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Goodbye Jesus

Facebook Discussion With Fundies About Healing And Divine Intervention


jblueep

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What we're trying to say....

 

...we want to join you in your love shack...

 

The more the merrier!!! happy-dancing-crazy-rabbit-emoticon.gif patpat-dance-crazy-rabbit-emoticon.gif moving-crazy-rabbit-emoticon.gif

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WHERE THE HELLZ IZ U GETTINZ THEZE COOLZ ICONZZZZ???

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Not gonna lie. His grammar and punctuation had me glazing over and fighting to find any sensical bits.

 

I know how it feels to want someone to hear the nonsense they are spewing- sadly they are too busy trying to think of the next thing they need to say to confirm their beliefs.

 

Xianity is such an endless circle jerk, why not just say any old bullshit and hope it sticks? 49.gif

 

What? You didn't understand this:

 

Ya nothing wrong with doing go but it good for yourself not good to glorify God which could mean that ya God is in fact using atheist for good...There are what scientist say today finger print left for scientist to find God and it will blow your mind what they have find outside this world that proves there is a God....

 

Makes perfect sense to me silverpenny013Hmmm.gif

 

I read that quote a couple times and finally gave up. Too many g's and o's and goo's and nonsense.

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WHERE THE HELLZ IZ U GETTINZ THEZE COOLZ ICONZZZZ???

 

I found out about it from Margee:

 

http://emoticoner.com/

 

 

I LOVE THE KWAZY WABBITS!!!! magic-right-crazy-rabbit-emoticon.gif

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Where is Margee? She is definitely in the love shack. And Pos too of course :D

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Not gonna lie. His grammar and punctuation had me glazing over and fighting to find any sensical bits.

 

I know how it feels to want someone to hear the nonsense they are spewing- sadly they are too busy trying to think of the next thing they need to say to confirm their beliefs.

 

Xianity is such an endless circle jerk, why not just say any old bullshit and hope it sticks? 49.gif

 

What? You didn't understand this:

 

Ya nothing wrong with doing go but it good for yourself not good to glorify God which could mean that ya God is in fact using atheist for good...There are what scientist say today finger print left for scientist to find God and it will blow your mind what they have find outside this world that proves there is a God....

 

Makes perfect sense to me silverpenny013Hmmm.gif

 

I read that quote a couple times and finally gave up. Too many g's and o's and goo's and nonsense.

 

Hoe Lee Phuc I completely agree. I was waiting for some "kemsogd" or a few !!!1!!1!!!'s to show up. eek.gif It might have been easier to get through if it was in Russian. zDuivel7.gif

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Wow. I can't believe how nasty Darren was to you Jason, the things he said were just low. What's worse is that he didn't send you a pm to find out why you left church and don't believe anymore before ripping into you. It's also sad that he seems offended that you don't share his beliefs anymore. I don't think he knows how horrible and hurtful it is to say that he gets a bad feeling from you and you're being used by Satan to lead people away. In order to believe this he has to also believe that you are trying to deliberately lead people to hell for asking reasonable questions. I don't understand how he could think this about you, from everything I've read about you it looks to me like you are a very caring person who does not desire to hurt anyone in anyway and will put others ahead of yourself even if it hurts you.

 

I haven't spoken to any of my Christian friends/ acquaintances about what happened with me and after seeing what happens with other peole I'm not looking forward to when it happens.

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Darren seems to be incapable of writing a correct sentence in English. I wouldn't have the patience to read such a mess. Then when I do get some of this stuff - its complete drivel. I really feel sorry for him in his ignorance.

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I don't know how I could possibly have handled that kind of asinine douchery as gracefully as you did, J. None of these fucktarded Christians actually know what's in their own Bibles. God will heal someone by killing them? Is that the new way Christians are rationalizing away God's total inability or unwillingness to do what he promised to do in his own Bible like 6 times? God never said that. Nor did he say the whole "yes/no/maybe" mantra. He said YES. ALL THE TIME. YES. Never no. Never half-assing it. He said YES. The idea of the omnipotent creator of the universe including FINE FUCKING PRINT on something as basic as a promise to always answer prayers is anathema to me.

 

Welll.... they wheedle and snivel.... of course he answers prayer.

 

As long as it was his will all along.

 

As long as you--and everybody involved in the request--is perfectly onboard, utterly dedicated, and completely free of doubt (sorry, Thomas; your miracle never would have happened in today's Christianity).

 

As long as God was in the mood to do it anyway.

 

As long as you pray and self-efface yourself enough for long enough.

 

As long as it's not too miraculous. That moving mountains shit isn't in their Bible. And no amputees, either. They piss God off.

 

As long as it's not expected to be permanent. Feeling great the night of the revival is one thing, but if you get sick again later, or the situation recurs worse later, then that's on you, brah.

 

As I look at this list, the thing that really runs through my mind is how the fuck did I ever buy into this horseshit?

 

If I said that exact same thing about Zeus always answering my prayers, but didn't ever actually manifest miracles and had a whole slew of weak rationalizations to explain away why I never seemed to get what I asked for, would Christians be obligated to lend credence to my claim? Then why would they insist I do this for their weak, puny, ineffective, uncaring god?

 

This post had me giggling for half an hour last night. Thank you Akheia. I nominate the "fine print" comment as post of the month!

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J - I have to admit when I first started reading I was questioning why you would say Seth was on the verge of atheism, but now I understand completely. I can't imagine how else someone who is a believer would recruit known atheists to help argue against other Christians. Does he live close to you? I think he's probably 5 beers on a Friday night away from pulling the trigger.

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Jblue and 2Honest, I really am amazed that you guys can keep your patience and composure when you're dealing with these people. I'm pretty sure that if I were in the same situation, I would have lashed out in a spectacular fashion.

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I love y'all sO mUcH, I'd bust a load all over the both of ya!

 

And by "bust a load", I mean "empty a large sack of warm feelings and sticky admiration all over you ".

 

I may have gone too far this time.

 

Oh well. "Post"

 

What happens in the shack stays in the shack

 

And gets treated by your doctor.

 

 

Now for something completely different. pyth.gif

 

The Blues,

 

I have to agree with many on here. Somehow despite all the crap, collectively, as a family, you manage to express, if you'll forgive the religious reference, a Buddhic type of compassion rarely seen in the world. And that was a run on sentence among other things.

 

How you mange to do it is something worthy of analysis and emulation. Cryotanknotworthy.gif

 

From a different angle, Darren.<FRAGMENT>

 

Based upon information that you have shared it appears that he has taken your leaving religion personally. He seems to have tied your compassion for him when he was literally hurting as being because of religion and not because it is who you are. Because of this, he seems unable to separate the person from the religion. He seems to think that without religion people can't be who they were. They must be different and of course different is bad.

 

Unfortunately, he seem to far "lost down the rabbit hole" to see his way out. Nor does he seem to want to. That is his choice. Just as your continued communication with him or not is yours.

 

I believe his comments directed to you were a typical passive aggressive response to the hurt that he feels in your leaving. An attempt if you will to hurt "you" in some manner as he was hurt. This seems to have had an effect on 2honest and for that I empathize.

 

Many times when we make decisions that are as large as leaving religion, or divorce. They can have secondary or tertiary effects that were unanticipated. If one were to consider all the implications of a choice, than a decision may never be made. Part of learning is learning that people will make decisions which will have effects on you that were not considered by the decision maker. This seems to be one of many lesson Darren could learn from this experience should he choose to.

 

That said. I think they way you are handling it is good work. That perhaps by showing the compassion and love still exists despite not being christian anymore, maybe it will have an effect. Simply, being able to that on a consistent basis is very good work in itself.

 

But I am rambling.

 

thanks for sharing the posting.....I obviously have enjoyed it. :)

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A couple more comments today:

 

 

 

 

 

Darren: No disrespect or personal offense towards the blue's. I said things that shouldn't have ever been said not my place. Your right that is there choice.

 

 

Jerry: Seth, what you are questioning is not whether God does or doesn't do something, but why. To take it even further, the real question is about the character of God. Scripture says that God is love. If that is true, then we can see God's hand in all aspects of our lives. He lives in the lives of all believers and He is all-present. How can He not be involved in every aspect of our lives.

 

If He is not love and not involved in all aspects of our lives, then what is He? He then becomes ambivalent, apathetic, cruel, hateful, or a non-issue. If He is not love, then none of the Bible is true. As a dad, I am involved in as much of my girl's lives as humanly possible. Why wouldn't I be? I love them with everything in me. Both Rose and I have battled health issues. I can understand the frustration. In addition, we were full-time care-givers for 15 months to my Mom who battled cancer and for 22 months for my grandmother who battled COPD, macular degeneration, and arthritis.

 

Through the many health battles, doctors visits, and hospital stays, we asked all the questions, and had the wonderings. In each case, we saw God's hand working for us and felt His peace working in us. Sometimes He did it sovereignly, most of the time He did it through the medical team, hospice, our families, and especially through FCC/The Abbey. Just yesterday, we saw God's hand again. A good friend of ours was missing for about 15 hours. She dropped her husband off at work and had a bad reaction to a new medication. She became disoriented, got lost and ran out of gas. She was found some 30 miles from her home.

 

Was she found by God's leading, or by shear dumb luck? Other than being a little dehydrated, she is okay. To better your answers of God's character, read some of Ravi Zacharias' writings. My bigger concern is, what has made your heart so hard that you don't care about what God is doing overseas? I don't have a problem with you asking questions and seeking answers. I do have a concern for the hurts and pains that you are experiencing. If there is anything I can do to help you through it, please let me know. God's hand is on you, His call is upon you and His Word and Spirit are in you.

 

 

 

 

49.gifWendybanghead.gif49.gif

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Ah, sweet delusion. It goes down like an ice cold draft beer.

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J - I have to admit when I first started reading I was questioning why you would say Seth was on the verge of atheism, but now I understand completely. I can't imagine how else someone who is a believer would recruit known atheists to help argue against other Christians. Does he live close to you? I think he's probably 5 beers on a Friday night away from pulling the trigger.

 

Yeah, he lives close. I see him several times a week as he comes to the same cigar lounge to hang out with me. He's 19 years old, so he's figuring things out. Either way he goes is fine with me because he's probably the most rational xian I've ever met.

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Jblue and 2Honest, I really am amazed that you guys can keep your patience and composure when you're dealing with these people. I'm pretty sure that if I were in the same situation, I would have lashed out in a spectacular fashion.

 

I have to agree with many on here. Somehow despite all the crap, collectively, as a family, you manage to express, if you'll forgive the religious reference, a Buddhic type of compassion rarely seen in the world.

 

Thanks guys. I think it helps that we lived the last decade of our xianity with a compassionate philosophy. As I've said in previous posts, April and I experienced the best version of xianity (that we know of). It still didn't hold up and was just as ugly as other versions when you dug down deep enough, but we did take away a good thing from it, i.e. genuine compassion and the valuing of people above all else.

 

It's definitely been a transition. We did go through the angry stage as most of us rightfully do. I would say that in the last month, I've pretty mostly transitioned into the "non-anti-anything" phase, where I can return to what I really am. We all go at our own pace, and I still have flashes where I want to pummel them, but mostly I can see the person behind the madness and separate their value as a person from their crazy bullshit.

 

In my opinion they are deceived, and the evangelist in me wants give them a chance by killing their fears through love and kindness. I know it won't work on most (at least in the moment and maybe never), but as long as I'm centered to the point where trying to help them doesn't hurt me emotionally, then it's worth it. I feel like there's a place for genuine debate, but if my point in debating is to defeat them, then I've won nothing. Even if they know I'm right, the shame of defeat may keep them from opening their eyes to new possibilities.

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Based upon information that you have shared it appears that he has taken your leaving religion personally. He seems to have tied your compassion for him when he was literally hurting as being because of religion and not because it is who you are. Because of this, he seems unable to separate the person from the religion. He seems to think that without religion people can't be who they were. They must be different and of course different is bad.

 

Hammer. Nail. Head. Dead on right. This might be the greatest misconception xians have and the one that makes me most sad because it means that they are also devaluing themselves.

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Jerry: Seth, what you are questioning is not whether God does or doesn't do something, but why. To take it even further, the real question is about the character of God. Scripture says that God is love. If that is true, then we can see God's hand in all aspects of our lives. He lives in the lives of all believers and He is all-present. How can He not be involved in every aspect of our lives.

Leap + leap + leap + leap = finally, something I can speak to. WendyDoh.gif

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Based upon information that you have shared it appears that he has taken your leaving religion personally. He seems to have tied your compassion for him when he was literally hurting as being because of religion and not because it is who you are. Because of this, he seems unable to separate the person from the religion. He seems to think that without religion people can't be who they were. They must be different and of course different is bad.

 

Hammer. Nail. Head. Dead on right. This might be the greatest misconception xians have and the one that makes me most sad because it means that they are also devaluing themselves.

 

I was gonna comment on this as well. I really like how you put that, Stryper. It seems to be the case for a lot of the Christians so many of us were friends with. That lack of realizing that only our beliefs have changed, not the people we really are. It makes me question if they really are who they present themselves as. Are they really that good? That nice? Or is it just the religion?

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Through the many health battles, doctors visits, and hospital stays, we asked all the questions, and had the wonderings. In each case, we saw God's hand working for us and felt His peace working in us. Sometimes He did it sovereignly, most of the time He did it through the medical team, hospice, our families, and especially through FCC/The Abbey. Just yesterday, we saw God's hand again. A good friend of ours was missing for about 15 hours. She dropped her husband off at work and had a bad reaction to a new medication. She became disoriented, got lost and ran out of gas. She was found some 30 miles from her home.

 

Was she found by God's leading, or by shear dumb luck? Other than being a little dehydrated, she is okay. To better your answers of God's character, read some of Ravi Zacharias' writings. My bigger concern is, what has made your heart so hard that you don't care about what God is doing overseas? I don't have a problem with you asking questions and seeking answers. I do have a concern for the hurts and pains that you are experiencing. If there is anything I can do to help you through it, please let me know. God's hand is on you, His call is upon you and His Word and Spirit are in you.

 

 

 

 

49.gifWendybanghead.gif49.gif

 

Jesus fuck, this is some batshittery you've discovered here. This guy needs a padded helmet to just function in society, doesn't he?

 

Why did God--his all-powerful, all-loving father-deity, magic sky fairy, happy helping hand from the heavens, make Jerry's friend's car just STALL so she didn't get lost? Why didn't he make her not get the bad reaction to her medications? Or just not make her need the medications at all? The aftereffects of serious dehydration on the human body are not inconsiderable, and the trauma of getting disoriented and lost like that will likely stay with that poor woman for a while. If God was going to do a miracle, why did he wait so long to make it happen? That's not love or kindness. It's deliberate fucking cruelty. There's no lesson at all that he could want to impart to that woman that required him to put her through that kind of fear and pain.

 

Also, it's insulting that he assumes you don't understand "god's character". You were in church for YEARS. You paid thousands of dollars to further the church. You were integral members of your faith and you did every single thing that Jerry's doing now. That he'd insist you should go read something to understand something you already knew and rejected speaks volumes to his own narcissistic worldview. If you left the church, then OBVIOUSLY you don't understand Yahweh/Jesus. But what if you did...? I bet it'd blow his mind to think that almost all of us who left Christianity were perfectly aware of the nature of their deity... and found it to be illogical, irrational, unsupported by evidence, and worst of all, not loving at all. If we did actually understand the Bible and did understand what Yahweh/Jesus was like, and we still left, what does that say about Jerry's religion?

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I think the saddest thing about these kinds of conversations is how condescending and dismissive xians are and they truly don't know it. I think most of them don't at all mean to be unkind or offensive, they think they are just speaking the truth. Then they think people are 'afraid of the truth'.

 

I still marvel every day that I thought that way for the better part of 25 years and I still marvel that I was ever able to get out.

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Through the many health battles, doctors visits, and hospital stays, we asked all the questions, and had the wonderings. In each case, we saw God's hand working for us and felt His peace working in us. Sometimes He did it sovereignly, most of the time He did it through the medical team, hospice, our families, and especially through FCC/The Abbey. Just yesterday, we saw God's hand again. A good friend of ours was missing for about 15 hours. She dropped her husband off at work and had a bad reaction to a new medication. She became disoriented, got lost and ran out of gas. She was found some 30 miles from her home.

 

Was she found by God's leading, or by shear dumb luck? Other than being a little dehydrated, she is okay. To better your answers of God's character, read some of Ravi Zacharias' writings. My bigger concern is, what has made your heart so hard that you don't care about what God is doing overseas? I don't have a problem with you asking questions and seeking answers. I do have a concern for the hurts and pains that you are experiencing. If there is anything I can do to help you through it, please let me know. God's hand is on you, His call is upon you and His Word and Spirit are in you.

 

 

 

 

49.gifWendybanghead.gif49.gif

 

Jesus fuck, this is some batshittery you've discovered here. This guy needs a padded helmet to just function in society, doesn't he?

 

I was thinking something made out of tinfoil? Perhaps add some yarn or string and a reflector or a couple of wires... :)

 

Based upon information that you have shared it appears that he has taken your leaving religion personally. He seems to have tied your compassion for him when he was literally hurting as being because of religion and not because it is who you are. Because of this, he seems unable to separate the person from the religion. He seems to think that without religion people can't be who they were. They must be different and of course different is bad.

 

Hammer. Nail. Head. Dead on right. This might be the greatest misconception xians have and the one that makes me most sad because it means that they are also devaluing themselves.

 

I was gonna comment on this as well. I really like how you put that, Stryper. It seems to be the case for a lot of the Christians so many of us were friends with. That lack of realizing that only our beliefs have changed, not the people we really are. It makes me question if they really are who they present themselves as. Are they really that good? That nice? Or is it just the religion?

 

In my personal experience, many of them are really angry people who just want to shove rules on other people but never follow rules themselves. Although I have actually met some nice xians, I have unfortunately met way too many mean nasty evil people.

 

Most atheists don't believe in evil because it is a xian concept, I am an exception to that rule, I think most xians personify evil. All that "show the jesus love" is nothing more than sugar laced with asbestos, arsenic and cyanide. It just reminds me of the big warning... "want some candy little boy?"

 

The people who were inherently good before the cult got them will usually break away. True nasty people will stay and become huge fundies.

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Based upon information that you have shared it appears that he has taken your leaving religion personally. He seems to have tied your compassion for him when he was literally hurting as being because of religion and not because it is who you are. Because of this, he seems unable to separate the person from the religion. He seems to think that without religion people can't be who they were. They must be different and of course different is bad.

 

Hammer. Nail. Head. Dead on right. This might be the greatest misconception xians have and the one that makes me most sad because it means that they are also devaluing themselves.

 

I was gonna comment on this as well. I really like how you put that, Stryper. It seems to be the case for a lot of the Christians so many of us were friends with. That lack of realizing that only our beliefs have changed, not the people we really are. It makes me question if they really are who they present themselves as. Are they really that good? That nice? Or is it just the religion?

 

In my personal experience, many of them are really angry people who just want to shove rules on other people but never follow rules themselves. Although I have actually met some nice xians, I have unfortunately met way too many mean nasty evil people.

 

Most atheists don't believe in evil because it is a xian concept, I am an exception to that rule, I think most xians personify evil. All that "show the jesus love" is nothing more than sugar laced with asbestos, arsenic and cyanide. It just reminds me of the big warning... "want some candy little boy?"

 

The people who were inherently good before the cult got them will usually break away. True nasty people will stay and become huge fundies.

 

I'd like to think that I've always been inherently good even though I grew up in the church. =) I was always inclined to love people for their own sake and not to "win souls" or whatever. Even got in an argument with my grandma once because I just wanted to hang out with some friends for the evening and she thought I should take the opportunity to witness to them all. Probably should have kept my mouth shut, but whatever. Just that whole idea made me angry. "Loving" with an agenda. -puke-

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Based upon information that you have shared it appears that he has taken your leaving religion personally. He seems to have tied your compassion for him when he was literally hurting as being because of religion and not because it is who you are. Because of this, he seems unable to separate the person from the religion. He seems to think that without religion people can't be who they were. They must be different and of course different is bad.

 

Hammer. Nail. Head. Dead on right. This might be the greatest misconception xians have and the one that makes me most sad because it means that they are also devaluing themselves.

 

I was gonna comment on this as well. I really like how you put that, Stryper. It seems to be the case for a lot of the Christians so many of us were friends with. That lack of realizing that only our beliefs have changed, not the people we really are. It makes me question if they really are who they present themselves as. Are they really that good? That nice? Or is it just the religion?

 

In my personal experience, many of them are really angry people who just want to shove rules on other people but never follow rules themselves. Although I have actually met some nice xians, I have unfortunately met way too many mean nasty evil people.

 

Most atheists don't believe in evil because it is a xian concept, I am an exception to that rule, I think most xians personify evil. All that "show the jesus love" is nothing more than sugar laced with asbestos, arsenic and cyanide. It just reminds me of the big warning... "want some candy little boy?"

 

The people who were inherently good before the cult got them will usually break away. True nasty people will stay and become huge fundies.

 

I'd like to think that I've always been inherently good even though I grew up in the church. =) I was always inclined to love people for their own sake and not to "win souls" or whatever. Even got in an argument with my grandma once because I just wanted to hang out with some friends for the evening and she thought I should take the opportunity to witness to them all. Probably should have kept my mouth shut, but whatever. Just that whole idea made me angry. "Loving" with an agenda. -puke-

 

You can always tell a good person because they put the "religion" aside. It makes you suddenly question why they are a part of the religion. And they usually leave the religion forever. But the bad people who only do "good" because their religion requires them too are very obvious, they constantly make you feel bad when they are doing something nice for you. They expect something in return and act as though you should worship them for doing something so small.

 

Truly good people just help. I think everyone here is in the good realm. I actually have a few good xians that I am waiting for the light of disbelief to shine on. :)

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The people who were inherently good before the cult got them will usually break away. True nasty people will stay and become huge fundies.

 

QFT. That was amazingly profound. Thank you.

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