doctrine.

They could not and cannot be trusted.

Having been lectured to by these so-called experts for decades, I eventually realized that they were full of themselves, not filled by a Holy Spook.

Becoming disillusioned isn't a state of fear, it's the shedding of illusion that allows objective thought to cleanse out all the manure that was dumped by others.

 

 

Don't worry honey (beloved), God loves you and I seem to be fond of you too (nothwithstanding your craziness). You seem QUITE weary and I think you really wanted to make sense of it all. I hope God manifests Himself to you too. Especially when you realize you went from the pan into the fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus is a character in a novel. Why should anybody care what a character in a novel states?

 

"Rudolf with your nose so bright, won't you join my sleigh tonight!" - The infallible word of Santa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the book of Exodus we keep seeing it written that God hardened Pharaoh's heart and that God made Pharaoh For His own glory. That is exactly what was happening with evil, God is allowing the behavior of the sheep and the goats to be seen ( e.g. Moses = sheep, Pharaoh = goat). God has innumerable INTELLIGENT creatures to manage and He gives ALL of them freedom of choice and He wants them to INTELLECTUALLY see what sin does and how far it can go.

You've contradicted scripture.

When God steps in and manipulates the behavior of characters like Pharaoh (as the Bible shows), that dilutes their ability to choose.

Your use of the phrase "freedom of choice" is also rendered completely subjective in the face of predestination, which is also taught in the Bible.

You're not in any position to know exactly what or to what degree God is controlling anything.

 

 

See what I mean by craziness? You do NOT EVER compare scripture with scripture. You need to be still and know ... and get with your bible without that crazy, frightened, panicking thing you do and God will speak through His Word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

The phrase concerning knees bowing and tongues confessing is about paying homage to Yahweh, who is a singular savior and deity.

It has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

The phrase concerning knees bowing and tongues confessing is about paying homage to Yahweh, who is a singular savior and deity.

It has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

 

 

I'm curious ... . Can I ask you something?

Who is the us referring to in this verse?: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

I wrote that it was depressing that Christians cannot agree on even basic doctrine.

They could not and cannot be trusted.

Having been lectured to by these so-called experts for decades, I eventually realized that they were full of themselves, not filled by a Holy Spook.

Becoming disillusioned isn't a state of fear, it's the shedding of illusion that allows objective thought to cleanse out all the manure that was dumped by others.

 

 

Don't worry honey (beloved), God loves you and I seem to be fond of you too (nothwithstanding your craziness). You seem QUITE weary and I think you really wanted to make sense of it all. I hope God manifests Himself to you too. Especially when you realize you went from the pan into the fire.

Have you lectured John Hagee's congregation about him being a tool of Satan yet?

How about the Mormons and Catholics, have you gone on a misison to show them the errors of their ways yet?

Are you too weary to bother?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

I wrote that it was depressing that Christians cannot agree on even basic doctrine.

They could not and cannot be trusted.

Having been lectured to by these so-called experts for decades, I eventually realized that they were full of themselves, not filled by a Holy Spook.

Becoming disillusioned isn't a state of fear, it's the shedding of illusion that allows objective thought to cleanse out all the manure that was dumped by others.

 

 

Don't worry honey (beloved), God loves you and I seem to be fond of you too (nothwithstanding your craziness). You seem QUITE weary and I think you really wanted to make sense of it all. I hope God manifests Himself to you too. Especially when you realize you went from the pan into the fire.

Have you lectured John Hagee's congregation about him being a tool of Satan yet?

How about the Mormons and Catholics, have you gone on a misison to show them the errors of their ways yet?

Are you too weary to bother?

 

I have to go where I am sent, apparently my little niche for witnessing atm is around these parts, God is yearning for His chicks! ;) Plus, I've been learning, thanks to you guys :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

The phrase concerning knees bowing and tongues confessing is about paying homage to Yahweh, who is a singular savior and deity.

It has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

I'm curious ... . Can I ask you something?

Who is the us referring to in this verse?: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The "us" is God's court, the majestic plural.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

The phrase concerning knees bowing and tongues confessing is about paying homage to Yahweh, who is a singular savior and deity.

It has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

I'm curious ... . Can I ask you something?

Who is the us referring to in this verse?: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The "us" is God's court, the majestic plural.

 

What the heck does that mean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far from being frightened, I find it depressing ...

 

C'mon, admit it, you is frightened. Yes fear can bring on depression. You know God describes Himself as a mother hen than longs to protect His chicks. You are a wayward chickadee and God is yearning to take away that fear and protect you.

I wrote that it was depressing that Christians cannot agree on even basic doctrine.

They could not and cannot be trusted.

Having been lectured to by these so-called experts for decades, I eventually realized that they were full of themselves, not filled by a Holy Spook.

Becoming disillusioned isn't a state of fear, it's the shedding of illusion that allows objective thought to cleanse out all the manure that was dumped by others.

 

 

Don't worry honey (beloved), God loves you and I seem to be fond of you too (nothwithstanding your craziness). You seem QUITE weary and I think you really wanted to make sense of it all. I hope God manifests Himself to you too. Especially when you realize you went from the pan into the fire.

Have you lectured John Hagee's congregation about him being a tool of Satan yet?

How about the Mormons and Catholics, have you gone on a misison to show them the errors of their ways yet?

Are you too weary to bother?

 

I have to go where I am sent, apparently my little niche for witnessing atm is around these parts, God is yearning for His chicks! Plus, I've been learning, thanks to you guys

So, you received instructions to come here to preach rather than attend to the needs of fellow believers who have been led astray.

Confirmation for your instructions was received by what method?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Valk0010

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

The phrase concerning knees bowing and tongues confessing is about paying homage to Yahweh, who is a singular savior and deity.

It has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

I'm curious ... . Can I ask you something?

Who is the us referring to in this verse?: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The "us" is God's court, the majestic plural.

 

What the heck does that mean?

It would be a bit like how jews interpret genesis, as to god speaking to his angels. That at least is my guess as I understand it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every knee and tongue will confess, however, some will be genuinely repentant and some will just have a white flag surrender but their hearts will remain unchanged ( like Judas, he confessed Christ and was sorry for the consequences of His actions but he was not sorry for his duplicity).

The phrase concerning knees bowing and tongues confessing is about paying homage to Yahweh, who is a singular savior and deity.

It has nothing to do with Jesus.

 

Isa 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

 

I'm curious ... . Can I ask you something?

Who is the us referring to in this verse?: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The "us" is God's court, the majestic plural.

 

What the heck does that mean?

Jewish explanation:

http://jewsforjudais...nity&Itemid=501

 

Christian non-Trinitarian explanation:

http://www.wrestedsc...enesis3v22.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Confirmation for your instructions was received by what method?

 

Oh, I dunno, why else would I be drawn to put up with a lot of craziness and some insults? It must be love, right? God loves you and does not want to to continue on that destructive path.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.