BDPApostate Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 As a christian I used to do nightly devotions with my kids. I would buy a new devotional every Christmas, and read it with them during the year, explaining things and using the material to discuss morals etc... I have tried looking for a non-christian/non-faith based replacement that is not too overtly anti-god to use. I agreed with my wife to allow her to raise the kids a christian, and not interfere, but I want to still be a part of their lives in this way. The closest thing I have found is "The book of virtues for Children" , but it has a section on how great "faith" is and I do not want to teach them that. Has anyone ever seen a book of good moral stories that I could read to my kids and use in place of devotionals? Something secular, yet not overtly anti-god? Something that wont get me in the dog house with my wife? I would love suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 These looked interesting: http://www.livestrong.com/article/76803-preschool-storybooks-morals/ And an Amazon search turned up this one: The Adventures of Mali & Keela: A Virtues Book for Children, by Jonathan Collins, Jenny Cooper, Janice Healey They all seem to be neither pro- nor anti-religion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 "Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief" is a great book. It's available on Amazon. I also see that the same author, Dale McGowan has a book named " Parenting beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Children without Religion." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted December 10, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2012 BPD, I'm not sure how old the kids are but this looks really good.......recommmended by Sam Harris!! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/12/annaka-harris-new-book-teaches-children-its-okay-to-say-i-dont-know/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Brick Bible? http://www.thebrickbible.com/menu.html Even FriendlyAtheist gave it a favorable review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If you're looking for something as addictive as xianity with roughly the same moral value you might want to consider doing crack with the kids. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheerbliss Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Tales of Beedle the Bard by JK Rowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 BPD, I'm not sure how old the kids are but this looks really good.......recommmended by Sam Harris!! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/12/annaka-harris-new-book-teaches-children-its-okay-to-say-i-dont-know/ That actually looks quite wonderful. What a perfect and important value to teach children, to find meaning in not knowing! That's something we really need to raise kids to be comfortable with, rather than trying to condition them to be looking for black and white answers to everything. Exploring a world of wonder and black and white thinking don't really go together very well; trading the beauty of mystery for the illusion of security in Answers with a capital A. I don't have any young children, but this looks like something I'd enjoy myself with all that art work in it. Certainly sounds like a good gift idea for those I know with kids. As far as wishing to instill a sense of devotion without the trappings of mythological beings, I see that as valuable. A sense of devotion instills a sense of reverence to the world and ourselves. These too are good values to have. One can nurture and foster that sense of devotion without attaching it to an object like a god. They can express thankfulness to life itself, to nature, to the universe for being part of it. Being thankful for being alive can add to the experience of themselves, to be happy for life. Create your own set of symbols to represent that. That's a gift from you to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 BPD, I'm not sure how old the kids are but this looks really good.......recommmended by Sam Harris!! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/12/annaka-harris-new-book-teaches-children-its-okay-to-say-i-dont-know/ That actually looks quite wonderful. I agree that the book looks great - I should get it for my own kids. But if BDP's wife is familiar with Sam Harris, she might not be in favor of reading the kids a book written by his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 BPD, I'm not sure how old the kids are but this looks really good.......recommmended by Sam Harris!! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/12/annaka-harris-new-book-teaches-children-its-okay-to-say-i-dont-know/ That actually looks quite wonderful. I agree that the book looks great - I should get it for my own kids. But if BDP's wife is familiar with Sam Harris, she might not be in favor of reading the kids a book written by his wife. That's true. Harris has mellowed a bit since his early days, but there is that natural knee-jerk reaction that's there. I don't know anything about his wife, but I would assume she's not the same as him in all respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Poetry time. 3-minute stories. quick science. Just some thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 But if BDP's wife is familiar with Sam Harris, she might not be in favor of reading the kids a book written by his wife. I wouldn't go to war over Harris in particular, but there is an important principal at stake here. BDP is a parent with 50% of the parental responsibilities and rights. It's pretty shitty if his wife gets to take the kids to church and raise them as xians and then also censors reading material from the atheist spouse as if he's somehow in the wrong and in a position to kowtow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 But if BDP's wife is familiar with Sam Harris, she might not be in favor of reading the kids a book written by his wife. I wouldn't go to war over Harris in particular, but there is an important principal at stake here. BDP is a parent with 50% of the parental responsibilities and rights. It's pretty shitty if his wife gets to take the kids to church and raise them as xians and then also censors reading material from the atheist spouse as if he's somehow in the wrong and in a position to kowtow. Vigile, I agree that it is a lousy position to be in, and definitely not fair to BDP. But, in BDP's original post he said that he has agreed to allow his wife to raise his children as xtians and not interfere. He also asked for material for the children that would keep him out of trouble with his wife. If his wife is not familiar with Sam Harris, then maybe a book authored by Sam's wife could slip under the radar. But, if he purchases this book and his wife researches it at all, he could end up in hot water with her. That's all I was trying to point out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 But if BDP's wife is familiar with Sam Harris, she might not be in favor of reading the kids a book written by his wife. I wouldn't go to war over Harris in particular, but there is an important principal at stake here. BDP is a parent with 50% of the parental responsibilities and rights. It's pretty shitty if his wife gets to take the kids to church and raise them as xians and then also censors reading material from the atheist spouse as if he's somehow in the wrong and in a position to kowtow. Vigile, I agree that it is a lousy position to be in, and definitely not fair to BDP. But, in BDP's original post he said that he has agreed to allow his wife to raise his children as xtians and not interfere. He also asked for material for the children that would keep him out of trouble with his wife. If his wife is not familiar with Sam Harris, then maybe a book authored by Sam's wife could slip under the radar. But, if he purchases this book and his wife researches it at all, he could end up in hot water with her. That's all I was trying to point out. I don't know about BDP, but I'd never make an agreement to cede complete control over the minds of my kids. That's exactly what this amounts to and if she's demanding it of him, she's demanding 100% of parental rights. I agree with you he shouldn't do anything behind her back. I just think it's unfair of her to demand he take no meaningful position on what their kids think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 11, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2012 I just think it's unfair of her to demand he take no meaningful position on what their kids think. I agree with Vig, of course. Non-Christians need to stop cowering in the dark corners fearing they might disappoint, anger or otherwise upset one of God's Faithful Servants. Christianity is not an intrinsically correct default position. A Christian partner in a marriage should not overshadow the other EQUAL partner. Peace at any price is not peace, it's surrender and defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rek99 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Does it have to be something that has to do with morals? I only ask because I just like to spend time with my kids at night. My wife will have her jebus time, but I love to just sit with my 5-year-old son and build Legos. I ask him about his day, what he did, what he wants to Christmas, what he's thinking about, what he wants to build, just stuff. I really think he loves the time we spend together. I kind of do the same thing with my 2 y/o, but she's a bit too young for stuff like that. We mostly read normal kid books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I probably shouldn't say anything more because this post is getting way off topic... BDP loves his wife and wants to try to keep his marriage together. It's up to him to decide what sacrifices he is willing to make to keep his family intact. Everyone on this site may all feel that his wife is being unfair, but that's not our decision to make. If BDP opens a post to talk about that issue, then I think it would be fair for everyone to chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Rose Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I agree with Vigile. I made a promise that I would raise my kids Catholic way too many years ago, and I did. Fortunately 2 out of 3 of them left it, but I think I probably would have left the church much earlier had I not made that promise. Please don't make promises that you will regret later. Better to have some discussions now while they are young. You don't have to read them material that says Christianity is bad but reading them material that teach them about the world and about morality isn't "getting in the way", it's just teaching them about morals without it coming from Bible stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Rose Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 New2Me, I agree with you also. It is not our place to convince BDP that he should go against his wife. However, I think we would be remiss in not giving him some other ways of thinking. He's not asking because he wants confirmation for what he's doing. He wants to do what's right for himself and his family, children included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rek99 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 To add-on to what I said earlier, lots of stuff comes up with my son when we're playing. Recently he asked me if I had ever seen Jesus. I simply responded no, and asked if he had. He gave me the typical little kid answer that he hadn't seen him, and that we never will because he's invisible, but he's always with us. I just said that some people think that, but I don't. I'm sure there will be more questions, just be sure to do what's right for your kids and your family. I have to be very careful because my wife gets upset very easily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I think the question hasn't been asked is BDP still married or are they living separately? It sounds to me like he is looking for material he can read to them on his own, but agreed with her she could raise them Christian as she has primary custody. Am I right? If so, getting into battles of what religious persuasion to raise the kids can do more harm than good. Getting into religious wars between parents with the children in the middle is not in their best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't know about the sticky personal situation, but, since I work in a library, I'm always in favor of bedtime books. There's some really beautiful books out there for kids of all ages. I don't know how old your kids are, but I like illustrations with stories. Besides, sometimes the morality in a tale is embedded in the viewpoint or culture or other things like that. Something as simple as a little look into another culture without judging can really convey a message more powerful than any explicit "moral of the story." Also, it's a good opportunity to see how very similar we all are, at the most basic level. Here's a quick list of some of my favorites: Gift of the Sacred Dog by Paul Goble (the myth of the horse coming to the plains of North America); Mufaro's Beautiful Daughters by John Steptoe (a Cinderella story about how important humility and respect are); The Perfect Sword by Scott Goto (nicely philosophical read about the values that have to come along with power). All three of these are gorgeously illustrated, well written, and have values that I can certainly get on board with. Also, anything by Dr Seuss is pretty much awesome unleaded. Library time makes for great family time. For older kids, who have moved on to chapter books, Maniac Magee by Jerry Spinelli (Alexander the Great allegory with regards to race relations); or Watership Down by Richard Adams (epic rabbit adventure. You read that right.); The Hobbit by J. R. R. Tolkien. Don't count out nonfiction, either. There's some great biographies out there, and history books, and science books too. If you don't want to read, there's all kinds of wonderful movies, like Spirited Away, by Hayao Miyazaki (it's a lovely animated fantasy film about a girl learning self-reliance and growing up). That movie's great for all ages, but Princess Mononoke, by the same director, is probably PG 13 on account of the intense situations (it's about a war between humanity and nature, and personal responsibility, greed, etc). (You've got to be alert that anime has very different demographic profiles than our kiddie stuff only animation market.) Or music. They Might Be Giants is a great group for intelligent, science-y music. and it's companion (when plasma was recognized as a fourth state of matter W00t for retractions. I love science.) Youtube science hour? Internet science thing? I don't know, but the resources are out there. If these had been out there when I was a kid, I'd have been all up ons. But, I'm kind of a dork like that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Rose Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Wow! That's a great list ExCBooster! Thanks! I'm going to share that with my locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Rose Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The first link is actually a free online game. That's pretty cool! These looked interesting: http://www.livestrong.com/article/76803-preschool-storybooks-morals/ And an Amazon search turned up this one: The Adventures of Mali & Keela: A Virtues Book for Children, by Jonathan Collins, Jenny Cooper, Janice Healey They all seem to be neither pro- nor anti-religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPApostate Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 I appreciate all the advice and book recommendations. I really am trying to keep my marriage intact, and though in principle it seems like a surrender, in practical terms its a win for me. If my wife leaves me, I will have a ton of time to talk about and read any anti-god books I want, but I wont be seeing my children every night. If i'm lucky I will get to see them every other weekend because in Michigan, and especially in conservative West MI, dad's do not get custody, and especially dad's that are atheists. This may be wrong, but it is reality where I am. I also love my wife dearly, so I am hoping that she will slow down on her god delusion after a while, and not get as upset as she does now while the hurt is fresh. Ideally I would want to share what I think and let the kids decide, but practically if I want to be a part of their lives I need to pick my battles I really like the Harris book, and maybe I will get a copy and read it to the kids once in a while. I also like the idea of just doing something with each of them, so maybe I will institute a date with dad night once a month for each of the kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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