NeverAgainV Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Like anywhere in life, respect is not automatic. It must be earned. Touche! This is something that I found strange from MY experience...so many believers would take any pastor or person who memorized bible verses & respect & trust them. After leaving the vice grip of religion, I realized that I give my trust & respect only to those who truly have earned it. Religious people seem to blindly accept what someone is saying if they've memorized portions of the right book or have the proper dogma...again, just my experience with the believers I knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 If you don't want to know me then it's really simple. Don't talk to me and avoid this thread. You don't need to be rude about it. Why should we? This is our house you dropped into with your Christian avatar and all your observations about us. Yet you still haven't done us the courtesy of answering our question as to why you are here. If you have honest, real, sincere questions, we would be happy to answer them. I just haven't seen one yet, or maybe I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul? Yes Literally.... really? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul? Yes Literally.... really? Why? A better question is how can somebody believe the first three chapters of Genesis are true and also believe the problem is not with God. The answer is obvious, of course. Wow, I have come a long way in just two years. That use to be me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 We don't have any real knowledge that the post was hypocritical. We most certainly do know that the OP was a Christian accusing ex-Christians of hating Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Do you think that it is ok for god to tell his people in the OT to do mass murder, rape and steal? Surely you don't do you? Or maybe you are here as you have this doubt deep down inside your heart. A doubt that you keep pushing back. One that at times scares you. That maybe, just maybe what you believe is not the truth. How dare your heart feel this way! If you do have these doubts I would strongly recommend you test your faith. Test it against the bible. Test it against secular belief. See where it takes you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Do you think that it is ok for god to tell his people in the OT to do mass murder, rape and steal? Surely you don't do you? I'm betting on the response being something along the lines of, "His ways are above our ways and since he is God he is above our moral code, making everything he does 'good.' Plus, it is not our place to question him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 wow.. interesting introduction. I like the way you shielded yourself right from the get go with the whole christian persecution thing. Someone must have told you once that atheists are the way they are because they've been hurt - they are mad at god. *sigh* Someone lied to you. (and not everyone here is an atheist, by the way) Accusing people of being bitter isn't really the best way to say hello... when you walk into their home, at least I wasn't raised that way. You are in OUR home, as a guest, so to speak. I'm one of those who wasn't hurt by christians or christianity, or the church, whatever... I left because it's fucking stupid, insupportable and immoral. I sought (diligently and extensively) facts... and I found them and they don't support christianity, or any other religion. I respect people... if they earn it... I don't respect ideas, especially stupid ones. If your idea is dumb - I'll point it out and I'll support that with facts. I WON'T attack someone personally... that's just poor debating skills. I do have some anger and bitterness about religion because I believe it's harmful... and the religious don't keep it to themselves. I don't apologize for this position. I'm an anti-theist and past the age where I give a damn about tiptoeing around people's delusions. Others here are far more charitable and polite than I am. But don't vilify Margee.. of all of us here she is probably the sweetest, and most caring. She is the one who would defend you to the death... if she thought you were sincere. (I don't know what she really thinks - just sayin', that's her nature) Rant over... okay, well then, welcome, you say you are here to ask questions... fair enough, we always like to answer honest questions. Shoot. I've already said that I'm sorry if I could have expressed my questions in a better way. I made an observation. I wasn't out to accuse anyone of anything. Yes I did jump in and start a discussion but it was not intended to be an introduction. I didn't see any introductory thread other than ex Christian testimonies. So I by passed doing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I thought we'd start out simple... let's drop the intro thing, it's moot. "Why?" is a good place to start I think. Why do you believe the first three chapters of Genesis are literally true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul? Yes So which of the two conflicting creation accounts within those chapters do you believe to be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Do you think that it is ok for god to tell his people in the OT to do mass murder, rape and steal? Surely you don't do you? I'm betting on the response being something along the lines of, "His ways are above our ways and since he is God he is above our moral code, making everything he does 'good.' Plus, it is not our place to question him." I don't think any answer I could give would satisfy you so I'm not going to give you one. I don't pretend to know all the answers and I don't care to debate. I'm sincere whether people choose to believe it or not. Does it really matter why I came? If I am here for 'bad' reasons, no doubt i'll get kicked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul? Yes Literally.... really? Why? I believe the word of God (the bible) is all true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted January 6, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 6, 2013 Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul? Yes Literally.... really? Why? I believe the word of God (the bible) is all true. What convinces you of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It's pretty obvious to me why you've been attacked here. It's because we all recognize Christian thinking when we see it; we have all been Christians and we all used to think in the same way. There is no innocent 'asking questions' for the Christian; regarless of the situation, we were all trained (just like you were) to seize upon it and use it to further the kingdom of God. In every interaction with other people, whether it be at the supermarket checkout, talking with friends or on internet forums, Christians must seek to find a way to gently guide people back to Christ; that is just the nature of the beast, and we know this because we were all once like this. So this is why your OP is so ridiculously transparent to us and why you have been rightly called out on it. Can you answer this one question, completely honestly? WHAT WAS YOUR INTENT when posting the OP? If you say it was not to proselytize, then you are obviously a liar, since that would have to constitute at least part of your reason. If you say it WAS to proselytize, then you are in breach of the forum rules, since you can only do this in the Lion's Den. So what is your answer? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Nobodyyouknow.... I want to ask you a sincere question. Do you believe in the literal account that took place in the first 3 chapters of Genesis, with all your heart and soul? Yes Literally.... really? Why? I believe the word of God (the bible) is all true. So does that mean you believe both accounts to be true? Reread the beginning of Genesis. The two accounts are different (quick start example: compare Gen 1:25-27 with Gen 2:18-19). They contradict each other. How can the bible all be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I don't think any answer I could give would satisfy you so I'm not going to give you one. I don't pretend to know all the answers and I don't care to debate. Impressive. I think I was wrong about you. You have potential. That is to say you are not like the typical Christians we see as visitors. I'm sincere whether people choose to believe it or not. Does it really matter why I came? If I am here for 'bad' reasons, no doubt i'll get kicked. Well your reasons will shape what you can get out of the experience however you don't have to share them if you wish to keep it private. Mostly Christians get kicked for having a bad attitude or preaching in places other than the Lion's Den. Of course anybody can get kicked for being abusive. I don't have a problem with you having a religion. Things got off to a bumpy start but welcome anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I'll try responding to each of your questions/statements. Ok, so I'm reading through some of the threads and I'm thinking ...am I going to be needing to wear a bullet proof vest before I start to post? You begin by appearing already to have made a judgment against the members here and, by having said you have read through some of the threads, many of us would assume that you know what "type" of Christians who posts here need "to wear a bullet proof vest." It is those Christians, of whom many come here from time to time, who think that our having left the religion was a rebellion against god and to enable ourselves to live a sinful life. Some Christians think that if we only heard the truth, which they have and are only too willing to share with our poor ignorant souls, then we will fall on our knees and beg the almighty to forgive our lack of faith and accept us back into the fold. These Christians fail even to consider that most of us made an extensive study of the Bible, asked numerous questions of pastors and other church leaders, apologists, etc. and then came to a rational and well thought out conclusion that the religion is simply false and so chose freedom rather than slavery to a lie of huge and important proportions. If you are not one of those Christians, then no bullet proof vest is needed. Obviously there is a lot of anger, bitterness and definitely hatred towards Christians and Christianity here. There is a lot of anger and bitterness towards the religion, most especially from the newly deconverted, but also from some who have been deconverted for some time. You should try and understand that we feel we were lied to, many of us since our childhoods, by church leaders and, perhaps most importantly, by the authors of the Bible who appear to have written what they wrote as if it were the truth when we learned that it is not the truth. But it is not just the lies. It is far more than that. Many here were treated brutally once they came to their very difficult decision to leave the religion. There have been parents who have disowned their children, Christian spouses who have left their deconverted spouses all because of their decision to leave the lie of the Christian religion, lifetime Christian friends who ridicule the deconverted and exclude them from all social interaction, and a society which is saturated with the religion who push such things as having the ten commandments posted in public facilities and declare those of us who have learned the truth that the religion is false to be children of Satan (or other such derogatory terms). There is some hatred towards Christians expressed here, to be sure. However, that is less than towards the religion in general. Remember, ExC is a sanctuary of sorts for the deconverted. Many people have felt betrayed by Christians and here is the one and only place where they can express the anger and bitterness they feel. Personally, I don't hate Christians in general and many on here share my feelings, though some of the Christians I described above can be quite a challenge to deal with in terms other than contempt. Are there many threads that don't include some kind of bashing? Whether thats belittling Christians, being rude or outright hateful.... There have been some such threads when the Christian who posts does not come across as judgmental and treat the members here as dregs. Do you have any kind of respect for Christians that post on here? Or are they considered different from the ones that you rant about? Like anywhere in life, respect is not automatic. It must be earned. I can understand (at least to some degree) the feelings of bitterness and hate towards someone/something etc. I do not want to down play anything bad that has happened to anyone here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 As for Margee, she is indeed a very nice lady, but now she calls 'em as she sees 'em. Her paraphrase was spot on with what we most frequently see come out of this sort of OP here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So you are here because as I have said above you are doubting your faith and you want to see what life could be like as a ex-xtian? True or false? Also the bible to you is the word of god. So you endorse rape and murder? That's what god had his people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Finally, I don't see any issue with your expressing yourself through a bible verse in your avatar, just expect to be called on to defend it. If there were reason to believe that christianity was not a fairy tale, I would expect to be challenged on my avatar. Since you believe the bible to be all true, I would in fact not mind if you challenged me, but I'm afraid you would not find evidence to be on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It's pretty obvious to me why you've been attacked here. It's because we all recognize Christian thinking when we see it; we have all been Christians and we all used to think in the same way. There is no innocent 'asking questions' for the Christian; regarless of the situation, we were all trained (just like you were) to seize upon it and use it to further the kingdom of God. In every interaction with other people, whether it be at the supermarket checkout, talking with friends or on internet forums, Christians must seek to find a way to gently guide people back to Christ; that is just the nature of the beast, and we know this because we were all once like this. So this is why your OP is so ridiculously transparent to us and why you have been rightly called out on it. Can you answer this one question, completely honestly? WHAT WAS YOUR INTENT when posting the OP? If you say it was not to proselytize, then you are obviously a liar, since that would have to constitute at least part of your reason. If you say it WAS to proselytize, then you are in breach of the forum rules, since you can only do this in the Lion's Den. So what is your answer? Awhile back I went on a message board (it had a bible study on it) and people didn't understand why I was there. The message board belonged to a christian music group and I wasn't a fan. And they joked about converting me to like the group. Why is it so important to be on a message board for reasons only acceptable to others. I came on here to chat, talk.. communicate and get to know people. I'm aware that trying to convert people isn't allowed. I'm not getting trapped into pointless conversations. It is clear many of you know what the bible says already and I don't feel like being cornered by certain 'questions'. e.g why do you think genesis is literal. Its already a conversation you probably have had many times over with Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Okay... I can't keep up with all the others and stuff so I'll stick to my train of thought as best I can - and because I'm a curious cat. You say you believe in the bible as the word of god.. kk, now we are getting somewhere. How do you know the Bible is the word of god? Okay..wait... just saw your last post, so if you don't want to be cornered (whatever) what questions do YOU have then? You did state you had questions.. so... let's hear them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So you are here because as I have said above you are doubting your faith and you want to see what life could be like as a ex-xtian? True or false? Also the bible to you is the word of god. So you endorse rape and murder? That's what god had his people do. No, not doubting my faith... so false. No I don't endorse rape or murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Okay... I can't keep up with all the others and stuff so I'll stick to my train of thought as best I can - and because I'm a curious cat. You say you believe in the bible as the word of god.. kk, now we are getting somewhere. How do you know the Bible is the word of god? Okay..wait... just saw your last post, so if you don't want to be cornered (whatever) what questions do YOU have then? You did state you had questions.. so... let's hear them. Is there anything I could say and do (that I know of right now) that could persuade you to believe the bible is all true? Most probably not which is the real question I think. If I answered your question it would turn into a pointless debate and as I said I don't have all the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So you are here because as I have said above you are doubting your faith and you want to see what life could be like as a ex-xtian? True or false? Also the bible to you is the word of god. So you endorse rape and murder? That's what god had his people do. No, not doubting my faith... so false. No I don't endorse rape or murder. Yet in the OT god commanded his people to murder and rape. For many years I chose to ignore this fact. Now days it makes me sick to my core to think I did this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts