How Do You Heal Deep Emotional Pain From Fundy-Ism?

[SeekMyWayHom]

Hi Seek! I've been out for almost longer, now, than I was in. Half a lifetime ago I deconverted. I know how horrible religion can be, having been a preacher's wife. What is awful though is that after leaving the technical faith itself, many remain mired in the dogma and rigid thinking that was impressed upon our subconscious minds at a time of vulnerability and need. When someone's a member of a truly oppressive group, one loses the ability to judge even the simplest, most basic human issues or even sift through what is and isn't proper science and history. That's the hard part to lose, that lack of empathy for yourself and others, that tendency to hold yourself and others to dignity- and humanity-destroying standards. Being a non-believer in a particular religion doesn't make anybody an intrinsically better person, especially if those dogmatic, rigid views are maintained post-deconversion. Atheists can still be dogmatic, and dogma is to be opposed in all its many wretched forms.

 

What does make someone a better person is to learn. To learn how to discern what is and isn't objectively true. To learn others' stories and how they feel about those issues that mire you in muck and cruel oppression. To doubt and re-examine, most critically, every issue you thought was well settled when you were in the oppressive religion (whatever it was). Chances are everything you thought was true then is in reality way more nuanced and less certain than you thought. "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas," as they say. Education and really listening to others' stories and viewpoints can really help you to learn and grow. Be aware of what you hold to be obvious, self-evident truths, especially if those truths are held as inviolable by people who lie, abuse, and manipulate others. Blogs by feminists are a really great start, I think, like BlagHag, the Friendly Atheist, and others; books like How I Became An Atheist by John Loftus will give you plenty of things to think about. But don't seek to just find a new dogma. Seek to learn to think critically and with discernment, how to evaluate a claim, and how to spot the logical fallacies rife among the dogmatic mindset.

 

Self-education in how to think critically really is the best way to crawl out of the muck and mire of dogma and oppression.

 

Akheia – this is so thorough and articulate; I can relate to almost everything you’ve said. I can’t imagine being a preacher’s wife and walking away – what a mess. Fundamentalist Christianity’s attempt to destroy all self-trust – trust in my own reason and human decency – is one of the worst things I’ve ever experienced. It seems like the unpardonable sin to me! It’s hell on wheels to crawl out of. And I’ve become pretty hostile to dogma and certainty of all sorts since leaving. I feel very deconstructed right now; it feels like I’ve become so uncertain of almost everything. What’s odd is that this is grounding, because at least it’s telling the truth now.

Thanks for the reading suggestions. I tackled Loftus early in my process, and I really appreciated his careful thought and thorough treatment of Christianity, not to mention his lack of dogma. Do you know of any reading on learning to think critically (something not too scholarly)? I know I would find that very useful. Thank you for your post.

[SeekMyWayHom]

I need to heal the damage, but I'm having a very hard time "owning" my own feeling reality, and giving it the credibility it needs to heal. I can say it verbally: I am filled with fear and mistrust; guilt is subliminal and constant; my concept of love is completely f*#!ed up - what else would it be when FC demands that I love a terrifying and abusive being and threatens me with eternal torment if I don't?; I have so much outrage; etc. But I'm having a very hard time accepting the truth of it in a way that feels real and genuine.

 

There's a strong message in my head that my truth isn't good enough or reliable. It's like I have been so brainwashed that they're right and I'm wrong that I have automated internal barriers against my own truth.

 

Do any of you have any ideas, information, techniques, practices, insight, etc. that might help me with this?

 

Dear SeekMyWayHom. You are seeking your way home, right? Sounds like you are a deep person, not satisfied with materialism. The word "truth" appears many times in your opening post.

 

You remind me of myself. So I will tell you what did it for me, after 5 years of severe depression. A small book that explains the nature of reality: matter, mind, spirit. How everything fits together, how it all works, what life is all about and where you fit in. This book is the best, and it's free: The Kybalion

Thanks for the download, Denyoz. I probably would describe myself as a deep person, although with a little bit of humor, just because it's needed. I've always had that round-peg-in-square-hole feeling, like if I talked about what really mattered to me people would look at me funny. In the last year I've been very fortunate to find a group of like-minded people to hang out with.

omg - 5 years of severe depression - that's horrendous. I'm glad you're better. Thanks for replying.

[RintrahRoars]

Hi, there is a certain meditation for emotional awareness that I've found helpful in reconnecting to my feelings. I really recommend you try it at least once This site also has a lot of insightful articles. I hope you like.

 

http://www.helpguide.org/toolkit/emotional_health_audio.htm

[SeekMyWayHom]

 

I really heartily encourage deconverts to carefully examine just what that internal "tape recorder" is saying about the hot-button issues of the day. It's way harder to let go of the things you thought were the absolute truth than it even is to let go of the religion itself. The religion is just a cloak over the programming, in so many ways. Walking away from the religion is just the beginning of healing. As long as you buy into one of these all-or-nothing, black-or-white ideologies, it's going to be that much harder to find the healing you need and truly become free.

"Walking away from healing is just the beginning of healing." I had no idea how true this is, but it's as you said: the lies and manipulation have driven me to examine and tear apart in detail all of the ways I was indoctrinated. It's taking me countless hours of reading, writing, thinking, and internal exploration, and I'm nowhere near done. I kept saying, Why are you doing this? Do you really have to spend this much time on this? But now it's starting to pay off. I can see the bulwark cracking, which is a damn miracle if ever there was one. It's worth it to be free.

[Suzy]

I don't know if this will help, but I have a weird little hypothesis. The things we're told as children, before our reasoning brains are online, are stored differently from what we learn as adults, somewhere deep in the lizard-brain. And I think we can't really get rid of those things because our operating system works differently now. It's like an old disk drive that can be read but not erased, so as we find bad data, we just patch it, paper over it, edit it with our reasoning brains. In times of stress or emotion, sometimes those unreasoned child-lizard-brain thoughts sneak out past the edits and affect our thinking and feelings. And maybe those thoughts FEEL more real sometimes, because they're stored deeper, closer to the realm of instinct. So you feel guilty and have trouble understanding love, kruszer has trouble letting herself have sex, and some people still have a knee-jerk fear of a Hell they don't believe in. Those are just old patterns that got stored by the old operating system without using the reasoning brain.

 

Even if this isn't an actual physiological thing, it may be a useful metaphor. You're now learning to better edit your thinking, evaluate some of your feelings, and edit the ones that don't fit with reality as you now understand it. You're building and perfecting your grown-up-brain software patches. I think, over time, those patches will get stronger as a matter of habit, and the old, unreasoned data will have less control of you.

 

I like this hypothesis.

 

When I was a Xtian for over 20 years, I had this real fear of Hell and real belief in everything they taught me in the church. And this is what kept me in for so long. Yet, when I finally came out of it, I had it relatively easy compared to many people here who still struggle. I do not have any fear of Hell any more and I do not fear what if Christianity is true, because it just isn't. I thought I am just lucky that I had it easier than many other people here, but your hypothesis made me think about it:

 

Many people here grew up in Xtianity from an early childhood or even birth and many of you (Americans in particular) live in a very religious society. I got into Xtianity at 12. Before that I lived in a completely non-religious (sometimes even anti-religious) family and in a mainly non-religious society (Eastern Europe). I was still a child when I converted, but maybe my unearsable "hard disk" was already written by then. So maybe this is the reason why I find it easier to get rid of the fear any everything than others. I don't know. Just an idea.

[Sissi]

It isn't always a horrible thing if one's friends abandon one after a deconversion. Like drug addicts sometimes have to stop seeing their old friends after they get clean, you know? I'm kind of glad I lost all my old friends from church. Nobody really called me or reached out to me aside from my then-husband who took it to bizarre lengths, so when I got dropped like a hot rock it just had the effect of keeping me out of that whole lifestyle. It hurt, but in the end it worked out better that way, I think. I wouldn't have been able to spend time with them, I don't think; I'd always have wondered if they were just angling to reconvert me.

 

For once the self-absorption of my fellow fundies worked to my favor. We go mad in herds, but we wake up one by one, to paraphrase an old quote.

 

No it isnt and in fact regarding myself I needed to cut all ties with them because I couldnt accept their manipulation and trying to convert me again. I was allergic !...

 

But on another hand after I cut all ties there is another problem : the doctrine is still in your head, you wake up with the doctrine and it follows you all the day.

You feel guilty as soon as you start having your own opinions. In the beggining I remember I said myself " can I believe that ? do I sin against god ?"you thoughts

and you head are smashed in pieces, I felt myself strange for a while with a double personality...it was a very strange feeling...

 

I remember I shared with another woman in my country that was in an evangelical cult for 17 years and she wrote a book about after leaving a cult. Because you can find

some books telling what a cult is, etc...but few are written explaining the challenge and struggle once you left a cult and a group.

[Akheia]

Hi again Seek My heart really is with you as you struggle with these after-effects. But there is definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not what one would call an overly introspective person anymore, I don't reckon; I did my time in therapy and meditation and I think I've figured my shit out over the years. I think the time I spent on introspection was time well spent--and it's not over yet, never will be, just it isn't something I spend a lot of time on anymore. To some extent introspection and self-examination are zero-sum games: the time you spend on this thing, you can't spend on that thing. Nor should it consume us once we get most of it under control. We're humans, and we're best suited to getting out there and *living* and enjoying life. But you'll find that a little time spent now and then on introspection will be time well spent in the end. For me, it was time I spent in prepwork and it paid me dividends of not being a dumbass still locked in my old mindset, just without the cloak of Christianity.

 

If you want to learn about logical fallacies, Iron Chariots is a really awesome clearinghouse of the worst of the Christian offenders as well as responses to them (also it has a hilarious breakdown of that "Way of the Master" bullshit Kirk Cameron is peddling lately). Pagan Origins of the Christian Myth is also a really nice site. I wish it were more filled-out, but what it has is just staggering.

 

Good luck, and we're right here for you as you journey

[SeekMyWayHom]

I would like to say hello and tell you a little bit about what I have discovered through researching Satanism. I am not a Satanist, that's just not a part of me. But by researching it, it has helped me to look for things and view the world in a very different way. I am by no means confident in my world view as it is very very young.

 

However, I wanted to note something interesting about the black mass. Some people use the black mass as a way to get rid of the ideas of Christianity. I am not recommending this is something you do. But as you said you are writing a lot, I'm wondering if putting some of it in a type of "ritual" that feels appropriate to you would be of help in letting go.

 

This can be as simple as writing something down your pastor said to you that made you feel like a terrible person when you were little and you light a candle and burn it, and as it burns watch it die in your mind. Let it go as a part of you.

 

Reading about the history of Christianity can be very helpful, but can also be technical and kind of confusing. It's better to view broader than this right now simply because Christianity is such a monster even it's history can be deceiving and very frustrating.

 

If you look at religions, look up Horus and Mithra. Read the myths of these two previous gods and note the similarities to Jesus, if you have not already done so. This can be extremely helpful in realizing how much is simply copied from previous pantheons.

 

I can speak from personal experience that it takes a very long time. Most people seem to have a specific moment or something that triggers and they question their beliefs. And while I have some of these moments it isn't that simple. I have fundamentalism so ingrained in my psychology that it is hard for me to leave the house sometimes because the world is an evil place, but leads me looking for the "Truth". I obsessively research religions. This for me has not been a good idea. This has also been over the past 10 years of my life. I am 25 and started researching Satanism when I was 16, then orthodox Christianity, then gnosticism, which landed me into another cult like thing, then Islam, then paganism, and now back to Satanism because it was the only thing that truely opposed Christianity. Problem is, when we research we need to be careful not to fall prey to the "there is only one truth" myth. If you feel that way after years of being out of a cult like religion that's different because you will probably know your way better than now.

 

When we deconvert, we have no direction. We have to rebuild and find out who we want to be and what we want to be, and how we want to interact with our world.

 

I have two book suggestions for you:

 

One is a PTSD book called Waking the Tiger by Dr. Peter Levine

 

The other is a free ebook called I, Universe by Darryl Sloan.

 

Darryl is an awesome human being. I found Darryl on a Satanic site; he does not consider himself to be a Satanist but he is a truth seeker type and does not believe in God. His book is really about his personal leaving of Christianity. He's a very good writer and is also on youtube. I highly recommend any of his videos.

 

http://darrylsloan.wordpress.com/

 

This is where you can download his ebook.

 

http://www.youtube.c...eature=g-user-u

 

Look for more youtube people. Some people post their struggles with this stuff, I just know of Darryl.

 

I could talk forever on this... and there are more books, but we've all given you plenty to read!!

 

I would suggest starting with Darryl's ebook as it is very easy to read and very well written. It's not a bunch of complicated technicalities, just basic reasoning and information.

 

I've rambled on long enough I am sure. If you'd like more help just PM.

I like your ritual idea – I think it could be very powerful for me. The writing-it-down-and-burning-it routine has always seemed shallow and hokey to me, but I actually did this very thing just this weekend, with some of my old beliefs that are starting to genuinely come apart, and it was so freeing. I am going to keep your idea and use it repeatedly.

 

I will check out Horus and Mithra in more detail – I’ve only read bits and pieces.

 

I certainly understand about this process taking a long time and having it deeply ingrained; it’s maddening. Thank you for sharing your experience, and thanks for the reading suggestions.

[SeekMyWayHom]

Dear SeekMywayHom,

 

I've been with fundamentalist the last years of my christian life, with a terrifing fear of going hell if I started having my own thoughts. It was 6 years ago and then

I tried to find a compromise, returning for example in catholicism, my childhood denomination. But there was all the time a reference of the bible and Jesus and I

was the most upset against him, because this man in the bible promised to be the Good Shepherd and it never has been the case, but only an illusion.

With the time and after a lot of anger and conviction that the bible was so illogical, dangerous and exactly with the same characteristics of a cult, step by step I could

go out of all this fear that was very powerful. I think the biggest abuse is FEAR when you were surrounded of fundamentalists - you must understand it is MIND CONTROL

and something that these people with their teaching put into your head.

It is good you go to a therapist but also be aware the time plays a lot as well...you are going to deconvert day after day, sometimes it can be so destabilzing that you may

be tempted to return with them or other christians - it is a long process according the years you have been in christianity. I've been 20 years with born again christians and

I thought it should be easy to go out 6 years ago. But spirituality and faith have been so important for me all my life it is like if I was loosing a part of mine and despite I tried

to find a compromise after I left fundamentalist and just be a "religious person" going to mass, I realized and it was the most difficult that I had to cut all ties with religion because

it was referring all the time to Jesus who is now for me a liar...Today I have to find a new spirituality that is mine. But being free is the most important. It can be a trauma to think

that all your friendships in christianity were somewhere fake due to religion and brainwashing were the only interests between us. I really loved friends and it is sometimes painful

to realize that we will never be friends again as soon they are in christianity because they are not respectful and open minded toward those have different point view of life or

their only aim will be to convert you again. You simply cannot have normal friendship as soon they are under mind control.

 

So my dear, the time has a big importance of deconversion and leting all fear leaving you.

 

All the best.

Dear Sissi - I am so sorry that you’ve experienced so much fear, and for the pain of losing your friends. I really hope you find a spirituality where you are nourished.

 

Deconverting is definitely very destabilizing; I’ve had to get comfortable with my discomfort, so to speak. I find myself embracing the uncertainty somewhat, though, because I’ve become so skeptical about certainty. It also means I have the freedom to question, and I cannot agree with you more that being free is most important. Fundamentalist Christianity is ABSOLUTELY mind control. I have been deconstructing my religion as a method of mind control, and it’s been very helpful. I also think they should be ashamed of their terrorist tactics, filling people with fear to get them to believe. I have a deeper and deeper spite for the doctrine of hell, since it’s their main fear tactic. To hell with hell!

 

Best wishes with your search.

[SeekMyWayHom]

Hi, there is a certain meditation for emotional awareness that I've found helpful in reconnecting to my feelings. I really recommend you try it at least once This site also has a lot of insightful articles. I hope you like.

 

http://www.helpguide...ealth_audio.htm

Dear Rintrah - thanks for the link. I haven't tried the meditation yet, but I read through the guidelines; it looks like this might be really helpful.

[SeekMyWayHom]

Hi again Seek My heart really is with you as you struggle with these after-effects. But there is definitely a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not what one would call an overly introspective person anymore, I don't reckon; I did my time in therapy and meditation and I think I've figured my shit out over the years. I think the time I spent on introspection was time well spent--and it's not over yet, never will be, just it isn't something I spend a lot of time on anymore. To some extent introspection and self-examination are zero-sum games: the time you spend on this thing, you can't spend on that thing. Nor should it consume us once we get most of it under control. We're humans, and we're best suited to getting out there and *living* and enjoying life. But you'll find that a little time spent now and then on introspection will be time well spent in the end. For me, it was time I spent in prepwork and it paid me dividends of not being a dumbass still locked in my old mindset, just without the cloak of Christianity.

 

If you want to learn about logical fallacies, Iron Chariots is a really awesome clearinghouse of the worst of the Christian offenders as well as responses to them (also it has a hilarious breakdown of that "Way of the Master" bullshit Kirk Cameron is peddling lately). Pagan Origins of the Christian Myth is also a really nice site. I wish it were more filled-out, but what it has is just staggering.

 

Good luck, and we're right here for you as you journey

Akheia -

Thank you for your empathy!

 

I’ve learned, and it’s been a hard-won lesson since I definitely feel like a minority in my culture, that my world happens Inside, and if that’s not straight, nothing is straight. I fought with spending this much time thinking, meditating, feeling, & writing. Waste of time, I kept saying to myself. But I got nowhere by ignoring it, and now that I’m doing it, I’m beginning to see real, fundamental change. So it seems clear that for this piece of my life, this is my task. I still go out and do stuff with friends a lot, but you’re right: some things just don’t get done. Still, the sheer wonder and novelty of being able to truly connect with my Self is worth it, and it keeps out any feeling of being overwhelmed. Here’s to the end of the tunnel; I have no doubt it’s there.

 

O-o-o-o-o – the Pagan Origins website is exactly what I’ve been looking for! And I’m bookmarking the Iron Chariots site (what a weird-ass story...I guess God is omnipotent except for iron chariots. Oh, and hell.) Thanks for your insight and reading suggestions. Still can’t say enough about how reassuring it is to have the support of others on this site who get it.

[Akheia]

Glad to help and glad to hear you're finding your path

 

I wish those two sites had existed back when I deconverted. Most of their content would go on my "Shit I Wish I'd Known About" list.

[MultifariousBirdLady]

Hi, there is a certain meditation for emotional awareness that I've found helpful in reconnecting to my feelings. I really recommend you try it at least once This site also has a lot of insightful articles. I hope you like.

 

http://www.helpguide...ealth_audio.htm

This looks really good!

I've been getting triggered by a few very specific things lately* and I recall learning a technique that sounds similar to this a long time ago. Time to practice that again, I think.

 

* On another forum I encountered a repeat of a fairly harrowing situation that happened long ago when I was attending a fundamentalist leadership training camp (one of those college group ones). It was surprisingly triggering, and I think now the older situation is precisely why. (It has helped a lot just to figure that out.)

 

If you want to learn about logical fallacies, Iron Chariots is a really awesome clearinghouse of the worst of the Christian offenders as well as responses to them (also it has a hilarious breakdown of that "Way of the Master" bullshit Kirk Cameron is peddling lately). Pagan Origins of the Christian Myth is also a really nice site. I wish it were more filled-out, but what it has is just staggering.

Thank you for these links, too!

 

I’ve learned, and it’s been a hard-won lesson since I definitely feel like a minority in my culture, that my world happens Inside, and if that’s not straight, nothing is straight. I fought with spending this much time thinking, meditating, feeling, & writing. Waste of time, I kept saying to myself. But I got nowhere by ignoring it, and now that I’m doing it, I’m beginning to see real, fundamental change.

SMWH,

Doing that "inner work" is what really helped me to get through that stuff years ago. Keep at it. It isn't at all a waste of time. When you write things out, especially, that helps your thoughts and feelings to become clear.

I'll be doing something similar with the situation that came up recently. It is therapeutic to pull out the various parts and analyze them.

 

Best wishes to you!

[silentknight]

Another good site to learn about fallacies that don't necessarily directly relate to religion, but all of life, is http://youarenotsosmart.com/all-posts/