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Goodbye Jesus

3 Simple Questions For Thumbelina.


bornagainathiest

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Please explain what Jesus meant, when he said, "By their fruits you will know them."

 

Please explain what the Bible means by good spiritual fruit.

 

Please explain what John 15: 1 - 17 means.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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crickets chirp

 

spiders spin their webs

 

a weed sprouts from a crack in the floor

 

dust collects

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C'mon Thumbelina!

 

You accuse Centauri of being afraid. 

 

So what's to fear about these three simple questions?

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The first weed stretches out for the sky.

 

More weeds sprout along every crack.

 

The spiders become hungry and begin to hunt each other.

 

The dust clumps together and thickens.

 

Thumbellina cannot be found.

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BAA, Are you hoping to point out inconsistencies in scripture?  Expose ignorance?  Shall we discuss the OP without Thumbelina?

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BAA, Are you hoping to point out inconsistencies in scripture?  Expose ignorance?  Shall we discuss the OP without Thumbelina?

 

Hey TF!

 

Can I ask you a favor, man?  Would you mind waiting up a while, to give Thumbelina another chance to respond?

If she doesn't show, then so be it.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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(SHOUTS!)

 

HEY. THUMBELINA!

 

PAGING THUMBELINA!

 

CALLING THUMBELINA!

 

WHERE ARE YOU, THUMBELINA?

 

 

PLEASE RESPOND!

 

WE REALLY, REALLY WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!

 

THUM-BEL-I-I-I-I-NA!

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DING DING DING! LET THE MUD MATCH BEGIN!!!!!

 

There, that should work.

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Hey, thanks for the helping hand, Florduh!  ;)

 

Thumby!

 

Please help out and at least dip your toe in...

 

BAA

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She pokes her head into the status updates occasionally.

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When are we declaring the match forfeited so we can start talking about spiritual fruits? I'm interested in this topic.

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To TrueFreedom and Akheia...

 

How about Monday?

 

Either of you guys want to lead off on this topic?  Or shall I answer my own questions, to kick things off?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

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It's your thread, born.  B)

I'd be ok with whomever gets around to it first.

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I'm cool with Monday. Looking forward to it. The hiatus will give me a little time to think about it. If you want to kick it off, BAA, I'm fine with that too, so if you've got some thoughts I look forward to hearing them. This has a lot of potential to be a useful discussion.

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BAA,

 

I have a Thumbelina thread on here myself.  Good luck with yours. She loves the attention we give her, I'm sure.

 

Jesus reached out and with his pure hands touched the lepers. He wasn't afraid of being infected. He wasn't afraid of being seen among them. He was there when the widow put her two mites into the collection plate, believing it would go to God. It was all she had, and Jesus pointed out that she, out of her want, gave more than all of the others.

 

I think Thumbelina is a troll. I could do apoligetics better than her, and I don't claim to believe it anymore.

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BAA,

 

I have a Thumbelina thread on here myself.  Good luck with yours. She loves the attention we give her, I'm sure.

 

Jesus reached out and with his pure hands touched the lepers. He wasn't afraid of being infected. He wasn't afraid of being seen among them. He was there when the widow put her two mites into the collection plate, believing it would go to God. It was all she had, and Jesus pointed out that she, out of her want, gave more than all of the others.

 

I think Thumbelina is a troll. I could do apoligetics better than her, and I don't claim to believe it anymore.

 

Dude,

 

Thanks, but luck is not a factor here.  I never expected Thumbelina to actually reply. 

 

She NEVER does anything that doesn't serve her own interests.  That's why I 'confidently predicted' she'd do nothing to prove that she loves us, as she often claims.   (Posts # 511 and 514 in the Pre-Fall of Satan thread.)

 

BAA.

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Ok gang!

 

I'll punt this one into play, with a question.

 

How does Matthew 7:15-20 (good & bad fruit) and Matthew 22:34-40 (the Law & the Prophets) connect to Matthew 25:31-46 (the hungry, thirsty, naked, sick and imprisoned)... ?

 

I've got my own ideas, what do you folks think?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Seems fairly consistent to me. "Be nice to people" isn't an earth-shattering revelation and wasn't even by the time this gospel was written. Seems obvious to me as well what "fruits" are being sought here. If a Christian isn't doing this stuff, then she isn't bringing forth fruit. But I await your observations with bated breath.

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It's about sharing your food, be it figs that you picked from the fig tree before Jesus cursed it or the bread of life which you heard him speak into your life.  It's a display of character through generous activities and consistent teachings.

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Oops!  My bad. sad.png

 

I didn't preface my question with the context in which I was asking it.  Specifically, the three questions I put to Thumbelina.  My intention was to get her to explain what they meant and so let her shine a spotlight on her own behavior, showing it up for the bad fruit it's always been.  As I said to the Dude, I never expected her to hang herself like this, either here or in any thread she's allowed in. 

 

Anticipating her refusal to cooperate in anything she can't control, I had planned to examine her behavior and compare it to what Jesus, Paul and John say about good and bad spiritual fruit.  You folks couldn't have known this, of course, so it was remiss of me not to bring you up to speed before asking about the connection between those three Matthew quotes.

 

Sorry bout' that!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Anyway, to business.

 

Akheia wrote...

"Seems fairly consistent to me. "Be nice to people" isn't an earth-shattering revelation and wasn't even by the time this gospel was written. Seems obvious to me as well what "fruits" are being sought here. If a Christian isn't doing this stuff, then she isn't bringing forth fruit."

 

TrueFreedom wrote...

"It's about sharing your food, be it figs that you picked from the fig tree before Jesus cursed it or the bread of life which you heard him speak into your life.  It's a display of character through generous activities and consistent teachings."

 

I'd agree with both statements.

 

But I think I can go further.  Like this...

 

Matthew 22.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

All the Law and the Prophets? 

 

That's everything God had ever asked or commanded his people to do, from the book of Exodus, thru to the last lines of the OT?

 

Yes!  According to Jesus, all of the above hangs on just twenty-four words. (Count 'em)

 

Fail to love God (by loving others as yourself) and it doesn't matter how zealous you are to follow God's Law and the words of His prophets.  You've failed from get go!  The only one who upholds the whole Law and Prophets is the one who loves his/her neighbor as themselves.  Love for others is love for God.

 

Don't believe me?  Then check out Matthew 25:31-46.

 

Every time a Christian feeds, clothes or visits anyone, they are loving God.  The fruit of their actions is love. Only those who bring forth good spiritual fruit by such actions are true Christians. Anyone else who claims to show love, but who's behavior isn't loving, isn't a true Christian. Therefore, their claims (to love God and to love others) are shown to be false by their un-loving behavior.  Which is what Jesus meant in Matthew 7:15-20.  You'll know who the true Christians are by the fruit of their actions, not by any claims they make.

 

(Yes, Thumbelina!  This means you.)

 

This also explains why the Pharisees failed to love God with all of their hearts and souls and minds, even though they devoted their whole lives to minutely observing every last word of the Law.  And why Jesus condemned them so vehemently.  And why trying to observe any part or all of the Law (without loving your neighbor as yourself) is doomed to fail.  And why Paul so often wrote about the Law not justifying anyone in God's sight. 

 

So Thumbelina, if you really do want to observe the 10 commandments, what must you do?

And if you really do want to love God with all of your heart, soul and mind, what must you do?

And if you really want to live up to your claim of loving us, what must you do?

 

And what have you consistently failed to do, since you joined this forum?

And what kind of spiritual fruit is mockery, taunting and teasing?

 

(Hint: Matthew 22:39.)

.

.

.

 

Your thoughts, guys.?   (Akheia and TF, that is.)

 

BAA

 

 

 

p.s.

Unless you want in, Thumbelina. 

If so, please answer the three questions in post #1, before going on to any other business. 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

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Seems fairly obvious to me what the fruits of her behavior are.

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Sounds like she's thrown some rotten fruit.  ;)

Maybe that was her attempt at tough love.

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I dunno, that doesn't seem like it matches what the Bible dictates.

 

It's interesting to think about how most Christians we observe don't really display much of this "spiritual fruit" stuff. Control, abuse, manipulation, denial of truth, lack of charity.... it's like all that bullshit about turning the other cheek and forgiving enemies 70*7 is just optional or something.

 

I used to think about heaven and wonder what it'd be like to be trapped for eternity with the people I saw at church every Sunday. Would God just strip out all the hypocrisy and meanness? Would we get there and just discover we didn't want to gossip or act spiteful or argue anymore? My aunt, who is a nun, told me it was just a mystery, which meant "quit worrying about it." But I still did.

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"I do know one genuine Christian. Doctrine and dogma are completely irrelevant to her. She walks the walk. She is constantly on the alert to help someone in need. She pays bills for people in need, buys and delivers groceries, has cars repaired so someone can get to work, she has sat up all night with a terminally ill friend on several occasions, she is a prayer warrior for those who are suffering and in need of hope, she is constantly delivering food to someone who is sick or can’t provide for themselves, she is the most special person I’ve ever know and I’ve had the undeserved honor to have been married to her for the last forty seven years."

Posted by Geezer, two days ago.

 

Please compare and contrast with Thumbelina's excessive devotion to doctrine, dogma and the Bible.  Geezer's wife lives a life of love in action.  Her actions (good spiritual fruit) speak for her faith a thousand times better than anything the Thumb writes.

 

Galatians 5.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

(Nor reserving the right to mock and tease others - which is PROVOCATION, Thumbelina!)

 

John 15.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

 

(If you fail to bear good spiritual fruit Thumbelina, then you are not a disciple of Jesus.)

 

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

 

1 Corinthians 13

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

See that Thumbelina?  It's there in b&w. 

You can waste your life chasing Biblical knowledge, but if you don't have love - you are nothing.

You can spend years reading about love in scripture, but if you don't have it (by loving others), then you gain nothing.

Think about it.  But not for too long.  You've wasted too much time serving yourself already.  Now it's time to love and serve others.

Your God has commanded you to do this. Continuing as you are is disobedience.

 

BAA.

 

 

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