Gamecock1973 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 A few months ago I came out of the closet to the entirety of my family and friends and declared my unbelief in Jesus and the Bible (on Facebook). I live abroad and went home to meet the onslaught of my hard-core evangelical past this summer. All in all, they were pretty respectful, although an old college roommate of mine who is a bible teacher at Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte slipped me a copy of "I Don't Have Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek. Hand-signed by Norm Geisler himself, letting me know Norm himself was praying for me! Woo Hoo! I had told my old college roomie I was open to believing in Jesus if i ever saw any evidence for the the truth of the Bible or the existence of the Biblical god. This is true, however I didn't tell him that I was so convinced that it would probably take a literal angelic appearance or some other undeniable manifestation of god to get me to reconsider. So anyway, in good faith (hehe), I promised to read the book. He assured me these were the best arguments for Christianity, that these guys were really mental heavyweights, and when i read them I would be convinced... Has anyone read this book? I went through the whole thing in the following 2 days, actually hoping for some convincing arguments. What a disappointment. And I'd forgotten how lightweight one has to be to be considered "deep" and "intellectual" in the Christian world. The whole book is essentially written to the Christian on how they can win verbal arguments with clever word play which the atheist is unprepared to answer on the spot. It doesn't matter that the logic doesn't hold up upon further examination, just that the Christian can get a "zinger" in and impress all onlookers. Supposedly such tricks have been so powerful as to convert many atheists overnight. Essentially, the big argument is the ol' "do you believe in ultimate truth" gig. Essentially if an atheist says he doesn't believe in ultimate truth, his unbelief shows he DOES believe in it! ZINGER! Somehow this infantile logic somehow builds the foundation that magically morphs into Jesus is the god of the universe and the Bible is infallible and you must repent and believe now! Huh? Anyway, I say it is written to the Christian and NOT to an atheist, because the entire introduction basically insults atheists as selfish idiots, and proceeds to assume that every atheist has deserted god because of their desire to live a sinful lifestyle. It makes me wonder if these "experts" have actually ever talked to a real atheist who has left Christianity! What follows is straw man argument after straw man argument (which started to anger me with its dis-ingenuousness). They constantly set up and pulled down feeble atheist arguments which no intelligent atheist would ever make! As well, the dishonesty about the Bible was palpable. They simply glossed over the very human problems with the creation of the canon, and then proved the Bible was true because the Bible said it was true! Haha. But they were clever in their wording, saying such and such a document confirmed books of the Bible (such as the "document" of Acts confirmed the gospel of Luke), Ugh!. And that historical places named in the Bible which were confirmed by external sources somehow confirmed the New Testament as being historically true...and thus also probably proved true as the WORD OF GOD as well! In the same way that Tom Clancy identifies Moscow, Washington D.C., Paris, Omaha, and Los Angeles as verifiably true locations, therefore his novel MUST BE FACTUALLY TRUE! As someone who came out of the faith simply through my study of the Bible, without reading a bunch of apologetics, it was simply astounding how ridiculous the arguments are by the christian "experts" propping up their beliefs. I just can't believe the anti-logical circles one has to run in to defend god, and how many intelligent people will just nod their heads in assent and say, "yes, that is true!" Scary, scary, scary, and sad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentknight Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 It sounds like "The Reason for God". A book I've been trying to read but keep get frustrated at because it says the same kind of things. It distorts the atheist arguments into parodies of the real arguments and refutes even those parodies poorly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'd wondered where all these fundies are getting that entire "I don't have enough faith" horseshit from. I had thought it was from Ray Comfort, but really, I don't think either of them has ever talked to an actual non-believer about anything and really listened to anything that was said. Thanks for the review. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Apologetics are to keep the deaf and dumb sheep in the flock, nothing else. the end. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If one of my friends of family were to give me such a book I would critique it in the margins and then give it back to them once all the flaws had been clearly marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 But they were clever in their wording, saying such and such a document confirmed books of the Bible (such as the "document" of Acts confirmed the gospel of Luke), Ugh!. And that historical places named in the Bible which were confirmed by external sources somehow confirmed the New Testament as being historically true...and thus also probably proved true as the WORD OF GOD as well! In the same way that Tom Clancy identifies Moscow, Washington D.C., Paris, Omaha, and Los Angeles as verifiably true locations, therefore his novel MUST BE FACTUALLY TRUE! The Koran is the word of Allah because it says so in the Koran. Checkmate Christians!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 i read the book and it pushed me over the edge to atheism. when i say that I read it i actually read 60% of it. that portion convinced me that I was an athiest. they spend a lot of time convincing you of absolute truth and they set the stage for a knockout blow only to bring up weak crappy evidence that has already been debunked. Im glad Im not the only that read it. I still have it on kindle I may finish it thanks for reminding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 i read the book and it pushed me over the edge to atheism. when i say that I read it i actually read 60% of it. that portion convinced me that I was an athiest. they spend a lot of time convincing you of absolute truth and they set the stage for a knockout blow only to bring up weak crappy evidence that has already been debunked. Im glad Im not the only that read it. I still have it on kindle I may finish it thanks for reminding me. theres some dumbass website that parrots the same stupid fucking idea, i cant remember it though. ABSOLUTE TRUTH, THEREFORE CHRISTIAN GAWD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 i read the book and it pushed me over the edge to atheism. when i say that I read it i actually read 60% of it. that portion convinced me that I was an athiest. they spend a lot of time convincing you of absolute truth and they set the stage for a knockout blow only to bring up weak crappy evidence that has already been debunked. Im glad Im not the only that read it. I still have it on kindle I may finish it thanks for reminding me. theres some dumbass website that parrots the same stupid fucking idea, i cant remember it though. ABSOLUTE TRUTH, THEREFORE CHRISTIAN GAWD!!! yes. right on. They tear down religions right and left and convince you that all of them are not right. and they make a good point for it but they never apply that to their own bias. I applied what they lay out in the book to everything I dont stop at christianity. Had i not read that book I would probably be sitting on the fence still. Edit. I will add that I AM convinced of absolute truth for every person on in the universe. I think a spade is a spade no matter who you are. truth is thruth like it or not. Theres no god just because you feel that there is. you cant change anything with thoughts other than your own perception of what wont change. I dont buy absolute morals and probably never will. Morals are not black and white there are too many variable where that stance folds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I simply can't be bothered with that sort of thing any more. I read a Lee Strobel book at a friend's request, submitted to he my chapter-by-chapter demolition of it, and gave up arguing with Christians about atheism. They don't know anything about it, and they don't want to know anything about it. They just want to deny it exists and/or draw people away from it. People like it when other people believe the same stupid shit they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 My fundy mom gave it to me a few years ago when she learned I was an atheist. She seemed to think it would convince me to come back to Christianity. I "conveniently" lost the book when I moved a few months ago. Never did read it, I had more interesting and productive things to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 My fundy mom gave it to me a few years ago when she learned I was an atheist. She seemed to think it would convince me to come back to Christianity. I "conveniently" lost the book when I moved a few months ago. Never did read it, I had more interesting and productive things to do. I read it, and even worse, sent it to a non believer friend. Damn that was stupid. Even worse was te letter I sent accompanying it. SO embarrassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 People like it when other people believe the same stupid shit they do. Why xianity is still alive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaraOlive Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 I wrote this response to the first 8 chapters: https://luthieneponine.wordpress.com/review-geisler/ I never finished because I transitioned from an "ex-Christian" to a "non-theist/atheistic apatheist". In other words, I totally stopped caring and found it a waste of my time and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Reminds me of a book I read which told Xians that heathens have no idea what the bible is about. Ex "Ask an unbeliever what the bible's main point is, and he'll probably tell you that, well, anyone who is a good enough person can get into heaven." immediately assuming that none of us has a clue about Xianity, and also that the cult is so wonderful no one would ever want to leave it--no pagans were ever Xians. I love the assumption that they have a special, secret knowledge because Gawd has chosen them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrunner Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 As I went to buy this book at crossexamined.org frank turek has a video of him debating hitchens. I found myself siding with hitch and so was the slide into atheism. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I simply can't be bothered with that sort of thing any more. I read a Lee Strobel book at a friend's request, submitted to he my chapter-by-chapter demolition of it, and gave up arguing with Christians about atheism. They don't know anything about it, and they don't want to know anything about it. They just want to deny it exists and/or draw people away from it. People like it when other people believe the same stupid shit they do. My mom sent me a Strobel book once. It's the only time she's tried to interject anything into my deconversion. I gave it the old college try, but after filling the margins with notes on logical fallacies I gave up about 10-20 pages in. This stuff only convinces the already indoctrinated looking for straws to cling to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Reminds me of a book I read which told Xians that heathens have no idea what the bible is about. Ex "Ask an unbeliever what the bible's main point is, and he'll probably tell you that, well, anyone who is a good enough person can get into heaven." immediately assuming that none of us has a clue about Xianity, and also that the cult is so wonderful no one would ever want to leave it--no pagans were ever Xians. I love the assumption that they have a special, secret knowledge because Gawd has chosen them. What IS the right answer to that question? I can think of a lot of snarky answers that satisfy me greatly, but what are they actually thinking is the answer that the "heathens" won't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BendyLine Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 i read the book and it pushed me over the edge to atheism. when i say that I read it i actually read 60% of it. that portion convinced me that I was an athiest. they spend a lot of time convincing you of absolute truth and they set the stage for a knockout blow only to bring up weak crappy evidence that has already been debunked. Im glad Im not the only that read it. I still have it on kindle I may finish it thanks for reminding me. theres some dumbass website that parrots the same stupid fucking idea, i cant remember it though. ABSOLUTE TRUTH, THEREFORE CHRISTIAN GAWD!!! http://www.proofthatgodexists.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 i read the book and it pushed me over the edge to atheism. when i say that I read it i actually read 60% of it. that portion convinced me that I was an athiest. they spend a lot of time convincing you of absolute truth and they set the stage for a knockout blow only to bring up weak crappy evidence that has already been debunked. Im glad Im not the only that read it. I still have it on kindle I may finish it thanks for reminding me. theres some dumbass website that parrots the same stupid fucking idea, i cant remember it though. ABSOLUTE TRUTH, THEREFORE CHRISTIAN GAWD!!! http://www.proofthatgodexists.org Sitting at my desk at work, click the link, and literally say under my breath, "Oh fuck no" and close the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Someone needs to write a book called"I'm Not Mean Enough To Be A Christian." which details all the biblical atrocities, and all the other nastiness past and present day committed in "The Name of Jesus." I didn't become an ex-christian because I stopped believing in god(that came later), but because I could no longer stomach the idea of eternal damnation and a vengeful god. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 ... That book needs to be written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 ... That book needs to be written. Oh yes. Yes it does. (I think it would turn out great if you wrote it. Hell, you might even be able to sell it. The title alone would sell a lot of copies.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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