What Is The Point Of A Sacrifice?

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

McDaddy has a point. I'll say, the Bible makes about as much sense as End Does, perhaps there's a reason for that? I don't think End is crazy, I think he's just trying really really hard to believe crazy things, to the point that nothing he says makes any sense.

 

I'm only moderately crazy BD....please answer my question.....what is humanities purpose and how do you know?

I posted that as you were posting your post. I didn't ignore it. I actually am crazy, I'm mentally ill, bipolar makes me think irrationally and illogically at both extremes sometimes. Especially when manic. Yet still, I manage to think more rationally and logically than what you demonstrate in your posts, when I'm at my worst, and am hospitalized because of it. Think about it End, it has nothing to do with being crazy, it has to do with your deliberately trying to keep your indoctrination, and make your beliefs sound stronger to you than you know they are. You are in denial. That is what I'm saying. I'm pretty sure of it.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Actually I don't undstand why this is so difficult. Even without a symbolic Christ, it really appears that non-believers have faith in morality. Christianity is just picking a story that fits IMO just as picking science or some other story.

What does it even mean to have "faith in morality"? Why must you be so damn vague?

 

Faith, by the definition you give it, has no meaning. The grammatical usage of the word "in", in the way you use it, also has no meaning. Either have been stretched beyond a capacity for a definite meaning. That is depressing to anyone like me, who loves languages and loves to study them. Even without that love, empty words are depressing. See, I can be vague too, but even when I'm vague, there is more meaning in what I say. Because at least the words themselves have meaning. I try not being so vague though, because its helpful for having a meaningful discussion with other human beings.

 

I have morality because of evolution. My species decided long ago, that constantly fistfighting like Chimpanzees can be a bad thing. So we stopped. We evolved reason, which aided our morality. Instead of just being empathetic when we aren't disadvantaged like a chimpanzee (if you drop a pencil, they'll pick it up for you, if you drop food, they'll eat it for you, especially if you are weak and starving). Morality has a biological advantage towards the survival of our species.

 

Now tell me, why do chimpanzees demonstrate a sense of morality without faith in a God, or any signs of religion?

 

Science is a large set of observances. It isn't a story. Christianity isn't a story, it is stories, and it really doesn't fit the picture. As for morality, christianity is, according to biblical stories, against having a consistent morality.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Now can we please get back on topic here End3? Pretty please with sugar on top? This is about sacrifice, why its necessary. Why must God put up arbitrary laws on sacrifice, just to allow himself to forgive? Why does he act like he is powerless when he makes up the rules?

[Guest end3]

Truthfully, BD has no purpose on Ex-C (unless you meant somewhere else, I was never in your house). Or are you just being vague, and using hyperinflated, grandiose, narcissistic statements made by some teacher/preacher who made them before you? None of this makes any sense. But you're in luck, the mere fact that I was a christian once, means that I at least am able to know what you mean, because I once used your arguements.

 

I'm not that difficult to understand. My question is this: What is the purpose of humanity on earth....and by what evidence do you make your call, if any?

 

 

There is no grand plan, the Bible never mentions such. As for that grandplan, Rachel and McDaddy and others already hammered it out of the water, God made it. And restating it doesn't change the fact that it has little to do with anything, and doesn't justify the sacrifices. That being said, I'll continue:

No, I think it does....supernatural war....to know God thru Christ. Sounds much like a plan to me.

 

 

What do the humanities have to do with the price of rice in China? They have whatever point and purpose you want them to have. For me, they're a means of selfexpression, and simply a way to waste time having fun instead of being bored. For some, its a way of life, and or a means of making money. God has nothing to do with it unless you wanted him in there.

I gathering you say it's all kind of a crap shoot....random and arbitrary. Please corrrect me if I am misreading.

 

 

As for morality, your dancing around this.

the path to moral perfection seems rather constant over time BD. She mentioned a constant. That is what came to my mind.

 

 

You are vague and render the meaning meaningless. And that isn't the sacrifice she was talking about. As for me, I don't sacrifice goats. I sacrifice my time to make money to support myself, I make lots of sacrifices, but lets stay on topic. We're talking animal sacrifice here. Stop trying to lead us away on your tangents and vagueries and answer her questions like I did. She is talking specifically about animal sacrifice and the sacrifice of Jesus used as payment of our sins, one belief having arisen from the other. That death is the payment of sins, even very small ones, like a person who didn't know better eating of fruit they were forbidden from eating, and so God went all crazy and punished not just the naive person, but every last one of their descendants for that small act of disobedience.

 

You are looking for me to explain the differences between the Law and Grace? Let me find the verses in Hebrews.....paraphrasing..."a better sacrifice".

[MerryG]

Actually I don't undstand why this is so difficult. Even without a symbolic Christ, it really appears that non-believers have faith in morality. Christianity is just picking a story that fits IMO just as picking science or some other story.

 

C'mon. That's about as off-topic as it gets. How about answering the questions proposed earlier specifically about animal sacrifice and people piggybacking on the supposed sacrifice of Jesus?

 

Also, while it's certainly possible to misuse science and treat it as a "story," real science is a discipline that seeks evidence through experimentation. Hardly on the same level as saying, "Everything in that book is true just because somebody says so."

[Thought2Much]

I'm not that difficult to understand.

 

Actually, yes, you are much of the time. What you say has little glimmers of almost-logic, but they often don't really connect to each other or whatever topic is actually being discussed.

 

My question is this: What is the purpose of humanity on earth....and by what evidence do you make your call, if any?

 

Humanity has no purpose. Full stop.

 

No, I think it does....supernatural war....to know God thru Christ. Sounds much like a plan to me.

 

Oh wait, you're serious! Let me laugh even harder!

 

The idea that God, who is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient, needs to fight a "supernatural war" that somehow involves us and anything else that is part of the universe that he created is outright laughable. Do you not even realize how silly and childish that idea sounds? Does that sort of thing not sound silly when you say it in your own head?

 

You are looking for me to explain the differences between the Law and Grace? Let me find the verses in Hebrews.....paraphrasing..."a better sacrifice".

 

Oh. The Bible said something about sacrifice. THEN IT MUST BE TRUE!

[Guest end3]

What does it even mean to have "faith in morality"? Why must you be so damn vague?

It's not intentional...apologies if it is frustrating you. I mean that people practice morality and choose to do so despite having the story of Christ.....i.e. they willilfully make choices to pick morality.

 

 

Faith, by the definition you give it, has no meaning. The grammatical usage of the word "in", in the way you use it, also has no meaning. Either have been stretched beyond a capacity for a definite meaning. That is depressing to anyone like me, who loves languages and loves to study them. Even without that love, empty words are depressing. See, I can be vague too, but even when I'm vague, there is more meaning in what I say. Because at least the words themselves have meaning. I try not being so vague though, because its helpful for having a meaningful discussion with other human beings.

Again, sorry for the frustration. I was a high school dropout. I despise reading and writing. Please sacrifice for me that we might communicate. Faith does have a meaning IMO as you use it because there is faith in the need for survival/peace/freedom/ what have you. There is meaning being your choices. You just don't choose the Christian meaning.

 

I have morality because of evolution. My species decided long ago, that constantly fistfighting like Chimpanzees can be a bad thing. So we stopped. We evolved reason, which aided our morality. Instead of just being empathetic when we aren't disadvantaged like a chimpanzee (if you drop a pencil, they'll pick it up for you, if you drop food, they'll eat it for you, especially if you are weak and starving). Morality has a biological advantage towards the survival of our species.

 

Evolution doesn't force you to be moral.

 

 

 

Now tell me, why do chimpanzees demonstrate a sense of morality without faith in a God, or any signs of religion?

 

This is not going to be to your satisfaction obviously, but what I ask is how is life, how is earth, all at an equilibrium with itself. Yes, I am sure there is scientific speculation, and I don't have a good answer for the monkey question.....but my belief that a creator has endowed the creation with the his qualities outweighs my belief that evolution gave monkeys a pinch of morality. Fair enough?

[Guest end3]

I'm not that difficult to understand.

 

Actually, yes, you are much of the time. What you say has little glimmers of almost-logic, but they often don't really connect to each other or whatever topic is actually being discussed.

 

My question is this: What is the purpose of humanity on earth....and by what evidence do you make your call, if any?

 

Humanity has no purpose. Full stop.

 

No, I think it does....supernatural war....to know God thru Christ. Sounds much like a plan to me.

 

Oh wait, you're serious! Let me laugh even harder!

 

The idea that God, who is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient, needs to fight a "supernatural war" that somehow involves us and anything else that is part of the universe that he created is outright laughable. Do you not even realize how silly and childish that idea sounds? Does that sort of thing not sound silly when you say it in your own head?

 

You are looking for me to explain the differences between the Law and Grace? Let me find the verses in Hebrews.....paraphrasing..."a better sacrifice".

 

Oh. The Bible said something about sacrifice. THEN IT MUST BE TRUE!

 

You don't have to get all pissy.....just a little sacrifice on your behalf that we might coexist in harmony. Christianity is just advocating sacrifice with a Cause behind it. I enjoy having a Cause over "humanity has no meaning". That ok with you?

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I'm not that difficult to understand. My question is this: What is the purpose of humanity on earth....and by what evidence do you make your call, if any?

You'd be suprised by the fact, but if you weren't talking to former christians, you'd be impossible to understand. What you are saying would be indistinguishable from what comes out of the mouths of the delusional, pointing us at the evidence of why our president is an extraterrestrial. The only words that'd have for you, is "WTF?". Be greatful that we even understand you at all, don't take it for granted.

 

If this is your question, why is it so different from the others? And why do you keep changing the subject? I already answered that, I saw it coming. There is no purpose, except what you want it to be. Stop changing the subject!!!!!!!!

 

 

No, I think it does....supernatural war....to know God thru Christ. Sounds much like a plan to me.

It's a good thing I know the story line, because this really wouldn't make much sense. It still doesn't make sense, it only makes sense in the sense that i know what you mean. You are just wrong. This "grand plan" doesn't seem to make sense for the same reasons Rachel pointed out that the "sacrifice" doesn't make sense, but it still isn't the topic at hand.

 

 

I gathering you say it's all kind of a crap shoot....random and arbitrary. Please corrrect me if I am misreading.

That specific quote was stating that it was all off topic and didn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. As for the price of rice in china, I'll use an ancient greek quote from scriptures, "why all this on oak and stone?" - The Theogony

 

Why delve into irrelevant details?

 

 

the path to moral perfection seems rather constant over time BD. She mentioned a constant. That is what came to my mind.

You're vague. You speak with empty words, worse than that of a narcissist. I've dealt with a narcissist. I lived with one for 21 years in fact.

 

"path to moral perfection"......

 

I doubt you even know what you mean.

 

As for morals being consistent, if they are, then you just said the Bible an God was wrong, congradulations! If Christianity is right, you will be joining us in hell you blasphemer!

 

You are looking for me to explain the differences between the Law and Grace? Let me find the verses in Hebrews.....paraphrasing..."a better sacrifice".

To the original question, God makes all the rules, so why not just forgive us for our petty sins? Why all these sacrifices? That still doesn't answer the question!

[Guest end3]

Actually I don't undstand why this is so difficult. Even without a symbolic Christ, it really appears that non-believers have faith in morality. Christianity is just picking a story that fits IMO just as picking science or some other story.

 

C'mon. That's about as off-topic as it gets. How about answering the questions proposed earlier specifically about animal sacrifice and people piggybacking on the supposed sacrifice of Jesus?

 

Also, while it's certainly possible to misuse science and treat it as a "story," real science is a discipline that seeks evidence through experimentation. Hardly on the same level as saying, "Everything in that book is true just because somebody says so."

 

Did y'all not catch the verses in Hebrews, that Christ's sacrifice was different than an animal/grain etc. sacrifice? I'll be glad to give you my rendition.

[Thought2Much]

Did y'all not catch the verses in Hebrews, that Christ's sacrifice was different than an animal/grain etc. sacrifice? I'll be glad to give you my rendition.

 

We're familiar with the verses, end. Most of us here have read the Bible. It's just that the verses don't make a damn lick of sense. Which is why Rachel is asking about it to begin with. And nothing you have said to try to explain it makes it make any more sense than it already contains.

[MerryG]

Did y'all not catch the verses in Hebrews, that Christ's sacrifice was different than an animal/grain etc. sacrifice? I'll be glad to give you my rendition.

 

If your "rendition" actually answered the question I asked, I'd say go for it. But you seem to have forgotten my question. Or you're deliberately ignoring it.

[Guest end3]

I'm not that difficult to understand. My question is this: What is the purpose of humanity on earth....and by what evidence do you make your call, if any?

You'd be suprised by the fact, but if you weren't talking to former christians, you'd be impossible to understand. What you are saying would be indistinguishable from what comes out of the mouths of the delusional, pointing us at the evidence of why our president is an extraterrestrial. The only words that'd have for you, is "WTF?". Be greatful that we even understand you at all, don't take it for granted.

 

If this is your question, why is it so different from the others? And why do you keep changing the subject? I already answered that, I saw it coming. There is no purpose, except what you want it to be. Stop changing the subject!!!!!!!!

 

 

No, I think it does....supernatural war....to know God thru Christ. Sounds much like a plan to me.

It's a good thing I know the story line, because this really wouldn't make much sense. It still doesn't make sense, it only makes sense in the sense that i know what you mean. You are just wrong. This "grand plan" doesn't seem to make sense for the same reasons Rachel pointed out that the "sacrifice" doesn't make sense, but it still isn't the topic at hand.

 

 

I gathering you say it's all kind of a crap shoot....random and arbitrary. Please corrrect me if I am misreading.

That specific quote was stating that it was all off topic and didn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. As for the price of rice in china, I'll use an ancient greek quote from scriptures, "why all this on oak and stone?" - The Theogony

 

Why delve into irrelevant details?

 

 

the path to moral perfection seems rather constant over time BD. She mentioned a constant. That is what came to my mind.

You're vague. You speak with empty words, worse than that of a narcissist. I've dealt with a narcissist. I lived with one for 21 years in fact.

 

"path to moral perfection"......

 

I doubt you even know what you mean.

 

As for morals being consistent, if they are, then you just said the Bible an God was wrong, congradulations! If Christianity is right, you will be joining us in hell you blasphemer!

 

You are looking for me to explain the differences between the Law and Grace? Let me find the verses in Hebrews.....paraphrasing..."a better sacrifice".

To the original question, God makes all the rules, so why not just forgive us for our petty sins? Why all these sacrifices? That still doesn't answer the question!

 

I'm gonna quit with you for now BD. Sorry we couldn't communicate.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

It's not intentional...apologies if it is frustrating you. I mean that people practice morality and choose to do so despite having the story of Christ.....i.e. they willilfully make choices to pick morality.

The choice is an illusion. I know this because when I see things that are evil, I automatically get angry at those committing the crime and feel remorse for the victims. Clearly, there is no choice involved in my morality, just instinct. I can't choose to not react in the way I do. Why did some soldiers come home from war having killed child soldiers hating themselves? One of them was going to die either way, and they had a duty that left them no choice, but they still hated themselves because they saw killing children as immoral. Morality is hardwired into us, we don't choose it. Our enviroment and culture can shape it, but that's about it. That's why concepts like fairness and justice are universal not just to our species, but all apes. That's not to say selfishness and greed aren't also universal.

 

 

I was a high school dropout. I despise reading and writing.

O have mercy on little humble me! For I'm a lowly uneducated worthless fellow! Really? Well... regardless of what levels of selfhatred you have, or how you demean yourself, you must have some level of intelligence to be able to jump around and avoid arguements as you do, you must be intelligent enough to see that others have a point and you must jump away from their conclusions.

 

You can clearly read and write, despite how much you despise it. Its a shame, but whatever, not everyone likes to. Einstein it was I believe didn't know how to tie his shoes. No one would argue that he was dumb.

 

I really do hate hearing this selfdefacating nonsense, don't be sorry, just stop it!

 

Please sacrifice for me that we might communicate. Faith does have a meaning IMO as you use it because there is faith in the need for survival/peace/freedom/ what have you. There is meaning being your choices. You just don't choose the Christian meaning.

What is the meaning?

 

Evolution doesn't force you to be moral.

Well... Yeah it does. Dawkins explains why:

 

There are other videos out there talking about how it does evolve. I just don't feel like fishing them all out for someone who just doesn't feel like staying on topic.

 

This is not going to be to your satisfaction obviously, but what I ask is how is life, how is earth, all at an equilibrium with itself. Yes, I am sure there is scientific speculation, and I don't have a good answer for the monkey question.....but my belief that a creator has endowed the creation with the his qualities outweighs my belief that evolution gave monkeys a pinch of morality. Fair enough?

What? I don't get your question. Doesn't make sense.

 

As for your explanation of monkeys having morality, I didn't ask about those, I asked about apes. Either way, your stating such isn't fair enough, because you lack even a shred of evidence that creation happened or that God even exists! But back on topic!

 

I'm gonna quit with you for now BD. Sorry we couldn't communicate.

O poor poor you! Woe is you! Thou poor persecuted annoying thing you!

 

I can't argue, therefore I'll play victim and pretend that the other side is being unreasonable and won't communicate with me. Then run and cry like a baby. When it was me who didn't want to argue or even discuss the matter at hand, and wanted to twirl around and around, and avoid the actual subject at hand.

 

Really?

[MerryG]

I'm a n00b and perhaps it's not my place to say this. I've also helped lead this thread off its path. But I'm thinking it would be very nice if we stopped this whole diversion. The OP asked a good, thoughtful question and deserves better than this.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I'm a n00b and perhaps it's not my place to say this. I've also helped lead this thread off its path. But I'm thinking it would be very nice if we stopped this whole diversion. The OP asked a good, thoughtful question and deserves better than this.

Yes, I agree. And I'm sorry to everyone, especially the OP, for feeding into the diversion. The question is a thoughtful one that deserves a real answer.

[Guest end3]

I'm a n00b and perhaps it's not my place to say this. I've also helped lead this thread off its path. But I'm thinking it would be very nice if we stopped this whole diversion. The OP asked a good, thoughtful question and deserves better than this.

 

Hebrews 10 Merry.

[Guest end3]

The question: What is the point of a sacrifice? Very simply. I, we all must give part of our lives so that others will have more of theirs. Quit trying to be so pretentious that this makes no sense you any of you. First God required an animals life for the imbalance of human to human sin. The life of the animal I would deem as not as valued as the life of man. And the payment was only temporary in that it paid the BALANCE of sin a person acquired.....which is in contrast to Christ's life for all sin ongoing...provided faith and non-blasphemy of the HS.

 

Even if it is just a story, with no factual basis,....then you all have a huge inablility to grasp the theme. Crap, and I am the one that despised literature.

[Thought2Much]

I'm a n00b and perhaps it's not my place to say this. I've also helped lead this thread off its path. But I'm thinking it would be very nice if we stopped this whole diversion. The OP asked a good, thoughtful question and deserves better than this.

 

Hebrews 10 Merry.

 

End, we all know how to plug "sacrifice" into the search field in an online Bible and have it spit out Hebrews 10.

 

But that doesn't answer Rachel's question, or any of the other valid questions that have been brought up by others in the thread.

 

What you are providing is not some great revelation to us. We have read your Bible before, end. We know what it says.

[Guest end3]

I'm a n00b and perhaps it's not my place to say this. I've also helped lead this thread off its path. But I'm thinking it would be very nice if we stopped this whole diversion. The OP asked a good, thoughtful question and deserves better than this.

 

Hebrews 10 Merry.

 

End, we all know how to plug "sacrifice" into the search field in an online Bible and have it spit out Hebrews 10.

 

But that doesn't answer Rachel's question, or any of the other valid questions that have been brought up by others in the thread.

 

What you are providing is not some great revelation to us. We have read your Bible before, end. We know what it says.

 

I guess I don't get the question then....but everyone apologized for me, so I won't.

[Guest end3]

And another point. Why would you assume that God could not change the rules? Who says the lesson(s) are not for us to learn. And again, all the questions posed here are form a standpoint that you know the entity God. And if you subscribe to Christianity, then to know Christ is to know God.....so look at Christ.

 

You know BD....maybe my mind just works faster than yours....bigger jumps....

[Thought2Much]

The question: What is the point of a sacrifice? Very simply. I, we all must give part of our lives so that others will have more of theirs. Quit trying to be so pretentious that this makes no sense you any of you.

 

It's not about us being pretentious. It's also not about us being obtuse. Do you not realize that what you are saying makes no objective sense? Please tell me how my sacrifice of a lamb allows others to have more of anything.

 

Actually, you know what? Don't try to explain that. I doubt any answer given would make more sense than the statement you'd be trying to clarify anyway.

[Guest end3]

The question: What is the point of a sacrifice? Very simply. I, we all must give part of our lives so that others will have more of theirs. Quit trying to be so pretentious that this makes no sense you any of you.

 

It's not about us being pretentious. It's also not about us being obtuse. Do you not realize that what you are saying makes no objective sense? Please tell me how my sacrifice of a lamb allows others to have more of anything.

 

Actually, you know what? Don't try to explain that. I doubt any answer given would make more sense than the statement you'd be trying to clarify anyway.

 

Great, let's make it fit objectively. What a hoot. Right, I need to read Dawkins...I forgot. All hail the ongoing perfection of knowledge....bow low for you will all fall short.

[Thought2Much]

Great, let's make it fit objectively.

 

Uh, yeah. Exactly. I'm not about to intentionally lower my intellect to try to understand a deity or his followers that can't communicate in a way that makes sense.

[Thought2Much]

As a side note, I have to point out how amusing I find it that religious people will say "Science can explain the 'how,' but religion is needed to explain 'why,'" when the very last question that any religion, but in particular Christianity, can answer is "why?"

 

Why is homosexuality wrong? Because God said so. Why did God say so? Because he's mysterious and you wouldn't understand.

 

Why did God kill everything on earth in the flood instead of just killing the bad humans? Because he's mysterious and you wouldn't understand.

 

Why did God require people to sacrifice to atone for their sins? Because he's mysterious and you wouldn't understand.

 

Why did God send Jesus to die for the sin nature that he allowed us to have to begin with? Because he's mysterious and you wouldn't understand.

 

I see a pattern here.