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Goodbye Jesus

Just Wondering...


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Guest nobodyyouknow

Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? huh.png

 

Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. 

 

Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful.... 

 

Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?

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Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?

 

If they don't act like the ones we rant about, then no, we don't bash them. However, being a Christian seems to practically require behaving like the ones that get bashed here. Any Christian is going to have a rough go of it on these forums, unless they are among the very few that are just genuinely curious to hear what former Christians have to say, and if they are genuinely interested in finding out the ways in which their religion fails to live up to its own marketing hype and peddles historical misinformation.

 

By the way, the only place you'll be permitted to push your Christian views is in the Lion's Den section, where any beliefs you espouse will be summarily deconstructed, and any flaws in logic or factual errors will be swiftly pointed out and corrected. Proselytizing anywhere else in this forum is forbidden.

 

Welcome, and enjoy your time here at Ex-C!

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There are lots of threads with no bashing!  And there is definitely respect for Christian posters who show respect towards us.  The Christians who earn the most contempt are the ones who spout nonsensical religious doctrine and condemnation instead of engaging in honest debate.  Oh, and those who proselytize on the 'Testimonies of Former Christians' forum... a big no-no.

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Let me re-write your arrogent opening post miss nobody.

...........................................................................

 

Hi everyone! I am a christian and I have been reading through all the posts. I see so much hurt that was caused to you by the christian beliefs. I want to help you because that's what Jesus would want me to do. I see so much anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. What ever happened to you all, who once loved jesus so much. I am here to help. I do not want to 'bash' you and I do not wish you to 'bash' me. I really want to help somehow?.....because... That's what christians do. We want to guide you back into the loving arms of the 'father'. What can I do to make myself respectful in your eyes? I have come here to sincerely find out why you all lost your faith in god.

 

Sincerely, nobodyyouknow

 

Damn, Margee, you really have gotten bold in the last year, haven't you? I couldn't even have imagined you delivering this kind of verbal smackdown when I first joined.

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Let me re-write your arrogent opening post miss nobody.

...........................................................................

 

Hi everyone! I am a christian and I have been reading through all the posts. I see so much hurt that was caused to you by the christian beliefs. I want to help you because that's what Jesus would want me to do. I see so much anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. What ever happened to you all, who once loved jesus so much. I am here to help. I do not want to 'bash' you and I do not wish you to 'bash' me. I really want to help somehow?.....because... That's what christians do. We want to guide you back into the loving arms of the 'father'. What can I do to make myself respectful in your eyes? I have come here to sincerely find out why you all lost your faith in god.

 

Sincerely, nobodyyouknow

 

Damn, Margee, you really have gotten bold in the last year, haven't you? I couldn't even have imagined you delivering this kind of verbal smackdown when I first joined.

 

 

You're pretty saucy yourself lately thought2much!!!!!yellow.gif zDuivel7.gif

It's been a joy 'deconverting' with you in the last couple of years!!! firedevil.gif

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Yes, Margee - you have a good point.  I missed it in my initial read of the original post.  I really want to know what the OP's purpose is in visiting our ex-Christian website.

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You're pretty saucy yourself lately thought2much!!!!!yellow.gif zDuivel7.gif

It's been a joy 'deconverting' with you in the last couple of years!!! firedevil.gif

Thanks Margee! It's been fun, hasn't it? (((Hugs)))

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Yes, Margee - you have a good point.  I missed it in my initial read of the original post.  I really want to know what the OP's purpose is in visiting our ex-Christian website.

 

They are not sincere people. She dosen't give a shit about how we feel.

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Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? huh.png

 

Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. 

 

Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful.... 

 

Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?

 

Much depends on what you have to say.  Since you are a Christian and this is a site for EX-Christians, might we ask why you are here? 

 

If you are here to preach, you may do so in the Lions Den forum.  But if you do, the answer is YES, you need that bullet proof vest.  Most of us here are former Christians and we don't take kindly to preaching.  Also, we have heard it all.

 

There are a few Christians that have won our respect. They have been here a long time and none of them were conventional or fundamentalist type Christians.

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Yes, Margee - you have a good point.  I missed it in my initial read of the original post.  I really want to know what the OP's purpose is in visiting our ex-Christian website.

 

I was also wondering what nobodyyouknow's intentions are. Are we just another mission field for her? Why would a Christian come to a site that is created specifically for those who have left Christianity, and then complain about what is being said about Christians?

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Also, we have heard it all.

 

I'll also point out that many people here deconverted after spending years of studying the Bible and history in order to bolster their faith. They know more about the Bible and its history than most practicing Christians, and probably more than most Christian ministers and pastors. They spent years, even decades hearing every apologetic and emotionally manipulative bit of bullshit spoken from the pulpit. They are painfully aware of why they left Christianity, and can explain their reasons at great length. It is highly unlikely that any Christian could come here and say something that we haven't heard multiple times, and that can't be refuted using logic or facts.

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While you were reading through the hundreds of posts here did you also happen to notice how horribly many of us were emotionally/spiritually/intellectually/physically, an even sexually abused by Christians because they were following what the bible said? Im not talking about hurt feelings here but serious, traumatizing abuse. For many here this is a place to vent and express our feelings as we have no one in our real lives we can talk to.

 

Clearly you haven't read much or have been selectively reading posts here as many are positive or neural in our treatment of christians; remember, most of us are still surrounded by Christian loved ones and do get on with most of them. If you are genuinely wanting to engage in discussion with us please take time to look at WHY we act in the widely varying ways we do with christians. Almost all of us were passionate followers of Christ who thought we would never leave god; until we discovered there was no Christian god.

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Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? huh.png

 

Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. 

 

Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful.... 

 

Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?

 

The Christians who get respect here are the ones who do not care about our religion.  I don't hate Christians.  It's just that the thing that all Christians have in common is a horrible religion.  Christianity does a lot of harm in subtle ways.  So if you want to talk about any other topic you will find that works out great.  We can talk about anything else you like and get along just fine.  Christians who ignore the polite warnings are the one who were rude first. 

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We used to be Christians. We have friends and family who are still Christian.

 

What most of us can't tolerate is someone telling us we were never True Christians and don't have the correct understanding of the Bible. Those who act as if the deconverted folks here have no knowledge of the religion will have a rough go of it. We've been there, done that, and ultimately rejected that. 

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Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? huh.png

 

Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. 

 

Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful.... 

 

Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?

 

I was a devote Christian for more than 40 years. I officially left the faith about just a few years ago, but I had been wrestling with doubts for ten or more years before that. And at my age I tend to be more analytical now than when I was younger.

 

It’s that analytical part of my nature that created doubts about my faith. Way too many things didn’t make sense and the contradictions and inconsistencies that are replete throughout the bible can only be ignored for so long.

 

Long before I left the faith I had to acknowledge, at least to myself, that Genesis could not possibly be true in any literal sense. With the passing of time I eventually recognized that my “beliefs” weren’t being supported by faith they were the result of having been indoctrinated. In other words I’d been used and deceived, but I eventually accepted the reality that the people who deceived me were themselves just as deceived and indoctrinated as I had been.

 

Dr. James Fowler wrote a book “Stages of Faith” that goes into detail what happens when a person begins to question their beliefs. There are distinct stages that most people go through and anger is definitely one of those stages. I went through it too, but I’m over it now.

 

My wife is still a Christian, but has come to accept that the Bible isn’t literally true. She still believes in God and Jesus though. I continue to attend services with her but I’m not involved in anything. I can still enjoy the music but the preaching is totally irrelevant as far as I’m concerned.

 

You ask why there seems to be so much bitterness, hatred, and bashing directed at Christians and Christianity. I think an honest evaluation of that would reveal it goes both ways. In my 40 year experience with Christianity my experience was that there was a lot of vindictiveness, hatred, and judging towards one another within the membership of every congregation I was a member of and legalism was common.

 

It was a real eye opening experience when I first became part of the leadership. Elders meeting were little more than gossip sessions about various members. It seems that many Elders thought it was their personal responsibility to make the minister’s life a living hell. In other words, when the rose colored glasses are removed, Christians and Christianity ain’t the love fest it’s advertised to be. And forgiveness was more semantics that reality. And if your offering checks were big enough the rules didn’t apply to your family. I’ve seen Christianity described as little more than a religious social club and, now that I’m out of it, I can see the appropriateness of that analogy.

 

When it comes to being hateful Christian don’t take a backseat to anyone. If they feel like their faith is being challenged they often become just as bitter, insufferable, and aggressive as anyone else. So, judge not least ye be judged.

 

I was active on a Christian web site for many years until I became convinced that Christianity was a man made religion. When I made the decision to leave the faith I also stopped being active on that site because I didn’t have anything in common with the other participants after that. I knew they didn’t believe the way I do now so what would be the point of antagonizing them by subjecting them to my unwanted POV?

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What you are describing in the original post is a very selective reading of the threads on this forum -- interpreting them as "angry, bitter, and hating."  For a moment, consider a thread that is mocking.  To you, this thread is interpreted as hateful, but to the writer, it is probably written with a kind of lighthearted jauntiness.  There was joy in his heart as he uncovered the ridiculousness of Christian belief/behavior.  But to you all you could see was ugliness.  It is kind of a half full, half empty kind of thing.

 

Let's look for a minute at your avatar, which says:  "no hope," and cites the verse from that wicked book Ephesians 2:12.  That evil verse reads:  Ephesians 2:11-13: "You who are Gentiles by birth were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."  The reality is that this verse is pure propaganda for your religion, and is a put-down to us nonChristians.  Christians are the experts in small-mindedness.

 

Nonbelievers, pagans and atheists have never been without hope.  Hope is part of the human condition, and has always been with us, regardless of our religion.  Socrates had hope.  Buddha had hope.  It is Christianity which wants to take our hope away from us unless we convert.  It is Christianity which wants to say that that we are hopeless.  This Bible verse requires you to interpret the world in a very skewed way, calling the glass half-empty, and labeling hope as "hopelessness."

 

16jhoia.jpg

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Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? huh.png

 

Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. 

 

Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful.... 

 

Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about?

 

Let me re-write your arrogent opening post miss nobody.

...........................................................................

 

Hi everyone! I am a christian and I have been reading through all the posts. I see so much hurt that was caused to you by the christian beliefs. I want to help you because that's what Jesus would want me to do. I see so much anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. What ever happened to you all...who once loved jesus so much? I am here to help. I do not want to 'bash' you and I do not wish you to 'bash' me. I really want to help somehow?.....because... That's what christians do. We want to guide you back into the loving arms of the 'father'. What can I do to make myself respectful in your eyes? I have come here to sincerely find out why you all lost your faith in god.

 

Sincerely, nobodyyouknow

 

 

 

If I were a soldier about to go into battle and Margee was also a soldier, I'd want to be right beside her when the shooting started.  Her aim is so accurate and the bullets she fires cut right to the heart of the matter!!

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Guest nobodyyouknow

Let me re-write your arrogent opening post miss nobody.

...........................................................................

 

Hi everyone! I am a christian and I have been reading through all the posts. I see so much hurt that was caused to you by the christian beliefs. I want to help you because that's what Jesus would want me to do. I see so much anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. What ever happened to you all...who once loved jesus so much? I am here to help. I do not want to 'bash' you and I do not wish you to 'bash' me. I really want to help somehow?.....because... That's what christians do. We want to guide you back into the loving arms of the 'father'. What can I do to make myself respectful in your eyes? I have come here to sincerely find out why you all lost your faith in god.

 

Sincerely, nobodyyouknow

 

 

I definitely didn't write that post intending it to come off as arrogant. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

 

I also didn't want to assume anything so therefore I asked questions. 

Tho, I find it very ironic that you would accuse me of being arrogant and then, yourself, seem arrogant by having the audacity to re write my post without asking me to clarify anything first.

 

I'm not sure why you did that? To irritate me? Check. To get some kind of applause from follow posters? Check.

 

Maybe some other reason? Or a combination.

 

I'm here to meet some people. Get to know some people. Ask some questions (obviously) 

 

There probably was a better way I could have worded my opening post. Seems theres only so many times you can edit?

 

I do appreciate those who gave me the benefit of the doubt and who have sought to try to understand and not just mocked.

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Let me re-write your arrogent opening post miss nobody.

...........................................................................

 

Hi everyone! I am a christian and I have been reading through all the posts. I see so much hurt that was caused to you by the christian beliefs. I want to help you because that's what Jesus would want me to do. I see so much anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. What ever happened to you all...who once loved jesus so much? I am here to help. I do not want to 'bash' you and I do not wish you to 'bash' me. I really want to help somehow?.....because... That's what christians do. We want to guide you back into the loving arms of the 'father'. What can I do to make myself respectful in your eyes? I have come here to sincerely find out why you all lost your faith in god.

 

Sincerely, nobodyyouknow

 

 

I definitely didn't write that post intending it to come off as arrogant. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

 

I also didn't want to assume anything so therefore I asked questions. 

Tho, I find it very ironic that you would accuse me of being arrogant and then, yourself, seem arrogant by having the audacity to re write my post without asking me to clarify anything first.

 

I'm not sure why you did that? To irritate me? Check. To get some kind of applause from follow posters? Check.

 

Maybe some other reason? Or a combination.

 

I'm here to meet some people. Get to know some people. Ask some questions (obviously) 

 

There probably was a better way I could have worded my opening post. Seems theres only so many times you can edit?

 

I do appreciate those who gave me the benefit of the doubt and who have sought to try to understand and not just mocked.

 

 

 

We'll see....I'll be reading........

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I think you will find its really Christianity not the person we are bashing. You have chosen to identify yourself with that religion so you may feel personally attacked- but we don't know you- we know Christianity since most of us are former Christians. Hence the EX

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I'm here to meet some people. Get to know some people. Ask some questions (obviously) 

We've already had plenty of what you're selling, thanks.

 

By the way, if your aim is really to get to know people, coming out here and calling us all bitter, arrogant douchebags probably isn't the best way to go. 

 

Anyway, I'll just reiterate what others have said. Most people here are people who have been hurt--deeply--by the church. Many of us live in areas where there aren't many other unbelievers, so this is our only place to vent. For example, pretty much every person I know IRL is a Christian, including virtually every member of my family and my wife. Thankfully, my wife is very understanding (and not a fundamentalist) but many folks here are not so lucky to have understanding spouses. Yes, it does get vitriolic here sometimes, but again, a lot of us don't have any other place to vent. 

 

I don't have the highest opinion of Christianity, but I don't hate Christians. If I hated Christians, I'd be a lonely guy. I post at a couple of Christian message boards too, and let me tell you, I get pretty pissed off when proselytizing atheists come around to stir the pot. Surely you can understand this. 

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Guest nobodyyouknow

What you are describing in the original post is a very selective reading of the threads on this forum -- interpreting them as "angry, bitter, and hating."  For a moment, consider a thread that is mocking.  To you, this thread is interpreted as hateful, but to the writer, it is probably written with a kind of lighthearted jauntiness.  There was joy in his heart as he uncovered the ridiculousness of Christian belief/behavior.  But to you all you could see was ugliness.  It is kind of a half full, half empty kind of thing.

 

Let's look for a minute at your avatar, which says:  "no hope," and cites the verse from that wicked book Ephesians 2:12.  That evil verse reads:  Ephesians 2:11-13: "You who are Gentiles by birth were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."  The reality is that this verse is pure propaganda for your religion, and is a put-down to us nonChristians.  Christians are the experts in small-mindedness.

 

Nonbelievers, pagans and atheists have never been without hope.  Hope is part of the human condition, and has always been with us, regardless of our religion.  Socrates had hope.  Buddha had hope.  It is Christianity which wants to take our hope away from us unless we convert.  It is Christianity which wants to say that that we are hopeless.  This Bible verse requires you to interpret the world in a very skewed way, calling the glass half-full, and labeling hope as "hopelessness."

 

 

 

I totally agree, it was a selected amount of threads that I looked at. Mostly due to time... though I did look at quite a few.

 

There was a common theme that seem to run through the ones I saw so I started to question...

 

I'll do some more looking through smile.png

 

Your right about what my avatar represents but it's just that. My avatar. 

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Guest nobodyyouknow

 

I'm here to meet some people. Get to know some people. Ask some questions (obviously) 

We've already had plenty of what you're selling, thanks.

 

By the way, if your aim is really to get to know people, coming out here and calling us all bitter, arrogant douchebags probably isn't the best way to go. 

 

Anyway, I'll just reiterate what others have said. Most people here are people who have been hurt--deeply--by the church. Many of us live in areas where there aren't many other unbelievers, so this is our only place to vent. For example, pretty much every person I know IRL is a Christian, including virtually every member of my family and my wife. Thankfully, my wife is very understanding (and not a fundamentalist) but many folks here are not so lucky to have understanding spouses. Yes, it does get vitriolic here sometimes, but again, a lot of us don't have any other place to vent. 

 

I don't have the highest opinion of Christianity, but I don't hate Christians. If I hated Christians, I'd be a lonely guy. I post at a couple of Christian message boards too, and let me tell you, I get pretty pissed off when proselytizing atheists come around to stir the pot. Surely you can understand this. 

 

 

I wasn't trying to insult anyone personally.. was trying to just bring up what I found coming through in the threads.

 

I only said that one person was arrogant and that was for rewriting my post. And I'm not going to

say maybe it was arrogant. It was arrogant. If I DO find out I'm wrong then I'll be more than happy to apologise. I don't think anyone here is a douche bag or anything like that.

 

There are people who have bitterness here that show through their posts.. it's not an insult. Just an observation

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Let me re-write your arrogent opening post miss nobody.

...........................................................................

 

Hi everyone! I am a christian and I have been reading through all the posts. I see so much hurt that was caused to you by the christian beliefs. I want to help you because that's what Jesus would want me to do. I see so much anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. What ever happened to you all...who once loved jesus so much? I am here to help. I do not want to 'bash' you and I do not wish you to 'bash' me. I really want to help somehow?.....because... That's what christians do. We want to guide you back into the loving arms of the 'father'. What can I do to make myself respectful in your eyes? I have come here to sincerely find out why you all lost your faith in god.

 

Sincerely, nobodyyouknow

 

 

I definitely didn't write that post intending it to come off as arrogant. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

 

I also didn't want to assume anything so therefore I asked questions. 

Tho, I find it very ironic that you would accuse me of being arrogant and then, yourself, seem arrogant by having the audacity to re write my post without asking me to clarify anything first.

 

I'm not sure why you did that? To irritate me? Check. To get some kind of applause from follow posters? Check.

 

I predict you will not last long around here.  If you don't know what Margee's motives are then you can't check them off a list.  My guess is that her motive was to teach you. 

 

 

Maybe some other reason? Or a combination.

 

I'm here to meet some people. Get to know some people. Ask some questions (obviously) 

 

There probably was a better way I could have worded my opening post. Seems theres only so many times you can edit?

 

I do appreciate those who gave me the benefit of the doubt and who have sought to try to understand and not just mocked.

 

 

So far you have been mocked by zero people.  Accusing us of mocking you when nobody has is a sure fire way to get mocked.  Please drop that and move on to more pleasant things.

 

Edit: I take some of that back.  I spoke too soon.

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