DataLady Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Came across this yesterday: http://www.christian.co.uk/sport/an-eternal-flame-how-sports-star-lost-god-p1979 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'd love to hear more on his reasons for losing his faith. I don't quite understand how one could lose their faith to the point of atheism and then turn around and say, "you never know, it may come back". Unless something he's said was taken out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inqui Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'd love to hear more on his reasons for losing his faith. I don't quite understand how one could lose their faith to the point of atheism and then turn around and say, "you never know, it may come back". Unless something he's said was taken out of context. His lack of faith is probably similar to mine. Personally, I'm open to a re-conversion, but I do have a few conditions on it, such as any new beliefs system not being a divine rewards scheme. The way I see it, true agnosticism is being truly open to both possibilities, and that sounds like a state he desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'd love to hear more on his reasons for losing his faith. I don't quite understand how one could lose their faith to the point of atheism and then turn around and say, "you never know, it may come back". Unless something he's said was taken out of context. His lack of faith is probably similar to mine. Personally, I'm open to a re-conversion, but I do have a few conditions on it, such as any new beliefs system not being a divine rewards scheme. The way I see it, true agnosticism is being truly open to both possibilities, and that sounds like a state he desires. That's interesting. I can't see myself ever converting to anything ever again. I'm a balance of probabilities atheist: the odds are overwhelmingly in favour of there being no deity. However, should there happen to be a deity, they obviously don't give a shit that I have no interest in it/them. So I'm just going to carry on in this manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RintrahRoars Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'd reconvert if I thought that it would bring positive benefits to my life and relationships, to those around me and the world. But I would have a completely different idea of what God is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. When you think about it, though, anyone could have done a better job creating everything than whatever deity you want to name apparently has. I could have done better, but I am unable to, so I can't be a deity. If I can see many places where improvements could be made, in my non-deity state of existence, but a deity didn't think of it themselves, despite ALL of the time they've had to make improvements, then I am left to conclude that either our darling deity is either very stupid, or just very embarrassed that the process they started out-smarted them, and that is the reason it's no-where to be found. Maybe that was why all the other deities throughout history were invented; the real deity is just too much of an embarrassment to humankind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 “Now perhaps the fact I used to believe so profoundly and now I don’t, makes you wonder, and you have to be open to the fact that maybe it will come back. I can't empathize with him here though. Once you see the man behind the curtain, you can't forget he was there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 “Now perhaps the fact I used to believe so profoundly and now I don’t, makes you wonder, and you have to be open to the fact that maybe it will come back. I can't empathize with him here though. Once you see the man behind the curtain, you can't forget he was there. Yeah, that's the bit I got stuck on. Which was why I was wondering about his reasons for not believing anymore. What has been learned cannot be unlearned, except with a big dose of permanent amnesia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. When you think about it, though, anyone could have done a better job creating everything than whatever deity you want to name apparently has. I could have done better, but I am unable to, so I can't be a deity. If I can see many places where improvements could be made, in my non-deity state of existence, but a deity didn't think of it themselves, despite ALL of the time they've had to make improvements, then I am left to conclude that either our darling deity is either very stupid, or just very embarrassed that the process they started out-smarted them, and that is the reason it's no-where to be found. Maybe that was why all the other deities throughout history were invented; the real deity is just too much of an embarrassment to humankind. I have always found that funny, smart enough to know quantum physics better then are best scientists and yet does so much dumb shit. Embarrassed I doubt it, look at the word faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. When you think about it, though, anyone could have done a better job creating everything than whatever deity you want to name apparently has. I could have done better, but I am unable to, so I can't be a deity. If I can see many places where improvements could be made, in my non-deity state of existence, but a deity didn't think of it themselves, despite ALL of the time they've had to make improvements, then I am left to conclude that either our darling deity is either very stupid, or just very embarrassed that the process they started out-smarted them, and that is the reason it's no-where to be found. Maybe that was why all the other deities throughout history were invented; the real deity is just too much of an embarrassment to humankind. I have always found that funny, smart enough to know quantum physics better then are best scientists and yet does so much dumb shit. Embarrassed I doubt it, look at the word faith. Faith for the stupid deity translates to "I've got it all under control, trust me (oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, what the hell am I doing??!!)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. When you think about it, though, anyone could have done a better job creating everything than whatever deity you want to name apparently has. I could have done better, but I am unable to, so I can't be a deity. If I can see many places where improvements could be made, in my non-deity state of existence, but a deity didn't think of it themselves, despite ALL of the time they've had to make improvements, then I am left to conclude that either our darling deity is either very stupid, or just very embarrassed that the process they started out-smarted them, and that is the reason it's no-where to be found. Maybe that was why all the other deities throughout history were invented; the real deity is just too much of an embarrassment to humankind. I have always found that funny, smart enough to know quantum physics better then are best scientists and yet does so much dumb shit. Embarrassed I doubt it, look at the word faith. Faith for the stupid deity translates to "I've got it all under control, trust me (oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, what the hell am I doing??!!)" My thoughts exactly. I have equated the planet earth created by god is like, a engineer carpenter building a expensive mansion and forgetting to put windows and doors on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Ever take a look at the White Wolf RPG system "Scion"? If I'd run into this gaming system while fundie, I would have had some significant faith problems pretty damn quick. Seems like in the four or five campaigns I've run using it, I've come up with as many different cosmologies to explain what Christianity was and what its underpinnings are, and every single time I get something that makes an eerie amount of plausible sense. When I joke about how hard it'd be to deliberately *create* a religion as harmful and as powerfully manipulative as Christianity, I'm not kidding at all. I've actually done it several times and while my results sound more sensible, they absolutely come nowhere close to the harmful reality we see every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 6, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2012 The way I see it, true agnosticism is being truly open to both possibilities, and that sounds like a state he desires. Agnosticism is the position of believing that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of god is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailBlazer Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well hey, they're praying for him. Isn't that nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inqui Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The way I see it, true agnosticism is being truly open to both possibilities, and that sounds like a state he desires. Agnosticism is the position of believing that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of god is impossible. I'm sure there's a proper word for it somewhere. There are so many shades of theism you seem to need a degree to understand them all. However, the logical extension of not knowing whether or not God exists is being open to evidence both ways. Since the description I gave is about a current state, the word is probably atheist but that doesn't seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inqui Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well hey, they're praying for him. Isn't that nice. They're good like that. Trust in the Lord and his mysterious ways and all. If He really wants His prodigal son back He'll make it happen, for He is good, and His Mercy endures Forever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted August 6, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2012 Well hey, they're praying for him. Isn't that nice. They're good like that. Trust in the Lord and his mysterious ways and all. If He really wants His prodigal son back He'll make it happen, for He is good, and His Mercy endures Forever. Yeah ....trust in the lord.....baloney I love (and hate) this comment at the bottom....''Dear Edwards, I am very sorry you lost your faith. Some times happens because we not focus on god but on pepole or problems, i pray in jesus name your faith will be back''........ The problem is of course, is that we simply did not focus on god enough............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. When you think about it, though, anyone could have done a better job creating everything than whatever deity you want to name apparently has. I could have done better, but I am unable to, so I can't be a deity. If I can see many places where improvements could be made, in my non-deity state of existence, but a deity didn't think of it themselves, despite ALL of the time they've had to make improvements, then I am left to conclude that either our darling deity is either very stupid, or just very embarrassed that the process they started out-smarted them, and that is the reason it's no-where to be found. Maybe that was why all the other deities throughout history were invented; the real deity is just too much of an embarrassment to humankind. I have always found that funny, smart enough to know quantum physics better then are best scientists and yet does so much dumb shit. Embarrassed I doubt it, look at the word faith. Faith for the stupid deity translates to "I've got it all under control, trust me (oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, what the hell am I doing??!!)" My thoughts exactly. I have equated the planet earth created by god is like, a engineer carpenter building a expensive mansion and forgetting to put windows and doors on it. Losing interest in a project and failing to complete it is a common trait among those with Attention Deficit Disorder. While I can't be 100% sure this is the proper diagnosis for Bible God, it is starting to ADD up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Came across this yesterday: http://www.christian...-lost-god-p1979 I think the most relevant thing stated by him was that he was 'internally happy' more than he'd even been in his life. That's the key thing, at least to me but I would use the word 'content' in place of 'happy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pox Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'd love to hear more on his reasons for losing his faith. I don't quite understand how one could lose their faith to the point of atheism and then turn around and say, "you never know, it may come back". Unless something he's said was taken out of context. He just says that for his mom. (Or, it's a Christian magazine with an agenda and they tell the story they want to tell.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'd love to hear more on his reasons for losing his faith. I don't quite understand how one could lose their faith to the point of atheism and then turn around and say, "you never know, it may come back". Unless something he's said was taken out of context. He just says that for his mom. (Or, it's a Christian magazine with an agenda and they tell the story they want to tell.) Yeah, they never actually went into his reasons for losing his faith. I wonder if they even asked, or if he told them and it was just too unpalatable for them. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Interesting article. It's on a Christian site that seems to suffer particularly from "head-up-its-ass syndrome." Here's their idea of six words that define the modern church --nary a mention of "homophobic," "disproven," "politicized," "authoritarian," "misogynistic," "backwards," or any of the others that far better define the modern church. The problem isn't just that Christianity has no proof whatsoever for any of its claims. It's that if proof did emerge that it was all true, at that point we're left with a deity who is by turns completely unhelpful, barbaric, and cruel beyond all logical comprehension and a religious system that seems precisely designed to inflict pain both by the divine and by its leaders, maintain institutionalized misogyny and homophobia, and maintain a variety of other social sicknesses. No, I wouldn't convert to Christianity even if I found out it were true, but I definitely would join whatever rebellion emerged immediately after the proof was unveiled. I would not continue to maintain that it was all fake and untrue. That'd be intellectually dishonest. So there is my answer to those fundies who claim that even if God did actually show himself that I'd continue to say I disbelieved. Belief doesn't mean allegiance. When you think about it, though, anyone could have done a better job creating everything than whatever deity you want to name apparently has. I could have done better, but I am unable to, so I can't be a deity. If I can see many places where improvements could be made, in my non-deity state of existence, but a deity didn't think of it themselves, despite ALL of the time they've had to make improvements, then I am left to conclude that either our darling deity is either very stupid, or just very embarrassed that the process they started out-smarted them, and that is the reason it's no-where to be found. Maybe that was why all the other deities throughout history were invented; the real deity is just too much of an embarrassment to humankind. I have always found that funny, smart enough to know quantum physics better then are best scientists and yet does so much dumb shit. Embarrassed I doubt it, look at the word faith. Faith for the stupid deity translates to "I've got it all under control, trust me (oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, what the hell am I doing??!!)" My thoughts exactly. I have equated the planet earth created by god is like, a engineer carpenter building a expensive mansion and forgetting to put windows and doors on it. This discussion reminds me of another favorite from DarkMatter: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I would think it would be tough to go to illogical to logical and then back to illogical. But that's just me being logical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Maybe this will shed some light on why he left. He has a deep, theological comprehension of the Bible, making his spiritual meltdown even more unlikely. Even so, in the midst of his crisis of faith, Edwards will be accompanying Alison and their sons to their local church this morning. "They still go to church as a family,' explained a friend. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435374/Olympic-champ-Jonathan-Edwards-insists-marriage-intact-despite-Christianity-crisis.html#ixzz22nCcu1J6 Only christians who've never studied the bible actually believe this myth. The more theological comprehension of the bible one has the harder it is to remain faithful. I always hear this, how can you know so much about the bible and not believe....well its precisely because I know so much about the bible that I don't believe. I bet its the same for Edwards. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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