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Since when do you need Jesus to teach you how to be a good citizen? And you'll find other sages with the same basic advice who are not affiliated with the OT's god.

Funny how they emphasize the 'nice' teachings of Jesus but seem to overlook the 'harsher' ones such as hating your family in order to follow him or just brushing off your own mother as he did when told she was standing outside waiting for him.....

 

Let's not forget the worst "Jesus" teaching in the Bible - thought crime. If you feel a natural emotion then gawd is watching you, reading your mind, and will torture you forever for you evil thought crime. You have no privacy from gawd. This concept mocks the idea of justice. God is supposedly the God of Justice. But justice is infinite torture for doing what is natural? Or justice is infinite reward for just saying a prayer and having a belief? This is just one of the many double binds in Christianity that warps the minds of believers.

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semantics and sophistry   IF the bible were the real 'word of god', who supposedly is perfect, omniscient, etc... any arguments about it's veracity would be moot, in any language, at any time, by an

I find this very interesting (the bit I have highlighted and boldened).   I don't think you actually understand the concept of losing faith. Losing faith isn't about just being disillusioned with go

Don't worry Adam, you won't be back in it for long. Your rational mind has had a taste and you'll eventually come back to your senses

Funny how they emphasize the 'nice' teachings of Jesus but seem to overlook the 'harsher' ones such as hating your family in order to follow him or just brushing off your own mother as he did when told she was standing outside waiting for him.....

A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than "Them" who "don't get my new religion."

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Let's not forget the worst "Jesus" teaching in the Bible - thought crime. If you feel a natural emotion then gawd is watching you, reading your mind, and will torture you forever for you evil thought crime. You have no privacy from gawd. This concept mocks the idea of justice. God is supposedly the God of Justice. But justice is infinite torture for doing what is natural? Or justice is infinite reward for just saying a prayer and having a belief? This is just one of the many double binds in Christianity that warps the minds of believers.

Good point and something about deconverting - I've found (maybe you and others have discovered it as well) that once I began the deconversion process, those 'guilty' feelings or thought that someone was monitoring me pretty much went away almost overnight! Now I'm free of that psychological baggage and I feel like I've been re-born.
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A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than "Them" who "don't get my new religion."

I know you don't realize it but you've given me some more info for something I'm working on regarding it being a cult. I'm gonna to use your comment as the opening line for one of the articles I'm developing, okay? I'll provide the proper source, etc. if you okay it.

 

If you give the okay this is what it will look like:

"A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than 'They' who don't get my new religion." (quote by Ouroboros, member of ex-christians.net 06 October 2012 )

 

I changed 'them' to 'they' - better English...LOL

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A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than "Them" who "don't get my new religion."

I know you don't realize it but you've given me some more info for something I'm working on regarding it being a cult. I'm gonna to use your comment as the opening line for one of the articles I'm developing, okay? I'll provide the proper source, etc. if you okay it.

 

If you give the okay this is what it will look like:

"A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than 'They' who don't get my new religion." (quote by Ouroboros, member of ex-christians.net 06 October 2012 )

 

I changed 'them' to 'they' - better English...LOL

No problem. smile.png Quoting and all. All good.

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Since when do you need Jesus to teach you how to be a good citizen? And you'll find other sages with the same basic advice who are not affiliated with the OT's god.

Funny how they emphasize the 'nice' teachings of Jesus but seem to overlook the 'harsher' ones such as hating your family in order to follow him or just brushing off your own mother as he did when told she was standing outside waiting for him.....

 

Let's not forget the worst "Jesus" teaching in the Bible - thought crime. If you feel a natural emotion then gawd is watching you, reading your mind, and will torture you forever for you evil thought crime. You have no privacy from gawd. This concept mocks the idea of justice. God is supposedly the God of Justice. But justice is infinite torture for doing what is natural? Or justice is infinite reward for just saying a prayer and having a belief? This is just one of the many double binds in Christianity that warps the minds of believers.

 

God wants us to fight our "god given" sinful nature.

 

How does that saying go? "God doesn't make no junk?" But but I was told we all "fall short of the glory of god..." Zzzzzt zzzzzt, short circuit.

 

Reminds me of this:

 

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A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than "Them" who "don't get my new religion."

I know you don't realize it but you've given me some more info for something I'm working on regarding it being a cult. I'm gonna to use your comment as the opening line for one of the articles I'm developing, okay? I'll provide the proper source, etc. if you okay it.

 

If you give the okay this is what it will look like:

"A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than 'They' who don't get my new religion." (quote by Ouroboros, member of ex-christians.net 06 October 2012 )

 

I changed 'them' to 'they' - better English...LOL

 

Sorry Raoul, not to nitpick, but it's ex-christian.net

 

Or does ex-christians.net direct you here, too?

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I feel like I've been re-born.

 

Ironic, isn't it? lol

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A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than "Them" who "don't get my new religion."

I know you don't realize it but you've given me some more info for something I'm working on regarding it being a cult. I'm gonna to use your comment as the opening line for one of the articles I'm developing, okay? I'll provide the proper source, etc. if you okay it.

 

If you give the okay this is what it will look like:

"A sure sign of a cult leader. Isolate the followers from their families. Alienate your own family. Be above and better than 'They' who don't get my new religion." (quote by Ouroboros, member of ex-christians.net 06 October 2012 )

 

I changed 'them' to 'they' - better English...LOL

 

Sorry Raoul, not to nitpick, but it's ex-christian.net

 

Or does ex-christians.net direct you here, too?

Nitpick away my friend - I need editing like yours to keep me straight with this. I'll make the correction and thanks because I'm quoting others and probably made the same mistake with them.
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I feel like I've been re-born.

 

Ironic, isn't it? lol

Oh yes. The irony doesn't just stop with that comment, there's alot of it regarding other instances as well. For example, I've seen xtians attack people over here and then some of those same xtians have called out for help or advice or something. And the people who were the recipients of their attacks turned around and actually offered help, aid, advice, etc. It begs the question - who are the REAL xtians who actually follow the good teachings in the nt then? Ironic to say the least.
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Oh yes. The irony doesn't just stop with that comment, there's alot of it regarding other instances as well. For example, I've seen xtians attack people over here and then some of those same xtians have called out for help or advice or something. And the people who were the recipients of their attacks turned around and actually offered help, aid, advice, etc. It begs the question - who are the REAL xtians who actually follow the good teachings in the nt then? Ironic to say the least.

 

Prior to coming here I spent years on an unmoderated Christian forum. It was a real eye opener. The way they attacked each other for "false beliefs" over the slightest difference in opinion and what passed as logic for them really wore out my enthusiasm for Christianity. When I first arrived there I proudly called myself a fundamentalist. But when I suggested that we be nice to members of other denominations I was denounced as an unbeliever who was just pretending to be a Christian. It's funny how the deacons, pastors and saints there helped me get free of Christianity. While it hurt at the time they were doing me a huge favor. Their arguments "proving" the Bible is infallible are what helped me to see the Bible is badly flawed. Their division allowed me to see that faith was the source and the cause of the conflict - not just on that forum but world wide and throughout history. I had an epiphany and realized the fruit of the Bible was millions of innocent people being killed in the name of Christianity.

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@MM - Well, they were right about one thing. By their fruits we *do* know them. It's just sad that someone nice like you got trampled in their single-minded rush to be right. I used to wonder about that kind of stuff too--why this denomination was right and this one said something totally different. It seemed like a total gamble to put all my money on any one of them.

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I am sure it has been nearly ten years since I left the church, but I still feel a pull back to it now and then. It was terribly strong last week, and I think it was due to the terrible strain I have been under for over two years now.

 

I resisted the impulse, since I know it was only the product of fear. It would never last and it is not who I am. It comes from the past and the superstitious notion that "if I am right with God then everything will be right..." I had an almost overwhelming desire to go back to church, confess my unbelief to someone and take communion!! Thank the flying spaghetti monster (or whatever God really is)that I overcame that terrible impulse and am now back to normal.

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Oh yes. The irony doesn't just stop with that comment, there's alot of it regarding other instances as well. For example, I've seen xtians attack people over here and then some of those same xtians have called out for help or advice or something. And the people who were the recipients of their attacks turned around and actually offered help, aid, advice, etc. It begs the question - who are the REAL xtians who actually follow the good teachings in the nt then? Ironic to say the least.

 

Prior to coming here I spent years on an unmoderated Christian forum. It was a real eye opener. The way they attacked each other for "false beliefs" over the slightest difference in opinion and what passed as logic for them really wore out my enthusiasm for Christianity. When I first arrived there I proudly called myself a fundamentalist. But when I suggested that we be nice to members of other denominations I was denounced as an unbeliever who was just pretending to be a Christian. It's funny how the deacons, pastors and saints there helped me get free of Christianity. While it hurt at the time they were doing me a huge favor. Their arguments "proving" the Bible is infallible are what helped me to see the Bible is badly flawed. Their division allowed me to see that faith was the source and the cause of the conflict - not just on that forum but world wide and throughout history. I had an epiphany and realized the fruit of the Bible was millions of innocent people being killed in the name of Christianity.

No surprise there MM because I've seen it as well. In fact, I'd never taken the amount of crap from people in the corporate, dog eat dog world, I worked in compared to what I took from the xtians while in the cult. I would keep my mouth shut because, after all, we're supposed to turn the other cheek, don't pay back evil with more evil, etc. Now, looking back at it all it seems incredible regarding the abuse we all have been exposed to with them.
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The social aspects of it are a huge draw. I know for myself when I left, that was the foremost thing I missed. There was a sense of community and family I had there, the loss of that was tough. But I wasn't where they were at anymore and couldn't share that common ground that was the basis for our community. In reality, I knew it had to go deeper than a simple common belief. In order to have that, I would have to sacrifice being where they were still at, where I was no longer at, in order to follow my own path. The choice to be on my path was more important. And that says volumes. The road alone, is much greater than being a part of a group.

.

 

Forgive if I have told this story before.

 

On youth group trip to St. Simon's Island in GA with my Methodist youth group. We were told the story of the pastor who found the church in the 1700's. Back then mail delivery wasn't what it is today. After every service, the pastor would greet all the member as they left. He would shake their right hand and hand them their weekly mail with the left.

 

The pastor was also the postmaster for the island. If you wanted your mail, then you went to his church.

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That's awesome. Maybe that's what these churches could do to increase attendance. Get some law passed where your employer has to have some local approved Evangelical church hold your check for you weekly until they can hand it out to you at their service! I'll be you if some of these uber right-wingers got hold of that idea they'd try to make it a law.

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That's awesome. Maybe that's what these churches could do to increase attendance. Get some law passed where your employer has to have some local approved Evangelical church hold your check for you weekly until they can hand it out to you at their service! I'll be you if some of these uber right-wingers got hold of that idea they'd try to make it a law.

 

minus 10% pre-tax of course.

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That's awesome. Maybe that's what these churches could do to increase attendance. Get some law passed where your employer has to have some local approved Evangelical church hold your check for you weekly until they can hand it out to you at their service! I'll be you if some of these uber right-wingers got hold of that idea they'd try to make it a law.

Shhhh...don't say it so loud because you'll give them ideas. Besides, I just found out that Germany actually taxes registered believers.(source: Der Spiegel magazine/news) The gov. collects the tax and turns it over to the various church. So, even though you probably said that as a joke, there are some places where it's an actual reality.
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OrdinaryClay, last time I saw you on here, I asked you a few questions and you never answered them.

 

1. Do you believe God is moral?

2. Do you believe the law in the Bible accurately represents God's morality?

3. Do you believe that the Gospels are an accurate representation of what Jesus' did, said, and represented?

 

Yes, don't put words in my mouth. 1) Yes, 2) Yes and 3) Yes

 

 

Yes, I believe all the Old Testament laws were moral, and God's laws are just. I also believe the New Testament is a new covenant and our behavior is to change based on the New Covenant. The laws have not changed. Our behavior has. I find it hard to believe you have not heard this before so by all means just cut to the chase.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzAorFB0Zm0

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I always find it interesting when christians SAY the OT laws were just... but they don't actually FOLLOW them. It's a very CONVENIENT religion... really, it's whatever you want it to be and everything is okay because of a human sacrifice which takes all responsibility away from grown-ups for their own shortcomings. No one actually has to feel guilt or change, or feel anything icky.

 

I guess they are just 'guidelines' or something from their immutable, unchangeable, jealous bloodthirsty tyrant of a deity... you know—feel good scapegoating through cannibalism and drinking all that blood. The Aztecs would be proud.

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Shhhh...don't say it so loud because you'll give them ideas. Besides, I just found out that Germany actually taxes registered believers.(source: Der Spiegel magazine/news) The gov. collects the tax and turns it over to the various church. So, even though you probably said that as a joke, there are some places where it's an actual reality.

That could play well into growing the irreligious demographic.

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