Did You Have Any Weird Rules As An Xian?

[Vigile]

Guess mine was one of those 'legalistic' ones.... although, they were all unwritten and clearly based largely on family traditions (some could play cards, some not etc.)

 

Do you feel that since you were raised this way, you are more rigid in other areas of your life today?

[Vigile]

The most recent church I went to used one cup. If you didn't want to drink from it directly the minister would dip your wafer in it.

 

We had the little plastic shot glasses of grape juice. When we were kids, my friends and I used to sneak upstairs and drink the leftovers.

[Carolorado]

The weirdest thing about the Jehovah's Witness faith that my father adherred to: No birthday celebrations. Not even a cake with candles. My mother tried to just cook ordinary cakes on our birthdays, but my father caught on to that pretty quick. And of course, 'no' to anything that was fun, much like you guys have experienced.

 

This isn't a church I went to, but I have noticed this, from where I lived before: At the beginning of 2009, many churches--all Baptists--joined a group of other churches and formed miliitias. It scared me to see 9 year olds with A-47 posted on FB from a religious camp. When did parents give up thinking? Even when I was a xian, my daughter was always put ahead of 'god requirements.'

I don't understand violence in churches at all. One of the ministers, maybe more, was openly recruiting more people to join his church militia in case of 'government take over.' It still terrifies me that churches get to recruit kids to use automatic weapons. I found it disgusting and repulsive. But their group is larger than ever, last time I talked to relatives still there.

[Akheia]

Guess mine was one of those 'legalistic' ones.... although, they were all unwritten and clearly based largely on family traditions (some could play cards, some not etc.)

 

Do you feel that since you were raised this way, you are more rigid in other areas of your life today?

 

I know you weren't asking me, but I think that's a fascinating question. I've known plenty of people who got out of very legalistic denominations who remained very black/white, cut-and-dried people long afterward. Some of them populate this very site. I was one of them too for a long time. It took many years to break free of that and realize the world's a lot less black-and-white than I'd ever imagined. It's a big messy complicated world, and legalistic, dogmatic attitudes just prevent us from really empathizing and understanding our fellow humans.

 

An old friend from my mudding days was the daughter of a UPC preacher. No lie. She'd deconverted and married a complete hippie atheist, but we used to joke about her continued adherence to "THE LAW THE LAW THE LAW." That's how we typed it back then, incidentally. She had some major OCD type issues (like hoarding, I'm afraid), but then thanks to the PTSD so did I, and we understood each other perfectly and crawled out of the worst of it together. In the end, though, she retained her affection for using guilt to manipulate people and we had a falling out over it. I'm not perfect either though, not by any stretch; I think once you're sunk deep into that mindset, it can be just about impossible to free yourself of it completely. Except for Antlerman.

[silentknight]

 

I know you weren't asking me, but I think that's a fascinating question. I've known plenty of people who got out of very legalistic denominations who remained very black/white, cut-and-dried people long afterward. Some of them populate this very site. I was one of them too for a long time. It took many years to break free of that and realize the world's a lot less black-and-white than I'd ever imagined. It's a big messy complicated world, and legalistic, dogmatic attitudes just prevent us from really empathizing and understanding our fellow humans.

 

An old friend from my mudding days was the daughter of a UPC preacher. No lie. She'd deconverted and married a complete hippie atheist, but we used to joke about her continued adherence to "THE LAW THE LAW THE LAW." That's how we typed it back then, incidentally. She had some major OCD type issues (like hoarding, I'm afraid), but then thanks to the PTSD so did I, and we understood each other perfectly and crawled out of the worst of it together. In the end, though, she retained her affection for using guilt to manipulate people and we had a falling out over it. I'm not perfect either though, not by any stretch; I think once you're sunk deep into that mindset, it can be just about impossible to free yourself of it completely. Except for Antlerman.

 

My father in law became agnostic sometime before I met him. Ever since I've known him he's been an extremely laid back, easy going guy. However, I've heard that when he was still a fundie he was severely strict. Came from a church where pretty much anything one takes pleasure in is evil.

[norton65ca]

Church militias with Kalashnikovs? wow... just.... wow.

I remember that I was actually baptized not at the Seed (cos we had no tank) but at a Brethren Chapel (very conservative, head coverings for the women etc...) and an old Scottish man who was held in some esteem there ( I think he was a former missionary) said in a grim voice to me when he saw my hair and general outlook, and especially when I started speaking of Christian rock..:

" Son, ye canae glorify the Lorrrrrrrd wi' RRRRRRRRock and RRRRRRRoll music!!!!" The way he rolled his RRRRs while saying that stuck with me. Very stern, no fun allowed at all....

[silentknight]

Church militias with Kalashnikovs? wow... just.... wow.

I remember that I was actually baptized not at the Seed (cos we had no tank) but at a Brethren Chapel (very conservative, head coverings for the women etc...) and an old Scottish man who was held in some esteem there ( I think he was a former missionary) said in a grim voice to me when he saw my hair and general outlook, and especially when I started speaking of Christian rock..:

" Son, ye canae glorify the Lorrrrrrrd wi' RRRRRRRRock and RRRRRRRoll music!!!!" The way he rolled his RRRRs while saying that stuck with me. Very stern, no fun allowed at all....

 

I just imagined this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI_0-kz4lR0

[Vigile]

 

 

Heed! Move!

 

He'll be cryin' himself to sleep tonight on his huge pilluh.

[Wings]

Guess mine was one of those 'legalistic' ones.... although, they were all unwritten and clearly based largely on family traditions (some could play cards, some not etc.)

 

Do you feel that since you were raised this way, you are more rigid in other areas of your life today?

 

I know you weren't asking me, but I think that's a fascinating question. I've known plenty of people who got out of very legalistic denominations who remained very black/white, cut-and-dried people long afterward. Some of them populate this very site. I was one of them too for a long time. It took many years to break free of that and realize the world's a lot less black-and-white than I'd ever imagined. It's a big messy complicated world, and legalistic, dogmatic attitudes just prevent us from really empathizing and understanding our fellow humans.

 

An old friend from my mudding days was the daughter of a UPC preacher. No lie. She'd deconverted and married a complete hippie atheist, but we used to joke about her continued adherence to "THE LAW THE LAW THE LAW." That's how we typed it back then, incidentally. She had some major OCD type issues (like hoarding, I'm afraid), but then thanks to the PTSD so did I, and we understood each other perfectly and crawled out of the worst of it together. In the end, though, she retained her affection for using guilt to manipulate people and we had a falling out over it. I'm not perfect either though, not by any stretch; I think once you're sunk deep into that mindset, it can be just about impossible to free yourself of it completely. Except for Antlerman.

 

That is a really interesting question... I imagine it HAS to have stuck with me in some way. I can be pretty rigid and stubborn sometimes once my mind is set. However, I ALWAYS questioned things and asked "why? why? why?" so even though their answers at the time made sense, I was still asking the questions. I have changed my mind on SO many things since my deconversion that I can't accept that there is a 'black and white' world. Probably why I didn't fit into my church... what I struggle with the most are those old rules (example, checking my biases against people that are different than me, assuming that ALL of you have similar experiences etc.)

[Wings]

LOVE that movie!!!! Used to quote that part about "I subscribe to the Judeo-Christian ethic of 'thou shalt not murder'" wayyy too often for jokes.

[silentknight]

LOVE that movie!!!! Used to quote that part about "I subscribe to the Judeo-Christian ethic of 'thou shalt not murder'" wayyy too often for jokes.

 

It's one of my favorites.

[Wings]

Guess mine was one of those 'legalistic' ones.... although, they were all unwritten and clearly based largely on family traditions (some could play cards, some not etc.)

 

Do you feel that since you were raised this way, you are more rigid in other areas of your life today?

 

Thought about this some more this afternoon and realized that one way this has influenced me is that it really propelled me from believer to atheist very quickly... I didn't waffle in agnosticism very long. I think that was why I went from well, it's either a) ALL true or b ) none of it is true.

I am trying my damndest to be accepting to people regardless of their walks of faith- here and elsewhere in my life- but the ones I understand least are moderates, only because my world has always been so yes/no.

I also think I struggle a lot with decision-making now that I'm free to do it on my own. I went from being a person who had to pick the city they lived in based on whether there was a 'true' church there and finding a job that would not force me to work on Sunday etc. to having all these options and opportunities.... and they're in fact very overwhelming.

 

I think that so much of my life was so rigidly structured around church (from who to hang out with, when to where to work to the linear life path I was supposed to follow), that I didn't properly learn to make good decisions, weigh consequences and be self-disciplined (as opposed to facing external discipline). I know these are minor in comparison to some things people deal with, but those are a couple of the mental blocks I think I run into re. this question.

[Endemoniada]

I was raised Ass of God too, and my church certainly had some weird rules too. For one thing, anything with 'magic' in it was looked down upon by some of the parents, as I remember talking to a kid in Sunday school about Avatar (the cartoon) and he said his parents didn't let him watch it because it had 'magic' in it. I even saw a VHS copy of Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged in one of the children's rooms. Christian stuff is okay though, as I know my youth pastor is a fan of the Lord of the Rings movies. I think (hope) they've calmed down since then.

 

Another rule, one that was often discussed in youth meetings, was secular music. It was definitely frowned upon, and the previous youth pastor would sometimes print out lyrics from popular songs of various genres and read them to us before telling us to listen to more Christian music and delete the secular stuff from our iPods.

 

And of course, we used grape juice for communion.

[Ramen666]

The weirdest thing about the Jehovah's Witness faith that my father adherred to: No birthday celebrations. Not even a cake with candles. My mother tried to just cook ordinary cakes on our birthdays, but my father caught on to that pretty quick. And of course, 'no' to anything that was fun, much like you guys have experienced.

 

This isn't a church I went to, but I have noticed this, from where I lived before: At the beginning of 2009, many churches--all Baptists--joined a group of other churches and formed miliitias. It scared me to see 9 year olds with A-47 posted on FB from a religious camp. When did parents give up thinking? Even when I was a xian, my daughter was always put ahead of 'god requirements.'

I don't understand violence in churches at all. One of the ministers, maybe more, was openly recruiting more people to join his church militia in case of 'government take over.' It still terrifies me that churches get to recruit kids to use automatic weapons. I found it disgusting and repulsive. But their group is larger than ever, last time I talked to relatives still there.

 

That is horrible, I didn't realize it was that bad over there. I know there are nut job militias in the Bible belt and the South, but that just blows mind to even comprehend that insanity,

 

 

Another rule, one that was often discussed in youth meetings, was secular music. It was definitely frowned upon, and the previous youth pastor would sometimes print out lyrics from popular songs of various genres and read them to us before telling us to listen to more Christian music and delete the secular stuff from our iPods.

 

 

I actually tend to stay away from the religion related threads because they get me fuming mad because I basically just brushed off religion and let go of the initial anger I had during the deconversion time. Stuff in this thread just makes me angry as hell.

 

It is none of his damn business what is your own IPODs!

[Wings]

 

I actually tend to stay away from the religion related threads because they get me fuming mad because I basically just brushed off religion and let go of the initial anger I had during the deconversion time. Stuff in this thread just makes me angry as hrll.

 

It is none of his damn business what is your own IPODs.

 

Sorry, Ramen!! Breathe

It is infuriating! I happen to have Hells Bells as my ringtone, now. It's fantastic!

[Edie]

There weren't too many weird rules in the church I went to. Not explicitly spoken anyway. They said they weren't legalistic, but there was actually a lot of social pressure to conform.

 

There was the obvious rules in the bible such as the 10 commandments, don't work on a sunday, remaining a virgin until marriage, don't be gay, etc.

 

You weren't allowed to have a relationship or even friendship with someone who didn't go to the same church. People who attended other churches were viewed with even more suspicion than non-Christians. You could only make acquaintances with a view to persuading people to come to church. I remember "telling" on a girl who was due to be baptised but she had a non-christian boyfriend. Not only was she not baptised, I never saw her again. (Excommunicated, I expect, though that's not the story we were given.)

 

You weren't allowed to drink alcohol basically at all. One glass of wine was acceptable, but if you mentioned that you liked wine or were meeting some friends in a pub, there would be much concern that you were not treating your body as a temple.

 

You were expected to marry young and produce a large family. I always felt it was a huge pressure on young men especially, as they would be expected to support a growing family very early on in their working career.

 

Women were expected to work as either nurses or teachers. Only until they had babies of course.

 

If you went to university, you would either study locally so you could live at home and continue attending the church, or go to bible college and study theology.

 

You wouldn't be able to have a hobby or voluntary job outside of the church. If you had any spare time outside of earning a living or attending church-run social activities (and there was not a lot left after the church-run social activities), you were expected to spend it evangelising.

 

You wouldn't be expected to miss church to go on holiday. You could go on holiday for a few days mid-week, but that was all. Even newly married couples would be expected to attend church after marrying the day before, before going on honeymoon. For less than a week, obviously. I remember one couple actually went on a walking/camping holiday for their honeymoon, I remember thinking that could get slightly uncomfortable.

 

For a while, some of the young women started wearing really old-fashioned Laura Ashley floral dresses for church. I didn't, therefore I wasn't one of the "in crowd."

 

Mental illness was a sin. Apparently there's something in the bible that says if you feel sad you should think of happy things like flowers. All very well if you've lost your favourite notebook, but if you're suffering from clinical depression that won't have quite the same effect. Psychiatry/psychology was really frowned upon.

 

For minor illnesses you were allowed to seek medical treatment, eg. you could take antibiotics or have a minor operation. But when it came to serious ilnesses like cancer, that was god's will and you weren't allowed to have treatment. One woman even died from a treatable brain tumor because she believed it was god's will.

 

When Harry Potter first came out a lot of us were really into it. Then all of a sudden someone realised it was satanic. Anyway, when do you find time to read novels when you should be reading your bible?

[TrailBlazer]

Hmm, at the AG school I went to the rules were crazy ridiculous:

 

Nobody can drink, smoke, or use profane language, ever

"Social dancing" is not allowed either

Tattoos blemish the temple of god

Keeping secrets = lying

You better have a darn good excuse for missing church

Sex is for a "proper" married couple (ie. 1man + 1woman = all the babies gawd will bless them with!)

 

Interestingly enough, masturbation is okay as long as you are thinking about your partner/spouse, women are allowed to be clergy, and after you're married sex has no limits as long as both consent to it.

[Habiba]

Dancing wasn't allowed. One foot was supposed to remain on the floor at all times. That way, it's not really dancing.

Also, we weren't allowed to read Harry Potter. My mom, though religious, didn't follow this rule.

 

Dancing?! This is madness! At my former church smiling, lifting a hand from the tiny hymn book, damn - even having musical accompaniment was sinful!

 

The banned book list I grew up with was huge - though oddly I was allowed to peruse the Narnia chronicles, as they were allegoric.

 

Additional rules I had to obey on a Sunday were:

 

No shopping - no matter how urgent - e.g plasters, food for guests.

No manual work

Only read Xtian books/The bible

No going anywhere else but church (E.g I could not attend the birthday party of a friend, even if it fell outside church meeting hours)

Compulsory attendance of all meetings. Srsly. You had to be pretty much hospitalised to be able to miss a meeting.

For some reason god clearly liked to see his men in sharp suits (drab colours only), women in modest apparel (skirts, dresses) with heads covered. Any deviation from this was quickly crushed.

 

...I'm sure there were more, but I've probably repressed them!

[Wings]

 

Dancing?! This is madness! At my former church smiling, lifting a hand from the tiny hymn book, damn - even having musical accompaniment was sinful!

 

The banned book list I grew up with was huge - though oddly I was allowed to peruse the Narnia chronicles, as they were allegoric.

 

Additional rules I had to obey on a Sunday were:

 

No shopping - no matter how urgent - e.g plasters, food for guests.

No manual work

Only read Xtian books/The bible

No going anywhere else but church (E.g I could not attend the birthday party of a friend, even if it fell outside church meeting hours)

Compulsory attendance of all meetings. Srsly. You had to be pretty much hospitalised to be able to miss a meeting.

For some reason god clearly liked to see his men in sharp suits (drab colours only), women in modest apparel (skirts, dresses) with heads covered. Any deviation from this was quickly crushed.

 

...I'm sure there were more, but I've probably repressed them!

 

Habiba, welcome to the forums! What kind of church did you attend? I can relate to some of the "strict on Sunday" experiences... most people I know would rather go hungry than buy food on Sunday.

[Habiba]

Thanks I spent almost 15 years in the open brethren (from age 5) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Brethren. The wiki article is informative, but doesn't convey with the super strict drudgery present in some places. Each "assembly" is autonomous, so they can vary in strictness. At times, my former church felt like "Amish Paradise" with some individuals more relaxed, and others with holy ramrods up their holy heinies.

[Lilith666]

This wasn't a church thing, but once I refused to wear a shirt because it had been washed on Sunday.

[norton65ca]

Thanks I spent almost 15 years in the open brethren (from age 5) http://en.wikipedia....ymouth_Brethren. The wiki article is informative, but doesn't convey with the super strict drudgery present in some places. Each "assembly" is autonomous, so they can vary in strictness. At times, my former church felt like "Amish Paradise" with some individuals more relaxed, and others with holy ramrods up their holy heinies.

I was converted in a small apartment three days after I moved out west from Eastern Canada and the first church "service" I attended was at a Plymouth brethren church, and I attended sporadically with a friend but preferred the Seed street church, which I had checked out a number of times as well as attending their street outreach evening coffee house. (They operated a food bank as well) I was baptized at the Brethren chapel but to the dismay of the elders there I stuck with the Seed. The purity of the brethren way appealed to me though, no pastors or formal leadership, complete dedication to the word, simplicity and so on, but I was too much of a rebel in many ways to have been able to fit in, From the beginning, I had the feeling that the brethren folks (very nice though they were) considered me a bit of a "pet project" because of my appearance (think 19 yr old hippy). They REALLY wanted me to go to bible school and I REALLY wanted to go to Guatemala and climb volcanoes.

[JoeCoastie]

Thanks I spent almost 15 years in the open brethren (from age 5) http://en.wikipedia....ymouth_Brethren. The wiki article is informative, but doesn't convey with the super strict drudgery present in some places. Each "assembly" is autonomous, so they can vary in strictness. At times, my former church felt like "Amish Paradise" with some individuals more relaxed, and others with holy ramrods up their holy heinies.

Have you seen Son of Rambow? I'm wondering how accurate they're portrayal of the brethren was.

[Habiba]

Thanks I spent almost 15 years in the open brethren (from age 5) http://en.wikipedia....ymouth_Brethren. The wiki article is informative, but doesn't convey with the super strict drudgery present in some places. Each "assembly" is autonomous, so they can vary in strictness. At times, my former church felt like "Amish Paradise" with some individuals more relaxed, and others with holy ramrods up their holy heinies.

I was converted in a small apartment three days after I moved out west from Eastern Canada and the first church "service" I attended was at a Plymouth brethren church, and I attended sporadically with a friend but preferred the Seed street church, which I had checked out a number of times as well as attending their street outreach evening coffee house. (They operated a food bank as well) I was baptized at the Brethren chapel but to the dismay of the elders there I stuck with the Seed. The purity of the brethren way appealed to me though, no pastors or formal leadership, complete dedication to the word, simplicity and so on, but I was too much of a rebel in many ways to have been able to fit in, From the beginning, I had the feeling that the brethren folks (very nice though they were) considered me a bit of a "pet project" because of my appearance (think 19 yr old hippy). They REALLY wanted me to go to bible school and I REALLY wanted to go to Guatemala and climb volcanoes.

 

Wow! They certainly move fast. The church I went to were far more concerned with their own affairs, and filling the coffers for Jesus that no practical help was given to needy folk around. Preaching at various demographics, yes. Actual help, nope!

 

I sympathise with the "pet project" thing, once I was away from the parental home, yet still coerced into attendance of an "assembly" I changed my appearance quite dramatically, and found myself being taken aside and chastised for my eyeliner, footwear choices and (shock horror) turning up to midweek meetings in trousers - men's clothes! For occasional effect I began to wear extreme metal band tshirts with demure skirts, fluffing my hair over any offending pentagrams. Childish perhaps, but I had to make church entertaining somehow!

 

@Skeptic: I've heard of Son of Rambow but have never got round to watching it. Perhaps its a hangover from my ridiculous upbringing but I rarely keep track of films! I'll definitely look it up, I'm intrigued as to how Brethrenism will be presented!

[norton65ca]

Hi Habiba,

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but the Seed wasn't a Brethren Chapel (They're affiliated with the Baptist Union of Western Canada.) So it was the Seed that had the outreach, food bank etc, not the Brethren Chapel I attended for a short time and was baptized at.