Email From My Former Pastor

[Akheia]

Oh, I'm sure Joe has an explanation that'll make total sense out of the three different stories.

[HymenaeusAlexander]

Oh, I'm sure Joe has an explanation that'll make total sense out of the three different stories.

 

There are ways to figure out how to understand scripture. It's a lot like

.

[Ravenstar]

Another hit and run True Christian^™ maybe?

 

I hope JoeinArkansas comes back, I can practice my new gentler, more tolerant (hopefully constructive) criticism.

 

Thumbelina's no fun.

 

Funny how this thread is about how we've been treated after leaving the fold... hmmmmmm

[BendyLine]

 

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

 

It wasn't a horse. It was a colt. Oh, wait. Shit. It was a donkey and it's colt. Dammit. I can never keep that straight for some reason.

Psssh. It was a donkey and a colt. They just didn't mention the donkey in the first passage because God had something burning on the stove when he was dictating it to Luke, and he forgot to mention the donkey. 

[HymenaeusAlexander]

 

 

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

 

It wasn't a horse. It was a colt. Oh, wait. Shit. It was a donkey and it's colt. Dammit. I can never keep that straight for some reason.

Psssh. It was a donkey and a colt. They just didn't mention the donkey in the first passage because God had something burning on the stove when he was dictating it to Luke, and he forgot to mention the donkey. 

 

Ah, yes, inerrantist apologetics rule #46:

 

No two (or more) claimed numbers that are different can ever be a contradiction because one number is always smaller than the other(s) and will be thusly claimed to be a subset of the other(s).

[pratt]

come on you guys, you must have a spiritual insight to understand the word of god,,,

 

let me give you another clue,,,,

 

the "almost" naked man running out of the garden when jesus was caught,,,,

 

if you understand the significance of it, you are getting close tonunderstand the kingdom of heaven,,,,

[Ravenstar]

snicker

[mymistake]

come on you guys, you must have a spiritual insight to understand the word of god,,,

 

let me give you another clue,,,,

 

the "almost" naked man running out of the garden when jesus was caught,,,,

 

if you understand the significance of it, you are getting close tonunderstand the kingdom of heaven,,,,

 

 

I thought that guy was a nod to Homer's Odyessy.

[HymenaeusAlexander]

 

come on you guys, you must have a spiritual insight to understand the word of god,,,

 

let me give you another clue,,,,

 

the "almost" naked man running out of the garden when jesus was caught,,,,

 

if you understand the significance of it, you are getting close tonunderstand the kingdom of heaven,,,,

 

 

I thought that guy was a nod to Homer's Odyessy.

 

Maybe. Although I think a better case could be made for Eutychus being a nod to Elpenor. The writer of Luke/Acts was a big fan of the classics too.

[NeverAgainV]

 

Oh, I'm sure Joe has an explanation that'll make total sense out of the three different stories.

 

There are ways to figure out how to understand scripture. It's a lot like

.

Oh I had a feeling it'd be from Monty Python & the Holy Grail...that is precious!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!

[midniterider]

Dear HymenaeusAlexander,

This is my first post on this forum.  I'm not sure what your specific problems were with the teachings of your past church so I can't be specific in my comments.  What I can tell you is that the mainstream teachings of ALL organized churches are false.  Please don't misunderstand me though.  I believe in Jesus Christ and the truth of the scriptures but the meaning of the scriptures is hidden/concealed to everyone except to those persons chosen by Christ to understand.  The churches of mainstream Christianty are spiritually blind - always have been and always will be.  Because of their blindness, there are almost too many different types of churches to count.  But that confusion is all in accordance with the plan of God.  However, from those same blind Christians who make up those harlot churches, Christ does choose a "few" to understand.   Once they have been given the ability to understand, they (like me) flee out of those churches as fast as they can.  Those people who are "called out" are the Elect and have been chosen to be His true church.  Only those "chosen few" will be given salvation at the end of this age.  Those who make up the true church are the "first fruits" of the harvest of mankind.  All the rest of mankind will be brought to salvation in the final age.  I could give you plenty of scripture to support what I am saying (assuming you believe scripture).  If your problems with the church were not with its teachings but with your own personal faith, then I probably can't help you.  Only Christ can solve that issue.  If you do have problems with specific doctrines and that is the reason you left, then you were right to do so.  But don't give up on seeking the Lord - He is worth finding.

 

Prov 2:1-5  My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding;  yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

 

Joe in Arkansas

 

So I can either 1) waste my life reading the bible now or 2) do whatever the fuck I want and Jesus will reprogram me later in the 'final age' ? I choose option 2.

[RipVanWinkle]

Joe: Just in case you haven't abandoned this ship, I would like to point something out to you that you probably don't know. The exchristians here are not insensitive people. You have received a lot of barbs here and you may erroneously think exchristians just love to send zingers Christians' way. Not true, at least not of all of us and probably none of us. We have, by definition, all been Christians. We know the beliefs and the tactics that you guys think god wants you to use. Most of us have used those tactics or similar ones. But we also know the logical and factual errors that either were shoved or sneaked down your throats. How do we know there are logical and factual errors? Because we, unlike you, have had the courage to check them against reality. Against the truth. And that, my friend, is the truth, for real.

 

So we've been here before. We know that Xtians who come hear are not interested in anything we have to say. Not a single thing. No Christians who have come here to my knowledge have had the courage to actually listen in earnest. Oh, we get self righteous Bible quotes and are told silly things that we know as a matter of fact are untrue, such as the claim that we left the faith so that we could sin all we wanted and have no one to have to account to. You guys refuse accept the honest truth that that is not the reason we deconverted. You guys want us to forget all we have learned after many years (in most cases) of independent study and after all our soul searching and just take your word for it that we all are mistaken and that we should just follow your assurance that the whole Bible is absolutely true. And anybody that disagrees just does so because they love sin! How arrogant can you be? You want us to take your word even though you and your fellow self-deceived xtians are afraid to objectively review and understand our reasons for leaving the faith. You won't read what we have read because it would test your faith beyond your ability to bear it. Or so you believe. And it would, if you are intelligently honest. And that's just what you refuse to be. Come to your senses and remove your blinders.  bill

[JoeinArkansas]

Joe, I've been down the road of "we've got the bible truth & all those others are doing the devil's bidding...." NONSENSE for way too long.

 

You know you should look into it yourself & you might be able to free yourself from the vice grip of that hurtful & damaging cult. I do mean that because I was exactly where you are right now & it was a prison.

I hope someday that you can look outside of the religious box you are in because there is true freedom outside of toxic religion.

Maybe if you read with an open mind around here you actually might truly learn a few things.

 

Those peddlers of "oh, we don't have religion but we have the truth^tm are the ones that if there is a "God" will have a hell of a lot of answering to do, because if you ask me folks that peddle what you are peddling are not making the world a better place. Oh....they make it better for the religious LEADERS by feathering their nests, they get themselves a following of people who pay them $$$ & give them homage every sunday with the "what a great sermon pastor!!"...a whole lot of ego boosting & narcissistic supply for the leaders. I'll NEVER go back.

 

Peddling bible religion is a great gig here in the ole US of A...lots of bucks the man of god makes...lots of lauding the mog, lots of people who follow & give their hard earned $$$ to someone who makes their living

taking ADVANTAGE of the superstitions & gullibility of other human beings.

 

I've read the bible & studied it and guess what....reading that book is what made me realize that the bible is no holy word of any good god. It's blasphemous of anything that is good & it causes good people to

do terrible things. I know what you & people who think like you believe about me & others who reject your religion.  I've been condemned to hell, called an "enemy of god" & all other sorts of nastiness that I've had hurled at me by believers because I have chosen to actually question that religion. I don't care what people who think like you do believe about me. As far as bible-god goes, I AM his enemy & I will be his enemy because bible god is a horrific fantasy creation of men who had nothing better to do except to try to CONTROL others & make themselves judges over other people. They've cause a LOT of damage & I for one refuse to be held hostage by those fear tactics anymore.

 

Dear NeverAgain,

Please read my other posts on this thread and you will see that I believe the scriptures are not meant to be understood by this world but only by the very few whom Christ has chosen before the world was created.   It is a closed book for everyone else.  Also, I do not "peddle" the Word of God as do the organized churches.  They not only peddle it but what they are selling is a fraud.  Back in 2005 I was freed from those churches and I had tried many.  The truth of scripture is NOTHING like what you have been taught nor what any of the organized churches teach.  The truth that I have found has truly set me free from them and her plagues.

 

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

The plaques of the harlot churches are many which include their doctrines of tithing, eternal hell, the trinity, free will, and no assurance of salvation.  In fact, they do not even know what salvation is and the purpose behind it.   It is all hidden from them. 

 

I do not think anything bad of you.  In fact, you are exactly where God wants you to be at this time.  Hell is a christian hoax and a lie from Satan.  The reason you seem to hate the church is because they are teaching the ways of Satan and not the ways of God.  God is not some monster who would ever torment someone in fire for all eternity and to make it worse, they teach that He doesn't even have a redeeming purpose for doing so.  Do you know that scripture says that God considers a harlot christian worst off than an unbeliever such as yourself?  Christ says that He finds them so repugnant that He will spew them out of His mouth.  For many of them, their judgment will be in wrath.  But as with all mankind, our judgment is limited to correcting us and teaching us His true righteousness and not the wickedness that comes from the harlot churches. 

 

Concerning your last paragraph on the church, I agree with most of what you said, especially "They've caused a LOT of damage & I for one refuse to be held hostage by those fear tactics anymore."

 

You have done well to have broken out from their plagues but you have yet to find the true Christ.  The God I know will someday will come to you, not because you have done anything worthy of Him coming to you but merely because He loves you and is not willing to let you perish.   He is the Savior and He is the One who does the saving.  You can do nothing to save youself.  And that is why Christ came to the earth in the first place and will someday He will come to you personally.

Joe

[Astreja]

Joe, if we can do nothing to save ourselves, why are we discussing this with you?  By your own admission you aren't in control of your own destiny, and by Oðinn and dear, sweet Uncle Loki, you can't help us either.

 

And personally, I think "the true Christ" is a myth, and that no one past, present or future will ever be in the presence of your god... Except in their imaginations.

 

I don't think you're saved, either.  I am of the opinion that when you die you will lose consciousness, forget everything you know and everything you believe, and eventually be broken down into your component atoms and molecules.  You're star stuff from the Big Bang and will be here as long as the universe is here, but "JoeinArkansas" has an expiry date.

[mymistake]

Please read my other posts on this thread and you will see that I believe the scriptures are not meant to be understood by this world but only by the very few whom Christ has chosen before the world was created.  

 

It really doesn't matter what you believe.

 

 

 The truth of scripture is NOTHING like what you have been taught nor what any of the organized churches teach.

 

The truth of scripture is that the Bible was written by men and then rewritten over and over agian by more men until the original words were lost.  The truth of scripture is that the Bible is the word of men.  The Bible is no better than any other work of men.  In fact it is a lot worse than most of human literature.

 

 

I do not think anything bad of you.  In fact, you are exactly where God wants you to be at this time.  Hell is a christian hoax and a lie from Satan.  The reason you seem to hate the church is because they are teaching the ways of Satan and not the ways of God.

 

There is no Satan and there is no God.  It is ironic that you talk about a hoax being perpetrated by an actual hoax.

 

 

Do you know that scripture says that God considers a harlot christian worst off than an unbeliever such as yourself? 

 

You still haven't figured out where you are.  What part of the interwebs is this?  EX-Christian net

 

 

Christ says that He finds them so repugnant that He will spew them out of His mouth. 

 

It was a story.  Darth Vader telling Luke that they are father and son was far more important in the grand scheme.

 

 

You have done well to have broken out from their plagues but you have yet to find the true Christ.

 

I already told you.  The truth is that Jesus Christ was invented by Paul.  Christ does not appear in any writing before Paul.  After Paul made the idea popular others wrote gospels including Mark, Luke Matthew and then much later even John.  Those four are just as legitimate as all the other gospels such as Thomas, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Judas and dozens more.  When the Roman Empire took over Christianity they choose writings that fit their own need.  From those they created the Bible.

 

 

The God I know will someday will come to you, not because you have done anything worthy of Him coming to you but merely because He loves you and is not willing to let you perish.

 

The God you know can't do that because you imagination only works in your mind.  It has no power except between your ears. 

 

 

Now I would suggest that you stop posting outside of the Lion's Den before a moderator figures out what you are doing and punishes you.

[JoeinArkansas]

Joe, I have a handful of questions...

 

1. How did you come by this special knowledge of Christ?

 

2. Please explain the passage from Genesis 4: 2-5  in the context of your beliefs about Elect vs. Non-Elect.

 

3. Are you beliefs based either wholly or partially on the passage from Romans 11: 5-7?

 

4. Wouldn't there be a zero percent chance that you could convert anyone given the limitations imposed on you by god as written in John 6:37 and 6:44?

 

5. Do you believe that god will rapture his elect?

 

 

 

As an aside, I can totally see Akheia as a unicorn-riding space princess.

Dear Jose,

I will quickly try to answer you questions but I am limited on time.

 

1. How did you come by this special knowledge of Christ?  Christ healed my spiritual vision back on Oct. 8, 2005.  From that day forward, the scriptures opened up to me.  Not that I have all understanding, no one does but Christ.  But I was given the ability to find and believe His truth after spending large amounts of time studying and praying.  I still learn from scripture and I probably will until the day I die.  As one spiritual matures, more and more of the hidden knowledge of God opens up to them. 

 

There is much written in scripture about Christ coming to heal the vision of His Elect for those who have eyes to see it.  In scripture, it is frequently called the second coming of Christ.

 

2. Please explain the passage from Genesis 4: 2-5  in the context of your beliefs about Elect vs. Non-Elect.  Neither Able or Cain are one of the Elect.  The Elect of Christ started with the apostles.  All Old Testament saints will not receive the blessings of the church. 

 

3. Are you beliefs based either wholly or partially on the passage from Romans 11: 5-7?   The "remnant" spoken of here is not the Elect.  They are a "type" of the Elect but as I said above, the Old Testament saints were not blessed to be in Christ's church.  The church is made up of persons who Christ chose before they were even born.  The harlot church teaches that all you have to do is say a "sinner's prayer" and you are in the church.  Not so.  We cannot choose ourselves into His church.  He must choose us and His choosing was done a long time ago.  But salvation will come to the rest of mankind in the final age - the age where the harlot church says we will be burning in hell.  Salvation is not limited to His church. they are merely the first group to be saved.   Salvation is not limited at all because Christ has said that He will come to each of us in "due time" just has He came to His church.  The main difference being is that the church is the first fruits of His harvest, all others will be harvested into the Kingdom of Heaven later BEFORE Christ is finished with HIS WORK.  

 

4. Wouldn't there be a zero percent chance that you could convert anyone given the limitations imposed on you by god as written in John 6:37 and 6:44?  I can convert no one, only the harlot church makes that claim.  And yes, they do convert people but it is NOT into Christ's church but into Satan's church who masquerades as Christ.  Satan is the antichrist whom the Harlot church follows.  As you might imagine,  I have been kicked out of many so-called chrisitian forums for making that claim. 

 

John 6:37  All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

Eventually, the Father will draw all mankind to Christ.  John 6:37 says ALL that the Father has given Christ will come to Him.  What is missing from that verse is this:

 

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

 

The Father has given "all things" to Christ which includes all of mankind.  The church will be saved first and then Christ will use the church to help bring in the final harvest of mankind in the final age.  It really is quite a blessing to be one of His Elect but as I said, He chooses us, we do not get to volunteer.

 

5. Do you believe that god will rapture his elect?  The term "rapture" is not in scripture but as the harlot church teaches, it represents the resurrection of the Elect.  So yes, certainly the Elect will be resurrected back to life after they die but so is everyone else.  The main difference being is that Christ has already judged His Elect in the life and upon their resurrection they will receive the full measure of the Holy Spirit and will at that time enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.  All others who will be resurrected later will go to judgment, from which they too will be drawn to Christ, learn righteousness and finally be made into the image of God just as the Elect were.  No one will be lost - not even the worst of mankind. 

 

I am impressed by your questions.  You seem to have a good knowledge of scripture verses.  Because of the scary picture you have posted of yourself on the forum, I didn't expect as much from you.  I say that with the best of intentions.

Joe

[JoeinArkansas]

Oh, and by the way, JoeinArkansas, your proselytizing anywhere but in The Lion's Den section of this forum is against the board rules. Why didn't your god tell you that? Not that people who hear voices in their heads ever seem to care about rules, so you probably think this doesn't apply to you.

 

You have not understood my posts.  I am not seeking anyone to join my church or group - I have none.  All I am seeking is to help explain the truth of scripture to persons who still have faith in Christ but have left organized religion for other reasons.  I certainly am not looking to recruit people into a church or group of any kind.   Only a "harlot" seeks to do such a thing. 

Joe

[mymistake]

 

Oh, and by the way, JoeinArkansas, your proselytizing anywhere but in The Lion's Den section of this forum is against the board rules. Why didn't your god tell you that? Not that people who hear voices in their heads ever seem to care about rules, so you probably think this doesn't apply to you.

 

You have not understood my posts.  I am not seeking anyone to join my church or group - I have none.  All I am seeking is to help explain the truth of scripture to persons who still have faith in Christ but have left organized religion for other reasons.  I certainly am not looking to recruit people into a church or group of any kind.   Only a "harlot" seeks to do such a thing. 

Joe

 

(Oh boy, this is a stubborn one.) 

 

Hey we have tried to help you but we don't have the power to make you listen.  Now I would greatly appreciate it if you would drop sexist words such as "harlot".  That is no way for civilized people to talk to each other.  This is the 21st century after all.  If you won't be nice to us then don't cry about it if we are not nice to you.

[JoeinArkansas]

@ joe from Arkansas.  I'm new here myself. I can remember as a teen when I bought into all the things you are saying and read tracts and learned how to recruit (witness to unbelievers), however I have ears and eyes and moreover a discerning mind and; long ago i became suspect of things that made no sense. Interpreting the bible as literal is one of those nonsensical things.

 

Re-converting those of us on this forum is an exercize in futility, just as much as any of us de-converting you would be. We are looking for logic and reasoning, not evidence from a mythical work and until that type of proof is offered, no one will change his or her mind. The type of proof ,of course, is not possible for the bible, especially when you consider the other myths and religions Christianity borrowed from.

Take Care!

TBM

As I have said in other posts, I am not seeking to convert anyone.  Even if I wanted to "convert" someone, I do not have that ability - it would be a waste of time to try.  Also, you probably have never read or heard the things I am saying concerning the true teachings of scripture so you are wrong to group me in with any organized church or group.  If you don't believe in Christ or the scriptures that is fine with me.  That is your business and not mine.  But if someone still has faith in Christ but rejects the church because of what the church teaches, then I am willing to share my understanding of scripture with them if they so desire me to do so.  If not, that is fine, too.  I am not trying to convert or recruit anyone into some type of religious system or church.  I have "de-converted" from them just as most people on this forum have.  I certainly don't want to try and take anyone back into them again.  I'm not going back and you would do well not to go back either. 

Joe

[JoeinArkansas]

JoeinArkansas: I don't believe you are lying to us in  the sense that you really do believe what your are saying. I did too before I deconverted. So do Muslims, Mormons, Hinduism and every other religion existing now and throughout history. Belief does not magically become the truth because you are sincere, does it? What actual objective research did you do as to Christianity before being "saved"?

Have you ever read Christian history written by a historian other than a Christian? Have you read Bible criticism written by real scholars as opposed to those whose goal was at all times to prove Christianity? Do you know the scholars' (except those already committed to Christianity) reasons for their conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word of God? Did you ever read the Bible without assuming or believing that it is the inspired Word of God? Do you interpret the Bible with without a presumption that it is absolutely true? How did you come to the conclusion that the Bible is 100% true? Have you ever read any scholar's book  criticizing  Christianity? Do you believe that you would commit a sin if you read and analyzed the Bible with honest objectivity, presuming neither that it is true nor false?

 

You want to argue for Christianity? Then get an objective education on the arguments by non-christians.    bill

 

I have not been "saved" as you call it.  I will be saved by Christ someday but I only know this because He said He would do it.  I have never done anything of my own accord to deserve being "saved".  But nonetheless, the Lord loves me anyway, just as much as He loves you.  And according to His Word, He will "save" us both. 

 

Also, salvation is not what the organized churches teach.  There is no heaven as the churches teach, no streets of gold or pearly gates.  Salvation is simply being fully made into the image of God.  All mankind is currently somewhere within that process.  In the end, God will have many new sons and daughters.   It that simple.

 

As for objective research, I have spent most of my life reading and studying and going to "church".   But at the age of 44, I realized it was all in vain.  I had learned almost nothing during those years.  I was deceived and did not know Christ or His truth.  It wasn't until the Lord healed my spiritual vision at that age that I began to understand.  I immediately fled out of the church I was in and have never looked back.   Lot fleeing Sodom is a type of what I experienced.  Until the Lord heals a person's spiritual vision, a person cannot understand scripture or know the truth of it. 

 

I do not want to "argue Christianty".  It would be a waste of time to do so.  Objective study of the bible will never help anyone believe it or understand it.  The scriptures are written as Paul said "in a mystery".  The meaning of the scriptures is concealed from all of mankind.  Except for the Lord coming to a person and giving them the ability to understand them and believe them, it is not possible to understand His Word.  He does it this way because He is choosing His church and it is for a very limited number of people.  We cannot choose ourselves into it.  So you see, it would be a waste of my time and yours to do an objective study of scripture.  I did it for many years and I accomplished nothing. 

 

I am seeking those persons who have rejected the "church" but still have faith in Christ.  If that type of person is willing, and the Lord has made them ready, I can help them learn the truth of scripture for the first time.  That is the process God uses - He sends out teachers to find those He has made ready to know Him through His Word.  I am not recruiting for a church or a group of any kind.  In fact, I do not know of any church that is not harlot.  With God's Elect, they do not follow any man or group.  We follow Christ alone. 

 

Joe

[mymistake]

Also, you probably have never read or heard the things I am saying concerning the true teachings of scripture so you are wrong to group me in with any organized church or group.

 

 

Yeah, we have never heard anybody come in here and tell us that he was chosen by Christ to have the real true Bible interpretation unlike all the other Christians who are spiritually blind.  Yep, your story is so totally and in every possible way original.  We've never heard anything like that before.

 

 

 

But if someone still has faith in Christ but rejects the church because of what the church teaches, then I am willing to share my understanding of scripture with them if they so desire me to do so.

 

Oh . . .  Thumbellina!  You seek Thumbellina!  Help her you can, hmm . . .  yes?

[JoeinArkansas]

WELL ain't this fuckin' disappointing.

 

Why the hell can't we get Christians who actually know their shit as well as the non-Christians do and are aware of their own religion's objective history as well as proper debate techniques and the avoidance of logical fallacies? I mean seriously there have to be some out there. Instead we get the bright-eyed apologetics-weaned milktoast lightweights who read a lot of bumper stickers and watch a lot of videos promising that here at last is the ARGUMENT THAT WILL ALWAYS WIN. And this bulletproof shield turns out to be made of pee-soaked toilet paper.

 

Joe, look, dude, you need to step back from the proselytization here. You're pretty ignorant of your book and your religion's history, you didn't even read the board rules before you sprang into action, and dude really you're not going to be the Magic Christian who makes it all make sense. You guys have had 2000 years to figure your shit out, and you still have zero evidence for your claims and zero objective reasons to choose your god over another, or your religion over none at all.

I am not seeking to recruit or proselytize anyone.  Why do you think so?  The christianty that you know is not mine.  I want nothing to do with it.  If you would slow down and really read my posts, maybe you would understand what I am saying. 

Joe

[JoeinArkansas]

I haven't yet seen a christian (especially a born again or fundamentalist) who has half the knowledge of his/her religion that an ex or an atheist does.

 

Even professional apologeticists (sp) are embarrassingly irrational. The closest I've found to what I would call a religious intellectual are highly educated Catholic priests, (and Dr. Ehrman - but we know where THAT leads  LOL) but they seem distinctly less than 'religious' to me.

You certainly aren't talking about me then because I am not "born again", I am not an intellectual and I don't agree with any of the teachings from the orthodox christianty.

Joe

[mymistake]

I am not seeking to recruit or proselytize anyone.  Why do you think so?  The christianty that you know is not mine.  I want nothing to do with it.  If you would slow down and really read my posts, maybe you would understand what I am saying. 

Joe

 

Maybe you are really here because it's time for you to walk away from this Jesus stuff.  Come on, it's okay to admit it.  It hurts the brain to pretend that Christianity makes sense.  You would like to be set free of it.  You want rational thought to break free and clear out all the things that have been choking your mind.

[JoeinArkansas]

 

I’m curious to know which verses you think have been poorly translated and more importantly how you think you know that. Can you read the original languages or does the spirit of Christ reveal those mistranslations to you? It seems to me that if everyone took your approach we would have far more than 2,000 different church denominations who all believe they are correct.

 

I’m glad to hear that you don’t go around returning evil for evil or proclaiming that people are destined for hellfire. However, I’m really curious what the pitch is. If I’m going to eventually be brought into the kingdom of heaven and be changed into the image of God regardless of whether or not I want that in the age to come, then from purely a risk/reward standpoint, what do I have to gain by searching for him now? Is it merely the satisfaction of knowing stuff that millions of people for two millennia have not had revealed to them? I really would like to know. Thanks.

I am limited on time and will only address your last comments above.

 

There are too many verses to list.  There are verses that are in the bible that are not in the earliest manuscripts.  There are verses that are totally mistranslated and even more that are poorly translated.  Did you know that the KJV has had over 1000 revisions to it since it first came out?  The worst error in scripture that I know is the translation of the Greek word "aion" and its adjective form "aionios".  Aion translates to eon or age but in the KJV it has other meanings that were added to accomodate church doctrine.   It's adjective form "aionios" should mean "age enduring" or "pertaining to an age" but at no time should it be translated as "everlasting" or "eternal" as the KJV frequently does.  This too was to accomodate church doctrine.  An objective study on these words is easy to do.  Much has been written concerning them.  So instead of judgment being limited to an age of time, the KJV says its everlasting.  That error is what makes judgment in their fabled hell last forever.  True judgment from God is limited to when the desired result of the punishment is obtained.  No different than when you punish a child.  Once the child's behavior is corrected, the punishment ceases.  And for the record, God's punishment is much more effective and mericful than any parent's.   From this error in the translation of "aionios", the church makes God out to be the worst monster who has ever lived.  It is no wonder people like you reject their God they have created.  I do, too.

 

Now concerning your salvation.  Christ will never force you to be saved.  He does not work that way.  Christ is so much more powerful that most people understand and He knows you better than you know yourself.  After all, He created you.  When the time comes for you to come to Christ, He will put everything in place to make you desire to do so.  A simple analogy is this:  Do you have a wife and if so, do you love her?  Did she force you do love her or did you choose to love her?  Didn't she do things and have certain character traits that caused to you to fall in love with her?  Christ works much the same way.  He will do things that will cause you to seek Him out.  He will then reveal Himself to you (which He has previously not done).  He will give you from HIS faith and HIS spirit so that it will be possible for you to love Him.   He will do all that it takes to draw you to Him.  You will willingly go and willingly desire to be like Him.  

 

As for when your time will come to be drawn to Christ, it will be a time that is not of your choosing.   For those who Christ chooses now, they will be considered blessed because they are first to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.  They will have life during the next age when most of mankind is in the grave waiting for their resurrection.  They will rule and reign with Christ over the earth during that age and will have glorious spiritual bodies instead of the corrupt bodies we have now.  They will work with Christ in the final age to judge the rest of mankind and will eventually be used by Chist to draw them to Himself.  Those who are resurrected to judgment in the final age will have inferior bodies.  Many will also have many sins that they will have to give an accounting for and as a result, their judgment may be long and difficult.   Then finally, at the end, they will receive new glorious spiritual bodies to match their new character that Christ has given them.   There is much to gain by being chosen to be in Christ's church now and much to lose if you are not.  

 

As I have been saying on this thread, I am not trying to convert or recruit anyone into some kind of a church.  I am only here to find those people who Christ has chosen and made ready to understand His Word.  All of His Elect come out from the Harlot church.  Some may even visit this forum.  But as of yet, Christ may not have opened up the scriptures to them or revealed Himself to them.  If I find someone who still has faith in Christ and desires to know Him through scripture, then I am willing to help that person.  I do not want to take that person back into the harlot church system.  There is only death inside those earthly organizations.  

 

I'm sure from all you have said that Christ has not made you ready to seek Him out at this time.  But your day will come in "due time".  I know you don't believe it but you don't have to believe it.  You are exactly in the place Christ wants you at this time, just as I am in the place He wants me.  Christ directs all things within His creation even if you can't see or understand how He does it.  Scripture says that He does it and unless Christ has given you a measure of His faith, then you will not believe it. 

 

It been interesting speaking with you but I see no reason to continue.  Thank you for sharing with me.

Joe