*graphic* Did Christianity Kill My Libido?

[MarieLP]

I'm new on here. Not sure if I'm posting in an appropriate way nor whether I'm posting on the appropriate discussion. So please correct me if need be. Assuming I'm doing everything right, let me continue with my topic:

 

My goal here is to find out 1) if I'm not the only one, 2) if Christianity's really to blame, 3) if there are resources out there, and 4) learn how others may have gotten through this.

 

My problem can currently be summarized as such: I don't want to have sex very much at all (I'm married). I'm not happy with that because my husband does want to have sex more often than me. 

 

On Saturday, he tried to initiate and I ended up bawling and wailing like I have never done before. Completely out of the blue. That catharsis prompted to me to start seeking help for this problem since it has been ongoing. Let's start from the beginning.

 

I was raised Christian (Lutheran, then Baptist). My parents are serious about their faith, but they're not too bonkers. However, my own spiritual path brought me to some churches that peddled more fundamental ideas. Plus, I was an extremely neurotic creature with very low self-confidence. I was like a sponge with Christianity. It helped me imagine that I was fully loved. It gave me a higher purpose. It made me feel right. However, the rational side of me fought against this hocus-pocus religion and so I ebbed and flowed from being a hard core Christian to hard core Atheist between ages 13 and 25. 

 

Puberty involved a lot of guilt. I was never really taught anything about sexuality other than to not have sex before marriage and to not masturbate. But I was curious and looked at porn, etc. I feel like I had a higher than normal libido for a young woman, actually. But anytime I engaged it, I felt filthy and hated myself.

 

Fast forward to age 20. I met a Sikh Indian man and had a whirlwind romance (he was my first kiss, my first everything). Even having intimacy with him, I remember feeling extremely self-conscious and reserved. I felt really uncomfortable and awkward. But just played along for the most part because I remember enjoying feeling rebellious and sticking it to my parents and their values. 

 

Our marriage lasted for 5 years. It was tumultuous. We were good enough friends but definitely not meant to be married. Our sex life dried up after just a few years. I had no interest in sleeping with him because I was really annoyed with his behavior. And that's what I told myself. It's not that I had a low libido - it was because I was married to an idiot. So we divorced after 5 years.

 

Fast forward to 2010. I had a 3 month relationship with my one "bad boy". I desired a lot of intimacy with him - and I can't put my finger on why. And I reflect on this relationship everyday and wonder why it was different than my first or second marriages. 

 

I met my current husband a few months after. Another whirlwind romance. Took him home on the 2nd date. He proposed to me after a year, and we married a year later. I love him so much. I feel so safe with him and he is more than I could ever ask for. However, this intimacy issue has returned. I hardly want to have sex and feel like I should want to have sex. I must not love him if I don't, or I must be broken from Christianity if I don't. 

 

Whenever he says anything suggestively, my mind just panics, like "oh crap, he is frisky". Or if he can get me to bed, I curl up and get really cold and am silly and child-like for 10-15 minutes until I run out of nervous energy and we just start doing stuff. I hardly ever initiate anything. If he's gone for the day, I will reliably do things on my own. The current situation scares me. Does it mean I'm "not attracted to him"? Does it mean I simply have a low libido and my husband is going to have to accept permanent dissatisfaction or eventually leave me to find fulfillment?

 

I have not totally accepted the idea that I "just have a low libido" to explain my current situation. I feel like there's more to it. I'm not sure I want to blame it entirely on Christianity either. I do have the finances to explore seeing a sex therapist, so I am contacting someone about that. But in the meantime, I am, for the first time, opening up my issue to a larger audience, who I think might understand me a little better than others?

 

So there you go, those are my guts on the table. Please be gentle. 

[alpha centauri]

There are times in my life when my libido seemed fiery hot, and other times when it seemed to cool off. I suppose the amount of hormones in our system plays a role, along with several other factors.

 

I do know that Christianity seemed to dull the libido somewhat in my case. And when I did feel flashes of the ol' libido, I tried to focus all those on my wife at the time, and she was rarely interested in sex. So I would feel guilty for taking matters into my own hands, so to speak. I had to repress those feelings, which was very difficult and frustrating.

 

I think pursuing therapy could be beneficial to you, although I have never done that myself.

 

It's probably natural for our libido to grow or diminish based on circumstances in our lives, but it's definitely a cause for concern if you seem to rarely want sex, and it can put a damper on your relationship, either making your spouse resentful and deprived or feel that he must seek satisfaction elsewhere.

 

In addition to therapy, there may also be some helpful books or websites that can better enable you to understand what you're going through, and ways you can work through these issues.

 

Wishing you and your husband all the best,

 

Alpha Centauri

[MarieLP]

Thank you Alpha, I have been skimming Barnes & Noble for books that provide a description that sort of applies to my situation. 

 

I am accepting of the natural ups and downs of libido. But if I had my way, as I am now, I would probably have sex once every 2 months. I would like to try to explore it some more and find out more about myself and what I really am. Because right now I just avoid it altogether.

[falemon]

Once every two months may be unusual, and perhaps Christianity had a hand in the length. Therapy or sex therapy might help iron out any potential issues and ensure your sex life is optimised and tweaked to your liking, which is what is most important.

 

Now I do disclaim that I am no sex therapist, but I get the impression that you might just need a little warming up. I imagine you might be advised to find out what sexually excites you, whether it comes from pornography or erotic books. Being a guy I was quite surprised at the effect 11 minutes had on me, so if you haven't checked out the purple covered books it might be worth checking them out

 

Maybe the women here can help chime in with their experience.

[R. S. Martin]

You might want to check out the AVEN website for Asexual Visibility and Education Network.

 

Seeing your doctor for a medical check-up on this would not be out of order, either, especially given that you've had a number of partners.

 

Now that you're actively seeking answers from a number of sources, on various levels, you're sure to get a better self-understanding.

 

I don't know whether or not you are including your husband in this search for answers but I'm thinking it might make for a stronger relationship and better understanding if he were in on it. He's got to have strong feelings on the matter.

[Akheia]

I'm new on here. Not sure if I'm posting in an appropriate way nor whether I'm posting on the appropriate discussion. So please correct me if need be. Assuming I'm doing everything right, let me continue with my topic:

 

My goal here is to find out 1) if I'm not the only one, 2) if Christianity's really to blame, 3) if there are resources out there, and 4) learn how others may have gotten through this.

WELCOME! Welcome welcome!

 

1. No, you aren't at all the only one. A lot of Christian women get really screwed up about sex. Conflicting messages, a madonna/whore complex, the entire patriarchical rape culture we unfortunately live in, all contribute some vastly malevolent mindfuckery to both men and women. The real miracle is that anybody could have a healthy sexual relationship through all the stuff Christianity does to women especially.

 

2. Possibly. Ain't nothing like religion to destroy a couple's chances of living authentically with each other. A couple that holds too tightly to (especially evangelical) Christianity's prescription of gender roles and its antiquated, misogynistic dictates for women in marriage could experience some major issues when the fantasy role clashes with reality. Like the "50 Shades of Grey" crap series does with its heroine, some women will be totally fine with living a Total Power Exchange S&M relationship 24/7. But most other women will suffer if put through that. Part of getting away from Christianity is spending time examining those gender roles to see what actually fits *you* and makes *you* happy. It doesn't sound like much of it fits you, does it?

 

3. Yes. The therapist will help a lot I think, but so will a lot of communication with your husband. I think it's important that he know you have doubts about the religion, but also to know where you are with regard to intimacy. And of course there are many women on this forum that have come through the same situation you're in.

 

4. I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask, because I DTMFA'd my fundie husband and moved on. He was a real bastard when it came to sex; he'd bought the rape culture myths completely. I was "his woman", and once we were married I was expected to put out whenever he wanted sex and to be his "lady in the streets, freak between the sheets." But he was also really horrible at sex and treated me like a second citizen both in and out of bed, which had predictable effects on my sex drive. Like you, I loved the general idea of sex and I was curious about it, but I'd never really experienced good sex or even had an orgasm till after dumping him. I began reading a lot of feminist literature and blogs, and having decided that good sex was really important to me, did not keep partnerships where that wasn't a priority for my mate. I stood up for myself, because I realized that nobody else ever would do it as well as I could. Your husband sounds like a real gem, so obviously I don't think you should dump him, but I think it's a good idea to continue learning what makes you feel good and get therapy to help you figure out what programming you've subconsciously absorbed over time that's brought you to this pass.

 

Do you suppose your husband would be okay with you explicitly asking him for a sex moratorium while you get your head figured out? Surely if he's in the loop he'll understand, especially if you give him leave to take care of matters himself (non-degrading porn, masturbation, etc) while this is going on. Give it a time limit, like 30 days, and set goals for progress. Let him see you reading manuals or sex-positive books, let him know you've got a therapist appointment, talk to him about what new thing you learned about your body or sex or whatever, and shop for a sex toy together if you don't already have a good one (hint: HITACHI WAND); I mean really work on the problem and let him see you doing this work so he doesn't feel like you're just foisting him off another month. At the end of the time limit you two set, have a brief chat about where you both are and plot a course for the next month. Can any men speak to how effective this might be? Because it seems like something that'd work for me if I had a partner who was having trouble with sex, but I'm kind of goal-oriented (also I really hate "big discussions" and ego-searches).

 

It is so awesome that you are taking proactive steps to figure things out. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to hear someone complain about something as serious as a sexual conflict at home and then hear that she just categorically doesn't want to actually fix it, just complain about it and get affirmation. I've got to wonder if women who do that just want permission to inflict misery upon themselves and their mates. But you're not. You want this better, you want your husband to be happy and for you to be happy too, and you're looking for a solution that honors you both. That's amazing, and if your husband does not express it, then let me express my admiration for your bravery and dedication to your marriage. It is incredibly scary to examine one's sexuality; it's so bound up in who we are as people, and there's so much deep programming in our heads about it. Sex gets people defensive. But you're plunging right in with sword and shield in hand to do battle for yourself and your marriage. That's just inspirational. YOU GO GIRL

 

I don't want to get much more graphic here but there is a restricted forum on ex-C that deals exclusively with sex if you need more info but don't want it in the open threads.

[MarieLP]

Thank you everyone and thank you Princess Gemworld. 

Just going to stick in a few more facts so people know a little more about  my situation. 

I have been an agnostic 5 years at least. My husband is also agnostic. We enjoy that commonality and like to tease Christians in the privacy of our own home.

Also, husband knows about my issue and I am keeping him informed of my journey. He says he'll do whatever I need him to do to help me get to where I want to be.

Also, I have no problem with him watching porn and taking care of himself. That's what he has been doing. He knows I do it, too. No worries on that.

Also, I HAVE tried to find the Sex and Christianity discussion. I saw it yesterday and asked the webmaster for the password, which he gave me. Then when I tried to find it today, it wasn't listed. I have another email in to the Webmaster.

[movingon]

It could have something to do with christianity, but it could be something else to. Our a combination of things. Are you on birth control? That can seriously screw up your libido. Are you stressed, tired, sick? Ask those things can affect it. Do you take enough time to warm up so to speak? Alot of things can affect it. the therapist will probably help, but you should probably rule out physical issues to

[MarieLP]

It could have something to do with christianity, but it could be something else to. Our a combination of things. Are you on birth control? That can seriously screw up your libido. Are you stressed, tired, sick? Ask those things can affect it. Do you take enough time to warm up so to speak? Alot of things can affect it. the therapist will probably help, but you should probably rule out physical issues to

In regards to your questions, I've been on birth control since my first relationship in 2003. But there aren't many other options since my husband is allergic to latex. I can't know if it's related to birth control since I've always been on it. I also don't think I've been stressed, tired and sick since 2005. Warming up could help, but I get really tense, nervous and shaky when we "warm up". The whole endeavor is very scary to me. 

[Margee]

 Marie, I think christianity can really have an effect on the womans sex life. I was a pentacostal and if you didn't 'mate' the right way according to their ideas about sex - you were practically  having sex with satan!! A woman couldn't even allow a fantasy to come into her mind - it would be of the devil. How can you make love, or for that mattter, have wild friggin' sex, when you had to stop and ask god for forgiveness for your thoughts!!! What a turn -off!!  And yet, we woman were guilty of 'dirty' sex all the time.

 

Sometimes I feel so sorry for the men. I think our bodies were meant to 'mate' once a month when the seed was ripe! The rest of the month - we were full of raging hormones that made us AND the men crazy!!! 

 It takes a very patient, knowledgeable man to understand a woman's mind and body.  We woman and men need to ask each other a lot of questions to find out about what we want and how to achieve a better outcome for a healthy sex life.. We need to drop our shyness with each other. we need to get to know each other and not be afraid.

 

Add also to this mixture, the stress of both woman and men and you got a real recipe for a diasterous sex life. Most of us work real hard and all we want to do is flop at night.

 

Book a couple of nights away from the 'mundane' routine and house if you can... get the candles, get the wine, get in the hot tub.... talk to each other, laugh a lot if you can...... good things will happen.......

 

You sound like your well on the way. I wish you nothing but the best!!

[RachelSkates]

There could indeed be many reason, but I really think that the way Xer men see women REALLY REALLY damages women. You are a whore all the time or you are a pure virgin. If you mess up once, you are tainted. They just mess up. You are tainted. 

 

This one guy I dated wanted all his GF s to be virgin. I said , "Are you?" He said "No. But that's different" !!!! When I asked how he just could not explain it, like I should have just known. 

 

All this makes women feel terrible. 

 

Further, Xers love porn as much as anyone, yet their whole life is to hide it. They can't get enough. A  deacon at one church I went to was so porn-loving that he ON HIS WEDDING NIGHT was into the porn while his wife was in the car at motel in the Caymen ISLANDS crying her eyes out. Now, if a guy wants to see porn, whatever. However, Xer-men who are into it are all weird about it. They lie about it instead of saying, "Want to watch it with me?"

 

Patriarchal hatred.........

 

This is not man bashing, by the way. I met a lot of really decent men at my first church, men who loved their wives more than anything. But it was not a patriarchal based institution. 

[Akheia]

 In regards to your questions, I've been on birth control since my first relationship in 2003. But there aren't many other options since my husband is allergic to latex. I can't know if it's related to birth control since I've always been on it. I also don't think I've been stressed, tired and sick since 2005. Warming up could help, but I get really tense, nervous and shaky when we "warm up". The whole endeavor is very scary to me. 

 

You sweet precious gal you

 

At least you don't have to worry about a partner who is actively Christian, right? He's at least free of active oppression. And you're mature enough to let the guy deal with his sexual needs on his own without feeling threatened by that. A lot of women would freak out at that. So that's good, works in your favor I think.

 

I'm really leaning toward the moratorium idea at present based on what you've presented. If just thinking about sex is that threatening to you, it might be useful to take all the stress off by tacitly agreeing not to have sex at all for 30 days. Do you think it'd be scary to cuddle and make out if the "ZOMG he'll want sex now" part is removed from the equation?

[MarieLP]

I'm really leaning toward the moratorium idea at present based on what you've presented. If just thinking about sex is that threatening to you, it might be useful to take all the stress off by tacitly agreeing not to have sex at all for 30 days. Do you think it'd be scary to cuddle and make out if the "ZOMG he'll want sex now" part is removed from the equation?

 

 

I like the moratorium idea, too. I'm just so scared to put up that blockage though. The fears are pretty unfounded. But it's extremely scary to think about. Makes me think that he's going to leave me or his male emotions will become so irrevocably damaged and we will crumble as a couple. Discussing this just makes me want to curl up in the fetal position and/or throw up. I don't know why it bothers me so much. But maybe I will do that moratorium thing. 

 

Regarding cuddling, I have no problem cuddling without thinking that he wants it to lead somewhere else. I can tell by the type of cuddling whether he wants it to lead somewhere else. We cuddle a lot. Yay cuddles!

[MarieLP]

There could indeed be many reason, but I really think that the way Xer men see women REALLY REALLY damages women. You are a whore all the time or you are a pure virgin. If you mess up once, you are tainted. They just mess up. You are tainted. 

 

This one guy I dated wanted all his GF s to be virgin. I said , "Are you?" He said "No. But that's different" !!!! When I asked how he just could not explain it, like I should have just known. 

 

All this makes women feel terrible. 

 

Further, Xers love porn as much as anyone, yet their whole life is to hide it. They can't get enough. A  deacon at one church I went to was so porn-loving that he ON HIS WEDDING NIGHT was into the porn while his wife was in the car at motel in the Caymen ISLANDS crying her eyes out. Now, if a guy wants to see porn, whatever. However, Xer-men who are into it are all weird about it. They lie about it instead of saying, "Want to watch it with me?"

 

Patriarchal hatred.........

 

This is not man bashing, by the way. I met a lot of really decent men at my first church, men who loved their wives more than anything. But it was not a patriarchal based institution. 

 

Man, that sucks. I personal don't feel like I can relate to that perception from the church. I think the fundies I was with never really pushed those ideas. It was mainly "Don't have sex before marriage, don't masturbate, don't have unpure thoughts". I never felt like there was a patriarchal thing going on. But boy, that would be really damaging if I had experienced that... Sounds lke you did... I'm sorry to hear that.

[MarieLP]

Hi everyone. Thanks for all your comments. I'm still struggling, if not getting worse. I downloaded a book called "Resurrecting Sex" from Nook as it appears to address some of my concerns. After having started this thread, as I follow it, I am becoming exponentially more nervous and anxious. And reading the book also contributes to it. I go between two extremes: one, knowing that what I'm doing is a positive, brave thing and it will improve my marriage in the long run and the other being absolute despair about my identity, my husband being hurt, and the dissolution of our relationship.

 

It's still another month before I do intake with the sexual therapist. I have this overwhelming dread that the next month, at the very least, will be absolutely hellish. Husband's admitted the thought has passed his mind of "what if" it turns out I just simply don't want to have sex? It passed my mind, too. That threw me into despair as well. I am really not sure how to handle all this despair that's part of looking into this issue. Or thinking that I better figure it out in favor of libido or my marriage is doomed. It's really hard to just do this discovery for my sake, damned whatever the conclusion may be.

 

I'm scared.

[Lilith666]

Porn and your high libido....hm. Sounds like me. I was into hardcore BDSM porn when I was about ten, until my parents found out.  Think being raised in a conservative Xian household has anything to do with that?

[Akheia]

It can be really threatening and challenging to open up new avenues of discovery in ourselves. But you know what you were doing before this wasn't working. You can't just go back to the way it was and expect your husband to be totes fine with celibacy. You know that's not okay.

 

A journey is made up of thousands of steps. You're taking the first ones. It's going to look scary and that's okay. I'd like to make the gentle suggestion that you ask your husband not to make any overtures until the intake is done. A month isn't that long in the long scheme of things, but wow chica you sound *really* freaked out at this point. Deep breath, you can get past this

[Kurari]

I've been in therapy for this EXACT same thing, Marie. You are by no means alone. Not in the slightest. What you described is very, very common, and there ARE resources available. 

 

If you can, I strongly suggest therapy with a sex therapist. This is a really hard thing to go through, and it's important for you to have support. 

 

1. It's NORMAL for women to have lower libidos than men (my therapist gave me a study on this, I'll have to try to find it for you). It's often thought by most men and women that libidos between the sexes SHOULD be roughly the same. This is not the case. The "porn star" libido is NOT the norm. Libidos rise and fall throughout our lives, and we are all different. They are affected by age, stress, hormones, pregnancy, diet, medications, anything. This happens to men too. I know exactly how you feel wondering if there is something wrong with you, and being repulsed at the thought of sex when you just aren't into it. It doesn't mean you aren't attracted to your husband. It means you have different needs than he does. 

 

2. The other half of this is that you're feeling shame connected with your sexuality. This is unfortunately very, very common for women. Sex is a very vulnerable time. You grew up feeling vulnerable ALL the time, even in non-sexual situations. Why WOULD you want to willingly sacrifice your general feeling of security for sex? Sometimes, that's just too high of a price to pay for an orgasm. 

 

I'm guessing your one "bad boy" gave back a lot of your power and helped bolster you during sex, which is why you desired to be intimate with him. I like bad boys for this reason myself. Their power and confidence is soaked up and shared with me. It's an amazing feeling. They don't make me feel vulnerable. 

 

And yes, you can learn to grow the power that was robbed from you back so you can enjoy being intimate without feeling scared anymore. 

 

And most importantly, you MUST involve your husband in this process. If he really cares about you, he will go to the length and be willing to work it out with you. This was the hardest thing in the world for me. Xer women are routinely taught that we're supposed to serve, not be catered to. We're supposed to sacrifice our needs for others always, especially sexually. So I was freakin' TERRIFIED of talking to my husband about this stuff. 

 

Trying to tell my husband my needs was really hard. We had long talks about our needs and how often we needed to have sex. It's taken sacrifice and compromise on both our parts. He has to do with less, I have to do with more. He used to grab and grope me a lot to initiate intimacy, and I REALLY hated that. To him it was a form of affection, to me it was telling me I was just a piece of meat. We had to get through that together and talk about other ways of showing affection. 

 

I'll try to impart a few tips: 

 

-- Take time to mentally connect before you have sex. Women usually take a long time to work up to being ready for sex, and it's a far more complicated process than it is for men. For most of us, we really need intellectual stimulation before we get to the physical part. This is why seduction is so important to us. Take the time to watch porn, read an erotic novel, look at hot pictures, and fantasize. I typically will do this for about an hour or two before I'm ready. That's just an average. Sometimes it takes far less time (especially around that time of the month) and sometimes it takes longer (If I've had an exhausting week). 

 

-- There are specific times of day when we might have a sexual peak. Pay attention to yours. Mine is in the middle of the day around 2pm (pretty consistently). First thing in the morning? Forget it. Not gonna happen for at least two hours after waking. My husband has learned not to bother me first thing in the morning. His morning wood is not my problem. 

 

-- Request to your husband that you be allowed to give yourself the first orgasm with masturbation. It's a form of giving yourself back your own power and taking control of the situation. An orgasm is always gift you give yourself. Remember that. 

 

I wouldn't say xtianity was the sole reason for this, but I'm certain it's had a deep influence. With time and patience, you can work this out. 

 

Good luck