My Ex Wants Money

[raoul]

Feel free to join in the bashing Merry. Heck ma'am, you don't have a clue who I am. But, I am like a few here, 'outliers" who are eventually run off becuase of you "rational" do-gooders. It would seem that these people are the one's Jesus talked about....

 

But go ahead ma'am, join the gang if it makes you feel better and that you "belong".

Oh dear, I forgot the insipid 'martyr's complex' when I did my psychological spanking of you before. LOL

Poor little ole me, being beaten up by all of those nasty apostates..boo hoo.. But need I remind you - who started with the ad hominems in the first place? LOL

[GardenerGal]

I wondered why it was in the Lion's Den too. But in retrospect, I'm glad you put in the Lion's Den. It gave End another chance to show his true colors.

 

Yep. I'm a n00b. I came here in part because I was weary-unto-death of hearing the same old foggy Christian arguments. I felt the need to be surrounded by rational people who had escaped, or where in the process of escaping it all. I rarely venture into the Lion's Den or the other "let's argue theology" forums. But when I do, end3 is right there to remind me exactly what "Christian goodness" is really all about. It's a very useful service.

 

Feel free to join in the bashing Merry. Heck ma'am, you don't have a clue who I am. But, I am like a few here, 'outliers" who are eventually run off becuase of you "rational" do-gooders. It would seem that these people are the one's Jesus talked about....

 

But go ahead ma'am, join the gang if it makes you feel better and that you "belong".

 

You really think we would want to be like you????

 

Depends how you see me.

 

I see you as someone who hides behind religion to be mean-spirited. Obviously, there are good sides to you too, as we all have them, but you choose to most often show the hypocrisy of your faith, by entering an exchristian forum and spewing your meanness on those of us who are all too familiar with where you are coming from.

[CDFree]

I wondered why it was in the Lion's Den too. But in retrospect, I'm glad you put in the Lion's Den. It gave End another chance to show his true colors.

 

Yep. I'm a n00b. I came here in part because I was weary-unto-death of hearing the same old foggy Christian arguments. I felt the need to be surrounded by rational people who had escaped, or where in the process of escaping it all. I rarely venture into the Lion's Den or the other "let's argue theology" forums. But when I do, end3 is right there to remind me exactly what "Christian goodness" is really all about. It's a very useful service.

 

Feel free to join in the bashing Merry. Heck ma'am, you don't have a clue who I am. But, I am like a few here, 'outliers" who are eventually run off becuase of you "rational" do-gooders. It would seem that these people are the one's Jesus talked about....

 

But go ahead ma'am, join the gang if it makes you feel better and that you "belong".

 

You really think we would want to be like you????

 

Depends how you see me.

 

I see you as someone I would never want to be like, I wasn't even like you when I was a member of the cult!

[Guest end3]

I see you as someone who hides behind religion to be mean-spirited. Obviously, there are good sides to you too, as we all have them, but you choose to most often show the hypocrisy of your faith, by entering an exchristian forum and spewing your meanness on those of us who are all too familiar with where you are coming from.

 

No, I was really mean spirited BEFORE religion. You do remember Christ talking about the lost right? Takes along time to get unlost...if ever.

[Guest end3]

I see you as someone I would never want to be like, I wasn't even like you when I was a member of the cult!

 

One vote no. Thx, got it.

[GardenerGal]

I see you as someone who hides behind religion to be mean-spirited. Obviously, there are good sides to you too, as we all have them, but you choose to most often show the hypocrisy of your faith, by entering an exchristian forum and spewing your meanness on those of us who are all too familiar with where you are coming from.

 

No, I was really mean spirited BEFORE religion. You do remember Christ talking about the lost right? Takes along time to get unlost...if ever.

 

I do remember Christ talking about the lost. If you were mean-spirited before religion, how have you become a new creature in christ?

[bornagainathiest]

I have just put end3 on my ignore list.

 

You can attack my arguments all you want. I'm actually very thick-skinned that way. However, I don't tolerate pointless ad hominems from anyone, especially someone that has never posted anything resembling a rational thought or a straight answer to simple questions.

 

And once again: go fuck yourself.

 

No, this is not only a Biblical concept, it's a natural one too......many parts contributing to the whole. But you sir, are too fucking stupid to understand. And obviously mymistake is too....making light of the principle. It's just facts. The rest is nonsense. Facts are what matter.

 

Facts are what matter, End?

 

Like all of the facts that contradict the book of Genesis?

Like all the facts that show humans evolving and not being made by God?

Like all the facts that contradict Noah's global flood?

And all of the facts that tell us the Bible is the flawed, stitched-together, embellished, inaccurate and unreliable words of men and not the word of God?

 

Do those facts matter too, End or would you just prefer to ignore them?

 

If so, why not adapt SilentKnight's flow chart for your own, personal use?

All it takes is one keystroke.

 

 

Just alter the 'Faith' side of the chart to read...

 

Start

.

.

.

Get an idea

.

.

.

Ignore contradicting evidence

.

.

.

Keep idea forever

.

.

.

End3

[Thought2Much]

You forgot a step, BAA. It comes right after "Keep Idea Forever":

 

"Insult anyone who disagrees with you."

[mymistake]

So yeah, I have a little disdain for people laughing and hoping these type efforts dry up.

 

To acknowlege the opposition.....I do think there are churches that spend way to much on their own facilities and people.

 

End I have expressed zero negativity for your chuch. I was talking about my ex-Church, which is probably a different denomination altogether. From your description it sounds like your chuch would fit inside my ex's youth department with pleantly of room to spare. Why are you so mad at me on this point? I just shared that I am not going to support my ex-Chruch anymore. They didn't listen to good advise. They didn't make wise decisions. And most of their charity work is in the "Building more churches" catagory.

 

Can the thousand of people who still attend there do more collective good than I can? Sure but there are a thousand of them. Of course if God doesn't get them all out of this hole there might come a time when I can compete. Don't you find it strange that God lets them blunder and suffer the same disasters as any other organization including "false" religions?

[mymistake]

Feel free to join in the bashing Merry. Heck ma'am, you don't have a clue who I am. But, I am like a few here, 'outliers" who are eventually run off becuase of you "rational" do-gooders. It would seem that these people are the one's Jesus talked about....

 

But go ahead ma'am, join the gang if it makes you feel better and that you "belong".

 

End you entered this thread rude and insulting. It's how you enter many threads. Insults are what you do when you can't explain your ideas or make them sound believable. You don't have to be rude. If you didn't start these fights many of them wouldn't happen.

 

So why do you start fights?

[3DollarBill]

But all in all, I would guess about 40% of the budget goes to

 

You again completely avoided the question you are so clearly embarrassed to answer because you know it would make your previous assertion appear foolish. But let's go with your 40%... The Better Business Bureau considers 65% to be an acceptable figure. 40% earns you a spot on charity watchdog lists. You churchies are pathetic. Do some actual good in the world and quit swallowing the bullshit.

[Guest end3]

So yeah, I have a little disdain for people laughing and hoping these type efforts dry up.

 

To acknowlege the opposition.....I do think there are churches that spend way to much on their own facilities and people.

 

End I have expressed zero negativity for your chuch. I was talking about my ex-Church, which is probably a different denomination altogether. From your description it sounds like your chuch would fit inside my ex's youth department with pleantly of room to spare. Why are you so mad at me on this point? I just shared that I am not going to support my ex-Chruch anymore. They didn't listen to good advise. They didn't make wise decisions. And most of their charity work is in the "Building more churches" catagory.

 

Can the thousand of people who still attend there do more collective good than I can? Sure but there are a thousand of them. Of course if God doesn't get them all out of this hole there might come a time when I can compete. Don't you find it strange that God lets them blunder and suffer the same disasters as any other organization including "false" religions?

 

To the bolded. This is what I expressed in my opinion. And it appears we are in agreement. So why do you all find it necessary in this new non-belief to beat on people? I realize that Christianity has hurt many in many ways and I expect it takes time to recover, but you need to understand the same thing happens in the other direction, that the "world" has done harm to people and belief is the way THEY recover. I just find it ironic that the hurt people here can't see that. If we were truely "new", I think we would be above this. Some people can do it. I can choose to do it, but often choose a methodology of meanness instead of love to point this stuff out.....my personal thorn.

 

And to add, the divide usually correlates with right/left political views.....which mix about like oil and water.

 

The take home message to me is there are good and bad aspects to both sides. The disagreement comes in execution.....so where is the best of both and how do we get there?

[Guest end3]

But all in all, I would guess about 40% of the budget goes to

 

You again completely avoided the question you are so clearly embarrassed to answer because you know it would make your previous assertion appear foolish. But let's go with your 40%... The Better Business Bureau considers 65% to be an acceptable figure. 40% earns you a spot on charity watchdog lists. You churchies are pathetic. Do some actual good in the world and quit swallowing the bullshit.

 

I avoided it on purpose....on top of that, I can't give you the specific numbers jackwad. 10% out of 100 people might be the ones giving...I don't know. It was a stupid quiestion on your part to think you could do easy math on this.....which you could if we had the facts.

[mymistake]

So yeah, I have a little disdain for people laughing and hoping these type efforts dry up.

 

To acknowlege the opposition.....I do think there are churches that spend way to much on their own facilities and people.

 

End I have expressed zero negativity for your chuch. I was talking about my ex-Church, which is probably a different denomination altogether. From your description it sounds like your chuch would fit inside my ex's youth department with pleantly of room to spare. Why are you so mad at me on this point? I just shared that I am not going to support my ex-Chruch anymore. They didn't listen to good advise. They didn't make wise decisions. And most of their charity work is in the "Building more churches" catagory.

 

Can the thousand of people who still attend there do more collective good than I can? Sure but there are a thousand of them. Of course if God doesn't get them all out of this hole there might come a time when I can compete. Don't you find it strange that God lets them blunder and suffer the same disasters as any other organization including "false" religions?

 

To the bolded. This is what I expressed in my opinion. And it appears we are in agreement. So why do you all find it necessary in this new non-belief to beat on people? I realize that Christianity has hurt many in many ways and I expect it takes time to recover, but you need to understand the same thing happens in the other direction, that the "world" has done harm to people and belief is the way THEY recover. I just find it ironic that the hurt people here can't see that. If we were truely "new", I think we would be above this. Some people can do it. I can choose to do it, but often choose a methodology of meanness instead of love to point this stuff out.....my personal thorn.

 

And to add, the divide usually correlates with right/left political views.....which mix about like oil and water.

 

The take home message to me is there are good and bad aspects to both sides. The disagreement comes in execution.....so where is the best of both and how do we get there?

 

I would find it very strange if any random stranger and I could not agree that I am not a thousand people. Okay you also can agree that I am not a thousand people. I don't know why you would have brought that up.

 

I do not find it necissary to beat on people. Any more loaded quesitons?

 

The "world" is not an organization. I have witnessed other ex-Christians comment on how religion is a crutch so they have definitaly seen that.

 

I don't understand your question regarind good and bad aspects of both sides. Maybe consider that the political extreems are ususally wrong. I don't see how we got into politics.

[Guest end3]

I would find it very strange if any random stranger and I could not agree that I am not a thousand people. Okay you also can agree that I am not a thousand people. I don't know why you would have brought that up.

I'm pretty sure it's fair to say none of us has the answers. So why choose which group is appropriate to execute the good? And I don't see giving to an organization on an individual basis as it is if a group "aims" their resources towards that effort. For example....barn raisings. Christmas in April, and on and on.

 

 

I don't understand your question regarind good and bad aspects of both sides. Maybe consider that the political extreems are ususally wrong. I don't see how we got into politics.

 

Let's take charity.....I doubt anyone has trouble saying helping is the right thing to do.yet there is forced welfare vs pull yourself up by your bootstraps approach. That's what I am saying....both think it good and necessary but agreeing on the method to exact this is the problem IMO.....belief, non belief, right wing, left wing, etc.

[Guest end3]

Sorry MM.....I re-read.....put in "as effective" in that first line ....essentially a group is more effective than a single indiviual

[mymistake]

I would find it very strange if any random stranger and I could not agree that I am not a thousand people. Okay you also can agree that I am not a thousand people. I don't know why you would have brought that up.

I'm pretty sure it's fair to say none of us has the answers. So why choose which group is appropriate to execute the good? And I don't see giving to an organization on an individual basis as it is if a group "aims" their resources towards that effort. For example....barn raisings. Christmas in April, and on and on.

 

I don't understand. Charaties can be rated on efficiency and charities can try to hide their performance.

 

 

I don't understand your question regarind good and bad aspects of both sides. Maybe consider that the political extreems are ususally wrong. I don't see how we got into politics.

 

Let's take charity.....I doubt anyone has trouble saying helping is the right thing to do.yet there is forced welfare vs pull yourself up by your bootstraps approach. That's what I am saying....both think it good and necessary but agreeing on the method to exact this is the problem IMO.....belief, non belief, right wing, left wing, etc.

 

I don't consider government programs to be true charity because government stinks at efficency. Never the less some government programs are needed if no effecent, private charity will fill the need.

[CDFree]

End, you want to convert us to Christianity and yet you are downright rude to us, go figure???????

[London]

We support our local food bank, we feed "across the tracks" kids every Wednesday night and also support African and South American missionaries.

I find this rude that people think their little spare change is going to convert these nations and actually make their standards of living better. The governments of those countries need to make things better for their citizens. Religion gets so pius thinking it's solving their problems. Fix the shit in this country first.

 

Feel free to join in the bashing Merry. Heck ma'am, you don't have a clue who I am. But, I am like a few here, 'outliers" who are eventually run off becuase of you "rational" do-gooders. It would seem that these people are the one's Jesus talked about....

 

But go ahead ma'am, join the gang if it makes you feel better and that you "belong".

 

Sorry end, you don't get to claim "victim" here. You are a part of the cult we all left. When you become an Ex-C like all of us and people treat you bad we will be there to defend you. But coming in here being a jerk and then claiming "victim" is a typical christard trick. Get down off that cross end we need the wood!

 

 

To the bolded. This is what I expressed in my opinion. And it appears we are in agreement. So why do you all find it necessary in this new non-belief to beat on people? I realize that Christianity has hurt many in many ways and I expect it takes time to recover, but you need to understand the same thing happens in the other direction, that the "world" has done harm to people and belief is the way THEY recover. I just find it ironic that the hurt people here can't see that. If we were truely "new", I think we would be above this. Some people can do it. I can choose to do it, but often choose a methodology of meanness instead of love to point this stuff out.....my personal thorn.

 

And to add, the divide usually correlates with right/left political views.....which mix about like oil and water.

 

The take home message to me is there are good and bad aspects to both sides. The disagreement comes in execution.....so where is the best of both and how do we get there?

 

You really mean 'beat on xians', that's clearly how this thread is going. You have been here long enough end to know that most people who come here are DECONVERTING. They are in transition from various levels of pain from xianity. If you have not learned that by now you never will.

 

If you 'can choose' to be nice then maybe you need to make that the rule not the exception. I personally think (as mentioned before) that you are playing the victim here. Be an ass and people will treat you like an ass. If your life sucks don't come here and start shit just to get attention, have a conversation like a human.

 

And to the bolded part... it speaks volumes to me about your pending deconversion.

 

I avoided it on purpose....on top of that, I can't give you the specific numbers jackwad. 10% out of 100 people might be the ones giving...I don't know. It was a stupid quiestion on your part to think you could do easy math on this.....which you could if we had the facts.

Ahhh... the christian love in this alone...

 

Let's take charity.....I doubt anyone has trouble saying helping is the right thing to do.yet there is forced welfare vs pull yourself up by your bootstraps approach. That's what I am saying....both think it good and necessary but agreeing on the method to exact this is the problem IMO.....belief, non belief, right wing, left wing, etc.

 

You know comments like this really bother me, everyone starts to try and connect "being good" with some higher purpose and frankly it is bullshit spoken by anyone. Humans do not need a reason to be good. We don't need a church or government or a system of beliefs to be good humans. All we need to do is see someone in pain to activate our human compassion. It's built in to the DNA. A child cries, you comfort it, someone asks for food, you feed them.

 

We don't need to make huge political organizations that spend 75% of the donations on administrative costs. Religion has yet to prove it is actually helping the Earth. Perhaps all the money spent printing and selling bibles could be better used for housing, food and education. People don't need a god, they need shelter, food, education so they can help themselves in the long run. Religion gives a false hope. People need people.

 

Good is something we don't need to be told to do, it's a choice we make on our own. We know when to be a good person, just like you knew not to be an ass in this thread.

 

Stop being an angry xian end and deconvert already.

[3DollarBill]

I avoided it on purpose....on top of that, I can't give you the specific numbers jackwad. 10% out of 100 people might be the ones giving...I don't know. It was a stupid quiestion on your part to think you could do easy math on this.....which you could if we had the facts.

 

You avoided it on purpose because you don't want us to know the answer. Your "small" church probably has at least 100 in attendance every Sunday. So the mean contribution to the "food bank" is $5. Big fucking deal. You pretend you're all doing good in the world when in reality all you do is spend a massive amount on facilities, salaries, etc and the rest...the rest you spend spreading your garbage philosophy.

 

You never answered my other fucking question...Does your "food bank" feed the hungry without proselytizing? I bet no. Because that's the real point, isn't it? I mean, why feed the poor if you can't "spread the good news" while you're at it? Let me make something perfectly clear: You, and your little band of do-gooders, are preying on the weak and helpless. And you get in the way of actual charities.

 

And for some reason you think you're time spent here is going to do you any good. Fuck off...I'm sure there's some weak-minded people on another forum who would actually buy into your bullshit.

[Akheia]

That poor man. Seriously, he is truly and really the most mean-spirited, hate-filled person I've encountered recently--so mean and hateful that there's no other religion he could possibly hold other than Christianity. If he thinks he's not "as" mean-spirited as he was before whatever fuzzy conversion experience he had, oh, he is so wrong. He uses religion to justify hatred and cruelty toward others. This board is where he can come and really let that hatred and ignorance flow and fester. I can't even imagine being that awful of a human being. If that kind of bully and abuser gets into heaven, I'm very glad to not be going there. It gives me the chills just imagining seeing him in RL; the idea that any deity at all might consider him acceptable company for eternity is horrifying.

 

I also share the conviction, having been the wife of a minister and good friends with several pastors' families, that churches don't do *NEARLY* as much good as they say they do. A dollar given to a church doesn't go much toward non-church-related matters. If some church somewhere managed $500/month for a food bank, I wonder what sort of percentage of its intake that translated to. In short, I'd rather give to a secular charity that won't waste the money on talking to imaginary friends. Thankfully, there are a vast number of them to choose from; this is not Tudor England, where the closing of monasteries and abbeys meant that thousands of poor people starved or became homeless. Another church that slides into irrelevancy means another hotspot of ignorance and hate (like End himself) fades out of our cultural tapestry.

[Akheia]

FINALLY! Found this interesting look at religious vs. non-religious charity.

[jblueep]

I will speak from personal experience only. As a leader in multiple churches, and officially the (financial) administrator of two of them, very, very little (as a percentage of income) truly goes to charity. Most of the income goes to salaries and building expenses (mortgages and maintenance).

 

Rarely did these churches give to strangers. If you were in the church and faced tough times, you may get modest help once or twice, assuming you had previously tithed or were close to someone important or influential in the church. If you were new or not part of the "in crowd", good luck.

 

Most of the "missions" giving was to other churches/organizations that in turn spend most of their money on salaries and buildings. Giving to a church is probably the most inefficient way to express charity.

[mcdaddy]

Oh, and I have been in the room when people have called up the church office to ask for help getting food, and heard the pastors tell them to come to a service first, and then they would talk.

 

Yeah, those verses about feeding and clothing "the least of these" were never to be taken literally, I guess. I mean, they were just something that Jesus said, and all.

 

You don't strike me as too bright. Look, even in our small church after bills, we manage 500 bucks to our small food bank per month. So do you cut at 500 per month check by yourself? I highly doubt it. 6000 bucks a year to feed those that can't do it themselves. And we pray too. And captain, I highly doubt that if you had the cash, you would cut the check. But that's ok, your new belief allows you to be selfish....and be ok with it.

 

500 bones a month? From the WHOLE CONGREGATION? what's that amount to, a dollar a month per person? Whoooooooooooo how generous.

[oddbird1963]

 

500 bones a month? From the WHOLE CONGREGATION? what's that amount to, a dollar a month per person? Whoooooooooooo how generous.

 

Something like 20% (or less) of the congregants do something like 80% of the giving. I suspect these people would find a cause to give to anyway if they didn't have a church to give to. The bogus assumption one previous poster threw up (that atheists won't give if they don't have to , or something) is bollocks.