SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 As others have said, it takes lots of time and essentially, you have to reprogram your brain. I don't know if you like reading self-help type books, but Marlene Winell's "Leaving the Fold" was quite helpful to me. I do have Marlene's book and refer to it sometimes. I really appreciate the work she is doing. I am very focused on reprogramming my brain, and am doing a lot of writing, but it's like I'm feeling my way forward. It's not like a there's an instruction manual for this (is there?!). Do you have any specific processes or tactics that you use to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Seek. Welcome to the forum! I have one incredibly simple thought for you: You must realize that there was never anything wrong with you! When you boil down all the xian theologies, the simple fact is that to get/keep you in xianity, someone must convince (and keep convincing and reinforcing to) you that you were/are broken, and that you therefore need(ed) it/him to fix you. That is simply not true. There was no "original sin". You never had an obligation to feel guilt and shame. That was put on you (probably by well meaning people who were just perpetrating their own deception). Be intentional about letting that go. .Dear jblueep: you are absolutely right. I don't know how many times I've been pissed about them beating the hell out of me and then offering to rescue me. WTF?! I'm putting your simple (but powerful) thought in my queue for some active work! I also have a book by Cheri Huber called There Is Nothing Wrong With You; I'm not very Buddhist, but this one is helpful. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Take time to really love yourself. Every time you have a negative thought of doubt or guilt, consciously replace it immediately with an opposing or positive thought: This one might sound a little weird, but just go with it- when you're in a safe quiet place, play some relaxing music, meditate for a bit & keep your thoughts positive. Go back in your mind and picture yourself as a young girl sitting in the church pew or at your fundy parents' house during a time when you felt the most lonely; the most abused; the most ashamed because of religion. Now mentally walk your adult self up to that hurting little girl and comfort her, love on her, tell her the things she needed to hear but never did. And trust your therapist. Dear TrailBlazer: thanks for such blatantly good advice. I could not be loving to myself for the longest time; I tried. It was dismal. I finally saw the intense amount of self-hate I had learned. It might sound odd, but since I had nowhere else to go, I tried observing the self-hate, and seeing it as pathetically in need of help. I sat with it. I listened. I argued with myself about doing something so nuts, but it worked. Now that I'm thinking about it, there is so much less hate than there was. Now I am trying to move toward kindness. It's still hard. I love your visualization idea. My gut tells me that I have an amazing imagination that can help me heal, but I haven't tapped into it yet. I'm not sure how to use it. But I'm definitely going to try your idea, probably with several variations. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hi Seek! I totally understand your rage. Your post reminds me very much of my first posts. You are completly normal.... except for the anger at being told a complete lie all your life. You have a right to be angry.You are going to have to deal with this and there are hundreds of posts here to show you how to get through it. Take a deep breath, do a lot of reading in the testimomies and take your time. Post like crazy!! Get it out! Journaling really helps. That's what I did for 2 years on EX-c and I am almost completely healed. It takes time. It is one thing to find out that a loved one lied to you, let alone the whole god-damned world!! You're here with us now and you are safe. Best of everything on your new path....we are right here for ya. Sincerely, Margee Dear Margee - thank you so much for your emotional support. It really is just what I need right now. It's comforting to hear that I'm normal! And that so many others have gone through this. I think it's going to be quite awhile before I'm done being pissed, not to mention incredulous, that so many people indoctrinated me with a completely fabricated (not to mention harmful) story. Mind-boggling. I have been writing a lot this year. I've kept a journal for a long time, and it's really been getting a workout since this process started. "You're here with us now and you are safe." How reassuring this is - thanks for the encouragement! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 SeekMyWay ((hug)) for you! Yes, crazy making is what it is. I felt a lot like you when I left the cult church. I think it just takes time to allow yourself to feel & think for yourself again. I don't know if this will help you, but reading about the way people are manipulated by religion helped me a lot. You probably already know about "spiritual abuse" if not you can google it. also I began to read the writings of real historical people who were expressing exactly what I thought & felt. That was extremely helpful because it validated what I experienced. I don't have the links right now, but reading the writings of Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine & Ralph Waldo Emerson helped me a lot. I think you can access some of Robert Ingersoll's writings at the bottom of the main page here at Ex-Christian..you gotta look though. If I have time I will find the link for you later. I know it is so difficult, but you really are on the right path!!! Even though everyone around you is telling you you are backslidden or wrong or sinful DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. they are only telling you what they have been told & have probably not given it one bit of REAL THOUGHT & consideration. THEY are the blind ones leading others into their blindness. You are doing the right thing. This is a hard time for you, but it really does get better. Hopefully in time the toxic ideas that have been shoved into your mind will begin to be replaced with positive & good & truthful thoughts. Try to expose yourself to what will help you to move forward because in most cases those religious nuts wont change...& in their twisted minds anyone who disagrees with them will always be wrong. So you wont find any consolation from that close minded & toxic group of people. Not that I hate those people, but it's just how it is. Unless they allow themselves to think outside of that box, they will remain prisoners. One of my favorite quotes from Emerson is: "Do not go where the path may lead. go instead where there is no path & leave a trail" Oh don't know if this will help but I often had to "talk" to myself, reason with myself. It's like I was arguing with the toxic dogma in my own head. an example of a conversation with myself would be: "god hates me because I've left the true church.." "wait..there are thousands of churches who say they are the true church..." "Where is the freedom in Christ? I certainly am not free in this prison of a church & religion??" you see I just kept talking & reasoning & being honest with myself & the truth began to shine through...& the truth was bible religion is a lie! OK I've rambled enough...please take care & you are not alone I promise you that. Dear NeverAgain: Never again is right! I swear I could actually feel your hug; I can't even say how reassuring it is to be embraced and supported by so many people. I have never googled "spiritual abuse", but I am certainly going to. I ran across Robert J Liftons 8 criteria for thought reform, and it really was an AHA moment for me to begin thinking of Xtianity as a cult. I have been using his ideas, plus a bunch of my own, to write about how my religion indoctrinated me. I just keep writing and writing, and it seems like I will never stop - there's so much to say about this. Thank you for the reassurance that I am on the right path. Much of my family is still very Fundy, and it's hard to be around them. I feel like their black hole is sucking me in. But I've noticed lately that it is getting less. "positive & good & truthful thoughts" - I am so looking forward to that state of mind. I have read some of Robert Green Ingersoll. I have a book by Thomas Paine on my shelf, haven't gotten to it yet. I didn't know about Ralph Waldo Emerson - will have to check him out. You're right about the self-talk; I have been trying to do some of that in my quiet time. It is helpful to contradict the internal BS. "please take care & you are not alone I promise you that." Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Ditto to what so many others have said on this thread. I'm curious, though: how long have you been religion-free, and what were your reasons for leaving? These will impact how you feel. And all this takes time. I was severely depressed for the last 2-3 months of my "seeking" process (which turned out to be my deconversion process). Things immediately got better after I decided to leave for good in January, but I only started to feel like a normal autonomous human (rather than a sinful, depraved one) in the last couple months. I suspect it will be a couple years before I don't feel a twinge of the "I've done something terrible" feeling. Don't look back, look forward. See if you can immerse yourself in a non-Christian community of any kind, one where you'll find acceptance. There's a strong message in my head that my truth isn't good enough or reliable. It's like I have been so brainwashed that they're right and I'm wrong that I have automated internal barriers against my own truth. I can totally relate to those "automated internal barriers". Something inside of me implicitly assumes that people like Tim Keller and Gary Habermas and N. T. Wright must always be right. I'm not sure why... it's probably a vestige of spending a lifetime in a community where everyone was so *sure* of what they believed, and everything seemed to fit together. If I hadn't spent almost two years doing the research, I would likely be plagued with self-doubt even today. Knowing the counter-apologetics has given me something to fall back on when my emotions and self-doubt start to get the better of me. But even while doing the research, I was constantly asking myself, "Who am *I* to think I can figure this out, and do a better job of finding the truth than the men of the ages who have gone before -- all of them more intelligent, better scholars?" And who was I to question the God of the universe? What quelled me was that it wasn't "my" truth. I wasn't the one coming up with these arguments; I was finding the best arguments I could and pitting them against each other. And at the end of the day, nobody can ask you to believe something other than what you think is true. (oh, and the "who are you to question God?" is, of course, question-begging. Bonus: if your interlocutor isn't a Roman Catholic, you can throw this back at them) Not only that, but everything in my religion got relabeled. They tried to kill me and called it saving me. God slaughters infants and children, but he's loving and just. Wisdom is actually foolishness, and vice versa. I am evil and untrustworthy, but their Book full of fables is the Truth. This is crazy-making. I LOVE this paragraph. Love it. So much truth there. Dear TallMike: I don't know how to answer the religion-free question; After years away from church, I thought I was over it, but it turned out it had a death grip on me. So I fired the BibleGod, but that was only the beginning. I have so many many reasons for leaving, but ultimately, the thing that makes me say, "Never Ever Ever will I go back there again" is that they tried to destroy my ability to trust my own reason and my own heart. Their doctrine flagrantly violates common sense and human decency, and then on top of that they threatened me with eternal fiery punishment if I didn't go along with it. not gonna do it no more... I am so glad you are starting to feel like a normal autonomous human! I think that's a priceless experience. Thank you for sharing your similar struggles. It's so helpful to know that others have been through this too. I can SO relate to "Who are you to question God?". When I feel that one attacking me I try to remember that I'm questioning a God-concept, not a real God, and that this is one of the cult-like safeguards that they've used to keep me from questioning. Hmmm. Time to question some more, I say to myself. I have found a small community of questioners in my area, and of course, I have the fellowship of scads of Ex-Christian heathens on this website. >: ) Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Emotional trauma is hard to heal. For me time is the biggest helper. Unlike a lot of people hear I never chose to be fundie. I was forced into those churches so I never had to deal with not trusting my own thoughts. However, I can relate to the emotional damage fundies can inflict. Time and patience the biggest helpers... that and just having people to talk to who will listen and care for you. I envy that you have been able to keep your own mind, but of course I'm sorry that you've had to heal their damage in your life too. Thank you for the reminders about time and patience. I am pretty grateful for the people in my life who support me, including those on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I like to tell myself that: "Emotions are insanity. Yes of course we all feel them. Let them come and go naturally. But we don't have to trust them. We don't have to listen to them." I find these days my happiness comes from trying to be rational. It isn't always easy. I was brainwashed from an early age with the virtues of anger and revenge strait out of the Bible backed up by gawd almighty. But I am making progress slowly. I wish you the best and hope you get to where you want to be. Also welcome to ex-C. Dear MyMistake: Thank you for your best wishes. There is something very stabilizing about rational thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Wish I knew. I was a fundie and still struggle so much! I keep going on dates and finding out that I get weird even about kissing. There are two sides of me: the sex-positive who really really wants sex, and the shy, frigid who can't shake the idea that if I have sex outside of marriage I will really regret it and feel like a colossal failure for having let go and caved in after all I've invested in saving myself for the prince of a husband who was to have the honour of being my first. Going from fundamentalist to atheist has allowed me to live two different lives within the same lifetime. Unlike many atheists who were not raised in devout religion, I have the unique advantage of being able to know what it's like to REALLY and truly believe two diametrically opposed worldviews. But going from faith to deed is a whole other matter for me. I am one of those dreaded double-minded individuals the Bible warns about and that would really worry me if I could bring myself to care about what the Bible says anymore. I guess it also depends on what your issues are with your fundamentalism. Some things, like being pro-life, are grounded solidly in science and can easily be held by a non-believer. As to the rest... if you figure out the escape route, let me know. Dear Kruszer: I am so sorry Fundamentalist Christianity has caused you such turmoil. No one deserves that. It is kind of trippy to have been on both sides of it. But instead of thinking of yourself as double-minded, I think of it as being mature enough to look at things from many different viewpoints. A lot of people don't have that ability, or just won't see it. I suspect that everyone's escape route is different. Mine includes a whole lot of alone time, intentionally practicing self-acceptance, reading a lot of contrarian opinions about my former religion (including extimonies), and doing a lot of my own writing. Best wishes with your path, and thank you for sharing your struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I would like to suggest two things that most people overlook, info on PTSD and info on recovering from a cult. Depending on how deeply religious and/or any verbal/mental/physical abuse was involved, those subjects can be of some help. We all heal at different rates and we all have different depths of scarring from religion. If anyone ever feels like your life has no meaning and you are lost, talking to a therapist or help line can help, no one should have to feel alone. It always takes time to feel normal, don't ever make yourself feel bad because you have not healed at the speed of light, we are only human. Dear London: for me your words are very wise. I have definitely fought with a vehement voice that says, aren't you done with that yet? It has been an incredible struggle to begin to realize that we really are all affected differently, and we all heal differently, and that I not only have the right but the responsibility to heal at my pace. I definitely beat my self up over this, so I am taking your words to heart. Thank you for your suggestions about PTSD and Xtianity as a cult. I am definitely thinking of it that way, and I have been deconstructing it that way for my own self, so I can expose the cult-like tactics that have been used to imprison my mind and my heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Do you have any favorite writings by J. Krishnamurti that you could recommend? Two of the best books - "Freedom From the Known" and "The First and Last Freedom" The "Freedom From the Known" is very short. I read the whole thing in the mechanic's shop waiting for my car to be fixed. Also "Think on These Things". This is the first one I ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Do you have any favorite writings by J. Krishnamurti that you could recommend? Two of the best books - "Freedom From the Known" and "The First and Last Freedom" The "Freedom From the Known" is very short. I read the whole thing in the mechanic's shop waiting for my car to be fixed. Also "Think on These Things". This is the first one I ever read. I looked up Freedom From the Known on Amazon, it sounds like exactly where I am, and didn't know it. "Truth is a Pathless Land" - that is sure as hell my life right now. Thanks for the titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 As others have said, it takes lots of time and essentially, you have to reprogram your brain. I don't know if you like reading self-help type books, but Marlene Winell's "Leaving the Fold" was quite helpful to me. I do have Marlene's book and refer to it sometimes. I really appreciate the work she is doing. I am very focused on reprogramming my brain, and am doing a lot of writing, but it's like I'm feeling my way forward. It's not like a there's an instruction manual for this (is there?!). Do you have any specific processes or tactics that you use to do this? It's basically a learning of yourself. Christianity teaches that we are not to trust ourselves or our feelings and that everything must be ran by the Bible to see if it is a feeling, emotion or thought that we are allowed to have or not. I've had to learn that it's okay for me to "feel" or "think" anything, and then I search for the reason why it's happening inside of me. Obviously a person can't act on every feeling they have, but it will always point to some need somewhere that isn't being met or some type of "violation" of how you came "pre-wired" (one example: introvert or extrovert). Then you can find a healthy way to get that need met. In a nutshell, it's learning to acknowledge and eventually even accept your own humanity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pox Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I don't know if this will help, but I have a weird little hypothesis. The things we're told as children, before our reasoning brains are online, are stored differently from what we learn as adults, somewhere deep in the lizard-brain. And I think we can't really get rid of those things because our operating system works differently now. It's like an old disk drive that can be read but not erased, so as we find bad data, we just patch it, paper over it, edit it with our reasoning brains. In times of stress or emotion, sometimes those unreasoned child-lizard-brain thoughts sneak out past the edits and affect our thinking and feelings. And maybe those thoughts FEEL more real sometimes, because they're stored deeper, closer to the realm of instinct. So you feel guilty and have trouble understanding love, kruszer has trouble letting herself have sex, and some people still have a knee-jerk fear of a Hell they don't believe in. Those are just old patterns that got stored by the old operating system without using the reasoning brain. Even if this isn't an actual physiological thing, it may be a useful metaphor. You're now learning to better edit your thinking, evaluate some of your feelings, and edit the ones that don't fit with reality as you now understand it. You're building and perfecting your grown-up-brain software patches. I think, over time, those patches will get stronger as a matter of habit, and the old, unreasoned data will have less control of you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 As others have said, it takes lots of time and essentially, you have to reprogram your brain. I don't know if you like reading self-help type books, but Marlene Winell's "Leaving the Fold" was quite helpful to me. I do have Marlene's book and refer to it sometimes. I really appreciate the work she is doing. I am very focused on reprogramming my brain, and am doing a lot of writing, but it's like I'm feeling my way forward. It's not like a there's an instruction manual for this (is there?!). Do you have any specific processes or tactics that you use to do this? It's basically a learning of yourself. Christianity teaches that we are not to trust ourselves or our feelings and that everything must be ran by the Bible to see if it is a feeling, emotion or thought that we are allowed to have or not. I've had to learn that it's okay for me to "feel" or "think" anything, and then I search for the reason why it's happening inside of me. Obviously a person can't act on every feeling they have, but it will always point to some need somewhere that isn't being met or some type of "violation" of how you came "pre-wired" (one example: introvert or extrovert). Then you can find a healthy way to get that need met. In a nutshell, it's learning to acknowledge and eventually even accept your own humanity. wow Eugene - that seems DEAD ON to me, because that's exactly the kind of internal work I've been doing. At first it seemed like such a waste of time - "What, just feel?" But now I'm beginning to experience how powerful it is. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekMyWayHom Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I don't know if this will help, but I have a weird little hypothesis. The things we're told as children, before our reasoning brains are online, are stored differently from what we learn as adults, somewhere deep in the lizard-brain. And I think we can't really get rid of those things because our operating system works differently now. It's like an old disk drive that can be read but not erased, so as we find bad data, we just patch it, paper over it, edit it with our reasoning brains. In times of stress or emotion, sometimes those unreasoned child-lizard-brain thoughts sneak out past the edits and affect our thinking and feelings. And maybe those thoughts FEEL more real sometimes, because they're stored deeper, closer to the realm of instinct. So you feel guilty and have trouble understanding love, kruszer has trouble letting herself have sex, and some people still have a knee-jerk fear of a Hell they don't believe in. Those are just old patterns that got stored by the old operating system without using the reasoning brain. Even if this isn't an actual physiological thing, it may be a useful metaphor. You're now learning to better edit your thinking, evaluate some of your feelings, and edit the ones that don't fit with reality as you now understand it. You're building and perfecting your grown-up-brain software patches. I think, over time, those patches will get stronger as a matter of habit, and the old, unreasoned data will have less control of you. pox - I'm completely intrigued by this. Understanding my lizard brain a little has certainly helped me understand some things. And I have read that the things we learn when we are stressed or fearful get "seared" into our minds more deeply than other information, because our brains are hard-wired to protect us, so they hang on to information that might be a warning. I think you're on to something...thx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hi Seek! I've been out for almost longer, now, than I was in. Half a lifetime ago I deconverted. I know how horrible religion can be, having been a preacher's wife. What is awful though is that after leaving the technical faith itself, many remain mired in the dogma and rigid thinking that was impressed upon our subconscious minds at a time of vulnerability and need. When someone's a member of a truly oppressive group, one loses the ability to judge even the simplest, most basic human issues or even sift through what is and isn't proper science and history. That's the hard part to lose, that lack of empathy for yourself and others, that tendency to hold yourself and others to dignity- and humanity-destroying standards. Being a non-believer in a particular religion doesn't make anybody an intrinsically better person, especially if those dogmatic, rigid views are maintained post-deconversion. Atheists can still be dogmatic, and dogma is to be opposed in all its many wretched forms. What does make someone a better person is to learn. To learn how to discern what is and isn't objectively true. To learn others' stories and how they feel about those issues that mire you in muck and cruel oppression. To doubt and re-examine, most critically, every issue you thought was well settled when you were in the oppressive religion (whatever it was). Chances are everything you thought was true then is in reality way more nuanced and less certain than you thought. "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas," as they say. Education and really listening to others' stories and viewpoints can really help you to learn and grow. Be aware of what you hold to be obvious, self-evident truths, especially if those truths are held as inviolable by people who lie, abuse, and manipulate others. Blogs by feminists are a really great start, I think, like BlagHag, the Friendly Atheist, and others; books like How I Became An Atheist by John Loftus will give you plenty of things to think about. But don't seek to just find a new dogma. Seek to learn to think critically and with discernment, how to evaluate a claim, and how to spot the logical fallacies rife among the dogmatic mindset. Self-education in how to think critically really is the best way to crawl out of the muck and mire of dogma and oppression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denyoz Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I need to heal the damage, but I'm having a very hard time "owning" my own feeling reality, and giving it the credibility it needs to heal. I can say it verbally: I am filled with fear and mistrust; guilt is subliminal and constant; my concept of love is completely f*#!ed up - what else would it be when FC demands that I love a terrifying and abusive being and threatens me with eternal torment if I don't?; I have so much outrage; etc. But I'm having a very hard time accepting the truth of it in a way that feels real and genuine. There's a strong message in my head that my truth isn't good enough or reliable. It's like I have been so brainwashed that they're right and I'm wrong that I have automated internal barriers against my own truth. Do any of you have any ideas, information, techniques, practices, insight, etc. that might help me with this? Dear SeekMyWayHom. You are seeking your way home, right? Sounds like you are a deep person, not satisfied with materialism. The word "truth" appears many times in your opening post. You remind me of myself. So I will tell you what did it for me, after 5 years of severe depression. A small book that explains the nature of reality: matter, mind, spirit. How everything fits together, how it all works, what life is all about and where you fit in. This book is the best, and it's free: The Kybalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Oooh, Hermes the Thrice-Great! I've had an affection for some of that philosophy for years, especially the concept of "as above, so below." Fun stuff. Zen Buddhism is very relaxing as well; it lifts one out of the mindset of worrying about what other people do or don't do with regard to your great blind spot, whatever it might be, and focuses you on the present and current moment. This thread is an invaluable peek into how people can continue to suffer even years after rejecting the technical details of Christianity. You'll get used to Kruszer's manipulation of language eventually, but this one was a doozy: the idea that her theocratic position (making abortion flat-out illegal, as she's admitted elsewhere) is "scientific," which makes anybody disagreeing with her "non-scientific." Interesting, isn't it? The emotional pain that fundamentalism inflicts can be something positive that drives a deconvert to figure out and reject the filthy lies, and cruelty, and manipulation inherent in an extremely dogmatic position, or it can be something that pushes you back into that dogmatic mindset to suffer for years if not decades after your technical deconversion. That's the harm that this kind of theocratic, top-down rigidity can do to a human mind. The terrifying truth about almost all of these rigid mindsets is that a neutral path that violates the fewest rights is usually the right one. The all-or-nothing, black-or-white mindset that religion produces considers such a "middle path" utterly unacceptable. I really heartily encourage deconverts to carefully examine just what that internal "tape recorder" is saying about the hot-button issues of the day. It's way harder to let go of the things you thought were the absolute truth than it even is to let go of the religion itself. The religion is just a cloak over the programming, in so many ways. Walking away from the religion is just the beginning of healing. As long as you buy into one of these all-or-nothing, black-or-white ideologies, it's going to be that much harder to find the healing you need and truly become free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyengel Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I would like to say hello and tell you a little bit about what I have discovered through researching Satanism. I am not a Satanist, that's just not a part of me. But by researching it, it has helped me to look for things and view the world in a very different way. I am by no means confident in my world view as it is very very young. However, I wanted to note something interesting about the black mass. Some people use the black mass as a way to get rid of the ideas of Christianity. I am not recommending this is something you do. But as you said you are writing a lot, I'm wondering if putting some of it in a type of "ritual" that feels appropriate to you would be of help in letting go. This can be as simple as writing something down your pastor said to you that made you feel like a terrible person when you were little and you light a candle and burn it, and as it burns watch it die in your mind. Let it go as a part of you. Reading about the history of Christianity can be very helpful, but can also be technical and kind of confusing. It's better to view broader than this right now simply because Christianity is such a monster even it's history can be deceiving and very frustrating. If you look at religions, look up Horus and Mithra. Read the myths of these two previous gods and note the similarities to Jesus, if you have not already done so. This can be extremely helpful in realizing how much is simply copied from previous pantheons. I can speak from personal experience that it takes a very long time. Most people seem to have a specific moment or something that triggers and they question their beliefs. And while I have some of these moments it isn't that simple. I have fundamentalism so ingrained in my psychology that it is hard for me to leave the house sometimes because the world is an evil place, but leads me looking for the "Truth". I obsessively research religions. This for me has not been a good idea. This has also been over the past 10 years of my life. I am 25 and started researching Satanism when I was 16, then orthodox Christianity, then gnosticism, which landed me into another cult like thing, then Islam, then paganism, and now back to Satanism because it was the only thing that truely opposed Christianity. Problem is, when we research we need to be careful not to fall prey to the "there is only one truth" myth. If you feel that way after years of being out of a cult like religion that's different because you will probably know your way better than now. When we deconvert, we have no direction. We have to rebuild and find out who we want to be and what we want to be, and how we want to interact with our world. I have two book suggestions for you: One is a PTSD book called Waking the Tiger by Dr. Peter Levine The other is a free ebook called I, Universe by Darryl Sloan. Darryl is an awesome human being. I found Darryl on a Satanic site; he does not consider himself to be a Satanist but he is a truth seeker type and does not believe in God. His book is really about his personal leaving of Christianity. He's a very good writer and is also on youtube. I highly recommend any of his videos. http://darrylsloan.wordpress.com/ This is where you can download his ebook. http://www.youtube.com/user/darrylsloan?feature=g-user-u Look for more youtube people. Some people post their struggles with this stuff, I just know of Darryl. I could talk forever on this... and there are more books, but we've all given you plenty to read!! I would suggest starting with Darryl's ebook as it is very easy to read and very well written. It's not a bunch of complicated technicalities, just basic reasoning and information. I've rambled on long enough I am sure. If you'd like more help just PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I can speak from personal experience that it takes a very long time. Most people seem to have a specific moment or something that triggers and they question their beliefs. And while I have some of these moments it isn't that simple. I have fundamentalism so ingrained in my psychology that it is hard for me to leave the house sometimes because the world is an evil place, but leads me looking for the "Truth". I obsessively research religions. This for me has not been a good idea. This has also been over the past 10 years of my life. I am 25 and started researching Satanism when I was 16, then orthodox Christianity, then gnosticism, which landed me into another cult like thing, then Islam, then paganism, and now back to Satanism because it was the only thing that truely opposed Christianity. Problem is, when we research we need to be careful not to fall prey to the "there is only one truth" myth. If you feel that way after years of being out of a cult like religion that's different because you will probably know your way better than now. When we deconvert, we have no direction. We have to rebuild and find out who we want to be and what we want to be, and how we want to interact with our world. Thanks Bloodyengel and welcome to Ex-C! That was a good post, and I relate a lot to it. No one can say what someone else has to do to remove the fundamentalism that is so deeply ingrained as a thought pattern, but there is no question in my mind that it doesn't happen overnight. If you were indoctrinated as a child it takes years. You might have thrown the Christian doctrine out, but total freedom is elusive. This is an individual journey and only you can map it out. I didn't specifically study Satanism, but I studied other religions/philosophies and my trap was that I always felt I had to totally immerse myself in them so I could get the spirit of it and give the experience a fair shot. This did result in a waste of time and money, in some cases. There is also this idea that there is "one truth," and this comes straight out of Christianity. If you can just get hold of this One Truth, all your problems will be solved. Too bad life doesn't work like that, and Christianity is totally to blame for entrenching that bogus concept in our thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyengel Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Thanks Bloodyengel and welcome to Ex-C! That was a good post, and I relate a lot to it. No one can say what someone else has to do to remove the fundamentalism that is so deeply ingrained as a thought pattern, but there is no question in my mind that it doesn't happen overnight. If you were indoctrinated as a child it takes years. You might have thrown the Christian doctrine out, but total freedom is elusive. This is an individual journey and only you can map it out. I didn't specifically study Satanism, but I studied other religions/philosophies and my trap was that I always felt I had to totally immerse myself in them so I could get the spirit of it and give the experience a fair shot. This did result in a waste of time and money, in some cases. There is also this idea that there is "one truth," and this comes straight out of Christianity. If you can just get hold of this One Truth, all your problems will be solved. Too bad life doesn't work like that, and Christianity is totally to blame for entrenching that bogus concept in our thinking. Yes!!!! I immersed myself in people's opinions about their religion more than the doctrine itself. So for Islam I looked at why they wear the hijab, what American muslims feel about it, how they feel about it in the middle east. How to wear one, songs about it, what I liked about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sissi Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Dear SeekMywayHom, I've been with fundamentalist the last years of my christian life, with a terrifing fear of going hell if I started having my own thoughts. It was 6 years ago and then I tried to find a compromise, returning for example in catholicism, my childhood denomination. But there was all the time a reference of the bible and Jesus and I was the most upset against him, because this man in the bible promised to be the Good Shepherd and it never has been the case, but only an illusion. With the time and after a lot of anger and conviction that the bible was so illogical, dangerous and exactly with the same characteristics of a cult, step by step I could go out of all this fear that was very powerful. I think the biggest abuse is FEAR when you were surrounded of fundamentalists - you must understand it is MIND CONTROL and something that these people with their teaching put into your head. It is good you go to a therapist but also be aware the time plays a lot as well...you are going to deconvert day after day, sometimes it can be so destabilzing that you may be tempted to return with them or other christians - it is a long process according the years you have been in christianity. I've been 20 years with born again christians and I thought it should be easy to go out 6 years ago. But spirituality and faith have been so important for me all my life it is like if I was loosing a part of mine and despite I tried to find a compromise after I left fundamentalist and just be a "religious person" going to mass, I realized and it was the most difficult that I had to cut all ties with religion because it was referring all the time to Jesus who is now for me a liar...Today I have to find a new spirituality that is mine. But being free is the most important. It can be a trauma to think that all your friendships in christianity were somewhere fake due to religion and brainwashing were the only interests between us. I really loved friends and it is sometimes painful to realize that we will never be friends again as soon they are in christianity because they are not respectful and open minded toward those have different point view of life or their only aim will be to convert you again. You simply cannot have normal friendship as soon they are under mind control. So my dear, the time has a big importance of deconversion and leting all fear leaving you. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 It isn't always a horrible thing if one's friends abandon one after a deconversion. Like drug addicts sometimes have to stop seeing their old friends after they get clean, you know? I'm kind of glad I lost all my old friends from church. Nobody really called me or reached out to me aside from my then-husband who took it to bizarre lengths, so when I got dropped like a hot rock it just had the effect of keeping me out of that whole lifestyle. It hurt, but in the end it worked out better that way, I think. I wouldn't have been able to spend time with them, I don't think; I'd always have wondered if they were just angling to reconvert me. For once the self-absorption of my fellow fundies worked to my favor. We go mad in herds, but we wake up one by one, to paraphrase an old quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyengel Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 It isn't always a horrible thing if one's friends abandon one after a deconversion. Like drug addicts sometimes have to stop seeing their old friends after they get clean, you know? I'm kind of glad I lost all my old friends from church. Nobody really called me or reached out to me aside from my then-husband who took it to bizarre lengths, so when I got dropped like a hot rock it just had the effect of keeping me out of that whole lifestyle. It hurt, but in the end it worked out better that way, I think. I wouldn't have been able to spend time with them, I don't think; I'd always have wondered if they were just angling to reconvert me. For once the self-absorption of my fellow fundies worked to my favor. We go mad in herds, but we wake up one by one, to paraphrase an old quote. I really agree with this. It's quite hard to have xian friends after you say "I'm not a xian anymore." You're always on the defensive, or like me you may hide certain books they'd find offensive after another xian friend freaked out about the same book. They care about you they say, in my opinion they don't care enough to look at themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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