Libertarian Atheists

[Geezer]

I've got a few questions, and I figured this would be a good place to ask people. I've only been an atheist for about three years. And, mostly I'm not really political. As a christian I didn't really fall into the Republican side of the fence. There's a lot with social programs I don't really agree with either, and that's kept me from the Dems. Within the past year, I've been thinking I might be more of a Libertarian. From what I can tell it's sort of a live and let live policy. Earn your way in life, and the government shouldn't get involved in your personal business. Sounds reasonable to me. Of course, I'm sort of a Dem sympathizer, so some social programs are necessary. I just feel there needs to be a little balance between what the government should provide, and what you should be expected to provide for yourself. I listen to a lot of podcasts at work, and mostly on Reasonable Doubts and the Non-prophets they really seem to very anti-Libertarian, for what seems to me both philosophical reasons as well as political reasons. Does anyone on here really know what the contention seems to be about? I'm sure there's more about this anti-Libertarianism that pops up on my Atheist podcasts that I have no idea about. I'm relatively new to both atheism and Libertarianism.

 

 

Libertarianism, IMO, is unworkable for lots of reasons. Libertarians, IMO, are kind of like political conservatives on steroids. IMO, pure capitalism can be cruel and grossly unjust. Pure socialism has a tendency to destroy initiative, create class envy, and like capitalism it also produces winners and losers. Ultimately, out of control socialism will financially destroy a country. Somebody has to produce goods and services and ultimately a profit to pay for the social programs.

 

No profit = no jobs = no taxes = a bankrupt country with widespread civil unrest and ultimately anarchy.

 

It seems to me that a combination of both has worked well for the United States. It is clear that even conservatives like some of the social programs. There is no such thing as a perfect political system. They all have inherent flaws that produce unintended consequences. And both systems seem to produce widespread corruption in government. Every election is a roll of the dice and one day we're going to roll snake eyes. It's only a matter of when not if.

 

Our Achilles heel has long been recognized as our vulnerability to the electorate’s ability to vote themselves money and benefits. With 47% of the work force not paying taxes we are getting dangerously close to an epic financial collapse. It may sound benevolent to exempt 47% of the work force from paying taxes but that will ultimately prove to have a disastrous financial consequence. The answer is obviously to get a significant portion of that 47% employed with an adequate income and capitalism is the only system we have that will do that.

 

Capitalism puts money into the coffers whereas socialism takes it out. Socialism only works if there is money in the coffers and somebody has to put the money in there. Pure libertarianism isn’t overly concerned about anyone but themselves. Therefore, I cast my vote for them to get off the island.

[BMandeville]

The electorate's "ability to vote themselves money and benefits" is a direct result of capitalism and consumer culture. When a society worships wealth and lives by the truth that the consumer is always right, that mindset bleeds over into politics. The voter becomes a customer, and the politician becomes a marketing executive. That's why we see such dependence and gullibility among the electorate today. "Citizens United" was an effective corporate takeover of the American political system. Libertarianism is a nice ideal, but these days it's presented as populusim while thinly veiling an agenda of corporate empowerment bent on transferring public money into private hands.

 

It is not true that 47 percent of Americans don't pay taxes. That's Koch brothers nonsense and propaganda. It's true that 47 percent of Americans don't make enough to pay income taxes, but income taxes make up a relatively small proportion of the overall tax pool. Everyone, regardless of income, pays fuel taxes, sales tax, and payroll taxes, which account for the majority of tax revenue along with corporate taxes. The 47 percent myth is corporate propaganda purposefully sown to delegitimize any form of government, which they see as a hinderance to their endless quest for profit. It's corporatism masquerading as populism, and some Americans have bought into it and sold the founding principles of this country down the river.