I've Been Doing This All Wrong

[Rek99]

The past few months, against my own advice, I've been asking my wife critical thinking questions about the bible.  Asking about the things that caused me to deconvert, with obvious intentions of trying to get her to deconvert, which always started an argument.  When she called me out on it, I would deny it, saying I'm not trying to get her to deconvert, just trying to get her to think about what she believes.  Nothing ever changed, she still thinks the world had a global flood and a few people survived, the OT was just written that was to be "culturally relevant", there really was a mass exodus, and all the other batshit crazy stuff.

 

So, I've decided to never ask her another theological question.  I'm going to continue going to church with her, I'm going to continue to teach my children science, and I'm going to continue loving my wife.  It's just not worth it for me to try and deconvert her when it will never happen, at least with me drilling her about it when every answer she will ever give is "magic".

 

I think back to the original reasons I deconverted. 

 

1) I didn't want to live a lie anymore

2) I didn't want to teach my children blatantly wrong things about the world around us

3) I didn't want to give another dime to an organization that literally does nothing that any other secular organization can do (and usually do better)

 

I've accomplished those things.  Will my children go to church?  Yes, they go every Sunday.  Do I have to pretend to agree with what the sunday school teacher says?  Absolutely not, in fact, when my son asks me about things I already tell him what I really think.

 

To me, it isn't worth sacrificing my marriage just to try and push my beliefs (or rather, knowledge) on my wife.

[deconverted]

Thanks for sharing Rek99.  I too have tried asking my wife questions, trying to get her to think beyond what she's been told in the past.  But, for her, it seems like rational thought is not that important.  She is more on the emotional side of things, and because she was brought up in the church since day one, she just has to believe it regardless of what "evidence" or argument I bring up.

 

It's interesting that you still go to church however.  I stopped going right away, even though I thought I would still be able to go.  I think I went once or twice, but I just couldn't do it.  On top of that, my wife couldn't bear to have me at church when she knew that it wasn't a "real" experience for me.  How does your wife deal with the fact that you still go and "worship" at church, yet don't believe any of it?  Does she like the fact that you still go to church?  Does she hope that maybe if you keep going you'll have a change of heart?  Just curious, as my situation is just the opposite it seems.

[Geezer]

Your story seems to follow a predictable pattern. Whether a person has just been saved or they have de-converted there appears to be predictable pattern to their newly acquired enlightenment.The new convert wants to tell the world about Jesus. The recently enlightened former believer wants to educate the world about all the negative aspects of religion especially the one they just de-converted from.  Both responses appear to be perfectly normal.

 

Wow! I just found out about something truly life changing and I want the world to know about it! Based on my own experience I’ve affectionately named this stage of faith the Paul Revere syndrome. This stage of faith is primed to create a lot of problems for the person who is experiencing it. The persons non-religious friends don’t care and don’t want to hear about your newly acquired salvation and your newly found love for Jesus. If you don’t stop preaching your friends will soon become your former friends.

 

Those of us who are going in the opposite direction have a tendency to become just as obnoxious and annoying as our newly saved counterparts. Our religious friends and family members don’t want to be subjected our preaching either. They probably are privately thinking we’ve lost our freaking minds and they don’t want to hear that their beloved Jesus ain’t the son of God or that he is more than likely just a mythical figure created by a long dead ancient culture that was in the midst of creating a new religion.

 

Like you I am married to a cradle Christian who loves God and Jesus and is probably privately concerned about my sanity. I still go to church with her. I nod politely and smile a lot while we are at church and I totally don’t listen to anything coming from the pulpit.I obtained a small library of books dealing with the history of religion while I was researching Christianity. I make sure those books are visible and accessible should she become curious, but as far as I can tell she isn’t the least bit interested.

 

Our Christian friends are still friends because they don’t know I’m no longer a believer. I don’t discuss my non-religious beliefs with my wife or our religious friends. My wife knows I am no longer a believer and she wants to leave it at that and I’m willing to accommodate her. I’ve found as long as I don’t create problems things run pretty much as they always have. I do not under any circumstances discuss religion with anyone unless I am positive they are also non-believers. If questioned by a Christian friend I simple say I don’t interpret the bible as literally as I once did. That seems to satisfy them.

 

At some point I came to the conclusion it just doesn’t matter what other people believe religiously it only matters what I believe. If there is no literal hell, heaven, Jesus, or God then there are no eternal consequences to believing or not believing. If believing in God and Jesus satisfies a need for someone then I no longer feel the need to educate them.  As long as they don’t’ want to blow me or others up, or cut my head off, their beliefs are not relevant to my life……unless I allow them to be.

[Checkmate]

Rek99, I feel your pain [having experienced the same thing], but I respectfully disagree with your current method.  You're STILL doing it wrong.

 

Yes, STOP arguing with your spouse.  It solves nothing and only causes grief.

 

However, you should also STOP attending church.  You're being a hypocrite and setting a bad example for your kids.

 

While they may be too young to understand or care about this issue NOW, what about when they're older?  How will you explain why you still attend church when you don't believe?  Aren't you setting a bad example?

 

Why not be a role model of honesty instead?  Teach your children the lesson of not compromising yourself for false beliefs and making others happy.

 

Plus when your kids get old enough to question, they'll have YOU and your strong example to guide them.

 

As I said earlier, I've been there.  I followed this path.  I quit going.  Soon after that, my sons quit going.  And now my wife hasn't attended in years.  Religion is no longer an issue in my home.

 

And I didn't argue one bit.  I simply let human nature take it's course.

 

Think about it.

 

 

[mymistake]

I think your new approach is a step in the right direction.  If you are going to go to church as an open exChristian then you are made of tougher stuff than me.  I couldn't do that.  To me it sounds stressful and a scene waiting to happen.  Maybe you have what it takes to pull it off.  More power to you.

[BDPApostate]

Rek99, I feel your pain [having experienced the same thing], but I respectfully disagree with your current method.  You're STILL doing it wrong.

 

Yes, STOP arguing with your spouse.  It solves nothing and only causes grief.

 

However, you should also STOP attending church.  You're being a hypocrite and setting a bad example for your kids.

 

While they may be too young to understand or care about this issue NOW, what about when they're older?  How will you explain why you still attend church when you don't believe?  Aren't you setting a bad example?

 

Why not be a role model of honesty instead?  Teach your children the lesson of not compromising yourself for false beliefs and making others happy.

 

Plus when your kids get old enough to question, they'll have YOU and your strong example to guide them.

 

As I said earlier, I've been there.  I followed this path.  I quit going.  Soon after that, my sons quit going.  And now my wife hasn't attended in years.  Religion is no longer an issue in my home.

 

And I didn't argue one bit.  I simply let human nature take it's course.

 

Think about it.

I stopped going one week after I came out to my wife. This was all very recent, and it is a painful road, but I feel much better about myself, and the example I am setting by not going. I have three kids, and hope they will ask me questions as they grow older, (8,6,3 now), that I can address with evidence and critical thinking. They are smart, and I think they will figure it out after hearing both sides. Getting my believing spouse to calm down and stop freaking out every time my lack of faith is "in view" is another story. I hear some people say it gets better.  

[raoul]

I think what Geezer said was the most pragmatic and sane way to go about it if you can. Especially when he shows how we can be as obnoxious in our non-beliefs as the xtians are with their beliefs. It kinda hit home for me and I'm going to follow his lead.

[Rek99]

Rek99, I feel your pain [having experienced the same thing], but I respectfully disagree with your current method.  You're STILL doing it wrong.

 

Yes, STOP arguing with your spouse.  It solves nothing and only causes grief.

 

However, you should also STOP attending church.  You're being a hypocrite and setting a bad example for your kids.

 

While they may be too young to understand or care about this issue NOW, what about when they're older?  How will you explain why you still attend church when you don't believe?  Aren't you setting a bad example?

 

Why not be a role model of honesty instead?  Teach your children the lesson of not compromising yourself for false beliefs and making others happy.

 

Plus when your kids get old enough to question, they'll have YOU and your strong example to guide them.

 

As I said earlier, I've been there.  I followed this path.  I quit going.  Soon after that, my sons quit going.  And now my wife hasn't attended in years.  Religion is no longer an issue in my home.

 

And I didn't argue one bit.  I simply let human nature take it's course.

 

Think about it.

 

Thanks for the response.  To answer someone else's question, I don't actually participate in church at all.  I sit there and play on my phone for an hour or so.  But the reasons I continue going are:

 

1) I want as little brain-washing time as possible.  Time in the car to and from church is when my wife used to talk to our kids (2 and 5) about all the things they "learned" while they were in Sunday school.  With me in the car she doesn't review any lessons with them, and I can make sure that the materials they bring home find their way to the trash.  I guess a lot of people would consider that controlling, but I wouldn't stop her from saying what she thinks.  I would just make sure that I said my piece as well.  She realizes this may cause a fight so she simply says nothing.  When the kids are a bit older, 7-10 or so, I'll stop going, but right now they are extremely impressionable and I want to be sure that they are being taught correct things.

 

2) This goes along with point 3 that I made, but I want to make sure that we don't give another dime to any religious organization.  My wife was a literal 10% tither.  During my argument phase I tried showing her the amount we tithed in years past and the amount we got from "god" and it was nowhere close.  She's a stay-at-home mom, and with one income we simply cannot afford to give away 10% of our income that could be going to retirement, college, or simply food/gas.  And, to be honest, I would throw a 2-year-old fit if she decided to go back to work and tithe 10% of her "own income".  I sure as hell don't get to waste 10% of "my income" on video games, collectibles, or some random hobby, and I wouldn't expect her to either.

[Rek99]

I think what Geezer said was the most pragmatic and sane way to go about it if you can. Especially when he shows how we can be as obnoxious in our non-beliefs as the xtians are with their beliefs. It kinda hit home for me and I'm going to follow his lead.

 

Yeah and I agree with Geezer as well.  I was definitely in the new discovery phase where I almost wanted to argue with any religious person I came across.  Now, I'd rather spend my time finding ways to get along with people rather than pointing out why they're wrong at every turn.  Shame on me really.

[Rek99]

I think your new approach is a step in the right direction.  If you are going to go to church as an open exChristian then you are made of tougher stuff than me.  I couldn't do that.  To me it sounds stressful and a scene waiting to happen.  Maybe you have what it takes to pull it off.  More power to you.

 

10 years ago I couldn't do it, but these days there are so many good phone games that I don't mind.  I can't believe they ported Final Fantasy Tactics to iOS, it is easily one of my top 10 favorite games, and now I can play it while spending time with the lawd!

[RipVanWinkle]

Geezer;: I think you are absolutely right. I went through the same mistakes as the OP did. It's depressing to think that atheist are as bad as chistians in trying to change christians' world view. I think it is a result on the refusal of the christians to use reason in their arguments. But, you're right; there is no reason for me to beat myself up about it. Been there; done that.     bill

[TrueFreedom]

I'm glad that you've found an arrangement that's working for you, Rek.  I spent a long time planting seeds while continuing to attend church and tithe before even coming out to my wife about my unbelief.  After revealing my apostasy I would pass notes to her about passages in the sermon and where the pastor had his facts wrong.  My wife and kids all eventually decided that they were tired of church.  That's when we stopped attending, together.

[Ellwood]

I cast my vote for not going to church.   On the other hand my children are all adults now so I have to concede a bit to your argument of overseeing the whole Sunday AM activities.   I will give you some leeway there.

For me the going or not going just got too messy.   I went a few months ago and got a hassle big time from the wife because apparently I walked near the pastor and didn't say hi.   I honestly didn't see him in my rush to get out of the place where most folks would see me as a nut.   Later I discovered all kinds of conjecture about why I didn't say hi between her and the pastor.   I was angry, gawd was speaking to me, I was feeling pressure from the holy parrot.  gesh!!   

Then I didn't go when my grandson was in a christmyth program.   Well now they expressed shock that I would not attend to see my grandson.   How angry, how sad, how self-centered I had become.   Gesh!  Again!

 

So I have stood my ground on not going.   Much of it is simply wanting to be true to my self and not wanting to waste anymore time then I already have during my life.   I am 58 and only deconverted a year ago.   

So, now I stay home mostly, Go for breakfast with a friend.  Sail or kayak.   

Last Sunday I actually attended a Unitarian Church.  I concluded I would rather kayak.   :-)

 

On bringing up religion, I NEVER do that but she pokes and pokes and pokes.  You know what I mean?  Did I mention she pokes?   Until I blow.   Long story short.   I have taken huge steps to make sure she knows that poking = divorce.   "Go ahead, make my day".

 

And all this drama is supposed to reconvert me how?

[Rek99]

Thanks for sharing, Ellwood.  Oddly enough, part of the reason that I feel so bad about being so pushy is that (after the initial 1/2 month shock of deconversion) my wife has been very hands off.  She doesn't try and bug me about reconverting and doesn't ask me to read any books.  My guess is that she knows I don't subscribe to invisible untestable BS and I have made that very clear.

[J.W.]

I think it is wise to be supportive of your wife, and let her believe what she wants-- but do YOU really have to go to church? In stead of asking questions, why not just stop going?

-----------------------------

nevermind, I really need to read a whole thread before I post.. still have yet though

[Checkmate]

 

Thanks for the response....

 

1) I want as little brain-washing time as possible.  Time in the car to and from church is when my wife used to talk to our kids (2 and 5) about all the things they "learned" while they were in Sunday school.  With me in the car she doesn't review any lessons with them, and I can make sure that the materials they bring home find their way to the trash.  I guess a lot of people would consider that controlling, but I wouldn't stop her from saying what she thinks.  I would just make sure that I said my piece as well.  She realizes this may cause a fight so she simply says nothing.  When the kids are a bit older, 7-10 or so, I'll stop going, but right now they are extremely impressionable and I want to be sure that they are being taught correct things.

 

2) This goes along with point 3 that I made, but I want to make sure that we don't give another dime to any religious organization.  My wife was a literal 10% tither.  During my argument phase I tried showing her the amount we tithed in years past and the amount we got from "god" and it was nowhere close.  She's a stay-at-home mom, and with one income we simply cannot afford to give away 10% of our income that could be going to retirement, college, or simply food/gas.  And, to be honest, I would throw a 2-year-old fit if she decided to go back to work and tithe 10% of her "own income".  I sure as hell don't get to waste 10% of "my income" on video games, collectibles, or some random hobby, and I wouldn't expect her to either.

 

Makes perfect sense.  Seems to me like you've got the correct plan.  I withdraw my objections.  Good luck!!

[Lilith666]

Good plan. If the Xians' proselytizing doesn't work, why would ours? All conversion efforts do is annoy people....it's the same for everyone. Too bad some Xians can't figure that out.

[mcdaddy]

I'm exactly 100% in your boat. It gets much better.