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Goodbye Jesus

Highly Sensitive Persons & Christianity


PlainVince

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The only.thing they'd be wrong about is in describing the experience as spiritual, rather than neurological.

What if "the spiritual" is neurological?

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My first hubby, who enjoyed his LSD on occasion said, "please don't ever take LSD, you already perceive the world the way I do when I am on it, I'm afraid of what it might do to you". 

 

Never having taken it, I'm not sure what he meant.

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@Blackpuddin -- I dunno, I'd like to reserve the label for those who have an actual diagnosis of sensory processing disorder.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, WMD- would you mind clarifying for me?

 

 

It's like how people are self-identifying as having Asperger's syndrome, without having an actual diagnosis. It's like it's a fad, or something. I'm not saying y'all aren't HSPs. I am saying that there is a known disorder/dysfunction that causes this, please don't be so quick to claim the label for yourself.

 

 

@Blackpuddin -- I dunno, I'd like to reserve the label for those who have an actual diagnosis of sensory processing disorder.

 

Is that really the same thing as being a HSP?  That's not what it sounded like from the OP.

 

 

Except that... it is. I really don't want to see this turn into another "oh, yeah, I'm totally an Aspie" self-diagnosis thing. (Please see above.)

 

 

The only.thing they'd be wrong about is in describing the experience as spiritual, rather than neurological.

What if "the spiritual" is neurological?

 

 

What if? I'm pretty sure that's confirmed -- the spiritual IS neurological.

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See, that's the thing, WMD- I really don't mind, personally, with this one if anyone takes on the label for themselves, if they find it beneficial. If a label involves medication, then I have a bit more of an issue with it being taken on, simply because of the propensity for harm if unnecessary medication is taken. But in that case, I'm thinking of medical or psychiatric labels. A label such as Aspergers I also see being in a different category to HSP, as it is a very difficult condition that is still quite poorly misunderstood, and muddying the waters with misdiagnosis doesn't actually help anyone, least of all the person suffering from it.

 

But HSP I see to be more of a description of a personality trait/traits, along the lines of someone being, as VF mentioned above, introverted or extroverted. As a classification, I see it simply helping people to understand themselves. It's not a neurological disorder, or a mental illness; not a genetic disability or a learning disability. It's just a bunch of personality traits that some people will identify with and others won't.

 

I probably didn't articulate myself clearly enough in my original comment, and that's my fault for not making thoughts explicit enough, leading to this confusion about what I was actually talking about. Sorry about that :)

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@Blackpuddin -- I dunno, I'd like to reserve the label for those who have an actual diagnosis of sensory processing disorder.

Is that really the same thing as being a HSP?  That's not what it sounded like from the OP.

 

 

Except that... it is. I really don't want to see this turn into another "oh, yeah, I'm totally an Aspie" self-diagnosis thing. (Please see above.)

 

 

You've got a good point about people diagnosing themselves as Aspies.

What I'm saying is that the way the OP first described HSP, it didn't sound like it was equivalent to the clinical diagnosis you linked to later.

Someone doesn't need an official diagnosis from a professional to figure out whether they are, say, introverted or extroverted; differences which are real and can be helpful for people to understand. The way PlainVince described HSP, it sounded more along the lines of that sort of thing. HSP does not sound like an official medical diagnosis, unlike SPD. What I'm finding online about each does not suggest to me that they are the same thing, either.

 

I clearly don't have SPD, but I clearly do have other sensitivities, some of which can trigger vasovagal syncope.

 

What if? I'm pretty sure that's confirmed -- the spiritual IS neurological.

So then what is "wrong" about someone calling it spiritual?

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I know people tend to be skeptical of these kinds of things, with good reason, because its so easy to say "Oh, me too!" But I agree with others in saying it can help you understand yourself better. 

Even if I dont relate to all of the things listed that are traits for HSP, I definitely relate to a lot of them. For instance, I really do soak up how other people feel. Its difficult being in a bigger group of people, because its so much information that I am trying to process, and I get overwhelmed very quickly! I have often had to leave parties or social gatherings early for this reason. Or sometimes I am known to go sit outside by myself, processing everything, or just getting a break from all of it because I am feeling overwhelmed. 

 

After reading this, it makes sense why I like airports so much. I have always liked going to airports and never really understood why. The best I could say to describe it was "I just love the atmosphere. I dont know... Something about the hopeful, loneliness of airports just makes me feel.. good." And now I see. I am absorbing others excitement and hope, and relating to them in their loneliness. Its a way for me to feel those things in a safe place, unlike a party, where I am expected to be social.

 

I also feel the same way in hospitals, which people have seen as even more weird, because most people hate hospitals. And yes, they are quite sad. People are sick and dying. But there is something about the sadness that is very real and intense, and I enjoy being around it. I enjoy being around the families who are feeling the sadness and the love towards someone, because to me it feels so real. Its so much more real than what I see every day, with people living their lives focused on other things and not the people they love.

 

 

I also am extremely sensitive to light. My boyfriend opens the windows because he loved the sunshine in the apartment and I say "Ahhh! It burns!"

When he leaves for work, he opens the shutters for me, so that I have light in here, because he thinks the sunshine will do me good. When I actually shut them after he leaves, because I feel much better with dimmer light.

 

 

Well, its interesting. smile.png

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Also, in regard to leaving parties early: I am actually a very social person. I just need smaller groups and I prefer being around people I feel I understand because there is less information to take in. I think this particular issue is why I have a hard time being labeled as an extrovert or introvert. I am not shy and I love being social and being around people. But I do get over stimulated often, and need to be by myself. Sometimes I feel physically ill if I do not get that alone time.

 

 

 

Edit:

I am also very sensitive to things people say or how they treat me. I can get hurt more easily than most others. Thankfully in times like this I can reason with myself and talk myself out of being too upset. But this isnt always the case. I may not be mad at them, but their comment or actions will bring me down and affect me much more than they need to. My mom made fun of me one day when this happened after she and I got into a fight and sarcastically called me "miss sensitive". Ouch. I still havent forgotten that. It stung.

 

I can also obsess over issues with other people. To the point that I cant sleep or eat. Sometimes over things that arent a big deal. One day when I had a new job as a waitress and girl there was incredibly rude to me. I was very upset by it and couldnt sleep the whole night because I was going over why she was so mean and wondering what I should do about it, if I should say anything and wondering if she was going to do it again. Or another time a guy at work called me a bitch (because of something stupid.. he was just didnt want to do his job. He didnt even know me.) and I burst into tears. (Another girl I worked with went back and yelled at him for calling me a bitch just because he didnt want to work. How I wish I could have THAT personality sometimes!! haha) I like to think I have gotten better since then, at knowing when to calm down, but sometimes it is difficult. And when people dont understand this part of my personality it can be frustrating. My boyfriend has said to me when we were fighting a couple times "Well if you dont want to cry, just dont cry!" Gee, thanks.

 

Since I am so sensitive to how others feel, I take extra care not to hurt them. So when others dont take that same care towards me I am sometimes surprised. Like "I would NEVER do that to you! Why would you do it to me?" Its hard to know if I am being too sensitive or if I have really been wronged.

 

 

In that same way, if someone says something that makes me feel good, I will feel good for a long time. One good compliment can completely lift my spirits.

 

 

 

I also enjoy going to the movie theater alone, especially if it is an emotional or moving movie, because afterwards I will process my thoughts on the drive/walk home. I dont have a person there distracting me.

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My sensitivity can also be seen in my deconversion in how sad I am to lose the idea of justice in the end. 

 

I think about how many people have terrible lives. Starving, dying, sick people. Children who get raped, people who are never really loved. There is no god to right the wrongs and heal the wounds. There is no heaven for people to go to. That pain will never go away for them. There is no happy ending. There is no justice.

 

This absolutely BREAKS my heart, and it has been the hardest thing for me to deal with since I have deconverted. Ill watch a sad documentary about people who have been through really horrifying things, and I will be affected by it for days, even weeks.

 

 

 

If there is one thing I miss from being a Christian it is that: The idea that there will ultimately be justice in the end, and those who have been hurt will be loved and healed.

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I think almost anyone could be HSP if they wish to identify themselves as such. Seems to apply to "left brains" as well, though the "right brains" are more likely to fret over it. Who doesn't dislike huge crowds, loud noises, seeing others in pain, and general sensory overload? It gets worse with age, too. I think people who are comfortable with extreme stimulation are the exception. But, we do love our three and four letter disorders!

 

Or Russian.

 

We were shopping for a TV the other day and they blast cheap techno music from all directions inside the electronics store.  And not just one song, but 5 or 6 songs competing with one another.  When you go the the movies here, they have the video games outside cranked up to full volume, giving you a serenade of laser shots and troll squeals.  When you are in the center, there are always 3-4 hawkers trying to get you to take a canal ride via battery-operated megaphones that scramble the words via distortion.  That I haven't yet gone postal is a tribute to my amazing patience and peaceful disposition. :)

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Having a word for something is useful for understanding and accepting yourself.

 

I agree with you, but I also think we need to add a dose of moderation, lest we let our labels define us.  A paradigm is a powerful thing. 

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I agree with you, but I also think we need to add a dose of moderation, lest we let our labels define us.  A paradigm is a powerful thing. 

 

I agree. Im not interested in being defined or joining into some kind of self diagnosis. I just think it makes for interesting discussion and it can be helpful in understanding yourself and others.

 

 

 

 

GAH I HATE THIS NEW QUOTE THING, I AM SO BAD AT IT!!! hahah

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Also, in regard to leaving parties early: I am actually a very social person. I just need smaller groups and I prefer being around people I feel I understand because there is less information to take in. I think this particular issue is why I have a hard time being labeled as an extrovert or introvert. I am not shy and I love being social and being around people. But I do get over stimulated often, and need to be by myself. Sometimes I feel physically ill if I do not get that alone time.

 

 

Edit:

I am also very sensitive to things people say or how they treat me. I can get hurt more easily than most others. Thankfully in times like this I can reason with myself and talk myself out of being too upset. But this isnt always the case. I may not be mad at them, but their comment or actions will bring me down and affect me much more than they need to. My mom made fun of me one day when this happened after she and I got into a fight and sarcastically called me "miss sensitive". Ouch. I still havent forgotten that. It stung.

 

I can also obsess over issues with other people. To the point that I cant sleep or eat. Sometimes over things that arent a big deal. One day when I had a new job as a waitress and girl there was incredibly rude to me. I was very upset by it and couldnt sleep the whole night because I was going over why she was so mean and wondering what I should do about it, if I should say anything and wondering if she was going to do it again. Or another time a guy at work called me a bitch (because of something stupid.. he was just didnt want to do his job. He didnt even know me.) and I burst into tears. (Another girl I worked with went back and yelled at him for calling me a bitch just because he didnt want to work. How I wish I could have THAT personality sometimes!! haha) I like to think I have gotten better since then, at knowing when to calm down, but sometimes it is difficult. And when people dont understand this part of my personality it can be frustrating. My boyfriend has said to me when we were fighting a couple times "Well if you dont want to cry, just dont cry!" Gee, thanks.

 

Since I am so sensitive to how others feel, I take extra care not to hurt them. So when others dont take that same care towards me I am sometimes surprised. Like "I would NEVER do that to you! Why would you do it to me?" Its hard to know if I am being too sensitive or if I have really been wronged.

 

 

In that same way, if someone says something that makes me feel good, I will feel good for a long time. One good compliment can completely lift my spirits.

 

 

 

I also enjoy going to the movie theater alone, especially if it is an emotional or moving movie, because afterwards I will process my thoughts on the drive/walk home. I dont have a person there distracting me.

You sound a lot like me when I was younger. Now I just realise people are assholes and don't get too affected by it. I expect people to be mean bastards now. Still don't like it though. I have largely withdrawn from people because I don't have the capacity to protect myself from their harshness

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Also, in regard to leaving parties early: I am actually a very social person. I just need smaller groups and I prefer being around people I feel I understand because there is less information to take in. I think this particular issue is why I have a hard time being labeled as an extrovert or introvert. I am not shy and I love being social and being around people. But I do get over stimulated often, and need to be by myself. Sometimes I feel physically ill if I do not get that alone time.

 

 

Edit:

I am also very sensitive to things people say or how they treat me. I can get hurt more easily than most others. Thankfully in times like this I can reason with myself and talk myself out of being too upset. But this isnt always the case. I may not be mad at them, but their comment or actions will bring me down and affect me much more than they need to. My mom made fun of me one day when this happened after she and I got into a fight and sarcastically called me "miss sensitive". Ouch. I still havent forgotten that. It stung.

 

I can also obsess over issues with other people. To the point that I cant sleep or eat. Sometimes over things that arent a big deal. One day when I had a new job as a waitress and girl there was incredibly rude to me. I was very upset by it and couldnt sleep the whole night because I was going over why she was so mean and wondering what I should do about it, if I should say anything and wondering if she was going to do it again. Or another time a guy at work called me a bitch (because of something stupid.. he was just didnt want to do his job. He didnt even know me.) and I burst into tears. (Another girl I worked with went back and yelled at him for calling me a bitch just because he didnt want to work. How I wish I could have THAT personality sometimes!! haha) I like to think I have gotten better since then, at knowing when to calm down, but sometimes it is difficult. And when people dont understand this part of my personality it can be frustrating. My boyfriend has said to me when we were fighting a couple times "Well if you dont want to cry, just dont cry!" Gee, thanks.

 

Since I am so sensitive to how others feel, I take extra care not to hurt them. So when others dont take that same care towards me I am sometimes surprised. Like "I would NEVER do that to you! Why would you do it to me?" Its hard to know if I am being too sensitive or if I have really been wronged.

 

 

In that same way, if someone says something that makes me feel good, I will feel good for a long time. One good compliment can completely lift my spirits.

 

 

 

I also enjoy going to the movie theater alone, especially if it is an emotional or moving movie, because afterwards I will process my thoughts on the drive/walk home. I dont have a person there distracting me.

You sound a lot like me when I was younger. Now I just realise people are assholes and don't get too affected by it. I expect people to be mean bastards now. Still don't like it though. I have largely withdrawn from people because I don't have the capacity to protect myself from their harshness

Hmmm.. Yeah, when I read your earlier post I related a lot to what you said. I will gladly accept any advice you can give on how to shield myself! I dont want to be cold and harsh, but I dont want to be too vulnerable and shriveled and wounded either.., 

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Also, in regard to leaving parties early: I am actually a very social person. I just need smaller groups and I prefer being around people I feel I understand because there is less information to take in. I think this particular issue is why I have a hard time being labeled as an extrovert or introvert. I am not shy and I love being social and being around people. But I do get over stimulated often, and need to be by myself. Sometimes I feel physically ill if I do not get that alone time.

 

 

Edit:

I am also very sensitive to things people say or how they treat me. I can get hurt more easily than most others. Thankfully in times like this I can reason with myself and talk myself out of being too upset. But this isnt always the case. I may not be mad at them, but their comment or actions will bring me down and affect me much more than they need to. My mom made fun of me one day when this happened after she and I got into a fight and sarcastically called me "miss sensitive". Ouch. I still havent forgotten that. It stung.

 

I can also obsess over issues with other people. To the point that I cant sleep or eat. Sometimes over things that arent a big deal. One day when I had a new job as a waitress and girl there was incredibly rude to me. I was very upset by it and couldnt sleep the whole night because I was going over why she was so mean and wondering what I should do about it, if I should say anything and wondering if she was going to do it again. Or another time a guy at work called me a bitch (because of something stupid.. he was just didnt want to do his job. He didnt even know me.) and I burst into tears. (Another girl I worked with went back and yelled at him for calling me a bitch just because he didnt want to work. How I wish I could have THAT personality sometimes!! haha) I like to think I have gotten better since then, at knowing when to calm down, but sometimes it is difficult. And when people dont understand this part of my personality it can be frustrating. My boyfriend has said to me when we were fighting a couple times "Well if you dont want to cry, just dont cry!" Gee, thanks.

 

Since I am so sensitive to how others feel, I take extra care not to hurt them. So when others dont take that same care towards me I am sometimes surprised. Like "I would NEVER do that to you! Why would you do it to me?" Its hard to know if I am being too sensitive or if I have really been wronged.

 

 

In that same way, if someone says something that makes me feel good, I will feel good for a long time. One good compliment can completely lift my spirits.

 

 

 

I also enjoy going to the movie theater alone, especially if it is an emotional or moving movie, because afterwards I will process my thoughts on the drive/walk home. I dont have a person there distracting me.

You sound a lot like me when I was younger. Now I just realise people are assholes and don't get too affected by it. I expect people to be mean bastards now. Still don't like it though. I have largely withdrawn from people because I don't have the capacity to protect myself from their harshness

 

 

 

 

Hmmm.. Yeah, when I read your earlier post I related a lot to what you said. I will gladly accept any advice you can give on how to shield myself! I dont want to be cold and harsh, but I dont want to be too vulnerable and shriveled and wounded either.., 

 

 

 

 

 

It is a very thin line really. Our culture is harsh and judgemental and unfair. It is hard to live in a world like that when it is anathema to your soul. I am not really capable of developing a hard heart, my core values won't allow it. Sounds like yours won't either. The fact is if we want to keep our innocence, we will always be vulnerable. Doesn't mean we have to be wounded either. I now visualise my soul as a large chest with all the important things in it. I now stand on top of it with a sword should anyone even attempt to shit all over that which is important to me. I have chopped off a head or two in that process. People will always try and tell us who they think we should be. They just don't get that we are not like them and we never will be.

 

Stand your ground with a will of iron, but let your heart stay strong in the knowledge of what you know to be right, no matter how many haters there are. Takes courage and tenacity, but you seem well up to that task.

 

You done your Myers Briggs test?

 

Oh and other people will never be as careful with your feelings as you are with theirs. It is easy to become depressed and angry about that. When I was younger i used to think it was because I wasn't worth it to them, that I had no value in their eyes. Just try and remember that they are not really capable, most of them are not that self-aware. Its them, not you smile.png

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Yeah, and I either get INFJ or ENFJ.

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Oh and other people will never be as careful with your feelings as you are with theirs. It is easy to become depressed and angry about that. When I was younger i used to think it was because I wasn't worth it to them, that I had no value in their eyes. Just try and remember that they are not really capable, most of them are not that self-aware. Its them, not you smile.png

 

 

Very good point. :) Ill have to remember that...

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Makes sense, I am an INFJ. We are a bit too sensitive for this world. I always lived with an open palm, more often than not people just shit in it. They took me for granted because I am soft hearted and I want to make the whole world better. But it that job is too big for me, and it took me too long to realise it. I am 52 now, and I feel like I am 200 years old. I did not discriminate between people who deserved my love and attention and those who didn't, I just thought being a christian meant I was supposed to give it to everyone. I was like a bloody drive thru.

 

Now I am older and wiser and sadder that people generally are a lot more self centred than I am. I don't always know how to handle it without getting angry, but I have learned not to just romp into every situation and let people use me.

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Makes sense, I am an INFJ. We are a bit too sensitive for this world. I always lived with an open palm, more often than not people just shit in it. They took me for granted because I am soft hearted and I want to make the whole world better. But it that job is too big for me, and it took me too long to realise it. I am 52 now, and I feel like I am 200 years old. I did not discriminate between people who deserved my love and attention and those who didn't, I just thought being a christian meant I was supposed to give it to everyone. I was like a bloody drive thru.

 

Now I am older and wiser and sadder that people generally are a lot more self centred than I am. I don't always know how to handle it without getting angry, but I have learned not to just romp into every situation and let people use me.

I dont know how many times I have felt taken for granted. Its one of my biggest fears now, and probably the main reason I am afraid of relationships. There is nothing worse than being taken for granted...

 

Christianity deeeefinitely did not help. But thankfully I was in such horrible, shitty situations that I have had to learn how to say no and to have boundaries. Even though those situations were difficult and painful, I know that without them I never would have learned how to have boundaries.

 

 

Hmm... Its a lot to think about. I think I am still naive in a lot of ways, but I really dont want to be cold and bitter towards the world. I guess I just need to be careful about who I let close to me. 

 

I used to think that many people loved, cared, and felt like I do. I have seen that is not so. But I havent given up, and I still see goodness and kindness in some places. Even if it is hard to find sometimes...

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I used to think that many people loved, cared, and felt like I do. I have seen that is not so. But I havent given up, and I still see goodness and kindness in some places. Even if it is hard to find sometimes...

 

I still see some kindness and goodness too but often feel it is overwhelmed by the bad stuff in the world. I was 45 before I realised everyone else was not like me. Clearly I'm a bit S L O W. Just naive really, even though I grew up in a ghetto and have been through some devastating life experiences. I have no idea why it took me that long. I had to be utterly devastated by other human beings before I could give it up. Weird.

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I used to think that many people loved, cared, and felt like I do. I have seen that is not so. But I havent given up, and I still see goodness and kindness in some places. Even if it is hard to find sometimes...

 

I still see some kindness and goodness too but often feel it is overwhelmed by the bad stuff in the world. I was 45 before I realised everyone else was not like me. Clearly I'm a bit S L O W. Just naive really, even though I grew up in a ghetto and have been through some devastating life experiences. I have no idea why it took me that long. I had to be utterly devastated by other human beings before I could give it up. Weird.

 

I went through some crazy shit and was on the verge of a nervous breakdown before I learned that it was okay to have boundaries. Ive always felt different from everyone, but still in the "Everyone is different, Im interested in understanding other people and our differences", kind of way. But knowing that most people arent as sensitive as me and dont feel the same way I do, could potentially be very helpful...

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I've found a lot of "energy work" style visualizations to help me put myself back together after I've absorbed too much from other people. I often experience my emotions as visual or tactle, so this comes rather naturally. It also helps that I've finally managed to find the core of me that I wasn't able to reach before, so I have some sort of anchor point to look for. But usually what happens is that I end up feeling disoriented and scattered and upset about issues that don't belong to me. What I did last night was sit down and breath and think the command "Come" at all my scattered energy that was all disorganized and dispersed around me. Then I pulled it closer to my core, but still in a protective bubble around me. I just did that for a while, focusing on gathering all the bits that are really me. They eventually crowded out the not-me and helped me calm down.

 

Sometimes I feel guilty about taking care of myself, like it's cruel to not "care" about everyone else's hurts. A good antidote to that is to recognise that what I really want is to be able to help and give to other people; I can't do that when I'm too hurt and have nothing to give. So I can use the tendencies that get me intro trouble to help me get back out, and feel less conflicted about it.

 

(Edited for punctuation typo.)

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I went through some crazy shit and was on the verge of a nervous breakdown before I learned that it was okay to have boundaries.

I've been working a lot on boundaries stuff in the past... couple years, really.  It's difficult because I feel like a jerk when I set them.  It's taken therapy to see that it's actually healthy to be clear about boundaries, and that setting boundaries isn't rejection.

 

BTW, I always test as either INFP or INTP.

 

I've found a lot of "energy work" style visualizations to help me put myself back together after I've absorbed too much from other people.

Interesting.  Sounds like a good exercise.  Maybe I will give it a try.

 

Sometimes I feel guilty about taking care of myself, like it's cruel to not "care" about everyone else's hurts. A good antidote to that is to recognise that what I really want is to be able to help and give to other people; I can't do that when I'm too hurt and have nothing to give. So I can use the tendencies that get me intro trouble to help me get back out, and feel less conflicted about it.

That's really good to remember.  Thanks for saying that.

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I also am a HSP. I have been to a neuro about it and there are , perhaps, genetics involved. I have been genotyped and do have some variations which have been linked to weird neuro issues, to include sensitivity to certain things. Also, genetic tests reveal sensitivity to certain meds as well.

 

I also have vasovagal response something terrible. They take my blood and I am on the floor. They never believe me when I tell them. I have hit my head, gone into shock, and even had a full vasovagal seizure. Scared the shit out of the nurse. 

 

I also have to wear earplugs to go to the supermarket. Of course, at church with all that blasting music and loud speakers, I never could go unless I wore hearing protection. i also hated the lights. 

 

I was also way too empathetic, agonizing if someone was going to hell, or why were they were unable to accept Christ, or if a clone had a soul, or if a friend with bipolar was held accountable by G*d...........it was awful because all that empathy was useless. Now it is directed. 

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I also have vasovagal response something terrible. They take my blood and I am on the floor. They never believe me when I tell them. I have hit my head, gone into shock, and even had a full vasovagal seizure. Scared the shit out of the nurse. 

Hi Rachel,

 

I gotta tell you, if you have vasovagal fainting then you must insist on laying down for the procedures that are likely to trigger you.  Tell them you have scared other nurses if you have to.  In my experience if I just tell them that "I'm a fainter," they will listen and at the very least will put me on something that leans back.

 

I hit my head once when I fainted standing up because I was too embarrassed to say that I felt faint.  When I woke up I couldn't see for a while, except in spots.  It could have been worse.  Don't let them ignore you and your safety.

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