Email From My Former Pastor

[Guest MadameX]

 

I also would love to see the reactions if I threw the atheist word in my family.  I could get away with being pantheist, but I think atheist would cause some problems.

 

 

 

I WANT that t-shirt!!

[HymenaeusAlexander]

 

 

I also would love to see the reactions if I threw the atheist word in my family.  I could get away with being pantheist, but I think atheist would cause some problems.

 

 

 

I WANT that t-shirt!!

 

 

Richard Wade is the cartoonist and he made one for himself that you can see in the pictures here. There are others out there on Cafe Press and Teach the Controversy, but they don't combine the teapot with WWBRD.

[JoeinArkansas]

About two months ago my wife and I informed the session of our PCA church that we no longer believed in the basic tenets of Christianity and were leaving. About four days later the pastor and another elder sat in my living room, listened to some of the objections from my wife and I and proceeded to tell us he had answers for all of them. Two days after that meeting we got an email from the pastor in which he stated there was a lot of material for us to go through or as he put it “enough reading for a semester at RTS.” He started with some book recommendations for us that dealt with canon formation and inspiration along an invitation to dialogue through email about the books. I told him:

 

 

I’m not interested in beginning a course load that’s the equivalent of a semester at seminary. You are the one who is the seminary trained pastor. You should be able to condense these arguments without us having to go through hundreds of pages of old Princetonians just to get to the point…So before you send over any books for starting points of discussion, whet my appetite with what you think are their best arguments in addition to which specific question we’ve raised they address.

 

 

He did not. Regardless, I agreed to read and discuss what he sent and offered the alternate suggestion of actually engaging the text of the Bible itself since that’s what was creating the most problems for me. I sent him my comments on Exodus 1-19 (about 7,000 words or less than 18 pages typed) with the caveat, “I’m just throwing some stuff out as a starting point so you can see why I don’t view the Bible as inspired, inerrant and infallible anymore.” This was his response in a larger font and bold type:

 

 

>

You've sent me an almost 7500 word email with about 100 questions and assertions–– most of which appear to stem from an extremely skeptical and anti-supernatural posture. Even if I thought it necessary to answer this barrage of questions, there simply isn't enough time to do so. You may view this as a cop-out, but it would take me hours upon hours to answer this first installment of your questions…Perhaps you will see my unwillingness to answer your questions as some kind of a concession. It's not. It's just an unwillingness, at this point, to engage at the micro-level (ie massive emails with dozens of questions)...Perhaps you will spend some time with the resources that we will send you now. But please know that I'm not looking to debate with you and spend hours responding to your myriad questions (something that you mentioned you weren't interested in doing either, if I recall correctly).  Rather I hope to provide you with some helpful resources in order to answer some of your deep philosophical and theological questions, if you are interested.

 

 

I responded by reminding him that he was asking me to read and respond to nearly a thousand pages of works from professional theologians about subjects he wanted to discuss. I told him I did indeed see it as a cop-out on his part and that I was very disappointed to see my objections dismissed out of hand. I summed it up thusly:

 

 

 

What I'm hearing is that you're not interested in even considering my objections. You refuse to engage me on the points I wish to discuss. You will not approach me as an equal. You want to dictate the terms of the discussion and preach at me. This is not a dialogue. Your sermons are available online. If I want to hear them I can access them.

 

 

I got a book on canon formation in the mail a couple of weeks later. It had been mailed directly from the church. He couldn’t even drop it off at my house. I decided to humor him and give it a shot. I read it and wrote a 10 page response that I gave to another elder who actually had the balls to stop by and pick up the book along with my comments.

 

This was the email I got last night from the pastor in response:

 

 

 

It was with sadness that I read over your comments on "Canon Revisited." Of course, I appreciate the fact that you read the book–– not many in your position would have. But it is clear to me that there is a deeply skeptical and even cynical heart driving your doubt.  [my name], while we could argue all day about epistemological grounds, presuppositions, and biases that we all live with to some degree or another, it is obvious that you are as "biased" and "certain" in your doubt of and disdain for the Christian Faith as any Christian believer may be in his faith in, and love for the triune God and His inspired Word. Christ lived, died and rose again in the first century. He blessed and supernaturally superintended the formation of the Canon. Even with all the mystery in the process, I believe that.  Christ radically changed my life 20 years ago (I know that you call this an emotional experience). He answers my prayers in ways that are gloriously unexplainable apart from the truth of God's Word. You may call it superstition or emotionalism or intellectual weakness, but I will, along with Scripture, and Christians throughout the ages, call it faith.  I recognized that there is much mystery and difficulty wrapped up in history and the doctrine of Scripture. None of it has, however, caused me to question the veracity of it all and to throw out the whole. Things niggle at me from time to time in the study while studying Scripture, but the answers I receive from commentators or theologians or historians almost always satisfy. When they, at times, do not completely satisfy, I'm happy to trust that a good answer will be provided in time (and I'm not talking about the fundamentals of the faith, here, but rather, small issues that emerge from time to time). I suppose this is why I would have hoped you would have come to us before you were so utterly entrenched in your doubt. 

 

I have written, re-written, and erased a dozen paragraphs. My desire is not to cross swords on these issues. I suppose, at the end of the day, what I really want to do is to express my love to you, [my wife], and the children, and to let you know that we miss you very much.

 

With Love,

 

 

My desire is not to cross swords? What does this mean? I wasn’t worth the effort? I’m hopeless? He’s afraid? This man was my friend. Our children played soccer together. I traveled with him into the heart of the violent slum of a developing country to preach the gospel. He’s letting me go this easily? All I get is the tu quoque fallacy, a fedeistic appeal to his subjective experience, an admission that he regularly engages in confirmation bias and the accusation that I should’ve come to him earlier? After all the effort I put into reading and responding to the topic he chose? He just wants to express his love? What the actual F*ck?!

 

I know he’s at a loss and saddened and this is really rocking his world, but what he’s effectively done by avoiding my arguments is remove any doubt I ever had that my objections cannot be reasonably addressed and that at the very least his version of Christianity is utter bullshit. I guess I can thank him for that.

 

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

[Annier]

Big loud audible sigh  @ JoeinArkansas

 

[mymistake]

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

 

Wow.  You know the right meaning of the Bible?  Oh boy!  I have searched my whole life for the one who has found the hidden meaning.  I'm so glad you blessed us with your gift.  You are the one who can see when the whole world is blind.  Oh bless us with your God given understanding.

[NeverAgainV]

 

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

 

wow...I've heard all of that before.....so glad to be out of that type of thinking.

Joe...I hope someday you'll be able to think for yourself & realize that no good god is anything that resembles the god of the bible.

NeverAgainV

 

[pratt]

i just know it,,

 

must be the secret passages in the bible that i missed,,,,,

 

probably the numerology,,, and skip every other words or something,,,,,

[owen652]

Thanks Joe, I needed a good laugh tonight

[♦ ficino ♦]

Joe, are you a POE?

[Deva]

Wow Joe, it must be nice to be so special.  Everyone is wrong but you and the rest of the "elect". I can't be too hard on you though, if you believe everyone will be saved in the end. That is universalism and I sort of like that.

[raoul]

Amazing - another deluded soul comes along and tells us how he's so different from the rest of the cultists. He tells us that jaysus is so special and we should just follow him and then uses the freaking OLD TESTAMENT to support the delusion. Amazing!

[HymenaeusAlexander]

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum. I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.

Hey Joe,

 

Thank you for your concern and welcome to the board. Whether by divine providence or dumb luck, you’ve decided to make your first post a reply to my little rant, so I’ll consider that a compliment.

 

If you’re genuinely concerned and would like a bit of insight into my situation, you might start here. The summary version is I left my past church because I didn’t believe what most would consider the basic claims of Christianity. You know, little stuff like Jesus rising from the dead, the virgin birth, the historicity of most of the Old Testament. That sort of thing.

 

What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.

 

This is precisely the conclusion I’ve reached, although it may extend a bit farther than that.

 

Please don't misunderstand me though. I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures…

 

Well, I’d like to clear up a misunderstanding as well. You may have missed part of my original post in this thread, so in the interests of clearing up a possible misunderstanding I’ll put it here:

 

"I sent him my comments on Exodus 1-19 (about 7,000 words or less than 18 pages typed) with the caveat, 'I’m just throwing some stuff out as a starting point so you can see why I don’t view the Bible as inspired, inerrant and infallible anymore.'”

 

So you see, that was a major sticking point for me.

 

…but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.

 

Yes, I’ve heard this before. It’s a different way of stating what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2. But I fear I’m one of those people who just looks at the scriptures and sees a work of man full of contradictions, archaic moral codes, bad cosmology, bad biology and often downright nonsense. Thus, I’m probably not one of those persons chosen by Christ to understand. No, I’m afraid I’m one of those people to whom God sent a strong delusion so that I might be condemned (1 Thess. 2:11-12). It seems the god of this world has blinded my mind to keep me from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ (2 Cor. 12:40). I’m afraid your gnostic proclamations will only fall on deaf ears. Best to shake the dust off your feet and move on. Or maybe stick around and try to learn about folks first. Your call.

 

The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be. Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.

 

See now, I thought it was because the Bible is so full of contradictory doctrines that once the Roman Catholic Church could no longer control the spin and every literate plebeian could read it for themselves, people could conclude whatever they wanted. Like the RCC had done for centuries, they could make it say whatever they wanted. It’s going to take some convincing to show me that your group got it right, though.

 

But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.

 

This kind of reminds me of

.

 

However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand. Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can. Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church. Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age. Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind. All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.

 

So which Charles is this coming from? Charles Taze Russel or Charles Manson? Forgive me, because I get my “Charles” cult leaders confused.

 

I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying

 

I’m sure you could.

 

(assuming you believe scripture)

 

Yes, well. Therein lies the problem.

 

But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

I’m sure pots of gold at the end of rainbows are worth finding too. I leave that quest to Lucky the Leprechaun and I leave seeking the Lord to people who still believe in Bronze Age mythology.

 

Proverbs 29:20 Do you see someone who speaks in haste? There is more hope for a fool than for them.

 

Again, welcome to the board. I really do hope you’ll stick around. I apologize if I came off a bit snarkey, but in truth your post kind of pissed me off a little. I'm sure you meant well, but it probably wasn't the best way to introduce yourself to the board. But hey, we're all about second chances here at Ex-C. Right, guys? Guys?

[mymistake]

i just know it,,

 

must be the secret passages in the bible that i missed,,,,,

 

probably the numerology,,, and skip every other words or something,,,,,

 

Most people read the words horizontally.  But the first word of every line spells out a secret message (from God) if you read them vertically.

[Thought2Much]

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

WOW, you're one of Christ's Elect?   Thank you so much for blessing us with your presence here.

 

HEY, LOOK EVERYBODY! ONE OF CHRIST'S ELECT IS POSTING HERE ON EX-C!

[Akheia]

H.A., I'm pretty sure he was just trolling. Nobody could be that stupid as to think that huckster schtick would work on anybody but already-true-blue believers. Don't worry about it too much.

[HymenaeusAlexander]

H.A., I'm pretty sure he was just trolling. Nobody could be that stupid as to think that huckster schtick would work on anybody but already-true-blue believers. Don't worry about it too much.

 

I suspected as much, but my poe-detector has been known to come down on the wrong side of things to the embarrassment of both myself and the poor soul I've misjudged. In this case I decided to err on the side of taking someone at their word.

[JadedAtheist]

H.A., I'm pretty sure he was just trolling. Nobody could be that stupid as to think that huckster schtick would work on anybody but already-true-blue believers. Don't worry about it too much.

I think if anything, the guy is a few cans short of a six-pack. Having met plenty of mentally ill people with religious delusions while my mother was treated, he certainly strikes me as someone in that ballpark.

[raoul]

 

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

WOW, you're one of Christ's Elect?   Thank you so much for blessing us with your presence here.

 

HEY, LOOK EVERYBODY! ONE OF CHRIST'S ELECT IS POSTING HERE ON EX-C!

ROFL!!!

[Akheia]

 

H.A., I'm pretty sure he was just trolling. Nobody could be that stupid as to think that huckster schtick would work on anybody but already-true-blue believers. Don't worry about it too much.

 

I suspected as much, but my poe-detector has been known to come down on the wrong side of things to the embarrassment of both myself and the poor soul I've misjudged. In this case I decided to err on the side of taking someone at their word.

 

It's almost too bad the RCC had its schisms in the Tudor age. Letting people come up with their own horseshit explanations for the Bible's weirdness was not our smoothest move ever as a species.

[msipsy218]

[Akheia]

I just noticed Michael's chewing with his mouth open. Yuck!

 

How did i never notice that out of all the times I've seen that video and all the times I've seen that GIF?

[NeverAgainV]

OMFG, that guy is straight out of the "christian cults from hell"...seriously.

Only the truly saved will understand the truth^tm (and of course nobody has it...but him & his group??)

ALL OTHER DENOMINATIONS ARE WRONG.....

FEW..meaning they can't really convince most people they have god's truth,(most people will realize he's full of it,  but unfortunately some naive folks they can fool & those are the "few")

 

I'm sure that dude is believing the calvinist christianity, who believe they and they only have bible religion right. Basically the "elect" are those who do exactly what the religious leader says & only attend their church...UGH

 

Damn...I'm so glad that I see clearly now & will not be fooled by the likes of those types of people who make a living telling others how to live & what to believe!!

Praise Reason we got out!!! FREE AT LAST....FREE AT LAST (appropriate for MLK day today )

[JoeinArkansas]

 

 

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

 

wow...I've heard all of that before.....so glad to be out of that type of thinking.

Joe...I hope someday you'll be able to think for yourself & realize that no good god is anything that resembles the god of the bible.

NeverAgainV

 

Dear Neveragain,

You have no idea who the God of scripture is.  He is not the one who is proclaimed by the "churches".  He loves All of mankind and would never hurt anyone in the fabled "hell" that the churches teach.  He will judge us all but that judgment is for the purpose of producing righteousness within us.  Someday, He will cause you do desire that righteousness above all things - but probably not in this life time.  Heaven is our spiritual change, not a location.  All the churches view scripture through carnal eyes.  To know God, it takes spiritual understanding and that type of understanding is reserved in this age to Christ's Elect.  The mass of people in the churches would cast the true Christ out of their midst if He ever chose to visit them.  The churches are ALL following the ways of Satan and his ways are carnal and not the ways of Christ.  Christ said his words that He speaks are "spirit".  To understand and believe words of spirit, it takes spiritual understanding.  Someday God will make you give account for every careless word you speak concerning Him.  But in the end, you too will enter the Kingdom of Heaven and be changed forever into the image of God - the image at present you do not know or desire. 

Joe

[JoeinArkansas]

 

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

 

Wow.  You know the right meaning of the Bible?  Oh boy!  I have searched my whole life for the one who has found the hidden meaning.  I'm so glad you blessed us with your gift.  You are the one who can see when the whole world is blind.  Oh bless us with your God given understanding.

I am not the only one who has been blessed by God and given eyes that can see and ears that can hear.  You probably have never met one of us because those who truly seek to follow Christ are not part of any organized church.   For the most part, we do not know each other.  Our fellowship is with Christ and the One who sent Him.  I have not come to this forum to "convert" anyone.  In fact, my purpose is to help those ex-christians who still have a measure of faith but have left the churches for one reason or another.  They know that there is something wrong with the churches and her doctrines but don't know where to find the truth anymore.   For that type of person, I can show them the true Christ if they have not given up seeking to know Him.  I am not here for anyone else because there is nothing I can give them that they might accept.

Joe   

[JoeinArkansas]

Joe, are you a POE?

 

What is POE?  Please explain.  But whatever it is, I can assure you that I am not a POE.  I am simply a person who seeks to know and follow Christ.  I am not affiliated with any groups or persons other than Christ.

Joe