Popular Post Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2012 religion is evil... it's so evil I can hardly find words to describe it's vileness... My deconversion, if you will, seems to have gone in a spiral... in steps. For a very long time even after I rejected christianity I clung to my various conceptions of god, or whatever—fuck—I don't even know what to call it anymore. I've studied and practiced various forms of theism.. from pantheistic witchcraft to Rosicrucianism, to Pentecostal, to... well, let's just say I've been to a lot of different branches of this faith thing, always thinking, nay believing, deep down that somehow there must be a loving force and if so, I can find it... call it god for lack of a better descriptor. I'm a seeker... it's my nature... but what I really desired was truth.(still do) The truth is I'm an evolved and intelligent and MORAL being. I've always been this, even as a child—there isn't a time when I can remember being different... I wasn't raised in religion, and even at 6 or 7 I remember being concerned about others and CARING about the world. I was BORN THIS WAY. I've done a lot of reading, here and elsewhere, I've watched video's, studied history, science and well... done my best to be well-informed and use the reasoning abilities I was born with, and I'm fucking pissed off. Because I've come to the conclusion that religion is evil. It's evil and it exploits human nature and needs in the worst ways possible, It negates reason, morality and humanity. This is not even close to the rage I am experiencing...or the thousand reasons why and how I have come to this conclusion... and expressing it is hard. Just getting over the hurdle of not being 'tolerant' and 'understanding' and 'accepting of others views' is like climbing Mount Everest... being afraid to 'offend'..etc.. blah blah blah... fuck it all because this is a truism... "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. " - Edmund Burke I think about Victor Frankl's, "The Search for Meaning" and many other books I've read that illustrate the true nobility that humans are capable of and I can see that religion negates all of that—makes it worthless, and teaches that we are less than, NO, REQUIRES that people are less than they can be. How much more despicable than, "without god you can do nothing" can anything be? It devalues people, it devalues people and makes it possible for atrocity. Religion requires that we see ourselves and especially others as not worthy... of anything, much less compassion or kindness. If our own creator can't accept us as we are... And christians are upset to think we are related to chimpanzee's, because they believe it devalues them? Their own book devalues them—the entire concept makes us less worthy than any animal.. animals are innocent! But we are the scum of the earth, and by making us believe that we become so incredibly gullible that we will do ANYTHING to relieve that sense of vulnerability and worthlessness, whether that's believing lies, or killing others... anything. It's an untenable psychic state. Throw in a good dose of fear (but make us believe we deserve it) and that's it folks... wrap it up.. you just created a battered woman out the majority of the human race. FUCK THAT! and Religion REQUIRES violence. Seriously... what is more abhorrent than blood sacrifice of the blameless? It requires that we accept this concept as fucking holy? What the hell is holy about being joyful that innocent blood is shed to keep you from taking personal responsibility? The whole concept is... makes me nauseous. I can see now why the religious are so damn quick to be violent—it's ingrained in their very matrix of how they see reality. How can they be peaceful when their 'creator' in who's image they are, (think about it) is such a violent, bloodthirsty monster? And i don't give two flying fucks if it's fundamentalism or moderate belief because in the end it's the same damn thing... if you really don't believe the world and humanity is intrinsically worthy, or stand against religious batshit crazyness then you ENABLE the worst of you and you are culpable. Religion, by it's very nature, opens the way for people to exploit and abuse others. Interpretation, vague texts, emotional understanding, giving the morally immature a parent figure so they don't have to grow up, feeding people's need for acceptance and society and approval, setting up systems where the immoral can whitewash their crap with 'righteousness'. Taking advantage of the simple human need to be loved, who does that? I'm a parent... of a rebellious teenager I might add... do I ever look at her, even in her worst moments (and boy oh boy, she can dish it out sometimes) and wish her any harm... EVER? The opposite is true... I want nothing for her EXCEPT the very highest happiness, wonderful life and self-fulfillment possible. If she rejects my 'way' would I disown her? never. God is love? Not from where I stand. And the evidence is all around... in spades. AND... If there is a different god, a loving god, why would it hide from me? I call bollocks. Fuck faith and the horse it rode in on. Absurdities. Religion makes people unbelievably stupid, mentally unbalanced, vengeful, arrogant and morally bankrupt. Yet hides behind this 'light and love' clothing. It's the very definition of passive-aggressiveness, malignant narcissism, and delusional projection. This particular wave of my enlightenment was precipitated by the muslim violence over that stupid ass movie (trailer actually) that was made by another group of religious nutjobs who think they have the truth... I'm sick of it. It's UNACCEPTABLE. Religion is a plague on mankind. A mental and moral social disease.. I'm thoroughly convinced now. I am not an atheist anymore... I am firmly an anti-theist. I believe that religion should be fought, torn down, whatever... with all the strength we have. sorry i went all over the place... it's hard to organize it all... because it's a whole lot of everything and it affects every single person on this planet. There is no longer anything that can convince me there is anything good about it. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I have found non-theistic eastern philosophy helpful in my life journey. I do not call myself a Buddhist, but they sure do have some great ideas that help me deal with life and injustice. The rage fades with time. Hang in there. It is not the fault of the religious that they are deluded. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 AND... If there is a different god, a loving god, why would it hide from me? I call bollocks. Fuck faith and the horse it rode in on. Absurdities. I've always wondered this, myself. Why would a loving god force his creation to have to seek him, and even after they've supposedly found him, why would he force them to continually grovel and beg for him to reveal himself to them in some way that we can sense? That doesn't sound like love to me. It sounds like abuse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 I agree it's not the fault of the religious... that's what deluded means. But the systems are evil all the same and should not be tolerated. I am stating that the systems themselves are evil, and are anathema to a workable society. Religion is more dangerous than Ebola that has mutated to being air borne. There are good concepts in all religions... the golden rule is almost universal—even stone age tribes in the depths of jungles know that murder and theft is wrong. A lot of eastern beliefs are closer to philosophies than religions though... especially buddhism.. they don't propose faith, but self-reflection. I like self-reflection, it's a positive practice... i would say necessary for personal growth. Seeking our place in the world is a natural human state—we are a curious species and making sense of things is essential for our psychological equilibrium, but it get's distorted with the message that there's something WRONG WITH US that is beyond our control and the answer to that is religion (maybe I need to qualify faith-based religion here? I haven't seen much harm in neo-paganism, for example, and buddhism seems pretty harmless, but are they? I can't make that conclusion at this time. New Age however isn't much different from the big three, i would suggest it's just the flavor of the day... with a lot of woo and pseudo-scientific bullshit) It isn't the drive for self-improvement I have issue with... and this isn't something I've just figured out... this anger has been growing since the moment I realized the horror that is the doctrine of hell (and subsequently any concept of spiritual punishment for temporal mistakes) many many years ago... and has grown with deep research and the 'fruits' of the religious i see around me every day. the testimonies here alone speak volumes about the damage religion does. It isn't the individual believers I have issue with either... but I no longer see the value, in our very dangerous world, of a live and let live approach. We are far too technologically ARMED to accept moral excuses and a worldview that THIS WORLD is less important than some nebulous hope in an afterlife. As marvelous as this world is—it is fucked-up on some very serious levels. God is NOT going to make things better, there is NO last minute reprieve and the sooner we as a species learn that, the sooner we can start fixing things. It's up to US to stop war, poverty, bigotry, global warming, species extinction, hatred, etc... and religion removes that responsibility. THAT'S the danger of religion... it allows humanity to remain a fearful, self-centered, immature and irresponsible species.. and that is not acceptable. I was raised to be understanding and tolerant, polite (eh, I'm Canadian) 'multi-cultural', politically correct, all of that... it goes against my very core to state that I no longer believe that this is the way to handle things... but i truly believe that religion is the root of a large proportion of our woes and I think remaining tolerant is a mistake, actually I think it's WRONG to be tolerant in the face of such overwhelming evidence that religion is evil. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 from pantheistic witchcraft to Rosicrucianism, to Pentecostal Those are all wrong. You won't find peace until you accept that it's the Raelians that offer the true religion. Well, them and the Mormons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 I've always wondered this, myself. Why would a loving god force his creation to have to seek him, and even after they've supposedly found him, why would he force them to continually grovel and beg for him to reveal himself to them in some way that we can sense? That doesn't sound like love to me. It sounds like abuse. EXACTLY! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Really? Mormonism.. hmm... maybe you are right! But i can't get my own planet because I'm... female. shit. Raelians.. I must read up on that... for shits ad giggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Okay.. I did it! From the Raelian website: This is what the “Message” proposes: Thousands of years ago, scientists from another planet came to Earth and created all forms of life, including human beings, whom they created in their own image. References to these scientists and their work can be found in the ancient texts of many cultures. (citations? Which cultures? What texts?) Due to their highly advanced technology, they were considered as gods by our primitive ancestors and often referred to as 'Elohim' which in ancient Hebrew meant 'Those who came from the sky'. -ummm... no, that's ANNUNAKI, (Sumerian—those who from the heavens came to earth—I think that's a pretty close translation) I see a whole lot of Sitchen here. I've read the entire Halexandria library. ALL OF IT. Despite being a plural word, Elohim was mistranslated over time to the singular 'God' reference that appears in modern-day Bibles. -true (really hard to find unbiased info on this, if someone else has a better reference let me know) http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess039.htm Nevertheless,(why is this qualifer here? How I read this is "but never mind the facts, THIS is what you should be focused on") these people (?) who came from the sky (wrong) (the Elohim) educated humanity through the ages with the help of various messengers (also called prophets) with whom they had made contact. Each messenger was given a message suitable for the level of understanding prevailing at the time (how fucking convenient), with the primary purpose of instilling basic principles of non-violence and respect. (this is unfounded considering the nature of these 'revelations', FAIL) Once humanity reached a sufficient level of scientific understanding (wait, I thought they wanted us to learn non-violence and respect?), the Elohim decided to make themselves more visible in UFO sightings and to conceive their final message. (ooookay—proof please, or even evidence) Rael was given two missions: spreading that last message on Earth and preparing an embassy to welcome the return of our creators. (so, they have come back in their spaceships, are physically here, but still need a 'prophet'? WTF?) Just another self-proclaimed 'prophet' spouting nonsense... with the twist of UFO's and 'ancient alien' stuff, move along.. nothing new to see here. sometimes it's just too easy... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 You can thank me later when our alien overlords return and promote the true believers. You might even get a cool hat and fancy new title out of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellwood Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I Loved this rant! There are so many good "one liners" that it would be hard to mention them all. However I loved your point that even our creator cant accept us as we are. Great point! What a FAILED creator in that case! And the old free will argument just doesn't work anymore. Screw that crutch for god. One more that I loved. The chimpanzee thing! Great point! I am going to use that next time I have the old "I don't come from an ape" line! Great job Ravenstar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I am not an atheist anymore... I am firmly an anti-theist. I believe that religion should be fought, torn down, whatever... with all the strength we have. I personally do not understand why religion has a get-out-of-ridicule-free card. Religion requires ignorance to perpetuate so it doesn't bode well for a society to turn a blind eye to willful ignorance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Excellent rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 from pantheistic witchcraft to Rosicrucianism, to Pentecostal Those are all wrong. You won't find peace until you accept that it's the Raelians that offer the true religion. Well, them and the Mormons. You forgot Scientology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Awe... thanks! (blush) I have you and people like all of you here to thank for helping me learn critical thinking... and to have the courage to look at reality without the 'magical god goggles'. Funny thing is... this view has made me care MORE about people and the state of the world than any religious view, and appreciate truth, beauty, life and nature more than I ever did. I'm a better person for it because if I actually care about something I have to do more than pray... I have to get involved. so.. thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your bravery, intelligence and honest pursuit of truth, and for leading by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Scientology? I read Dianetics when i was 15.... They COULD have the truth! But unfortunately I don't have the money to find out lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Scientology? I read Dianetics when i was 15.... They COULD have the truth! But unfortunately I don't have the money to find out lol They have distilled the money part down to a T for a religion, that's for sure. They take more than a 10th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 I don't have enough money to claim bankruptcy either, according to a lawyer (? somehow these are related, I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 This is awesome! Thanks for writing it because it was my thought for this Sunday morning. I took a walk last night & was thinking how much I hate religion. I can feel compassion for the "true believers" many of them have been guilted & manipulated...but still, if they ever allowed themselves to think for a minute that they could actually be wrong about some things...but NEVER. It doesn't happen much that a sold out believer will STOP & reflect on the absurdity of religion. Anyhow I must say I have a whole lot of anger towards those who continue to promote abusive religion. They have a choice because even their fables have good & merciful quotes, but many of the leaders hold the abusive, fearful & manipulative bible quotes close to them because they have used them so often on their own flock to manipulate them. I was thinking about my xpastor, I felt sorry for him but then I thought NO!!! He's been a jerk for decades, spewing the same hatred & calling it "love". He lies to people that his church is about grace & love, but anyone who has been in it for any amount of time eventually figures out that it is really about control, fear, obedience. I hate the lies, lies lies. The religious assholes who spew their hate have options even in their holy book to choose the merciful bible verses...but they don't. So I now realize I can't feel sorry for them...THEY have made their choice. I want the whole abusive system to implode, to come falling down. My first hope is that the leaders will change, apologize to those who they have hurt & try to repair the damage they have done, but I know damn well that aint gonna happen. So now I'm just hoping that people will begin to see what bullshit it all is & think to themselves that "if there is a good god, is it really this much of an asshole???" I hope people can get FREE....not holding my breath, but I have a hope it might happen & if I can help then I hope to do what I can, but the wall religion has built is a hard one to get past for the "true believers". Thanks for writing this Ravenstar!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Like these? cool! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 Now I just have to figure out what the best way is, for me, to walk my talk. Confronting random religious people seems a bit... silly. I'm not yet skilled enough in logical debate to go into christian forums...(?) Maybe through my writing or art... it'll come to me when it's right. I got pinned! (happy dance through the room!) That is so incredibly cool... i'm... wow. Dave.. thank you for this incredible place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 from pantheistic witchcraft to Rosicrucianism, to Pentecostal Those are all wrong. You won't find peace until you accept that it's the Raelians that offer the true religion. Well, them and the Mormons. Raelians? They own them grocery stores, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I’m a slow learner. It took me thirty plus years to figure it out and another seven years of study and research to convince me it was all a hoax, but even then it was hard to let go. My Christian experience was limited to fundamentalism. When it comes to brainwashing those folks are absolute experts. I think they could probably teach the CIA a thing or two about indoctrinating people.I found out that God is easier to grab hold of then to let go of. I tried to make the liberal and even progressive forms of Christianity work for me after leaving my fundamentalists roots, but that didn’t work either. Once I became convinced the bible simply isn’t true in any literal or historical sense no form of Christianity made sense to me anymore. I eventually accepted Deism as my “pacifier” because Deism is whatever you want it to be. It’s an agnostic alternative that says maybe there is something more, but whatever that is, if it actually exist, it certainly isn’t the God of the bible. I don’t possess faith anymore. If I have anything I guess I would label it hope. I hope there is more but I readily acknowledge there is no evidence that suggest there is. I read “Stages of Faith” by James Fowler several years ago. That is when I became aware that a lot of people make this journey at some point in their life. I have seen much evil done to people in the fundamentalists group I was part of for 27 years. Religious leaders are often arrogant, self-righteous, vindictive assholes. The Mary Winkler case in Selmer TN is an example. Her husband was a Church of Christ preacher with sadistic tendencies. He was addicted to pornography and made her dress up like a hooker and pleasure him in abusive ways. Divorce is simply not an option in the Church of Christ and that is especially true for preachers. When she reached her breaking point, and she could see no way out, she killed him with a shotgun. And her lawyer got her off. A person would almost have to have been a member of the Church of Christ to even begin to understand how hopeless her predicament was and why should would be motivated to do what she did. She was clearly an abused spouse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Isn't it weird the type of personalities that evangelicals draw as pastors? From my observations these are all con artists to some extent and the expression we have in Afrikaans, "Gladdebek" which is a "smooth talker". All of these folk when you get to know them up close, KNOW they are ripping folk off but it is an easy street occupation that pays fucking well in most cases even though they do not actually admit it. My last pastor had aspirations of an international ministry but also realised that a "maintenance ministry" was easier to sustain. X amount of parishioners and meet their whimsical needs pray with them, hospital visits etc. and you could live easy street till retirement. It is all a fucking farce. ETA: and they all have weaknesses of the "flesh" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 I’ve found it helps to acknowledge that Christians, like the Borg in the Star Trek shows, have been assimilated. They have a central authority that thinks for them because they are part of the collective now. They can do nothing and say nothing that has not been approved by the collective. The collective has programmed their minds and they are now slaves of the Borg. If you did a brain scan on them you would see their brain has been replaced with a micro-chip. When their battery runs down they die and that forces the Borg to find a replacement. This sequence is repeated as often as necessary to keep the collective adequately populated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted October 12, 2012 Share Posted October 12, 2012 I’m a slow learner. It took me thirty plus years to figure it out and another seven years of study and research to convince me it was all a hoax, but even then it was hard to let go. My Christian experience was limited to fundamentalism. When it comes to brainwashing those folks are absolute experts. I think they could probably teach the CIA a thing or two about indoctrinating people.I found out that God is easier to grab hold of then to let go of. I tried to make the liberal and even progressive forms of Christianity work for me after leaving my fundamentalists roots, but that didn’t work either. Once I became convinced the bible simply isn’t true in any literal or historical sense no form of Christianity made sense to me anymore. I eventually accepted Deism as my “pacifier” because Deism is whatever you want it to be. It’s an agnostic alternative that says maybe there is something more, but whatever that is, if it actually exist, it certainly isn’t the God of the bible. I don’t possess faith anymore. If I have anything I guess I would label it hope. I hope there is more but I readily acknowledge there is no evidence that suggest there is. I read “Stages of Faith” by James Fowler several years ago. That is when I became aware that a lot of people make this journey at some point in their life. I have seen much evil done to people in the fundamentalists group I was part of for 27 years. Religious leaders are often arrogant, self-righteous, vindictive assholes. The Mary Winkler case in Selmer TN is an example. Her husband was a Church of Christ preacher with sadistic tendencies. He was addicted to pornography and made her dress up like a hooker and pleasure him in abusive ways. Divorce is simply not an option in the Church of Christ and that is especially true for preachers. When she reached her breaking point, and she could see no way out, she killed him with a shotgun. And her lawyer got her off. A person would almost have to have been a member of the Church of Christ to even begin to understand how hopeless her predicament was and why should would be motivated to do what she did. She was clearly an abused spouse. I remember the Mary Winkler case! I was thinking.....was this woman abused?? Religious abuse is horrible then add to that your husband being the preacher...oh shit! I'm not saying her husband was this, but many narcissists heap tons of abuse on their nearest & dearest, while the outside thinks they are next to perfect. Interesting........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts