What Killed Your Faith For Good?

[Lucynia]

There were a few phases for me, and I'll try to keep it concise.  

 

I grew up in a christian home, was very active in youth groups all my life.  When I was 16, my family made a major move to a different state.  I was uprooted; no friends, no other relatives near by.  We started going to a new church in our much smaller town.  I went on a youth retreat with that group, and one of the youth pastors was talking to the girls small group about 'blasphemy against the holy spirit'.  I had never heard that term before, since the churches I went to as a child taught 'once saved always saved'.  So this troubled me deeply, that there was basically no way to know if one was saved, of if we had truly committed this unforgivable sin.

 

A few years later, in my late teens, I began college in a town close to where I grew up, under the presumption that my christian friends from before I moved would be interested in having me around again.  Boy was I wrong.  But that wasn't in itself a de-conversion step.  In my first semester, I read Bacchae by Euripides in my Humanities class.  One of the assignments was to show how Dionysus was different from Jesus of Nazareth.  That assignment was the second major blow to my faith.

 

In my early 20's I wanted nothing to do with god.  I was completely disillusioned with christians and the church.  The church my family attended offered an internship program/classes to become a minister.  I'm not sure why I signed up, but I did, thinking god was calling me back.  I even prayed what my church called a 'dangerous prayer' for complete transformation.  I asked god to do whatever was necessary to bring me back to him, to make me a true believer.

 

I could spend pages on all the horrible things that happened as part of that program, from misogynistic students to mentors who were uninterested in anything but what I could do to lighten their work load, to 'friends' that always left me out of plans.  Even a predatory fellow intern that had a thing for mind games and feeling like a savior to young women.  

 

I've still not forgiven many of the people involved in this phase of my de-conversion.

 

Fast forward to about a year ago, in my late 20's.  I've been active in church the past 6 years, my husband is a believer.  I really do like the church I'm currently at for the most part.  They are welcoming, there aren't the cliques I've encountered at previous churches.  The pastor is sincere and simple, not relying on fancy apologetics and convoluted proofs or carefully tailored services meant to provoke specific emotions.  So I wrote a lengthy e-mail to him about the role of women in the church.  At that point in my life, I wanted to do something with my pastoral training.  The church has been looking for an associate pastor, and I thought, 'why not me?'.  

 

At a Lutheran church, I could never be a pastor.  Just because of my gender.  

 

That was the final blow.

 

How could a god I loved, who loved me, who I wanted to serve, decided on a whim at my birth that the desires to be part of the clergy later in life would never come to fruition in the church I loved because of how god made me a woman?

 

That was unacceptable to me, and over many months of prayers, tears, anger and bitterness I've finally been able to let go.

 

I know it's still pretty long, but that's the short version!  

 

So now I'm here, and feeling like my old, church inflicted wounds are healing at last.

 

Thank you everyone for making this such a wonderful place, I truly appreciate it!

[NeverAgainV]

There were a few phases for me, and I'll try to keep it concise.  

 

I grew up in a christian home, was very active in youth groups all my life.  When I was 16, my family made a major move to a different state.  I was uprooted; no friends, no other relatives near by.  We started going to a new church in our much smaller town.  I went on a youth retreat with that group, and one of the youth pastors was talking to the girls small group about 'blasphemy against the holy spirit'.  I had never heard that term before, since the churches I went to as a child taught 'once saved always saved'.  So this troubled me deeply, that there was basically no way to know if one was saved, of if we had truly committed this unforgivable sin.

 

A few years later, in my late teens, I began college in a town close to where I grew up, under the presumption that my christian friends from before I moved would be interested in having me around again.  Boy was I wrong.  But that wasn't in itself a de-conversion step.  In my first semester, I read Bacchae by Euripides in my Humanities class.  One of the assignments was to show how Dionysus was different from Jesus of Nazareth.  That assignment was the second major blow to my faith.

 

In my early 20's I wanted nothing to do with god.  I was completely disillusioned with christians and the church.  The church my family attended offered an internship program/classes to become a minister.  I'm not sure why I signed up, but I did, thinking god was calling me back.  I even prayed what my church called a 'dangerous prayer' for complete transformation.  I asked god to do whatever was necessary to bring me back to him, to make me a true believer.

 

I could spend pages on all the horrible things that happened as part of that program, from misogynistic students to mentors who were uninterested in anything but what I could do to lighten their work load, to 'friends' that always left me out of plans.  Even a predatory fellow intern that had a thing for mind games and feeling like a savior to young women.  

 

I've still not forgiven many of the people involved in this phase of my de-conversion.

 

Fast forward to about a year ago, in my late 20's.  I've been active in church the past 6 years, my husband is a believer.  I really do like the church I'm currently at for the most part.  They are welcoming, there aren't the cliques I've encountered at previous churches.  The pastor is sincere and simple, not relying on fancy apologetics and convoluted proofs or carefully tailored services meant to provoke specific emotions.  So I wrote a lengthy e-mail to him about the role of women in the church.  At that point in my life, I wanted to do something with my pastoral training.  The church has been looking for an associate pastor, and I thought, 'why not me?'.  

 

At a Lutheran church, I could never be a pastor.  Just because of my gender.  

 

That was the final blow.

 

How could a god I loved, who loved me, who I wanted to serve, decided on a whim at my birth that the desires to be part of the clergy later in life would never come to fruition in the church I loved because of how god made me a woman?

 

That was unacceptable to me, and over many months of prayers, tears, anger and bitterness I've finally been able to let go.

 

I know it's still pretty long, but that's the short version!  

 

So now I'm here, and feeling like my old, church inflicted wounds are healing at last.

 

Thank you everyone for making this such a wonderful place, I truly appreciate it!

Welcome Lucynia! I am not a Christian anymore but after being raised Catholic, joining the bible cult, then leaving the bible cult- I ended up

at the Lutheran LCMS. They are a lot more conservative than the ELCA-Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America. I am pretty sure the ELCA allows for women pastors & accepts gays, but the LCMS, as far as I know does not.

 

Not that I believe any of it, but you must have been involved in the more conservative branch of Lutheranism.

It's all still nonsense...hoops to jump through and you will never ever be good enough, always a "wretched sinner" *sigh*

[Lucynia]

Welcome Lucynia! I am not a Christian anymore but after being raised Catholic, joining the bible cult, then leaving the bible cult- I ended up

at the Lutheran LCMS. They are a lot more conservative than the ELCA-Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America. I am pretty sure the ELCA allows for women pastors & accepts gays, but the LCMS, as far as I know does not.

 

Not that I believe any of it, but you must have been involved in the more conservative branch of Lutheranism.

It's all still nonsense...hoops to jump through and you will never ever be good enough, always a "wretched sinner" *sigh*

 

Thanks for the welcome!  

 

Ha, you nailed it!  LCMS.  It's a very liberal church for the synod, but that's not enough for me.  I grew up mostly in southern baptist and non-denominational churches, so when I moved to my current state where everyone is Catholic or Lutheran, it was quite a shock.  My husband wanted me to work for change from the inside, but I didn't feel like it was my place to fight against their core beliefs.  Doesn't matter that much to me now, aside from being sad for all the wonderful, talented, compassionate young women at the church.  I think the church as a whole does itself a great disservice by excluding half the population from leadership just based on gender!

[NeverAgainV]

 

Welcome Lucynia! I am not a Christian anymore but after being raised Catholic, joining the bible cult, then leaving the bible cult- I ended up

at the Lutheran LCMS. They are a lot more conservative than the ELCA-Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America. I am pretty sure the ELCA allows for women pastors & accepts gays, but the LCMS, as far as I know does not.

 

Not that I believe any of it, but you must have been involved in the more conservative branch of Lutheranism.

It's all still nonsense...hoops to jump through and you will never ever be good enough, always a "wretched sinner" *sigh*

 

Thanks for the welcome!  

 

Ha, you nailed it!  LCMS.  It's a very liberal church for the synod, but that's not enough for me.  I grew up mostly in southern baptist and non-denominational churches, so when I moved to my current state where everyone is Catholic or Lutheran, it was quite a shock.  My husband wanted me to work for change from the inside, but I didn't feel like it was my place to fight against their core beliefs.  Doesn't matter that much to me now, aside from being sad for all the wonderful, talented, compassionate young women at the church.  I think the church as a whole does itself a great disservice by excluding half the population from leadership just based on gender!

 

Yeah, the Catholics are the same...no women priests. Though you can be a nun if you want. LOL.

[BlindersRemoved]

The final straw was reading a book called "Coming to Peace with Science." As a devout christian, I had always blown off evolution and everything scientific that contradicted the idea of god. Since I had gotten to the point that I could no longer read the bible, I started looking at science. A believer gave me this book to actually help me restore my faith. It had the opposite effect.

 

The book is written by a christian biologist and tries to explain that evolution is part of god's plan. He lays out the case for evolution and then attempts to use scripture to show that it was god doing it. I remember rolling my eyes a lot and thinking that you would have to be a complete idiot to believe this bullshit. By the time I finished the book I was calling my self an agnostic.

[Guest afireinside]

I remember exactly when I knew I didn't believe anymore. I was trying to reconcile this reality with all the statements/promises/doctrines, etc about god. The only way to do so was to realize that god does not exist.

 

I actually toyed with the idea that I was one of the predestined damned -I wanted to "be a child of god" - be obedient, faithful, etc, but for some reason god was not responding, thought his "word" said he should. However, anybody I'd ever talked to about the subject said that if you weren't one of god's chosen, you wouldn't really care about being right with him. Then, I recalled all those people who were full blown calvinists who felt anxious because they didn't reall know if they were truly chosen - you know, - the really, really, really REALLLLLLLLy really actual chosen ones.

 

I thought to myself,"This is insane! Way too irrational. We're not talking about life's profound mysteries, but nutcase, irreconcilable and conflicting doctrines and statements in the bible."

 

I finally realized the reason I couldn't figure out where god was in my life was because there was no god to be there.

My exact experience! That and my friends 5yo dying. Never found out out until after his passing following 2 days in intensive care- God didn't even ask me to pray for him so he can't have mattered too much

[EternalEquinox]

It didn't take much for me to lose my belief in Xtianity... 
 

Step 1: Have family (and extended family) believe in supernatural crap, christianity, psychic woo, etc. 

Step 2: Have an idiot for a father (adoptive) who also happens to be religiously brought up. 

 

Step 3: Family follows steps 1 & 2 but very lightly sprinkles it into the background of my childhood and states xtianity almost fact-like, as well as the other crap but not on a constant basis. 

Step 4: Have difficult childhood up to 11 and move to a bible-belt state. 

Step 5: Have single-parent (idiot) father date someone who is similar to POS adoptive "mother" in several ways. 

Step 6: Idiot father continues to date POS girlfriend in cycles (break-up, back together, break-up, etc..).   
Step 7: Idiot attempts to justify POS GF shitty behavior using religion. Ex:) "God brought us together and I know because I felt the 'holy spirit'".   

Step 8: Get confused b/c you were told God was supposed to be good, know what was good for you, do what was good for you...etc.

Step 9: Search internet and YouTube after too much of Step(s) 6 and 7 for four years.

Step 10: I gain +100 knowledge skill points and +60 in Critical Thinking.

Step 11: Buys 1st "atheist" book. (The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins)

Step 12: Subscribes to many atheist, science, skeptic channels. 

Step 13: Joins Ex-C after reading an article about fundies on AlterNet.

Step 14: Feels amazing, happy, and safe.    

Sorry for my little vent/rant!!  

Step(s) 6 and 7 were critical for my deconversion! Just an FYI!  

[EternalEquinox]

Also, very sorry Mod(s)! If you deem my post above isn't appropriate for this section of the forums and belongs in rants, would you please move it (or delete it if need be, whichever)? I would appreciate it if you could. Thanks!

I'm still getting used to where everything is on the site! 

[sparklingphoenix]

Mine reason is similar, I did have questions along the way about why a loving god would tell his people to kill other people in the Old Testament, and no one had a good answer for me. Also my parents pulled a lot of shit on me and my brother for most of my life. Terrible childhood + fundamental Christianity doesn't work well to produce Christians I think. Being underage and being powerless against two abusers really makes you question where the hell is god? Then I realized that there isn't a god and he isn't going to help me, so I helped myself my brother and I both started questioning things around the same time, and on a family vacation at the beach with my mom and grandparents we went out to the beach at night and talked in the dark about a lot of serious questions like is there really a god, is Christianity true, what if there are aliens, and if there were what would that mean about Christianity? It was a good talk and I felt so relieved that I wasn't alone in my family.

[sparklingphoenix]

I also owe a lot of my mind opening to my boyfriend. He has always been an atheist and I just couldn't understand why Christianity tells you who you can and can't marry. I know my family will be really freaked out when they find out , so shhh! But I owe a lot of the freeing of my mind to him, because he asked me hard questions and made me think more critically about my faith. I just couldn't reconcile the fact that I really love him and the Christian religion would want me to end a relationship that made me happy just because he's not Christian.

[Deidre]

The Bible, when I read it objectively. That's what did it. The only explanation for a book so filled with hate, oppression, bigotry, racism and violence would be that it's a creation of man. Man's depravity being given a license to exist. Man's depravity being excused under the guise of 'religion.'

 

Man creating a god in the likeness of himself. Not the other way around.

[Dagny]

My brain and all the good sources for answers online! Important influences: Richard Dawkins the Atheist Experience and Evid3nc3. Of course they don't read this, but anyways: thanks for teaching me to think rationally. I don't know how I would've made it without such great people!

[Ousian]

The first step for me was resisting some of the politically "incorrect" teachings, homosexuality is a sin, women can't be presidents, etc.  Long before my deconversion I was sure all those things were not morally wrong.  I didn't tell anybody, and the dichotomy between what the Bible said on those things and my own political views caused me to focus on the subject of my worldview much more.  

 

Eventually, however, what really got to me was the subjectivity inherent in religion.  There are literally thousands of divisions within the Christian church alone.  I can't believe how Christians can wholeheartedly believe in their churches teachings, and literally laugh at other Christians' viewpoints.  Our family used to make fun of pentecostals/speaking in tongues, and I had no doubt it was absurd.  But I blindly followed my own pastor without question.  As soon as I recognized how hypocritical that was, I realized how close-minded I had been for the first 18 years of my life.

[NeverAgainV]

The first step for me was resisting some of the politically "incorrect" teachings, homosexuality is a sin, women can't be presidents, etc.  Long before my deconversion I was sure all those things were not morally wrong.  I didn't tell anybody, and the dichotomy between what the Bible said on those things and my own political views caused me to focus on the subject of my worldview much more.  

 

Eventually, however, what really got to me was the subjectivity inherent in religion.  There are literally thousands of divisions within the Christian church alone.  I can't believe how Christians can wholeheartedly believe in their churches teachings, and literally laugh at other Christians' viewpoints.  Our family used to make fun of pentecostals/speaking in tongues, and I had no doubt it was absurd.  But I blindly followed my own pastor without question.  As soon as I recognized how hypocritical that was, I realized how close-minded I had been for the first 18 years of my life.

Oh I know it Bluel0bster. I looked around too and thought for a "god" to write some book where believers kill each other over issues of dogma?? WTF kind of god would write a book that would cause such anguish for it's "creation"? Seriously and from what I saw in the fundamentalist sect I was invovled in was WALLS Being built...between other christians. OTHER BELIEVERS were considered deceived and our enemies. I just thought where the hell is the supposed "unity of the faith"? There ISN'T any in christendom. What IS the supposed "faith ONCE delivered..." when nobody but nobody can agree on what the hell it is?!

 

Jeeze! LOL So glad to be out of it. I'm just sorry it took so damn long!!

[Insightful]

For me, parenting my adopted daughter led to my loss of faith.  The Bible (and the "spiritual leaders" in my life) told me that my child's intense misbehavior was SIN and that I needed to BREAK HER WILL.

 

So, wanting to save her soul, I spanked her often and with much force - something I now hate myself for.  Ironically, all of that spanking and lecturing her on her "sinfulness" only made her behavior worse.

 

It was secular psychology that helped me to understand that her troubling behaviors were the product of being orphaned, abandoned, and institutionalized.  She didn't need her will "broken", she needed to know that she was loved, secure, and safe.  When she was acting out, she was really crying out for love and acceptance.

 

All of my intense discipline only served to increase her anxiety, fear, insecurity, and self-loathing.  Now it will take years (if ever) to undo the psychological harm I caused her.

 

I couldn't square the Christian understanding of human behavior (sin from a depraved heart) with real psychology (bad choices resulting from fear and insecurity).  And I couldn't make sense of why God would have allowed me to go down such a destructive parenting path if He truly cared about orphans...

 

Also, we were doing work at an orphanage in Africa and I was holding a beautiful 7 month old baby girl - and this thought occurred to me:  I would traved half-way around the world to help this baby, but God would have drowned her in the flood or ordered her killed if she belonged to the wrong people-group.

[Aries256]

Well it was the usual myriad of bullshit that turned me off xtianity, but the final driving blow was the anti gay bigotry. Which converted me from simply non xtian to full anti abrahamic religion.

[Deidre]

I'd say logic opened my eyes to the falsehoods of religion. I was indoctrinated as a kid into Christianity and as an adult, I clung to it for comfort and out of fear. Fear that if I didn't stick with it, something awful would happen to me in this life or the next. Logic stepped in and I started to really reflect as to why I was calling myself a Christian. I didn't like the answers and logic won out every time my mind would go through those little battles.

 

Many people make decisions based on emotion. Religions feed off of people like this, sadly. :/

[CC91UK]

I think it was either when I realised I didn't believe in 'original sin', or when my vicar said that "life is a test". On the latter point, I couldn't accept that God would 'use' things like child abuse from Catholic priests to test people's faith.

[Sparky]

For me, it was realizing that I had so much more to hope for in life than "heaven" :-) In this faith that claims "love wins", we are forced to believe that we can neither do good things or have a great life. Its also a lie in morality, as its all about escaping hell, rather than teaching us to face their fears and help one another. If it can't even give us a decent moral standard to follow at its best, what more is there to say?

[Margee]

All the suffering in the world 

 

 Jack ass god....that's what 'he' is.....

[Guest Furball]

Bart ehrman's book misquoting jesus and jesus interrupted. Mark kielar of crosstv telling me that the whole reason jesus came was to trample us all under his feet, not to save us.  Ray comfort convincing me that god hated me. My own experiences-that when i obeyed jesus (the word of god), all the things he promised never came true. 

[rach]

For me, parenting my adopted daughter led to my loss of faith.  The Bible (and the "spiritual leaders" in my life) told me that my child's intense misbehavior was SIN and that I needed to BREAK HER WILL.

 

So, wanting to save her soul, I spanked her often and with much force - something I now hate myself for.  Ironically, all of that spanking and lecturing her on her "sinfulness" only made her behavior worse.

 

Also, we were doing work at an orphanage in Africa and I was holding a beautiful 7 month old baby girl - and this thought occurred to me:  I would traved half-way around the world to help this baby, but God would have drowned her in the flood or ordered her killed if she belonged to the wrong people-group.

Thanks for writing this.  I am an adoptee too.  Racially from a people group that "the Lord" doesn't seem all too fond of.  My adoptive parents always meant the best for me and I know that.  But they did get involved in the popular program of the eighties, "growing kids god's way."  My miserable lot!  The fundamentalist community taught my parents to break my will as well.  My memories of childhood are heatbreaking and I don't even ever want to think about it.  My will was already broken!  I had already lost my beloved family and was traumatized beyond recovery and still am coping with profound grief.  And contrary to Christian opinion, having one's "will broken" is an incredibly harmful thing.  Nobody should be broken.  A broken will means depression, lack of motivation, lack of energy, lack of any kind of self respect or self love (two other things Christians object to).  All I needed was love.  Not Christ.  Not terrorizing hellfire sermons and being screamed at every time I "sinned."  Just love and understanding and proper care. 

[wanderingthoughts]

A few things that did it for me was the realisation that if the Bible was the infallible and inerrant Word of God, then fallible humans couldn't achieve that, either writing it or determining what books go in it. Also, I realised that there was no god responding to me when I prayed and natural explanations of phenomena made more sense.  

[GoldenWolf]

I decided to take a break and think about what I truly believed in. I realised I didn't have much of a faith and didn't really serve God much, the only reason I even considered myself as Christian because my parents raised me into it. I did some research and a few hours later I realised Christianity was not for me. 

[yunea]

My final moment was in the middle of a horrible mess anyway, but I remember feeling sick of everything and all kinds of unsafe. Broken promises and a very dangerous false sense of safety from the god I'd trusted for so long. I knew I wasn't protected at all. I knew I was in my own hands only, and that thinking I'd had a higher power on my side nearly cost me my life. 

 

I wish my first moment of doubt had done it for me, as a teenager, when I'd gotten into Pentecostalism. I got this nagging thought "what if ANY of this isn't real". I made the mistake of telling an older person in the church, and she promptly said "that's Satan talking to you, Satan wants you to stop. Everyone who God is using a lot gets resistance from evil" and we prayed really hard for these thoughts to go away. What a way to manipulate a young insecure girl.