par4dcourse Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 So let me get this straight: you think evolution has been oversold and lacks sufficient proof.... No, you are clearly misunderstanding me. How many times do I have to say it? Terrestrial evolution is true. It's as close to a certainty as science is able to get. But it has been over sold. You're so funny sometimes, Lege. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 So back to evolution...? Yes. It happened. Everything alive today is the current end result of it. The end. Not quite the end. Evolution happened. Everything alive today is the current end result of it. Then humans discovered it. Then some men in power realized that this discovery threatened to undermine the lies they used to control others. They had already lost the power of inquisition so they tried preaching. It was not effective. So they tried a Scopes Monkey Trial. It too was not effective. So they invented Creationism and tried to pass it off as a science. This was not effective either. So the men renamed Creationism as Intelligent Design. Guess what? Not effective. So then the men started making lame videos about how God created the cultivated bannana or using washed-up Growing Pains stars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Jesus fucking christ on a fucking pogo stick with Mary and all the Apostles standing around clapping, I have never in my entire life wanted to buy someone a beer like I do right now. It's five o'clock somewhere, man. Let's do this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 10, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2012 No more brownies for all y'all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 No more brownies for all y'all. Why you gotta harsh my mellow, man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 PS I made brownies yesterday and they were yummy. But not enhanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMandeville Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 It seems some of you guys have been trying to smack me around a bit, so I feel free to be honest here. I have to conclude from some of these proceedings that some of you are almost pathetically insecure. It's almost as if the idea of evolution is some sort of panacea for you. Like inside you something like this is occurring... "I know about evolution! And it's The Truth™! And I am among those who have the balls to accept evolution, while those people (they, them, "over there") don't have the guts to accept it." Basically it's sort of like a tribal-religious thing for you. Well you've got us figured out. You're such a maverick for bravely going against the grain. "Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is the only workable explanation that has ever been proposed for the remarkable fact of our own existence, indeed the existence of all life wherever it may turn up in the universe. It is the only known explanation for the rich diversity of animals, pants, fungi and bacteria." - Richard Dawkins This is an example, in my opinion, of over selling the idea. Not in the slightest. Do you have an alternative explanation as to the complexity and diversity of life? Do you have a different analysis regarding the mechanics of evolution? That's not what Rosen posited at all. I suspect you don't understand his work all that well; you keep name-dropping and talking about how you know his kids as opposed to enlightening us on the finer points of his theories. I think you're probably used to people not knowing who he is and being able to get away with being vague and misleading about his work. Again let me repeat for the dunderheads out there that EVOLUTION IS A FACT. It helps us understand, in part, why species change over time. That is, it helps us see into how terrestrial species CAME INTO existence. But it does not explain why they exist AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Where did this come from? Who are you, Alan Watts? Why life exists in a particular moment is not something biologists seek to answer. This basically deals with a well known distinction in philosophy of epistemology and ontology. My god this is sad. Ontology has nothing to do with biology. The difference between the raw existence of a rock or an animal is indistinguishable; their specific characteristics, however, are wildly disparate, which is why we have fields such as geology and biology. Let me put it a bit more sucinctly... If Richard Dawkins gets sick, he doesn't visit an evolutionist; he visits a doctor. Duh. That doctor's understanding of germ theory, human anatomy, viral pathology, and physiology is dependent upon and intimately connected to his/her firm grasp of evolution and biology, even if the doctor chooses not to recognize it (like your occasional uber-religious doctor). "Evolutionism" as a scientific discipline doesn't exist, and even if it did, nobody is suggesting that a simple "belief" in evolution cures diseases; the understanding of it, however, is what enables us to make things like vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I've tried to stay out of this conversation but feel the need to give you guys the decoder ring here. Dawkins is a dick. Identity is everything, whether it be politics, science, culture, what have you and everything/one that doesn't meet very ambiguous, but apparently specific identity requirements is a sucky liberal that represents liberal suckage to the nth degree, no doubt. If you don't get this, you're probably a sucky liberal anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 WHY anything exists at all AT THIS MOMENT is completely irrelevant, because the opposite (non-existence) is an illusion; non-existence does not exist. Think pink fucking unicorns, man. Why talk about something that DOES NOT EXIST? Gods, well, maybe you could make some sort of case. But non-existence? THAT. DOES. NOT. EXIST. SO...the question of "why do species exist at this moment" is like dividing by 0. its just...irrelevant. or something. Things do exist. Again....why talk at all about something that there is no proof of ever existed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Vigile - Stoppit, you're ruining everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 It seems some of you guys have been trying to smack me around a bit, so I feel free to be honest here. Well you've got us figured out. You're such a maverick for bravely going against the grain. Why is it that Legion derails every thread with his pointless Yoda-talk but it is the people who take the time to try to understand him who are the bad guys? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't want to just write the guy off if he's got something to say. It's not totally fair and I like to think I'm a pretty fair person. But so far he's given me absolutely nothing to work with except the same sort of lunacy I'd expect out of some teenager who's just discovered pot. I want to understand, but it doesn't look like there's anything there to chew on. I'm still a bit mind-blown that he thinks it's amazing that organisms have genotypes and phenotypes or that he thinks that it's shocking that we go to doctors to maintain our health and cure disease but to dentists if we have cavities and to philosophers if we wonder what our purpose is as humans and to chemists if we want to make exploding paint. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to do things. I mean, I don't like going to dentists particularly but I'm not about to get some spackle and fill my own cavities. Scientists and specialists all have their place. Expecting a biologist to answer questions like our cosmic purpose is missing the entire point of the discipline of biology. Biology is not meant to answer that question, it doesn't try to answer that question, it holds itself entirely separate from that question, and Legion holding it against the science because it is neither set up for that sort of inquiry nor interested in investigating it is missing such an important point that it makes me wonder what the hell else Legion might be missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 noodles. oodles and oodles of them, Ak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't want to just write the guy off if he's got something to say. It's not totally fair and I like to think I'm a pretty fair person. But so far he's given me absolutely nothing to work with except the same sort of lunacy I'd expect out of some teenager who's just discovered pot. I want to understand, but it doesn't look like there's anything there to chew on. I'm still a bit mind-blown that he thinks it's amazing that organisms have genotypes and phenotypes or that he thinks that it's shocking that we go to doctors to maintain our health and cure disease but to dentists if we have cavities and to philosophers if we wonder what our purpose is as humans and to chemists if we want to make exploding paint. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to do things. I mean, I don't like going to dentists particularly but I'm not about to get some spackle and fill my own cavities. Scientists and specialists all have their place. Expecting a biologist to answer questions like our cosmic purpose is missing the entire point of the discipline of biology. Biology is not meant to answer that question, it doesn't try to answer that question, it holds itself entirely separate from that question, and Legion holding it against the science because it is neither set up for that sort of inquiry nor interested in investigating it is missing such an important point that it makes me wonder what the hell else Legion might be missing. For the last few day Legion has been my personal professional troll. I took the bait hook, line, and sinker. He's probably laughing in his chair now. He had fun with me trying to take him seriously; he won, I lost. I won't make that mistake again. I have now seen through it all. It would have been more obvious earlier if I had been paying better attention, but I so wanted to believe. Hmm, that's sounds so familiar, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't want to just write the guy off if he's got something to say. It's not totally fair and I like to think I'm a pretty fair person. But so far he's given me absolutely nothing to work with except the same sort of lunacy I'd expect out of some teenager who's just discovered pot. I want to understand, but it doesn't look like there's anything there to chew on. I'm still a bit mind-blown that he thinks it's amazing that organisms have genotypes and phenotypes or that he thinks that it's shocking that we go to doctors to maintain our health and cure disease but to dentists if we have cavities and to philosophers if we wonder what our purpose is as humans and to chemists if we want to make exploding paint. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to do things. I mean, I don't like going to dentists particularly but I'm not about to get some spackle and fill my own cavities. Scientists and specialists all have their place. Expecting a biologist to answer questions like our cosmic purpose is missing the entire point of the discipline of biology. Biology is not meant to answer that question, it doesn't try to answer that question, it holds itself entirely separate from that question, and Legion holding it against the science because it is neither set up for that sort of inquiry nor interested in investigating it is missing such an important point that it makes me wonder what the hell else Legion might be missing. For the last few day Legion has been my personal professional troll. I took the bait hook, line, and sinker. He's probably laughing in his chair now. He had fun with me trying to take him seriously; he won, I lost. I won't make that mistake again. I have now seen through it all. It would have been more obvious earlier if I had been paying better attention, but I so wanted to believe. Hmm, that's sounds so familiar, doesn't it? GODDAMMIT HAVE MORE FAITH FAAB!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 There's nothing bad about being the type of person who wants to be open to new ideas, Freeasabird, nor in being the type of person who accurately perceives the value of those new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well, if you guys are satisfied with your current understandings, then so be it. I think Rev R may be right about me. I'm insatiably curious, and this craving may not only give rise to suffering in me, but also cause me to be a source of suffering for others. It seems I can't help it. I want so badly to better understand. I don't want to stop at a place sufficient to beat up Christians and other assorted vitalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Your remarkable humility truly is among your most endearing qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Somebody who is curious wants to learn. Curiosity is not rejecting most of the information that comes your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't want to stop at a place sufficient to beat up Christians and other assorted vitalists. but "some" want you to! its fun. you should try it sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't want to stop at a place sufficient to beat up Christians and other assorted vitalists. Yes, I'm sure this is exactly where all biologists and others in various life sciences stop in their understanding. None of them ever go deeper than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well, if you guys are satisfied with your current understandings, then so be it. I think Rev R may be right about me. I'm insatiably curious, and this craving may not only give rise to suffering in me, but also cause me to be a source of suffering for others. It seems I can't help it. I want so badly to better understand. I don't want to stop at a place sufficient to beat up Christians and other assorted vitalists. If you didn't have mischaracterization as a tactic, Legion, I don't think you'd have any tactic at all. I find your characterization of those who demand more out of you than the superficial, completely biased, utterly without merit assertions you've given so far to be intellectually dishonest and a deliberate distortion. If you know something you think others would do well to know, then fucking pony up and share it already instead of bitching and moaning about how misunderstood you are. WAH FUCKIN WAH. Like any of the march of fundies we've seen here, you only want to share your exalted wisdom to the already-converted. Sorry. I want information and at least a teeny bit of evidence and rationality before I convert. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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