Too Many Unanswerd Questions, Too Many Contradictions...

[2Honest]

From what I understand Oklahoma has a pretty well organized freethought/atheist population. I know Seth of The Thinking Atheist lives there and I've heard there are some good meetups. Also there's the annual Oklahoma Freethought Convention which just took place. The Thinking Atheist just posted one of the videos from that and will be uploading more soon. So if you do want to connect with others in your community you should be able to find some things to get involved in. I realize that right now that may be difficult with your wife and family not knowing about your transition, though.

 

It's amazing how one can learn so much from visiting various forums around here, ie: Oklahoma having a sizable number of freethinkers, et.al. I've always thought OK. was one of your typical redneck places where I would NEVER visit. I guess I'll have to reassess my views (again). Thanks.

 

Yeah, it does seem surprising. We live in TX and there's actually a great organization of freethinkers and atheists here, as well. Things are definitely changing. Look out, we're taking over the world!!!

 

 

(BTW - any of you looking for atheist stuff in Oklahoma - just google "oklahoma atheists". There are several websites and groups that come up.)

[LifeCycle]

Question: Have any of you gone through any form of depression due to your awakening? I mean, now you believe there is no heaven and that this is probably it. The deck that we are dealt - however unfair it is, is the deck we are dealt. Frankly, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that if this is it, this is all we've got. That injustice rules this world and that megalomaniacs control everything and greed and selfishness cause so much suffering. If there's anything that I want to believe, it's that somewhere down the line, the imbalance of this life is righted and scumbags who did everything in their power to attain riches or accolade, reap some kind of consequence.

 

I mean, what's the flippin point then? So, yeah, all of this makes me angry and I can see the onset of a varying state of depression set in. Ugh.

 

To me, not believing was actually all rather freeing. It was a relief that I didn't have to believe that awful things were being done by awful people because a deity allows it all to happen as a part of some sick, twisted, indecipherable plan. Terrible things that happen to us aren't part of some punishment for our distant ancestors eating a piece of fruit, punishment for our own actions, or part of some sadistic "testing" of our faith being done by God. We no longer have to find "God's purpose" for our lives, but we can live and do what we like without wondering if taking a particular job, marrying a particular person, buying a particular car or going on a particular trip is going against his sick, twisted, indecipherable plan for us. It is a relief to not have to worry about spending eternity in Hell or kissing God's ass for eternity in Heaven. It is a relief that we don't have to put up with injustices simply because we accept that they are somehow God's will.

 

I agree.

[jblueep]

Welcome LifeCycle! You will fit right in here.

 

...I first went from belief-based salvation to an all-inclusive perspective and determined that hell was a myth and not really anywhere in scripture... From that point, when you believe that everyone is saved - no matter what they do or believe it causes you to be less critical of others and their beliefs...

 

I can relate as I went through a phase of "christian universalism" while trying to hold on to my faith.

 

Question: Have any of you gone through any form of depression due to your awakening? I mean, now you believe there is no heaven and that this is probably it. The deck that we are dealt - however unfair it is, is the deck we are dealt. Frankly, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that if this is it, this is all we've got. That injustice rules this world and that megalomaniacs control everything and greed and selfishness cause so much suffering. If there's anything that I want to believe, it's that somewhere down the line, the imbalance of this life is righted and scumbags who did everything in their power to attain riches or accolade, reap some kind of consequence.

 

I mean, what's the flippin point then? So, yeah, all of this makes me angry and I can see the onset of a varying state of depression set in. Ugh.

 

I think a lot of us go through this phase. It didn't hit me the same way it hits some people. It actually more fully opened my eyes to the value of this life and this very moment. It showed me how believing in fairly tales caused me not to value the life I have as much as a should.

 

Also, I'm not a nihilist. I think our consciousness survives in some way when our body fails, i.e. I don't think "this is it", but I will live as if it is.

[mcdaddy]

So yeah... I'm not really sure how to proceed with my wife or my mother or the rest of my family. Heck my mother has a book on Eschatology and believes in the Rapture and all of that. No way is she even prepared for that type of discussion.

 

Question: Have any of you gone through any form of depression due to your awakening? I mean, now you believe there is no heaven and that this is probably it. The deck that we are dealt - however unfair it is, is the deck we are dealt. Frankly, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that if this is it, this is all we've got. That injustice rules this world and that megalomaniacs control everything and greed and selfishness cause so much suffering. If there's anything that I want to believe, it's that somewhere down the line, the imbalance of this life is righted and scumbags who did everything in their power to attain riches or accolade, reap some kind of consequence.

 

I mean, what's the flippin point then? So, yeah, all of this makes me angry and I can see the onset of a varying state of depression set in. Ugh.

 

Be happy we have this brief shining moment to appreciate the wonder of the universe. Yeah, us petty humans can make it look all shitty sometimes. But, disregard that nonsense and just appreciate you're not a rock.

 

 

 

Welcome BTW! I just recently came out to my wife as an agnostic too. really i guess i lean atheist, but no need to use that foul word around her. Welcome to the unequally yoked club. UYC

[LifeCycle]

Thanks folks! This is going to be a great learning tool for me, that's obvious.

[London]

The deck that we are dealt - however unfair it is, is the deck we are dealt. Frankly, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that if this is it, this is all we've got. That injustice rules this world and that megalomaniacs control everything and greed and selfishness cause so much suffering.

 

Being pissed is a normal reaction. However I would suggest being pissed at the church and all the people in it who lied to you and made you believe that there was going to be a prize at the end of the show. Had they not played their mind games on you (and many of us) we never would have had unrealistic hope to begin with.

 

You will see that there are many good things in the world that xianity has blinded you from seeing. Like 2H said, it is freeing. As they say on airplanes "You are now free to move about the cabin".

[LifeCycle]

The deck that we are dealt - however unfair it is, is the deck we are dealt. Frankly, I'm pissed. I'm pissed that if this is it, this is all we've got. That injustice rules this world and that megalomaniacs control everything and greed and selfishness cause so much suffering.

 

Being pissed is a normal reaction. However I would suggest being pissed at the church and all the people in it who lied to you and made you believe that there was going to be a prize at the end of the show. Had they not played their mind games on you (and many of us) we never would have had unrealistic hope to begin with.

 

You will see that there are many good things in the world that xianity has blinded you from seeing. Like 2H said, it is freeing. As they say on airplanes "You are now free to move about the cabin".

 

Right and I agree... But I don't believe that those who led me down that path had bad intentions I just think they were duped as well. Yes, there are those who do so with intent on tricking us... And honestly, I'm wondering what that number is. I think it's more than I'd like to believe.

[norton65ca]

I too, have gone through waves of anger , depression and numbness.

It hasn't been easy by any means but currently I seem to be in a fairly nice mode in which I am devouring knowledge and consuming more craftbrewed ales than normally, but then I'm on holidays.... I think the freeing up of my world has been quite liberating in fact. I completely identify with your observations about the tyrants and despots of this world, the mass murderers and so on, getting away scot free so to speak. This was a fairly central view I held when I was in the latter stages of my faith, that there must be a judgement and a reckoning because if there wasn't, then the evil men get away and the innocent and downtrodden die for nothing in heaps. I always maintained as a Xtian that this was a fundamental necessity for me to continue on through the madness of life on this planet amongst humans. The idea of justice kept me from viewing the world as a horror.

I have begun to come to terms with it all. The fact is that the world doesn't change with the change in worldview, the horrors are still there as they always were. The judgement as it appears in the biblical worldview turns out to be both inadequate, unjust and disproportionate. There are no "levels" of hell as there in Dante, there is only the everlasting separation from the eternal glory, out in the dust filled lonely agony of the trash heap of Gehenna, for all, without exception, who reject the saviour's message. My dear mum, who hasn't any time for Xtianity, is going to the same place as John Wayne Gacy and Atilla the hun. This kind of justice doesn't really go to any degree towards satisfying my innate desire for some sort of justice for all the suffering I see before my eyes. And so, we're back at the same point as if there is no god, which of course there isn't. There is no real justice at all, and I'd better get used to it, and start using my time perhaps to make steps towards building a better world as I am able on a small local scale for my grandson to grow up in.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes the picture is bleak, and I have always been one to dwell on the bigger picture, perhaps that's why I got involved in Christianity in the first place... When that happens, I try to focus on the good things I do have in this world, and I do have a lot. This is all we can do, there is no magic good ending, there is only human progress and effort to create a more just, kind, compassionate society which has room for all positive expressions of human life.

[LifeCycle]

I too, have gone through waves of anger , depression and numbness.

It hasn't been easy by any means but currently I seem to be in a fairly nice mode in which I am devouring knowledge and consuming more craftbrewed ales than normally, but then I'm on holidays.... I think the freeing up of my world has been quite liberating in fact. I completely identify with your observations about the tyrants and despots of this world, the mass murderers and so on, getting away scot free so to speak. This was a fairly central view I held when I was in the latter stages of my faith, that there must be a judgement and a reckoning because if there wasn't, then the evil men get away and the innocent and downtrodden die for nothing in heaps. I always maintained as a Xtian that this was a fundamental necessity for me to continue on through the madness of life on this planet amongst humans. The idea of justice kept me from viewing the world as a horror.

I have begun to come to terms with it all. The fact is that the world doesn't change with the change in worldview, the horrors are still there as they always were. The judgement as it appears in the biblical worldview turns out to be both inadequate, unjust and disproportionate. There are no "levels" of hell as there in Dante, there is only the everlasting separation from the eternal glory, out in the dust filled lonely agony of the trash heap of Gehenna, for all, without exception, who reject the saviour's message. My dear mum, who hasn't any time for Xtianity, is going to the same place as John Wayne Gacy and Atilla the hun. This kind of justice doesn't really go to any degree towards satisfying my innate desire for some sort of justice for all the suffering I see before my eyes. And so, we're back at the same point as if there is no god, which of course there isn't. There is no real justice at all, and I'd better get used to it, and start using my time perhaps to make steps towards building a better world as I am able on a small local scale for my grandson to grow up in.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes the picture is bleak, and I have always been one to dwell on the bigger picture, perhaps that's why I got involved in Christianity in the first place... When that happens, I try to focus on the good things I do have in this world, and I do have a lot. This is all we can do, there is no magic good ending, there is only human progress and effort to create a more just, kind, compassionate society which has room for all positive expressions of human life.

Well stated! I see where you're coming from and it's going to take some time for me to come to terms with it all.

It's interesting though... My outlook on this life and my recent revelation has caused me to treat this life more precious than I once did. Christianity made me less apt to grasping and taking hold of what I do have and really enjoying it because I thought it all temporary. Now, I know I need to live the life I do have to the fullest. Using my time and energy to accomplish and appreciate each breath I breath.

Thanks.

[raoul]

To me, not believing was actually all rather freeing. It was a relief that I didn't have to believe that awful things were being done by awful people because a deity allows it all to happen as a part of some sick, twisted, indecipherable plan. Terrible things that happen to us aren't part of some punishment for our distant ancestors eating a piece of fruit, punishment for our own actions, or part of some sadistic "testing" of our faith being done by God. We no longer have to find "God's purpose" for our lives, but we can live and do what we like without wondering if taking a particular job, marrying a particular person, buying a particular car or going on a particular trip is going against his sick, twisted, indecipherable plan for us. It is a relief to not have to worry about spending eternity in Hell or kissing God's ass for eternity in Heaven. It is a relief that we don't have to put up with injustices simply because we accept that they are somehow God's will.

Can you answer this question? How on earth did you get inside MY head and voice EXACTLY what I felt the day I finally said 'fuck it, I finally get it. It's a load of crap'? LOL

Especially the part about not having to wonder to take some kind of action in order to kiss a god's ass - that's priceless. Thanks!

[Thought2Much]

Can you answer this question? How on earth did you get inside MY head and voice EXACTLY what I felt the day I finally said 'fuck it, I finally get it. It's a load of crap'? LOL

Especially the part about not having to wonder to take some kind of action in order to kiss a god's ass - that's priceless. Thanks!

 

Ha-ha! I don't know what's inside your head, but I do know that ever since I completely deconverted (it was a long, slow, gradual process for me), I have noticed that things are now very quiet inside my head. I used to always be wondering what I should be doing with my time and my thoughts, and second guessing my actions, no matter how trivial. Now, my thinking is clear, and I'm not always trying to telepathically ask God if what I'm doing is the "right" thing. I finally have peace inside my own mind, and it's wonderful.

[raoul]

I finally have peace inside my own mind, and it's wonderful.

Ditto - totally wonderful. And, ironically, it shows the true picture of many of those still trapped in the cult - tortured souls trying to still figure out a god's will for them. It's sad when you think about it.

[LifeCycle]

This weekend I was fighting off depression. It was all I could think about. But I'm finding that I'm slowly able to accept all of this. The funny thing is, I think it's actually motivating me to be a better person.

 

Just ordered the book "The Jesus Mysteries" as well. Looks like some good reading.

[London]

This weekend I was fighting off depression. It was all I could think about. But I'm finding that I'm slowly able to accept all of this. The funny thing is, I think it's actually motivating me to be a better person.

 

Just ordered the book "The Jesus Mysteries" as well. Looks like some good reading.

 

I've read a lot of stories over the years and the one thing most of them have in common is that point when it all finally drops away. It's like trudging up a long, long incline and at the very end is a sharp bend. Once you come around that bend, WOW! How amazing. It's like the most beautiful unexpected scene. Things are never the same again and people are usually much happier.

 

Everyone has their own version of this but that's always how I see the sudden shift in how people see the future.

 

It's nice to see the happiness take over.

[Eleandrus]

Welcome LifeCycle, iam still a baby Xian myself only 12 days now. All it took for me was to realize that if the Universe could have created itself weather or not its ever proven 100% but jsut that it Physically possible then i jusr realized there was no need for a believe in a Creator or to Believe Jesus was a fake Messenger of a Non existent God. I also find myself a little depressed more than the clinical depression i already have, but being on here and not alone is my rebellion i feel alot more happier and freer.(Spelling?).

 

As far as the Ricky Bobby Ive never seen that Movie so i had to look it up. Wow that was hilarious.

 

[Wings]

Hi LifeCycle,

I'm late to the party here, but welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing your stories and your challenges!! I joined in Dec. and "came out" in Feb but definitely consider myself to still be a "baby atheist" (I think I've used those words around here!)... and there is so much to learn.... especially if you've been immersed in Christianity since you were a kid, it's awesome to just absorb knowledge. Read books, ask question and enjoy the process

The forums are a great place to share you struggles and find support... from fellow "babies" and the wise sages.. it's definitely helped me cope. I too have gone through some depression and then some of the other phases (I think TF mentioned the phases link above).

 

It's all about perspective and choosing how you think about it.

I wish that I could say I was one of those people whose atheism makes it easier for me to 'live for the moment' and appreciate life more... and intellectually I do. But overall, although I was mentally relieved when I admitted that I am, I've struggled with accepting this life and living for now... but I'm sure it'll get better! The Thinking Atheist just came out with a fantastic video called Afterlife which talks a bit about (obviously) the afterlife and then some thoughts about how to really live for this life. I think 2H mentioned the Thinking Atheist is in Oklahoma (lucky you!)... I find this video really inspiring in a morbid sense when it comes to thinking about that life/afterlife/heaven/hell/purpose... hope it does the same for you:

 

Again, welcome

[raoul]

Welcome LifeCycle, iam still a baby Xian myself only 12 days now. All it took for me was to realize that if the Universe could have created itself weather or not its ever proven 100% but jsut that it Physically possible then i jusr realized there was no need for a believe in a Creator or to Believe Jesus was a fake Messenger of a Non existent God. I also find myself a little depressed more than the clinical depression i already have, but being on here and not alone is my rebellion i feel alot more happier and freer.(Spelling?).

 

As far as the Ricky Bobby Ive never seen that Movie so i had to look it up. Wow that was hilarious.

 

Thanks for posting that video - it's hilarious!

[LifeCycle]

Welcome LifeCycle, iam still a baby Xian myself only 12 days now. All it took for me was to realize that if the Universe could have created itself weather or not its ever proven 100% but jsut that it Physically possible then i jusr realized there was no need for a believe in a Creator or to Believe Jesus was a fake Messenger of a Non existent God. I also find myself a little depressed more than the clinical depression i already have, but being on here and not alone is my rebellion i feel alot more happier and freer.(Spelling?).

 

As far as the Ricky Bobby Ive never seen that Movie so i had to look it up. Wow that was hilarious.

 

 

I'm there with ya, brother. I was in the dumps this entire past weekend and even up to today. Fortunately, my wife was out and about and I could deal with it alone and do what little pretending I needed to do when she was around. It's tough, really, really tough. I no longer have my make-believe friend to talk to when things are difficult. Yes, I know that sounds silly, but this entire life of mine has revolved around ideas like that. It's no different than being told that a significant person in your life is no longer around. In a sense I lost someone and the avalanche of implications that come with that such as this life being it. I've wasted minutes, hours, days, years and decades devoted to an idea that is no more true than Peter Pan. I'm surrounded by these people and can't have a real conversation about how I feel without the fear of being ostracized or mislabeled as "bad." The list goes on and on and I'm only days into this. =(

[LifeCycle]

Hi LifeCycle,

I'm late to the party here, but welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing your stories and your challenges!! I joined in Dec. and "came out" in Feb but definitely consider myself to still be a "baby atheist" (I think I've used those words around here!)... and there is so much to learn.... especially if you've been immersed in Christianity since you were a kid, it's awesome to just absorb knowledge. Read books, ask question and enjoy the process

The forums are a great place to share you struggles and find support... from fellow "babies" and the wise sages.. it's definitely helped me cope. I too have gone through some depression and then some of the other phases (I think TF mentioned the phases link above).

 

It's all about perspective and choosing how you think about it.

I wish that I could say I was one of those people whose atheism makes it easier for me to 'live for the moment' and appreciate life more... and intellectually I do. But overall, although I was mentally relieved when I admitted that I am, I've struggled with accepting this life and living for now... but I'm sure it'll get better! The Thinking Atheist just came out with a fantastic video called Afterlife which talks a bit about (obviously) the afterlife and then some thoughts about how to really live for this life. I think 2H mentioned the Thinking Atheist is in Oklahoma (lucky you!)... I find this video really inspiring in a morbid sense when it comes to thinking about that life/afterlife/heaven/hell/purpose... hope it does the same for you:

 

Again, welcome

 

Thanks for the kind words. It's funny you mention the Thinking Atheist. I know Seth Andrews as the DJ that he was for KXOJ here in Tulsa. I watched that video on the front page of his website and the last part of it is the one you posted. It's very good! Now to live life like this is the only one we have. It's a tough transition to go through, but I'm getting there.

[jefflives]

Gotta second thethinkingatheist.com. I've been in the process of deconversion for about 2 years now, but only firmly and seriously in the last 6 months. I gained a lot of insight from The Thinking Athiest site among others.

 

I was turned on to ex-Christian.net by LC this week (we're buddies since high school). I'm really excited to have a group with whom to share in the joy and pain that is deconversion and the ex-Christian life. I, too, have a still Christian wife and hope to gain insight from those who are in or have been in that same situation.

 

*Thanks LC for pointing out this site!

[LifeCycle]

Anytime Jeff! Look forward to getting through all this together.

[Wings]

 

Thanks for the kind words. It's funny you mention the Thinking Atheist. I know Seth Andrews as the DJ that he was for KXOJ here in Tulsa. I watched that video on the front page of his website and the last part of it is the one you posted. It's very good! Now to live life like this is the only one we have. It's a tough transition to go through, but I'm getting there.

 

We're all here to support you... it's great to watch people grow and gain strength through the networks that are offered here. Looking forward to reading more

[Wings]

Gotta second thethinkingatheist.com. I've been in the process of deconversion for about 2 years now, but only firmly and seriously in the last 6 months. I gained a lot of insight from The Thinking Athiest site among others.

 

I was turned on to ex-Christian.net by LC this week (we're buddies since high school). I'm really excited to have a group with whom to share in the joy and pain that is deconversion and the ex-Christian life. I, too, have a still Christian wife and hope to gain insight from those who are in or have been in that same situation.

 

*Thanks LC for pointing out this site!

 

Hey Jeff, welcome to the forums as well! Sounds like you have a good friend in LC! Looking forward to hearing more from you as well

[Eleandrus]

Welcome Jeff

 

LifeCycle I looked up Elizabeth City Atheists and discovered a local Meetup group with 60 members that meet almost twice a month. maybe you should try and see if there is any social groups in your area that you can talk about the issues ur having with a live person. Iam think of joining this group, it looks like they have a blast. Hope that idea helps you out and Good luck. iam kinda nervous contacting this group though from what i can tell ill be the youngest one i think.

[LifeCycle]

Welcome Jeff

 

LifeCycle I looked up Elizabeth City Atheists and discovered a local Meetup group with 60 members that meet almost twice a month. maybe you should try and see if there is any social groups in your area that you can talk about the issues ur having with a live person. Iam think of joining this group, it looks like they have a blast. Hope that idea helps you out and Good luck. iam kinda nervous contacting this group though from what i can tell ill be the youngest one i think.

 

There already is a group here in Tulsa that I'm a part of on Facebook... It seems they get together quite often... But the problem here is that me and my wife will not see eye to eye on this as she is a Christian. So, any social stuff I do at this point will only be online.