Ross Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 So a bit about me would be in order. I am a 50 year old male living on the Central Coast of NSW Australia. I am a Reiki Practitioner. Not that many people want to have Reiki from a male. This is one thing I have struggled with is that Aussie men in general are very resistant to anything spiritual.I spend over 20 years in the Christian Fundamentalist movement. I think most in that movement would now burn me at the stake for what I believe and practice. I was a lay preacher and lay missionary trying to spread the Word of Cheeses. I had done some part time bible college as well. Shudder. I started to leave my xtian faith around 4 years ago. A marriage separation and subsequent divorce helped accelerate my de-conversion. Last year I had a bit of a de-conversion ceremony near an ancient aboriginal site. I found this very liberating to say the least. I have a deep love for tree and rocks. I am now a student of Shamanism and Wild Witch Craft. Given time I will write a lot more of my spiritual journey here and share with you where I have come from and why I believe I am on this journey. I wrote this on my blog in November 2010. This will give you an idea of where I am heading too back then..... The path of roaming can be a foggy one at times... I have found as I have traveled this spiritual path that I have changed my theological views a few times now. From staunch fundie Christian who believed only fundie Christians would get to heaven to the Calvinist view. Where only those God choose would gain his favour. I see now that God is above all of these views. At times it has scared me so much to change. I was afraid of what my so called Christian friends would think. Let me say I have none of these people as friends now. If they knew what I practice and believe now days they would not be able to handle it. But change I have. Each change has taught me so much about myself and others. The biggest change was to start to really question what I believe as a Christian. Do I still have these beliefs that I first had 25 years ago? To some degree I do. Lots of my faith I no longer hold to. Maybe a later posting here to explain this more?! The biggest fear has been what would God think about the changes I have made? This so scared me at times. Yet God is love. As I was told so many times in church. So why was I so scared? As I plunged my spiritual toe into very different spiritual ponds I have found that I am closer to God now than ever before. I see so much more of his creation now that I know we are all linked. People, plants, animals, planets, spirit world. All made by our Creator and all equal. The beauty of God is ever so clear now that it is not fogged up with dogma of the church. Love and Light till my next roaming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Welcome to the site! Happy to hear you have been able to rescue the baby from the bathwater of fundamentalism. Yes, I agree what we call God is impossible to be defined and confined within any religious doctrine. It's about discovering that in ourselves and in the world. I remember too as I embarked on my path out of fundamentalism, while still holding a more traditional theistic and anthropomorphic view of God I told myself something similar; that if what I feel compelled to question and reject if necessary, that God judges the heart and mine was true, for right or wrong. That was the first shackle broken of the chains fundamentalism in its threats of a displeased God held me within. From there it's all been about discovering the heights and breadth of that Freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Nice to meet you Ross. I grew up in Woy Woy, also an ex-fundamentalist. I have a deep love for seeking the truth and not worshipping anything. Sounds like you are enjoying your journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hey Ross! Nice to have you around, and I liked the fractal images you produced in that other post The enlightenment is always a momentous occasion worthy of a celebration. It is funny because you suddenly realise how much you were in the dark, and now all of the scriptures make total sense. All of its metaphors describe the process of de-conversion You were blind but now you see. When you was a child you thought like a child, now you have put childish things behind you. Halleluiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Thanks all for the welcome. falemon I too have found the irony of the scriptures seem to apply more you move away from them. Gailen I sure am enjoying the journey. More importantly I am enjoying loving myself. Only took over 40 years to get there. Antlerman I have found that the gods are not displeased with me at all. In fact they rejoiced when I found freedom. I will post in this thread with more tales of woe and joy from my journey. See even cheeses is happy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2me Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Welcome Ross! I must admit I was a little confused as to what the "word of cheeses" was... well, for about a second. It is getting late (for me, anyways) and my brain is tired. Looking forward to hearing more from you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Welcome Ross! I must admit I was a little confused as to what the "word of cheeses" was... well, for about a second. It is getting late (for me, anyways) and my brain is tired. Looking forward to hearing more from you! hehehehehe. A bit of a play on words there. In fact there was a time where taking the name of the lord in vain would send me into an evangelical fit at someone. I was one of those arrogant in your face witnesses for cheeses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha centauri Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Welcome Ross. Glad you were able to shake free from fundamentalism. There's an old saying in the Bible that the truth will set you free, but then it talks about being a slave to Christ. Funny thing is, slavery is a more apt description for Christianity, especially the more hard-core a person's beliefs are. I felt no true freedom from the Christian perspective. Christianity also talks about people being slaves to sin, but I never felt that any type of "sin" truly enslaved me. Sure, they try to hammer you with guilt about sexuality, but for some reason, I never fully bought in to that. Part of the reason was I saw way to many who didn't practice what they preached. And if they "fell into sin," they'd simply ask for forgiveness and move on, until the next time they fell. It was a recurring process for many. Anyway, glad you are experiencing a more fulfilling life and wishing you all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 I went into xitainty in my mid 20's. I did this due to several reasons. I wanted a sense of belonging. I was (still am) a loner. Had very few friends. I wanted to feel loved. I had real trouble getting a girl friend and when I did it did not last very long. I meet a girl at a friends party. Now get this, this said girl that I met was a lesbian and a xtian. She was struggling with her faith and her sexuality. She started to talk to me about the xtian life and god's love. You all know the gospel story. I did not reject this out right. Several months later an event happened that tore my heart out. Took me to the depths of feeling sorry for myself. I had by this time asked this friend how to become a xtian. She of course told me. So during this really horrible time in my life I did the accept cheese into your life thingie. I did feel a bit different after this. Then the arrogance started. The I am right you are wrong attitude. I started to attend an independent baptist church. Here I was taught that only those in their "cult" are real xtians. So my arrogance was being feed nicely thank you. I swallowed everything I was told from the pulpit and the bible studies. I was a right evanglical bastard. I even lost my dearest and best friend because of telling him he was bound for hell. To this day he has never forgiven me for the way I spoke to him that night. I do not blame him at all. I was a gullible fool back then. I met my ex-wife in this movement. We had 2 daughters while in this cult. Then I started to see the abuse. The way the pastors lorded it over the congregation. How the was never any accountably for these so called men of cod. So we upped and went into the main stream evangelical movement. Ended up ins Presbyterian church. I had a big change of theology and became a Calvinist. I was still on that arrogance road. Funny thing at about this time my youngest daughter, who went to all the youngish and Sunday school stuff decided she was a pagan at the age of 11. She didn't tell a sole bless her . In fact she only told me this a monthor so back now when I came out and told her I am now a pagan. When she told she had been since she was 11 I was so proud of her. She had made her own mind up. My other daughter, who is older, is still a xtian and is currently away on beach mission telling holiday makers about cheeses. She know I am nowadays pagan and we have agreed to disagree at the moment. I believe one day she too will see the erros of the church and bible and move away. At least her sister and me will be the for her. I will post more later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 I did format the above post with paragraphs etc . I am on an ipad so this maybe why the format did not work? Ok now I can edit my posts. So have fixed the one above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Antlerman I have found that the gods are not displeased with me at all. In fact they rejoiced when I found freedom. If you are still exploring things, I think you will enjoy this http://www.druidry.org It has every thing to do with nature and spirituality Or maybe this http://www.druidicdawn.org/node/1987 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Antlerman I have found that the gods are not displeased with me at all. In fact they rejoiced when I found freedom. If you are still exploring things, I think you will enjoy this http://www.druidry.org/'>http://www.druidry.org It has every thing to do with nature and spirituality Or maybe this http://www.druidicdawn.org/node/1987'>http://www.druidicdawn.org/node/1987 Thank you for those links. I will always explore. I like to take bits from different practices that resonant with me and combine them with what I already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Welcome Ross, I attended a couple of IFB churches in Sydney when I was a Christian and you and I might have gone to the same Bible college! (I went to SBBC for a couple subjects, and then another one a year or two later). I know where you're coming from definitely with the judgemental attitude they give you. Not to mention the KJO thing pushed me out of one church and the other one I left after my faith fell apart. All the best, and welcome to Ex-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Welcome Ross, I attended a couple of IFB churches in Sydney when I was a Christian and you and I might have gone to the same Bible college! (I went to SBBC for a couple subjects, and then another one a year or two later). I know where you're coming from definitely with the judgemental attitude they give you. Not to mention the KJO thing pushed me out of one church and the other one I left after my faith fell apart. All the best, and welcome to Ex-C I did some college at Connell park and also at Sydney Institute for Biblical Studies. I was in the hills bible church, then grace baptist in mt Pritchard which then became victory baptist. Then moved to a Chinese bible church in Epping. Then went into the mainstream churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Welcome Ross, I attended a couple of IFB churches in Sydney when I was a Christian and you and I might have gone to the same Bible college! (I went to SBBC for a couple subjects, and then another one a year or two later). I know where you're coming from definitely with the judgemental attitude they give you. Not to mention the KJO thing pushed me out of one church and the other one I left after my faith fell apart. All the best, and welcome to Ex-C I did some college at Connell park and also at Sydney Institute for Biblical Studies. I was in the hills bible church, then grace baptist in mt Pritchard which then became victory baptist. Then moved to a Chinese bible church in Epping. Then went into the mainstream churches. Yeah, I went to SIBS as well. That's where I went to do college full time. Was Steve Mayo around when you went? I heard about connell park but never went there. I heard they did good classes in greek though. I never went mainstream. I went to Bethany Baptist, then Fellowship and that was it but I went to a whole bunch of others. Ever went to the NBF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Welcome Ross, I attended a couple of IFB churches in Sydney when I was a Christian and you and I might have gone to the same Bible college! (I went to SBBC for a couple subjects, and then another one a year or two later). I know where you're coming from definitely with the judgemental attitude they give you. Not to mention the KJO thing pushed me out of one church and the other one I left after my faith fell apart. All the best, and welcome to Ex-C I did some college at Connell park and also at Sydney Institute for Biblical Studies. I was in the hills bible church, then grace baptist in mt Pritchard which then became victory baptist. Then moved to a Chinese bible church in Epping. Then went into the mainstream churches. Yeah, I went to SIBS as well. That's where I went to do college full time. Was Steve Mayo around when you went? I heard about connell park but never went there. I heard they did good classes in greek though. I never went mainstream. I went to Bethany Baptist, then Fellowship and that was it but I went to a whole bunch of others. Ever went to the NBF? What's NBF? I bet I know it just don't remember it. I do not recall the name Steve Mayo either. I did go to a graduation at SBBC. That event really started to open my eyes when we guests were not allowed to have snacks with the graduates, their families or the pastors. Started to see how cultish it all was. When I was at victory I had a motorcycle and sidecar. This was the transport of the ex-wife and our daughters. One night the pastor told me I have to sell the bike and sidecar. Why I asked? The reply. Wait for it. I laughed so hard afterwards. He told me that I could not fellowship with my wife while driving along. To me the person in control of the vehicle has to watch the road etc. plus I had seen his driving. No way would I want to be fellowshiping with him while he drove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 I seem to be able to trace my spiritual journey way back to my childhood. I do remember my dad taking me to see chariots of the gods at the cinema. I was not yet a teenager when this happened. It was around this time or maybe a bit before that I came up with the belief that Adam and Eve where true people. I also thought that aliens had transported them here and left them here. Where this came from I do not recall. I just know that I used to believe this when I was young. I only went to scripture at school. My family never went to church. Nor was I sent to Sunday school. I went to CofE scripture in school. The last year I did the minister was a sly bastard. He had us each week give him a small amount of money. Each student did this. He promised cash prizes at the end of the year based on our book work. The prick never gave any money away as a prize. This made me not want anything to do with the church. I should have stuck to that. Roll forward a year or two. I am now in high school. There are bullies now. Bullies that scare the crap out of me. I am one of their main targets. I took to praying to god for protection. One whole week I was ignored by the bullies after pouring out my heart to god. Then they targeted me again. Went through fours years of this hell. God meant nothing to me as he let me down big time. Again why did I not head this when I was older? We learn from our mistakes in the end. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 When I took the step to totally de-convert ay first I balked at doing this. I was so scared that god would strike me down. So scared that my world would be ripped to bits. I took to thinking about the theological changes I went through in my time as a xtain. I went from believing anyone could accept jesus to only god chooses who will be his children. When I had this change of theology I was not struck down my a big bolt of lightning. Nor did the big hand come out of the heavens and flatten me. So it was with great excitement that I went ahead and de-converted myself. I am still alive. No sign of god taking out his wrath on me. Because he/she/it is not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Welcome Ross, I attended a couple of IFB churches in Sydney when I was a Christian and you and I might have gone to the same Bible college! (I went to SBBC for a couple subjects, and then another one a year or two later). I know where you're coming from definitely with the judgemental attitude they give you. Not to mention the KJO thing pushed me out of one church and the other one I left after my faith fell apart. All the best, and welcome to Ex-C I did some college at Connell park and also at Sydney Institute for Biblical Studies. I was in the hills bible church, then grace baptist in mt Pritchard which then became victory baptist. Then moved to a Chinese bible church in Epping. Then went into the mainstream churches. Yeah, I went to SIBS as well. That's where I went to do college full time. Was Steve Mayo around when you went? I heard about connell park but never went there. I heard they did good classes in greek though. I never went mainstream. I went to Bethany Baptist, then Fellowship and that was it but I went to a whole bunch of others. Ever went to the NBF? What's NBF? I bet I know it just don't remember it. I do not recall the name Steve Mayo either. I did go to a graduation at SBBC. That event really started to open my eyes when we guests were not allowed to have snacks with the graduates, their families or the pastors. Started to see how cultish it all was. When I was at victory I had a motorcycle and sidecar. This was the transport of the ex-wife and our daughters. One night the pastor told me I have to sell the bike and sidecar. Why I asked? The reply. Wait for it. I laughed so hard afterwards. He told me that I could not fellowship with my wife while driving along. To me the person in control of the vehicle has to watch the road etc. plus I had seen his driving. No way would I want to be fellowshiping with him while he drove. National Baptist Fellowship, it's a once a year meeting that all the IFBs have. Each state takes a turn hosting it. It's really ridiculous though. The rules the IFB churches have are so stupid it's funny. One I went to stated that you could only learn about the Bible through the preacher and using materials from outside sources was a bad idea. Another one wrote a book called "the answers book" (I been to his church but wasn't a member) and would quote page numbers from it as if he were quoting verse numbers. The big thing almost all of them had though was the KJV issue and using modern "perversions". So many signs of cultish behaviour but I didn't see it for what it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 The answer book was written by Keith Piper. He used it as an evangelical tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The answer book was written by Keith Piper. He used it as an evangelical tool. Oh you know him? Yes, he also used it in his sermons. He has sermons in the back of it for upcoming preachers which he would sometimes use too. Not a very nice guy, last I heard his church split after it was revealed he was padding his pockets with the money meant to be going towards the church building fund (as they met, and probably still meet in a school). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 I went to some creation science thing that was held in his garage. A split hey. IFB churches have so many of these. The one that has the split is thankful to get rid of the so called trouble makers and the church they go to is thankful to god for sending new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yep, I wasn't a Christian for very long but I witnessed a few church splits in my time and in the couple years since I left I have heard of a few more. People are people after all, even if they want to stamp the Christian label on themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Prayer to a new xtian was the direct line to god. Well that's what I was taught while I was a xtian. Pray i did. I had lots to pray for. Yet, even back then, I knew I was not getting answers to my prays. The bible told me that god will give us our hearts desires if we ask him. I was also told that these desires are really what god wants. So really I had no desires. Yet I had desires for other people. For their healing. Yes for their salvation. For people I knew who were hurting. One particular pray was for the healing of my then wife. She had chronic fatigue. Yet not once did this loving god step in and heal her. In the bible we saw him healing the sick and lame. But not my wife. As our marriage started the reach its use by date I prayed that he would save this. This did not happen. I used to do lay mission work amongst ethnic groups. The bible said they needed to be saved. Never saw a single person out of the 1000s I reached out to with the gospel. I prayed for them all. None came to god. For years these unanswered prays plagued me. Was I doing something wrong? Was I not believing enough? Was my faith too small? I would speed hours on end. Expel so much energy searching my heart to find an answer. Slowly it started to dawn on me that there was not anything wrong with me. It was this whole xtian thing. Maybe it was not true? So prayer helped in my de-conversation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So a bit about me would be in order. I am a 50 year old male living on the Central Coast of NSW Australia. I am a Reiki Practitioner. Not that many people want to have Reiki from a male. This is one thing I have struggled with is that Aussie men in general are very resistant to anything spiritual. I spend over 20 years in the Christian Fundamentalist movement. I think most in that movement would now burn me at the stake for what I believe and practice. I was a lay preacher and lay missionary trying to spread the Word of Cheeses. I had done some part time bible college as well. Shudder. I started to leave my xtian faith around 4 years ago. A marriage separation and subsequent divorce helped accelerate my de-conversion. Last year I had a bit of a de-conversion ceremony near an ancient aboriginal site. I found this very liberating to say the least. I have a deep love for tree and rocks. I am now a student of Shamanism and Wild Witch Craft. Given time I will write a lot more of my spiritual journey here and share with you where I have come from and why I believe I am on this journey. I wrote this on my blog in November 2010. This will give you an idea of where I am heading too back then..... The path of roaming can be a foggy one at times... I have found as I have traveled this spiritual path that I have changed my theological views a few times now. From staunch fundie Christian who believed only fundie Christians would get to heaven to the Calvinist view. Where only those God choose would gain his favour. I see now that God is above all of these views. At times it has scared me so much to change. I was afraid of what my so called Christian friends would think. Let me say I have none of these people as friends now. If they knew what I practice and believe now days they would not be able to handle it. But change I have. Each change has taught me so much about myself and others. The biggest change was to start to really question what I believe as a Christian. Do I still have these beliefs that I first had 25 years ago? To some degree I do. Lots of my faith I no longer hold to. Maybe a later posting here to explain this more?! The biggest fear has been what would God think about the changes I have made? This so scared me at times. Yet God is love. As I was told so many times in church. So why was I so scared? As I plunged my spiritual toe into very different spiritual ponds I have found that I am closer to God now than ever before. I see so much more of his creation now that I know we are all linked. People, plants, animals, planets, spirit world. All made by our Creator and all equal. The beauty of God is ever so clear now that it is not fogged up with dogma of the church. Love and Light till my next roaming. Hey, I finally read this thread. Congrats on your journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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