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Goodbye Jesus

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idreamedofthelight

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I've been perusing this site for several months, though I've never worked up the courage to actually post anything until now. I'd like to share my story, if you are willing to hear it. Maybe it will help someone, maybe you can help me find some answers. Either way, I appreciate your time.

 

I grew up in a protestant, non-denominational christian family, albeit a fairly liberal one. My parents are believers, but they tended to waver on christianity's less pleasant aspects. To them, christianity was a way of life, not something to beat people over the head with.

 

We went to church regularly, I was sent to church camp 6 times, and I even once spent the night at the pastor's house once. Vacation bible school, evening classes, even helping clean the church late at night, you name it, I had to be part of it. I've even been baptised.

 

I been began to struggle with christianity and its teachings around the time I turned 13. I don't know exactly how it started, whether it was inconsistencies within the bible itself or just how people could declare god is love on one hand and cause so much pain with the other. However it began, the result was that I became more and more convinced that it was all a lie. I kept it to myself for the most part, content to just find whatever ways I could avoid religion. I even tried going back at one point, doing the whole "born again christian" spiel.

 

Eventually things did come to a head, and I began arguing with my sunday school teachers. I had questions, but they would rather dodge the issue than give answers. I finally told my parents that I would not be going to church with them anymore.

 

It went about as well as you might expect.

 

There were arguements, yelling matches, crying, and to this day my family still tries to bring me back into the fold. I'm 25 now and living on my own, so things have cooled down quite a bit, but it still comes up once in a while.

 

For a long time I was bitter with christianity, raging at any mention of religion. I felt lied to, all those promises of a better world in the afterlife, all those stories about amazing deeds and biblical times, it was all a lie created to keep people happy and unquestioning.

 

Here's the funny part, and the point to all this lengthy rambling.

I miss it. I miss daydreaming about heaven, I miss reading christian allegories, I miss spending late nights in the church library. I miss the godawful animated videos, the storybooks, the sunday school lessons. Most of all, I miss the light streaming in through stained glass windows.

 

My question to you is, how do you keep life from feeling so bleak, so lacking in wonder and imagination? When we can no longer believe that there is anything more to this world beyond what we can perceive, is there any way to feel that old magic?

 

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Welcome to Ex-C!

 

First of all, rest assured that your feelings are completely normal.  

 

As far as getting the old magic back when life seems to be lacking in wonder and imagination -- check out these photos taken from the Hubble Telescope.   For me, nothing else comes close to the majesty, wonder, awe, and magic of space.   Hope you enjoy the photos.  Take care.   

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=hubble+telescope+photos&hl=en&tbo=u&rlz=1C1TSNO_enUS461US461&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=gRjnUKf1D6T-0gGFy4HgAw&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1249&bih=617&sei=yBnnUJW4I7OB0AGEr4GIBQ

 

 

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/

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The old magic? No. Sorry. You've seen behind the curtain, the show isn't going to do it for you anymore.

 

However, I see the pictures from the Hubble posted above and I get chills. I've brought myself to tears before just staring at the night sky in the country.

 

Do whatever makes you happy. If you miss the camraderie, then find some new friends. If you miss the stained glass windows, nobody says you can't wander around a church when there's no service going on and just look.

 

One of the things I miss most from Catholicism is the incense. Guess what? Every head shop sells myrrh and frankincense. Ta-da!

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Yes go outside at night and look up at the sky, think about how each and every dot of light is a massive star and for every one you see there are thousands you don't.  Go visit a church, look at the beautiful architecture, look at the stain glass, walk around the stations of the cross, enjoy the beauty in everything.  Enjoy knowing that you have a privilege to be one of the few who live life on earth in this exact moment.  Go find some beautiful naturalistic site and spend the day in the beauty of it.

 

There's transcendence, wonder and awe in everything, move the feelings you felt for church to something else.

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My question to you is, how do you keep life from feeling so bleak, so lacking in wonder and imagination? When we can no longer believe that there is anything more to this world beyond what we can perceive, is there any way to feel that old magic?

Are you kidding me? Life is full of wonders and mysteries, the magic of reality is endless.

 

I agree with buffettphan, sometimes I just hit F11 and gaze at my beautiful mac background image of space for a moment (well, I could like, get a telescope but my background is cool enough).

 

And that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the mystical elements found in many novels. It's out there. Besides what lies beyond what we perceive is that which really exists and since most people can barely grasp reality there are bound to be countless encounters with "magic" smile.png

 

 

Here's a useless fact, there are estimated to be about as many stars in our galaxy as there are neuron cells in your brain (100 billion), and there are about as many galaxies in the known Universe as the total number of people who have lived (100-1000 billion). Now isn't that spooky wink.png

 

Methinks astrology might be onto something. No?

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Thank you for your replies, I wasn't expecting such a quick response. I will try to be more appreciative of the world around me, but I fear I will always miss those moments from my childhood.

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Welcome!

 

I think one of the wondrous things that hit me first after my deconversion was the incomprehensible unlikely occurrence of my being born at all.  That for thousands of years different creatures had to come together at the exact times they did, that each of my ancestors had to survive the birthing process and live long enough to create the next generation that ultimately led to me.  Makes winning the Powerball look like a pretty common event.

 

I do miss the idea of a blissful eternity in heaven, surrounded by all of the people I've ever loved.  But now that I've "seen behind the curtain" I know that was all a lie.  I don't miss the lies.

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Hi, idreamofthelight, and welcome to ExC.

 

I know what you mean about the light streaming through stained glass windows.  There is a church in this area with the most beautiful stained glass windows I have ever seen.  I never attended that church, but for various reasons I have been there on quite a few occasions.  I particularly like to see how the sun plays with those colors at different times of day.  So beautiful.

 

There is no reason you can't still enjoy the artistry which is a part of Christianity.  In addition to stained glass windows, I also love Handel's Messiah.  It is a majestic piece of music which, when blended with the singers (including a talented choir), is a wonderously artistic composition.

 

I think the difference now that I am no longer a Christian is that, rather than focus my thoughts on the religious meaning, I focus on the exquisite artistry, which includes, among many others, such paintings as the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

 

There can be a separation between the Christian message intended to be given in these works of art and a profound appreciation of the art for the sake of art and human creativity.

 

From what I read in your OP, what else you miss is the sense of belonging.  That's something that is fairly common among ExChristians and is entirely understandable.  Deep within ourselves, we human beings long to belong and feel that we are part of something bigger and more important than our lone selves.  You can satisfy this longing by refocusing on who you are and what you dearly love.  For example, in saying you miss the way the light shines through stained glass windows, you could focus on that if you like.  Take the time to tour various places where there are such works of art - both places of worship and more secular places because stained glass is not just confined to churches.  Learn about it and perhaps even learn to create your own works of art.  There is a whole community right there that you could become a part of.  This is just an example of what I am talking about.  In other words, become a part of something else that you find satisfying.

 

As for missing the wonder of such things as heaven, others have suggested that there are more wonders on this earth and in our universe than are even imaginable.  And, remember, everything that is around you, from the flowers in your garden to a newborn baby is all part of the universe and not separate from it.  Find those wonders and learn about them and I think you will come to conclude that, in actuality, the Christian religion belittles the true wonders that are there to behold.

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My question to you is, how do you keep life from feeling so bleak, so lacking in wonder and imagination? When we can no longer believe that there is anything more to this world beyond what we can perceive, is there any way to feel that old magic?

 

Welcome to ex-C!  There are still wonderful things.  Learn about the cosmos and how small we are compared to everything else.  Life and youth are wonderful.  All newborn babies are cute - even other species.  Yes it's sad to lose the promise of heaven when you depended on it for so long.  However in exchange the life you have right now becomes so much more important so start living for today.  Find your moral compass.  Instead of doing things to impress the heavily dictator we can do good things simply because we want to see a good result.  That is far more ethic and moral then anything a believer could do.  Let us know what's on your mind.

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Thank you for your replies, I wasn't expecting such a quick response. I will try to be more appreciative of the world around me, but I fear I will always miss those moments from my childhood.

 

Of course you will.

 

There's a word for how you feel, it's "salidade."

 

It's a bizarrely obscure Portuguese phrase that doesn't have a direct translation to any other language, the closest English comes is, "The feeling that you wish things could go back the way they were even though you know they can't, so you're just optimistic that one day things will be good enough in your life that you'll feel the same way about that time as you do about the time you miss."

 

Told you it was obscure.

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>Overcame Faith

 

I really like what you've said, but I think I have to disagree with you on one point. While its certainly possible, I don't think I ever felt like I belonged with the church or its community. Truth be told, even when I enjoyed being there, I always felt ashamed, like I wasn't good enough to be a part of that place.

 

I think what I really missed most was the fantasy. I love fantasy novels, and I loved christian allegories that took place in alternate worlds. Something about christianity just made this world feel so mundane, so boring by comparison.

 

Christianity, biblical stories, it all made it feel like there was a more wondrous world beyond this one. I suppose the real tragedy is that I seem to have utterly ingrained the disdain for this world I was taught.

 

>Jose

 

As a lover of words, you are officially my hero. Thank you.

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Thank you for your replies, I wasn't expecting such a quick response. I will try to be more appreciative of the world around me, but I fear I will always miss those moments from my childhood.

 

 

I was a dedicated follower of Christ for more than forty years. Eventually, like many others have noted, things began to unravel. I saw the inconsistencies and contradictions. The group I affiliated with was extremely legalistic and cultish.

 

Dr. James Fowler wrote a book about this process called, “Stages of Faith” Many people experience clearly definable stages when they are going through this process. And anger is one of those stages and, for many people, so is a period of grieving after the relationship has been severed. If there is a cure for this I am unaware of it. As in any grieving process it just takes time. As others have already noted it would probably be helpful to develop new interest and focus on the positive aspects of your new life now.

 

I think it is quite normal to experience separation anxiety when anything that has been such an intimate part of your life has been eliminated. Hang in there. It will get better.And sites like this, with likeminded people who have had similar experiences, should be helpful. We get it. Been there and done that.

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One of the things I miss most from Catholicism is the incense. Guess what? Every head shop sells myrrh and frankincense. Ta-da!

 

 

Funny, I almost always have some kind of incense or essential oil wafting around my house.   Must be the ex-catholic in me.    Yup, no other reason.....  happy.png   

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Thank you for your replies, I wasn't expecting such a quick response. I will try to be more appreciative of the world around me, but I fear I will always miss those moments from my childhood.

 

I found a better form of wonder and joy- learning. I never had a spiritual experience as intense as the feeling of utter elation that I get when I have struggled to understand a concept and finally get it. Religion had an answer for everything, and gave my opinions to me. Now I get to investigate an issue and work it out for myself. 

 

But that's just me. Some look to space, others look to science. Some delight in the feeling of the grass under their bare feet, while others the feeling of the cool night breeze. There are animals and children to take joy in, flowers to smell, and everything is all the more amazing because it all evolved through natural selection. Take an intense interest in every single thing you see, study it, learn about it, and you'll soon find that sense of joy and wonder all over again :)

 

Welcome to Ex-C :)

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Hi, idreamedofthelight. Quite a few have mentioned the night sky which is also one of my favorites. I'm fortunate enough to live out in the country and there is a small stream that runs through my property. I've moved a bench back there and jokingly call that "my church". It's a little cold this time of year to engage in those outside activities, so a couple of winters ago, I watched a complete video series on psychology which helped me a lot. This winter I have two courses to watch: one on the night sky, and the other on the Hubble Telescope. These are merely examples of what has been helpful for me, and with a little introspection and exploration, you'll be able to discern what it is that makes you tick, and how to incorporate those things that you have mentioned already that you enjoy. Welcome to Ex-C.

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I think different people use different strategies to adjust to their new world view after deconverting. You just have to find out what works for you. What I did was to pretend I never believed in the christian fantasy world. So I changed my world view to one consistent with reality: I am a living human being with no magic in my hip pocket. At the end of my life it will be as though I had never been born, the same as it was before I was born. My choices are clear: despair, or make the most out of this amazing world in which we live. I chose the latter. I consider my life to be a windfall as though I had won the lottery. It is something I am lucky to have. At the very least it is better than never having been born.

 

My choice means that I can take full advantage of what time I have and do things I enjoy, which include sports, camping, reading books that I actually enjoy, traveling and making friends. Have you tried the Universal Church? I've heard it does not purvey magic. I  have never attended it but I've heard good things. Maybe it would be a good place to meet people who don't have a religious agenda. I wish you the best of luck.    bill

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There is one last thing I'd like to add.

 

I don't really know where I am as an ex-christian anymore. At first I was extremely angry, lashing out at any mention of religion. It took years to realize that anger was helping me at all. I've made some semblance of peace with religion, but I'm still not secure enough in my own beliefs to stand up for myself. Now when someone brings up religion I just stay out of it. I still mourn what I used to have, and I still feel like I'm missing something in my life.

 

Thank you all for reading this thread. It feels good to have people I can tell all this to without having to listen to pro-christian lectures.

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Hello idreamofthelight, and welcome to Ex-c!! Thank you for sharing your story.

 

 I don't think I can add anything to what all these wonderful members have already said. These are all the people that helped me through when I first joined the site. Facing the cold, hard facts about reality can be the biggest slap in the face you will ever recieve. It was for me. I was like you - I didn't want it to be un-true. 

 

The biggest grieving I have done in the past couple of years is to 're-grieve' that it is a huge possibility that I will never see any of my loved ones again... my beautiful loved ones who have passed away. When they died...I had that hope back then that I would be re-united with them all some day, so I felt like I could let them go for awhile on earth because I would see them again in the afterlife.. I cried for a long time over that one. IF there happens to be some kind of afterlife when I die - that will be the biggest bonus in the world for me.

 

For now...I don't live in magicland anymore.  It still can be an awesome place to live and we must choose to live to the fullest everyday. You stay here with us and we will try to help you to adjust to your new world!! It's not all that bad once the shock wears off!! We totally understand what you are going through!!

 

Best wishes for you!!

 

Sincerely, Margee

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Welcome to ExC, idreamed!

 

So much of what you have said is similar to my own experience, and that of course is true for many here on the site. More specifically, when I lost every shred of Xian belief, I was angry at being duped by religion but yet missed something about it. I couldn't put my finger on what it was, though. I had always had a fascination with complex systems and a love of nature, and the Hubble pictures are truly awesome, but there was something that tugged about the world of xian mythology. To use the stained glass window example, even if I had gone back to the same place and looked at the sunbeams, it wouldn't be the same at all. It would be a different moment entirely. I would be viewing it through different eyes. The "magic" was gone.

 

Actually just the other day I was remembering how much I enjoyed Pilgrim's Progress, Frank E. Peretti novels, and much of the fiction by C.S. Lewis. I still enjoy watching the new Chronicles of Narnia movies (it makes for a good choice when spending time with still-Xian family members), although I get a twinge of sadness when there's a particularly overt reference to xian themes by one of the characters. But if I don't focus on those points, I can still be 'transported' and affected by the story. Other themes that are unavoidable in any good tale begin to emerge, whether intentional or not.  Something about being human. Something about being a part of nature. This is true with any art. It's not just a bunch of colored dots flashing on a white screen. It's an interplay between the artist and the audience, and what is taken away can be transformative, depending on the set of experiences that the viewer has and a myriad of other factors.

 

I guess my point so far is that you shouldn't feel like you have to view mythology as completely useless, just because you realized it isn't literally true. We can still learn from any story, whether "true" or "false."

 

May I suggest you have a look at some of the threads over in the spirituality section of this site? It might help you on your search for what is still missing. A good one to start with is http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/53579-meditation-for-the-love-of-it-for-life/

 

A lot of what's described in that thread was a great help for me to begin to move past the rage against religion and all forms of "woo" (a detestable term to me, now), and begin to see the common ground from which we can actually reconcile our previous faith-oriented thinking with skeptical & scientific reasoning. I always knew that was there but I couldn't see how it was useful or applicable, without a little helpful advice and exploration.

 

Just keep at it. I'm sure you'll dream of light again. And now you will appreciate it even more because you have seen the bleakness of the void.

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Margee: As I've said before your replies are so well written. You have just the right touch and empathy so that reading them is soothing to me and, I'll; bet, the rest of us. Keep them coming.   l

 

 

Also, idreamedoflight, you are welcome here. You've come to the right place.      bill

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Welcome to Ex-C!

 

First of all, rest assured that your feelings are completely normal.  

 

As far as getting the old magic back when life seems to be lacking in wonder and imagination -- check out these photos taken from the Hubble Telescope.   For me, nothing else comes close to the majesty, wonder, awe, and magic of space.   Hope you enjoy the photos.  Take care.   

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=hubble+telescope+photos&hl=en&tbo=u&rlz=1C1TSNO_enUS461US461&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=gRjnUKf1D6T-0gGFy4HgAw&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1249&bih=617&sei=yBnnUJW4I7OB0AGEr4GIBQ

 

 

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/

I totally agree with you on this. 

The vastness of the universe, and the fact that we are a happy accident in it, rather than the reason it was created, fills me with awe and wonder on a scale I never had when I was a Christian.

Evolution itself is amazing. Think about the fact that you could trace your roots, if it were possible, to the very first single cell creature on this planet! Every one of your ancestors were successful breeders and survivalists! That is quite a legacy to live up to yellow.gif

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