silentknight Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I had an argument with a muslim man, whom i actually like, about the hijab. he said, "it's because we respect women that the hijab is good, it is for their protection. You are showing her you value her. Your wife is like a diamond and the hijab protects her like you would protect anything precious". *sigh* Even that attempt to make it "ok" is a problem in and of itself. This statement treats women as property. He's basically saying "I have the right to guard my property from those that might covet it, and the fact that I'm worrying about someone else coveting it is a compliment" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I am a woman, and my deconversion was the result of a four-year intellectual and academic study of world religions and philosophy. Maybe more women deconvert for emotional reasons, but I suspect it depends more on experiences and the type of literature one reads. I am sure some men deconvert for emotional reasons too. I hate it when people claim things to try and drive a wedge between the sexes like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 But it's so obvious that the hijab DOESN'T protect a woman from the violence of the men around her. Only the most blithering of idiots could think something so ridiculously and obviously untrue, even aside from how offensive it is that he'd blame a victim like that (because let's face it... the flipside of what he said is that if a woman gets hurt or abused, clearly it was because she wasn't under some asshat's protection and wearing her armor!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I am a woman, and my deconversion was the result of a four-year intellectual and academic study of world religions and philosophy. Maybe more women deconvert for emotional reasons, but I suspect it depends more on experiences and the type of literature one reads. I am sure some men deconvert for emotional reasons too. I hate it when people claim things to try and drive a wedge between the sexes like that. Agreed. I don't really mind when people say "most", but often people extrapolate that in their mind to be "all". We all have to see each other as equals in all respects and appreciate a person for who they are. Not their sex, or race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I want to add that my emotions made me cling to a Christian-ish God longer than I would have otherwise. All that intellectual study (I have a goddamn degree in World Relgions and a minor in philosophy) pointed out the inconsistencies and mythical nature of the vast majority of the Bible, and any other world religion. I gained a great respect for other religions and I concluded that they are really all after the same thing, and that "thing" can be had in many forms without the belief in a anthropomorphic God. I didn't want to give up God because God gave me comfort. Although I was conservative in my younger years, by the time I was in high school I had a decidedly more progressive and liberal version of Christianity than my peers. It was the cause of much concern for my friends. Little by little, I let go of each of the major beliefs of Christianity until what I believed could only fit into a Unitarian church. In the end, I just decided to leave religion completely and form my own path that includes no woo or personified Gods. It was too much work to create meaning out of myths when I could just get to the point without the bullshit. That was a really painful process. My understanding and study of psychology helped me out a lot in this regard. My ex-husband left because of evolution. He was a Creationist and once he decided Genesis wasn't literally true, he dropped the rest fairly quickly. He also cited the suffering in the world and such as reasons, and I suspect his deconversion was based on more emotional things than mine. During the beginning of the Iraq war, we sang "Onward Christian Soldiers" in church one day. He left in a rage. My current fiance wasn't raised in a church and never believed in the Christian God, or any God. In his 20s, he then through a Tarot-reading and pendulum pagan phase, which he did just to amuse his ex-wife (he has a bit of an ego, LOL). His ex thought they were both psychic, and even though he didn't agree, he played along for fun. As a result, he isn't very "spiritual" but he doesn't have all the baggage that those of who truly believed have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzarza Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Lady here. I was indoctrinated young, and attended a fundie christian high school. I think avoiding emotional responses are actually what took me so long to deconvert in college. I knew all of the theological loopholes and justifications for doctrine, and I was able to logically justify why I was a Christian. I thought that deconverting for emotional reasons would be irresponsible/lazy. What changed my mind was realizing platonically, over time, how scripted, emotionally manipulative, and unsatisfying everything was while I tried to pursue Christianity in college. I tried to hold on a lot longer than I'd care to admit. It was hard to admit to myself that I, and everyone I grew up with, could be so wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Was just thinking about this not long ago. Remember the Stepford families? Some people seem to do so well with scripts for their lives. But then something happens to throw the script out of whack--it bangs up against the messy reality of modern life--it knocks up against the truth of women's (especially women's) needs and desires--and the script screams out to be followed despite all of it. Some women can bottle those needs and desires, those fundamental achings for equality and fairness. Many however cannot. I'm a woman, so I see the struggle in terms of my own disappointments with the unfairness of Christianity, but there are plenty of men who try to live their lives according to the script and then discover only too late that even if they follow all the "rules," their wives might be the ones to wake up and want to change course. You never know who's going to wake up or when, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortCakeSlayer Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Okay before we dive in . . . Bad: If you are a woman then you X Good: Studies comparing one population with another found a trend X. This. Also, I deconverted because it simply didn't seem to be historically accurate once I became educated enough in it's origins. I don't necessarily have a problem with someone ascribing to a certain religion because it makes their life easier, and most religious people that I get along well with seem to have an understanding of what their spirituality is to them and it's place in their lives. It's a personal practice, something intimate that's theirs. Once someone starts claiming that it's "fact" is where I start seeing them run into problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMDKitty Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 "I was listening to a podcast today and a guest psychologist suggested that most women come to atheism as a result of moral inconsistencies. Ex. god killing babies so they don't want to worship a tyrant." Pffft, right, because our fluffy pink ladybrainz can only comprehend emotion, and a woman could never reason her way to atheism! Why, that "logic" stuff is only for menz! </sarcasm> Plenty of men don't want to worship a tyrant, either. And no, for me, it had nothing to do with "oh, noez, gawd killt babbies, how horrible!" I came out of Christianity because of the inherent sexism in the religion. I refuse to submit quietly like a "good girl" should. And I abso-fucking-lutely WILL NOT ALLOW others to control me. Not again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Pffft, right, because our fluffy pink ladybrainz can only comprehend emotion, and a woman could never reason her way to atheism! Why, that "logic" stuff is only for menz! Bwaahaahaahaa! Love it! Anyway, isn't a moral inconsistency also a logical problem when the teachings posit that god is perfect and god is love? I "came to atheism" because I finally accepted that none of it made sense and I could no longer twist my brain in a way to make it seem reasonable. Then I was annoyed that I allowed myself to twist my brain around it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 Morality issues weren't the reason I became atheist, but it was one of the first reasons I began to doubt. I became an atheist after basically realizing that all the "experiences" people have had in Christianity that they dubbed as proof have happened to people with other religions as well as people with no religion. In addition, I learned more about how the human brain works and the kind of tricks religion uses to try and reel you in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The moral inconsistencies such as you describe got me started. I quit b/c an Xian said that the main reason god died for us was to glorify himself, which is backed up by his self-obsession in the bible: he goes on for pages about his greatness while Job is mostly dead from a skin disease and all his children have been killed. He orders that people stone their own families if they catch them worshiping another god. He reminds people "I am the lord your god" every time he makes a new law. He is abnormally jealous and even admits it: "I the lord am a jealous god." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 "I was listening to a podcast today and a guest psychologist suggested that most women come to atheism as a result of moral inconsistencies. Ex. god killing babies so they don't want to worship a tyrant." Pffft, right, because our fluffy pink ladybrainz can only comprehend emotion, and a woman could never reason her way to atheism! Why, that "logic" stuff is only for menz! </sarcasm> Plenty of men don't want to worship a tyrant, either. And no, for me, it had nothing to do with "oh, noez, gawd killt babbies, how horrible!" I came out of Christianity because of the inherent sexism in the religion. I refuse to submit quietly like a "good girl" should. And I abso-fucking-lutely WILL NOT ALLOW others to control me. Not again. Yay! My emancipation started with Ephesians 5:22-24. Of course they said without a leader marriages and homes would fall apart. It never occurred to me to tell them that decision-making/leadership skills are determined by personality, not gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Men become atheists because they're attracted to the dark side. Men, having control, know what they're doing, and hence, we know they just want to worship Satan. Women on the other hand, are damsels in distress, fooled by those men, not really knowing what to do, become atheists out of their inability to reason. They need to be saved by Jesus more than anybody. They're just confused. I'm sorry, but that's just how the title and the reasoning given came acrossed. It's kind of funny, stereotypical, and sexist all wrapped into one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Men become atheists because they're attracted to the dark side. Men, having control, know what they're doing, and hence, we know they just want to worship Satan. Women on the other hand, are damsels in distress, fooled by those men, not really knowing what to do, become atheists out of their inability to reason. They need to be saved by Jesus more than anybody. They're just confused. I'm sorry, but that's just how the title and the reasoning given came acrossed. It's kind of funny, stereotypical, and sexist all wrapped into one. The title is just a title but the OP is supposed to clarify. I'm surprised so many people have jumped in to claim stereotyping when I felt I did a reasonable job explaining the why i chose the title in the OP. I guess the broad, general title stops people from reading any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Nor I. I've just seen threads like this get derailed because down the road there is confusion. I just wanted to cover that before it came up. Wow you called it early on. At this point it seems people are just jumping in to comment on the title since the original post has been buried under a mound of post about how offensive, divisive, and stereotypical the question is. I guess it just human nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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