What Is The Point Of A Sacrifice?

[Guest end3]

End,

 

When Abraham sacrificed the lamb instead of Isaac, it was Abraham making a blood covenant with God.

 

When Jesus died, it was a blood covenant between all humans and God.

 

Blood. Blood. Blood. So shut up about Work, Work, Work.

 

Was Christ's obedience a work?

That wasn't the "sacrifice."

 

Sacrifice used for "working hard" is just an expression. Sacrifice as a religious concept is about taking life and shedding blood.

 

Ok, let me go look it up. I will be glad to defer victory if necessary.

[Ouroboros]

Btw, how is the family H? Wishing the best, you know that.

I know that.

 

But it doesn't mean I let you off too easy.

[Thought2Much]

Would you please butt out. You have half a brain because you limit yourself to half. If you want to wake up and smell the enjoyable half, then I'll be glad to visit. But the fact by itself is let's see.......ah, dull. Again, I acknowledged you as all factual....please vacate at your convenience. Thx.

 

Oh, poor me. Look, I'm totally hamstrung by logical thinking, the kind of thinking which has gotten us nothing but computers, cell phones, automobiles, earthquake-resistant buildings, clean drinking water, lowered infant mortality, increased long-term cancer survival rates and increased crop yields per acre of land used. Yeah, that logical thinking is pitiful, isn't it?

[Ouroboros]

Ok, let me go look it up. I will be glad to defer victory if necessary.

Thank you. I know where you're coming from. And I know what you're talking about as in "give it you all," or "give up yourself" as a sacrifice. And sure, yes, Jesus supposedly did that too. And Abraham too. And Peter, Paul, John, Bob, and Mary. I did too, for a long time. But that's just not the same as "give up a sacrifice to God in form of a perfect lamb that you slit the throat of." Not the same use of word.

 

Here's a link to one out of many articles about Abraham's covenant: http://www.livingwor...d_Covenant.html

 

extract:

Now, the word "covenant" when it's used in the Bible actually means "to cut". To draw blood. The old covenant established in the Old Testament was established between God and Abraham — established with blood. The new covenant was established between God and man through Jesus Christ — also through blood.

These are not my words, but the words from some "Living Word Mission". Some Christian mission organisation. So what the Hell do I know? This is what some Christians (many actually) say, not me.

 

I even think I might still have a book or two in storage from my Christian time talking about this concept. Hagin, Ekman, Roberts, ... can't remember their names. All those preachers saying shit like this. But I guess they were all wrong.

[Guest end3]

1) a sacrifice, victim

 

 

That is out of Hebrew 9 specifically discussing Christ dying on the Cross. The way I see it is we willingly make ourselves victim to loss of pride, etc that we may be known. i.e. your wife knows you by your self induced victim of loss of self...to her service. Hard to refute. You might actually write a winning program have you the mental capacity for the big picture....lol.

 

She knows you love her not by your professing, but by your actions. Really Hans, this is not even worth jousting about.

 

[Guest end3]

Yeah, that logical thinking is pitiful, isn't it?

 

In your case, yes.

[Guest end3]

Damn it Merry....this is the last time.

[Thought2Much]

Yeah, that logical thinking is pitiful, isn't it?

 

In your case, yes.

 

Ah, ad hominem attacks. The very, very last refuge of the loser of the argument. So noted. You may carry on being proven wrong by Ouroboros now.

[Ouroboros]

1) a sacrifice, victim

 

 

That is out of Hebrew 9 specifically discussing Christ dying on the Cross. The way I see it is we willingly make ourselves victim to loss of pride, etc that we may be known. i.e. your wife knows you by your self induced victim of loss of self...to her service. Hard to refute. You might actually write a winning program have you the mental capacity for the big picture....lol.

 

Read the quote I did from the Living Word Mission page. That's just one of many articles about the blood covenant.

 

How about the Bible as evidence?

 

Matthew 26:28 ...this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

 

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

Blood? No? You don't see the word in there?

 

If I recall correctly, the word "testament" is same or similar to covenant. But don't quote me on that.

[Guest end3]

Ok, let me go look it up. I will be glad to defer victory if necessary.

Thank you. I know where you're coming from. And I know what you're talking about as in "give it you all," or "give up yourself" as a sacrifice. And sure, yes, Jesus supposedly did that too. And Abraham too. And Peter, Paul, John, Bob, and Mary. I did too, for a long time. But that's just not the same as "give up a sacrifice to God in form of a perfect lamb that you slit the throat of." Not the same use of word.

 

Here's a link to one out of many articles about Abraham's covenant: http://www.livingwor...d_Covenant.html

 

Well, let me take another approach. When Christ was pierced by the guard in his side, the blood and water rushed forth. I have always taken this as the necessary components for the birth of the "second Adam"....the blood being the life and the water being the Spirit. I don't have any other answers. I can see there is a literal difference, but I don't do literal often.

 

extract:

Now, the word "covenant" when it's used in the Bible actually means "to cut". To draw blood. The old covenant established in the Old Testament was established between God and Abraham — established with blood. The new covenant was established between God and man through Jesus Christ — also through blood.

These are not my words, but the words from some "Living Word Mission". Some Christian mission organisation. So what the Hell do I know? This is what some Christians (many actually) say, not me.

 

I even think I might still have a book or two in storage from my Christian time talking about this concept. Hagin, Ekman, Roberts, ... can't remember their names. All those preachers saying shit like this. But I guess they were all wrong.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

The question: What is the point of a sacrifice? Very simply. I, we all must give part of our lives so that others will have more of theirs. Quit trying to be so pretentious that this makes no sense you any of you.

This part would make sense if it were in another thread of another time, but it hasn't a thing to do with the OP's question.

 

First God required an animals life for the imbalance of human to human sin. The life of the animal I would deem as not as valued as the life of man. And the payment was only temporary in that it paid the BALANCE of sin a person acquired.....which is in contrast to Christ's life for all sin ongoing...provided faith and non-blasphemy of the HS.

Which begs the question, why the animal or christ sacrifice in the first place? Which was Rachel's question!

 

Why isn't an animal's life as valuable as our own? I'd disagree with you there.

 

 

And to be honest, we're not kidding you, you really don't make ANY sense.

 

The bible was always taught as though it was one continuous narrative telling a story of love across time, but when I really look at it, it looks more like a cobbled mess.

While it isn't my hypothesis, my hypothesis is that the Bible came from even smaller fragments, look up "The Documentary Hypothesis", its one of the theories on the composition of the Old Testament and how it came about. It's safe to say that you're right without a doubt. its a cobbled mess. Much of the old testament might not even come from the same religions. One of the Psalms came from a Canaanite Psalm, Joseph's story seems an aweful lot like the Egyptian story Anubis and Bata, and the first few chapters seems to have come from the Enuma Elish, Eridu Genesis, and the story of Utnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh. There are also hints at the David Story of David and Goliath, being influenced by the greek Heracles or another greek hero (being that Goliath's armor and shield were interestingly greek, and not philistine).

 

Just me on a practical level....I value human life over any animal life...plant life, etc. This is pretty much true in reality, right? So why would it not be merciful to take an animals life in lieu of a humans? It makes sense to me. So why not God's OWN sacrifice to show HIS wanting for us to have life via His sacrifice? Makes perfect sense. And what I said about mutual sacrifice......is this true or not true. And how are you going to prove this on an objective level, but still it's pretty much true. And the factamentalists. (you like that)....the factamentalists have NO DOUBT that their facts somehow supercede THESE truths. Who can keep the rules? You? You take out the trash perfectly for your wife?

Sexism and Zoosadism, both are disgusting and those are things you've demonstrated time and time again.

[Guest end3]

1) a sacrifice, victim

 

 

That is out of Hebrew 9 specifically discussing Christ dying on the Cross. The way I see it is we willingly make ourselves victim to loss of pride, etc that we may be known. i.e. your wife knows you by your self induced victim of loss of self...to her service. Hard to refute. You might actually write a winning program have you the mental capacity for the big picture....lol.

 

Read the quote I did from the Living Word Mission page. That's just one of many articles about the blood covenant.

 

How about the Bible as evidence?

 

Matthew 26:28 ...this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

 

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

Blood? No? You don't see the word in there?

 

If I recall correctly, the word "testament" is same or similar to covenant. But don't quote me on that.

 

Blood used in that specific Matthew passage: see 'b'.

 

1) blood

 

a) of man or animals

 

refers to the seat of life

 

c) of those things that resemble blood, grape juice

 

2) blood shed, to be shed by violence, slay, murder

 

[Guest wester]

E.O. Wilson in his recent book The Social Conquest of Earth, makes the claim that evolution does not happen necessarily to individuals, but more importantly to groups and communities. So, according to this logic, altruism and empathy are the basic evolved functions to permit perpetuation of homo sapiens.

[Guest end3]

Yeah, that logical thinking is pitiful, isn't it?

 

In your case, yes.

 

Ah, ad hominem attacks. The very, very last refuge of the loser of the argument. So noted. You may carry on being proven wrong by Ouroboros now.

 

You are getting progressively pathetic. Put down the shovel now....you won't be able to climb out of that hole before long.

[Guest end3]

I gotta go run some analyses Hans. Maybe tomorrow. I appreciate the conversation.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

I wasn't referring to you as pretentious. The blood sacrifice I see as symbolic of life. Leviticus says the life of the animal is in the blood....if I am remembering correctly. I just see it as mostly synonomous with our daily lives.

Do you realize what you are saying? If so, how are you missing how barbaric it is? Death is symbolic of life? WTF?!?

 

The Law had it's time, no.....until it was fullfilled?......until another cup was poured?.....the covenant of Grace? You are the Bible guru.....how do you see it differently....seriously.

Incoherent nonsense. What does it even mean for the law to be fulfilled? Actually, forget I asked.

 

I've already answered that....the heirarchy is defined in Genesis. If you were God, would you sacrifice a human life or an animals with new rules.

If I was God, I'd make humans perfect or understand that they'd be mistake makers, and either way, I wouldn't need either animals nor humans to be sacrificed. You worship your Baal, and you believe that your Baal you say exists requires sacrifice. If I was God, I'd be complaining about everyone nagging me. I hate the attention, stop worshipping me! That's why i never want to be a celebrity.

 

You ever think that maybe your Gods (elohim) don't exist?

[Thought2Much]

So, outside of calling me names that boil down to "fact based," "rational," and "logical," (Wow. How horrible. How will I ever recover from such a blow? How?) do you actually have anything to offer the original post's question, end, which you still haven't actually answered? I'll let you think about it overnight.

[Guest end3]

So, outside of calling me names that boil down to "fact based," "rational," and "logical," (Wow. How horrible. How will I ever recover from such a blow? How?) do you actually have anything to offer the original post's question, end, which you still haven't actually answered? I'll let you think about it overnight.

 

No, I'm stumped....you got me. Please stop as I admit complete defeat. Thx.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Would you take your tap dancing shoes off for just a second, and either:

1. Answer the question about why sacrifice is necessary, or
    
   
2. Admit that you just don't know the answer to the question <-- Hint: we all already know it's this one.
   

This. Quoted for truth.

 

Humans have been learning on our own. Science has progressed through human thoughts, sweat, and work, not prayer, nor blood.

Again, horse hockey.....there have been many a war fought, many a field plowed, many a ship built in faith. Really bad statement H.

No, he's right. You're religion sacrificing to Baal doesn't add to any progress.

 

There's no learning with y'all....ears to hear is the term I think the Bible uses. Factamentalists. Damn that's good. What is that quote....some guy with an "I" starting his last name 1907 -1994 I think....something along the lines of life is in the unknown, not the known. Crap, I don't remember.

 

You people are fooling yourselves. At least Anterman has it right....you all are ignoring the life half of life opting for the facts. Pure de stupid. But hey, it's your choice.....mostly.

 

I'm out peeps....you don't even challenge the hem of the garment. PEEECE

The thing about Antlerman, and even Asanerman, is that you understand neither. I greatly admire what they have to add, because they do add things of value. I've actually heard good arguements on things from theists like Thurisaz and LunaticHeathen. From you? Forget about it.

 

You talk about our intelligence, read your own post for once. In fact, look back through them all, peer into your empty words and see the vast emptiness upon which you preach is the world. There is nothing you talk about, its all nonsense.

[mymistake]

So there you have it. There is no point to the sacrifice in the Bible. The apologists have given their best effort and the results are laughable.

 

Bible answers were dreamed up by Iron Age barbarians. It's a glimpse into the mind of our ancestors, back when we imagined every shadow and every event had some invisible spirit creature working in the background. Blood sacrifice is common to pagan religions in order to appease these imaginary spirit beings. Obviously it is in the Bible as a holdover from even older religions.

 

I thought I asked you to please leave me alone. You sir, I abhore and you bring out the very worst in me. I see through your pretend quiet exterior to your utter disdain. Scary huh.

 

There is absolutely nothing provocative in mymistake's post. You have failed to make your case, end. Just accept that you have no idea what you're talking about with some maturity, and move on.

 

Since when does End get to decide what threads I get to participate in? I didn't even quote him. Really End what have I done to you?

[Thought2Much]

Since when does End get to decide what threads I get to participate in? I didn't even quote him. Really End what have I done to you?

 

He told me to butt out, too. Classy, that.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Since when does End get to decide what threads I get to participate in? I didn't even quote him. Really End what have I done to you?

 

He told me to butt out, too. Classy, that.

And that I refuse to communicate with him so he's done with me. He's a friendly one isn't he?

[Kaiser01]

Why do you come here End?

[Guest end3]

Since when does End get to decide what threads I get to participate in? I didn't even quote him. Really End what have I done to you?

 

He told me to butt out, too. Classy, that.

And that I refuse to communicate with him so he's done with me. He's a friendly one isn't he?

Would you take your tap dancing shoes off for just a second, and either:

1. Answer the question about why sacrifice is necessary, or
    
   
2. Admit that you just don't know the answer to the question <-- Hint: we all already know it's this one.
   

This. Quoted for truth.

 

Humans have been learning on our own. Science has progressed through human thoughts, sweat, and work, not prayer, nor blood.

Again, horse hockey.....there have been many a war fought, many a field plowed, many a ship built in faith. Really bad statement H.

No, he's right. You're religion sacrificing to Baal doesn't add to any progress.

 

There's no learning with y'all....ears to hear is the term I think the Bible uses. Factamentalists. Damn that's good. What is that quote....some guy with an "I" starting his last name 1907 -1994 I think....something along the lines of life is in the unknown, not the known. Crap, I don't remember.

 

You people are fooling yourselves. At least Anterman has it right....you all are ignoring the life half of life opting for the facts. Pure de stupid. But hey, it's your choice.....mostly.

 

I'm out peeps....you don't even challenge the hem of the garment. PEEECE

The thing about Antlerman, and even Asanerman, is that you understand neither. I greatly admire what they have to add, because they do add things of value. I've actually heard good arguements on things from theists like Thurisaz and LunaticHeathen. From you? Forget about it.

 

You talk about our intelligence, read your own post for once. In fact, look back through them all, peer into your empty words and see the vast emptiness upon which you preach is the world. There is nothing you talk about, its all nonsense.

 

Honestly gentlemen, does this really make you feel better. If it does, then you all have more of a problem than I do. At least I admit to reveling in hatred, but I don't think it the best idea. Please, if you feel you understand me, the add something to the converation. But if you don't, then please say poitely, out of request and respect for me, I don't understand....could you please restate or be more specific. I could call you a bunch of worthless broken down pricks, but that would be not in line with my faith. So, just because I have a dissenting opinion...and marvelously valid at that, doesn't mean you all have to jump in with your vitriol (sp?). There are some pretty sharp individuals on this site that don't have a problem seeing my concepts....you get my point?

[Guest end3]

Why do you come here End?

Some friends, the conversations, the topics, philosophy....and to smite the arrogance of the dismally blind. How's that.