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From my experience (not as extensive as yours, Vig)

 

Are you saying I'm old? smile.png

 

"do I want any drama in my life"?

 

Given how he responded to me and how he's just cut me out of his life before, I'm pretty sure now I don't want to invest any more emotional capital with him. I don't think I have it in me and knowing him, I don't expect an apology out of him, which I need at this point if things were to move forward. I'm not going to push him for one; I doubt I'll get the chance anyway.

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You're just fishing for points.

OK, he's got issues of which you know nothing about. That's pretty clear since there's no communication to you about his needs in the friendship. This forces you to give up or attempt to be a psychic

I always knew Vig was a dick.

Vigile, this really sucks and hurts a lot. My best friend in the whole world who is also my 1st cousin, (we grew up together) started to do this to me on and off for the last ten years. I would always apologize. He sent me an e-mail one time... the day before I went on a cruise (I got all excited thinking he was going to wish me a good trip) and it was so hateful, that it almost ruined my whole cruise..

 

Hi Margee, yeah, that's pretty much exactly how he caught me off guard with this.

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Clearly in his mind there is an established chain of incidences which bear some commonality with this most recent one with regard to your alleged using and fucking over of people. I'd ask him to provide a couple examples if you can work your way around to it. If he cannot, or perhaps first, as a way of getting him to provide said examples, I'd say, in these exact words: "Really? That? That's all? Well, see you around. Or not."

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Clearly in his mind there is an established chain of incidences which bear some commonality with this most recent one with regard to your alleged using and fucking over of people. I'd ask him to provide a couple examples if you can work your way around to it. If he cannot, or perhaps first, as a way of getting him to provide said examples, I'd say, in these exact words: "Really? That? That's all? Well, see you around. Or not."

 

I doubt he is ready to communicate on any level now given how he handled this and his history. I imagine now I've been moved over into the enemy category with him now. He has a long list of them, including his brother, who he has been trying to have put in jail because he thinks he is using his mother (the reasons are almost as petty as the reason he thinks I used him). I think it's time to move on.

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That's it. I guess I used him because he told me a name of a school to look up on the internet and the phone number of a guy who works there. And apparently this was such a huge slight that it's worth nuking a friendship over. Wendyshrug.gif

 

This was exactly the same with my cousin Vigile. If i didn't do or act a certain way in the last few years of our friendship - he would drop me for 2 months and not even pick up the phone. This was a guy I grew up with and hung out with until about 10 years ago when it started sliding. I mean, we were soooo close. I went to live with him for a month every year out in the Hollywood Hills!!!

He was my 'brother'. I just sent him a letter about 6 months ago saying that I thought we would die together.... and still no repsonce. We used to be on the phone once a week for an hour. ..........We spent our childhood and teenage years with each other everyday. It's heartbreaking when the personality changes so quickly. It really sucks when people treat people badly.

 

I think I'll treat eveyone nice today...............

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I agree it hurts. I had someone dump me this February that I'd been friends with for a little over 20 years, simply because I don't buy everything his favorite conspiracy theorist talk show host believes.

Last time he didn't say anything. He just left my wife and I guessing. The sweater was the best we could do with our imagination. I've never even had an argument with him.

It seems to me that it's ridiculous that he would do that. Even though it hurts, it's a decision of whether or not you want him and his drama in your life.

 

He responded to my confused reply telling me why he is angry. He said he tried to get me a job and I fucked him.

 

Here's the story if anyone's interested. I'm getting my Russian residency and one of the requirements is that I have a proven income. For the past 10 years I've worked for myself and don't have an income I can prove to the Russian government. Thus, I need to get a part time job teaching English or something. He gave me the contact info for a guy at an English school, I set up an interview, met with them, and was given this horrific grammar test wanting me to explain the use of a gerund and the difference between present perfect continuous and past perfect, etc... There was 8 pages of this, so I told the school I would need to go home and brush up on it, otherwise I would fail.

 

Then, in our conversation yesterday, I told him, I wasn't sure if I'd go back to that school as I have an interview with a couple of other schools and perhaps they won't be so crazy about formal grammar rules, which I think students don't need anyway.

 

That's it. I guess I used him because he told me a name of a school to look up on the internet and the phone number of a guy who works there. And apparently this was such a huge slight that it's worth nuking a friendship over. Wendyshrug.gif

 

Dude really needs to get over himself. That's all I'd write back. "Dude, get over yourself."

 

But that could just be my periods talking.

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I think I'll treat eveyone nice today...............

 

I think that's the absolute best response to all of this. Thank you. :)

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Dude really needs to get over himself. That's all I'd write back. "Dude, get over yourself."

 

But that could just be my periods talking.

 

Here's my exact response to him, which I sent this morning:

 

"You have more than just a little overreacted here. Again, I wish you only the best."

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Dude really needs to get over himself. That's all I'd write back. "Dude, get over yourself."

 

But that could just be my periods talking.

 

Here's my exact response to him, which I sent this morning:

 

"You have more than just a little overreacted here. Again, I wish you only the best."

 

Yeah, that would be the nice way of saying it lol.

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I think that was the best route to go with him.

 

When I said "verbal whipping boy" I didn't mean necessarily argument fodder. I meant that when he needed to find someone to manipulate and use to raise his social meter (Sims term there, yay nerdisms), you were the only one available. It doesn't shock me that he has burned all these bridges. He's going to be pretty lonely if he can't figure out how to keep friends. (PS: I taught English in Japan and though they are two different countries, I have no doubt in the world you'll find a school that concentrates more on the conversational side of things. Some schools just emphasize the written/grammatical side more.)

 

I had a person I thought was a friend who was like that... I should have seen the red flags. I didn't. She gossiped constantly about others to me and the way she talked, she was constantly being hurt and betrayed by her friends. She just couldn't keep friends ever. I tried to be her friend. I thought we were. She begged me to join some email list she'd put together of her buddies--a slutcourt if there ever was one, worshiping the one and only Queen Bee. I found out the hard way that she'd been talking shit about me behind my back--saying the most shameful things, pure lies and fabrications--when I disagreed with someone's opinion on the list and suddenly everybody was leaping up to attack me. One guy even physically threatened me. I had no idea what the fuck was going on, what I could possibly have said to make them all so furious, till she released, in the guise of her husband, a ten-page manifesto detailing my sins against her and humanity. I had no idea what to think; I was devastated. I cut all ties with her and her entire slutcourt. Some years later the husband reappeared to apologize for his part in the fiasco, saying he'd learned over time that she tended to act that way to women she thought threatened her Queen Bee status, but I'd learned my lesson by then. I accepted his apology, but we were never friends after that. I didn't need that kind of drama in my life. Your friend will likely reappear in your life again, especially if you two are some of the few Americans in the area. Japan was like that; where I was wasn't the huge mecca that Tokyo was, so expatriates had this tribal mentality, like they felt like they had to stick together. Think long and hard about whether or not you want that to happen.

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It seems this situation is relatively common from the comments here. I had no idea. When I read your experience with your friend Akheia, I found myself nodding saying to myself, yup, yup, yup. I'm really starting to burn over his accusation of me now as just a few months ago he suggested to me in half seriousness that I take client money that I'm managing and run off to Thailand. I couldn't in a million years do that to someone and the idea of it would never even enter my mind and here he is accusing me of using people. Serious gall.

 

The good news is, we are having a bunch of friends over tonight, so I'll be surrounded with loved ones instead of sitting around feeling pity. :)

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I'd say this is no big loss. I hate to lose friends too, but it happens. And I figure that if they're going to require constant maintenance and/or tip-toeing around some pet issue, then they aren't worth the effort anyway. I'm only willing to put in that kind of effort for family- and only to a point.

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I'm glad you'll have friends over tonight! Definitely the best balm for a betrayal is being surrounded by love. :)

 

I can't even chalk Queen Bee's behavior up to Christianity. She and her husband were both pagans--she was Kemetic, he was a druid. Ha!

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Gah, this is so fucked up. First the drama with my buddy, then tonight my wife and her best friend had it out over the Pussy Riot issue at my birthday party, with both of them ending up in tears. The friend said PR invaded a holy space and my wife insisted fuck the church, fuck the church, fuck the church! Both are stubborn and the friend left. I hugged her, told her we loved her, told her I understand her even if I disagree with the church. I hope we don't lose two friends this week. That would really suck.

 

I guess I can no longer claim Russians shrug off politics and religion. I think it's good they are having a debate over this important issue, but I hope it can be constructive, not destructive (I speak of Russians in general and my wife and her friend).

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Dang. That's not good at all to hear. I hope your wife and her friend can patch this up. Russia seems like it's got such a difficult time with religion after all that Communist stuff (at least that's my impression of it), like how Japan is so twitchy around how it treated Korea and China in WWII.

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Dang. That's not good at all to hear. I hope your wife and her friend can patch this up. Russia seems like it's got such a difficult time with religion after all that Communist stuff (at least that's my impression of it), like how Japan is so twitchy around how it treated Korea and China in WWII.

 

Generally, religion is just cultural here, not dogma. I fear my wife knee jerked here in response to my own positions on religion. I hope they can patch things up too. Hopefully this is just the champagne.

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I thought champagne was supposed to make people giggly and happy! You're doing it wrong!

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I thought champagne was supposed to make people giggly and happy! You're doing it wrong!

 

Ha! You haven't seen the effect Russian champagne has on Russian women. smile.png

 

I'm fine, I don't drink champagne. I had a few whiskeys, but I've been here long enough to build up an amazing tolerance.

 

Also, I forgot to mention, I completely agree with you regarding English conversation. I have a TEFL cert and taught English in Italy. I know not all schools focus on grammar. I think you can learn the concepts of grammar without studying the classical terms for grammar structure. It's my theory that if you focus too much on the terminology, you are like a tennis player who thinks too much about the stroke as opposed to just feeling the stroke. That pause keeps you from performing. You and I learned English without ever considering these rules, yet we have mastered the language.

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True dat. I didn't know what an infinitive was till I took French. I'm learning Italian with a very conversational emphasis; I tend to zen languages really well. Now that we seem to have totally hijacked the thread, was it hard/expensive/traumatic to live in Italy? I'm suddenly thinking TEFL might be a good way to do it. Japan was a bit too much of a culture shock. I knew next to nothing about it. I know a lot more about Italy's culture and government, and speak a little of the language whereas I knew not a single word of Japanese when I moved there (it was Evil Ex's idea! I was just being a nice submissive fundie wife).

 

I'd be scared to drink with Russians. Half a beer and I'm gone. No lie. My husband, who has a tolerance closer to yours, thinks it's the funniest damn thing in the world. What does champagne do to Russian women? They already sound scary based on what you've said ;) You and your wife both sound way too rational and sane for that kind of drama.

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Yeah. The problem is clearly with him.

 

I knew a person who was always complaining about drama, and people plotting against her. At first, you think, "wow, these people she's talking about sound like real creeps"... However, after there being a new "crazy person" in her life every week one starts to realize the problem is her. She was always seeing "evil" intention in everyone around her and took the smallest slight as an offence, then retelling the stories with exaggeration to make her the "good guy".

The problem is, they don't see it, they don't see that the problem arises in them and the way they deal with people.

 

Its sad that he's going through this Vigile, but you have to let him see his own problem and fix it. There's nothing you can do. Trust me. This comes from someone who has had troubles with interpersonal relationships (not the same ones as him). Its hard. Best thing to do is to move/continue on. Maybe he'll want to be friends again, maybe he won't. His issues with trusting people aren't something that is your fault.

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was it hard/expensive/traumatic to live in Italy?

 

Greatest country on the planet, greatest time of my life. smile.png

 

I had a very cheap place to stay as I shared a flat with the students I stayed with when I did a study abroad program the year before. I'm not sure it would be so easy today. The cost of living has risen dramatically since the Euro. The downside to teaching there was the fact that the schools tend to send you around town to meet your students, so you spend as much time on the bus as you do in class.

 

I don't tend to get culture shock, so I'm not sure, but generally, I think Italy is a pretty easy transition for an American.

 

What does champagne do to Russian women?

 

It tends to make them dance, then later on, turns them blubbery, where they can start crying and complaining. My wife is a sweetheart, but she can be far from rational, especially when she drinks. She's a big ball of emotion. Sometimes that's great, other times, not so much.

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Greatest country on the planet, greatest time of my life.

 

I hope so. I am going there in 25 days.

 

I highly recommend getting off the beaten path and away from the tourists. Find a nice, out of the way cafe, wine bar, etc... and talk to Italians. IMO, it's the Italian people that make the country so great. The architecture, museums, etc... are nice, but it's the culture that is truly magnificent. If you can swing it, find an agroturismo. These are old farms that the Italian government has sponsored, helping locals find other sources of income, which they turn into small restaurants and bed and breakfasts. There you will eat home cooked food from locally grown produce for very cheap prices. Really amazing.

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This sort of thing has happened to both me and my wife multiple times. Not all the time, mind you, but enough so that it is not a surprising event: twice in the 14 years we have been married, and probably a couple of times to each of us before we met. I'm almost surprised that the typical story in this thread seems to be, "yeah, that happened to me once." I just assumed that the weirding out phenomenon was more common and had happened two or three times to most people. Wendyshrug.gif

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This sort of thing has happened to both me and my wife multiple times. Not all the time, mind you, but enough so that it is not a surprising event: twice in the 14 years we have been married, and probably a couple of times to each of us before we met. I'm almost surprised that the typical story in this thread seems to be, "yeah, that happened to me once." I just assumed that the weirding out phenomenon was more common and had happened two or three times to most people. Wendyshrug.gif

 

I wonder why it's so common. What issues does someone have that makes them want to burn down their friendships? This is just so foreign to my nature of how I could treat another human, I just can't wrap my mind around it.

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