I Don't Know What To Say Anymore.

[Lilith666]

A while ago I posted about how to get the attention of someone I really like. Let's call him Steve. Well, now there's a worse problem.

 

Back in October, he told me he wanted to go to Amsterdam in Holland to be a heterosexual prostitute. He's totally serious. He thinks he can get rich off it. I tried to convince him it's a bad idea. That did not work. I'm hoping he'll grow out of it, but regardless, he has terrible decision-making skills.

 

I found out he's been getting drunk frequently. As in, at least once he got drunk four times in one week.

 

Then he told me he has been doing heroin for three years, and he's only 17. So I typed a list of cited reasons why this is unhealthy. He wrote all over it and gave it back to me. Here are pieces:

 

L: Causes euphoria and tolerance (need more for same effect).

S: That's fun

 

L: Withdrawal is painful and dangerous. Causes nausea, cramps, chills, panic, loss of sleep.

S: So I shouldn't stop?

 

L: Addicts vulnerable to AIDS, hepatitis, and pneumonia.

S: I have my own sterile needles

 

L: Also causes malnutrition.

S: I'd like to lose more weight

 

L: Too much alcohol (S: Doesn't exist) can cause cirrhosis, damage to digestive system, heart trouble, immune system damage, and cancer of larynx, esophagus, and liver.

 

L: Damages fibers that connect brain cells, producing memory lapses, motor disturbances, and general disorientation.

S: Challenge accepted!

 

L: Sudden abstinence by the chronic alcoholic....is more likely to cause death than withdrawal from narcotic drugs. The final and most dangerous phase in this withdrawal pattern is delirium tremens, a toxic psychosis characterized by insomnia, hallucinations, seizures, and maniacal behavior.

S: I'm currently too drunk to understand what this is saying....

 

S: Thanks Lilith! Love, Steve

 

He told me about the heroin three days ago. It scares me more than the prostitution and alcohol do--it could actually kill him.

 

He is the most popular senior at our school, but he doesn't seem to have any real friends. Instead of trying to get him help, the trash he hangs around with encourage these habits. They all get drunk and high together.

 

I feel helpless. I have pretty strong feelings about Steve, and I want to do something about this, but he won't even admit he has a problem. I can't watch him destroy himself. How can he do this to me? He could at least give a damn that I care what happens to him, but he is treating this like a joke.

 

I can't stop thinking about it. I'm the one who needs withdrawal. Nothing I say will make him stop; he is too far gone. Advice would be appreciated.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Hugs. It seems like he's got personality issues and needs psychological help. If there are any secular therapists in your area? Maybe you could get him to seek help?

[Lilith666]

Hugs. It seems like he's got personality issues and needs psychological help. If there are any secular therapists in your area? Maybe you could get him to seek help?

He's Catholic. I don't know how I would convince him to get a psychiatrist. He apparently thinks he's fine.

[mymistake]

 

I feel helpless. I have pretty strong feelings about Steve, and I want to do something about this, but he won't even admit he has a problem. I can't watch him destroy himself. How can he do this to me? He could at least give a damn that I care what happens to him, but he is treating this like a joke.

 

I can't stop thinking about it. I'm the one who needs withdrawal. Nothing I say will make him stop; he is too far gone. Advice would be appreciated.

 

It may be time for you to get over "Steve".  You are young so it will hurt the first time but it's something we all go through.  Later on you will realize that these strong feelings are not different from the strong feelings you have for new people.  The fact is that there are lots of self destructive people out there.  You can't save them.  What you need to do is safe yourself.  Don't wreck your life over a dream.  Now go to college and get your life set up.  While you are there you will have a lot of fun and meet all kinds of people who have all kinds of wonderful traits.  Leaving high school friends is hard but once you get to college you forget all about HS.

[Lilith666]

 

 

 

I feel helpless. I have pretty strong feelings about Steve, and I want to do something about

this, but he won't even admit he has a problem. I

can't watch him destroy himself. How can he do

this to me? He could at least give a damn that I care what happens to him, but he is treating this

like a joke.

 

I can't stop thinking about it. I'm the one who needs withdrawal. Nothing I say will make him stop; he is too far gone. Advice would be appreciated.

It may be time for you to get over "Steve". You are young so it will hurt the first time but it's something we all go through. Later on you will realize that these strong feelings are not different

from the strong feelings you have for new

people. The fact is that there are lots of self

destructive people out there. You can't save

them. What you need to do is safe yourself.

Don't wreck your life over a dream. Now go to

college and get your life set up. While you are

there you will have a lot of fun and meet all

kinds of people who have all kinds of wonderful

traits. Leaving high school friends is hard but

once you get to college you forget all about HS.

Thanks, MM, but it doesn't work like that. You don't just stop caring about someone.

[Positivist]

Yikes. As someone who has worked a lot with people over the years, and people with addictions in particular, I'd say he has some significant personality issues behind the addiction.

 

My thoughts?

- There's no such thing as a "heterosexual prostitute". I've worked with male sex trade workers and they don't sell sex to women, but to married men. He'll be sucking cocks and taking it up the ass.

- He won't be able to find work in Amsterdam--the sex trade in Amsterdam is very organized.

- I'd put money on the bet that he has ADHD and/or a personality disorder.

- He is hell-bent on an addicted lifestyle and he lacks the insight to know why he's even doing it. He's not going to change.

- If you are ever in a relationship with him, it will all be about HIM and HIS problems and HIS crazy life and HIS addiction. You will be forced to support HIM. You will disappear.

 

Run, don't walk, away.  Maybe try to differentiate your feelings for him--is it love? Care? Fascination? Pity? Analyze why you are drawn to this type of person. Maybe get therapy, because if this is the type of person you are drawn to, I'm afraid you're in for a long, rough, life supporting addicts and other people who can't love you back.

 

I'm not trying to be mean; I've seen this a million times and it actually scares me.

 

Keep us posted. We're here for you.

[mymistake]

Thanks, MM, but it doesn't work like that. You don't just stop caring about someone.

 

 

Well, not like turning off a light switch.  It will be a bumpy road.  When I was 14 I had a crush on Emily.  That lasted for three years.  I was delusional Christian at the time so I could not understand that she was out of my legue and I also could not understand that Alison and Natasha both had a crush on me.  Both of those girls were quite attractive and either one would have made a fine companion but they were not the supermodel that Emily was.  I thought that the Holy Spirit was suppose to lead me and the Holy Spirit would do it by making me feel most attracted to "the one" so I was a hopeless case.  It took me three years of being lonely and getting rejected for me to get over my crush on Emily.  And I didn't realize it at the time but I know I hurt Alison and Natasha to one degree or another.  When I was finally ready to admit to myself that Emily would never love me I mourned.  I thought I would never get over that.  But as soon as I did I found some other supermodel to pursue.  I didn't learn my lesson.  So I start chasing Kris and she frendzones me hard.  And I needed that to learn that you have to get over people.  You have to protect yourself from them.  And you have to realize that some people are not worth the feelings we have for them.  Getting over a crush isn't something you just do quickly.

 

After HS I dates a lot of ladies and had all the ups and downs that come with relationships.  I needed that in order to get over my ignorance and to figure out what I really wanted in a spouse.

[florduh]

We can't fix everything and everybody. You obviously can't help him, but you can surely harm yourself in the process of trying. Some relationships/people are toxic and must be avoided; perhaps with regret, but not guilt. You can do no more for him as he is self destructive, so do yourself a favor and don't exhibit the same behavior by going down with the wreck.

[BendyLine]

Run, don't walk, away.  

This. 

 

Yeah, it probably won't be easy, and nobody is trying to tell you it will be. I've seen your posts, and it's obvious you're very bright and have a lot of potential, so let me tell you now: this guy is toxic. He's too young and stupid to see what hot water he's in, and he wouldn't think twice about dragging you or someone else down with him. He likely won't admit he needs help until he's hit rock bottom, if he doesn't die first. This is the kind of thing you don't fuck around with. 

 

Hell, you getting away from him may even give him the push he needs to realize he needs help. 

[Lilith666]

There's no such thing as a "heterosexual prostitute". I've worked with male sex trade workers and they don't sell sex to women, but to married men. He'll be sucking cocks and taking it up the ass.

 

I appreciate your concern, but was it necessary to put it that way?

[Lilith666]

Run, don't walk, away. Maybe try to differentiate your feelings for him--is it love? Care? Fascination? Pity? Analyze why you are drawn to this type of person. Maybe get therapy, because if this is the type of person you are drawn to, I'm afraid you're in for a long, rough, life supporting addicts and other people who

can't love you back.

 

It's not that I'm the "fixer" type who wants to be in a relationship with someone so I can make his problems go away. When I became interested in him, I saw him as the all-American boy. I had no clue about his issues.

 

It's like this: I am pretty shy, so I've never had

many friends. Definitely not in our grade--I always sat alone in lunch and worked alone on projects. (Not trying to be self-pitying here; I'm just stating facts.) For some reason, Steve started paying attention to me--jokingly teasing, that sort of thing. He made me feel included, like I had friends, even like I was special. This helped me come out of my shell. I would speak up in class and joined the school musical this year.

 

Steve is not the kind of person you would expect to be an addict. He's got an incredible sense of humor and actually made trig class kind of fun last year. He's creative, and sweet--he befriends all the exchange students and made one cookies for her birthday. He has a friend who broke her leg, so he carries her books between classes and makes sure she gets to places on time. Steve was so happy all the time. I'm struggling to understand what would influence him to get into this.

[Akheia]

I don't want to trivialize your pain, but yes, that's exactly what you do. That's what adults *do* when they realize they've fallen for an asshole as supremely callous, indifferent, dismissive, self-destructive, and disrespectful as Steve sounds to me: they tell him off, cut ties, and walk away, and then they spend a little time figuring out why they fell for an asshole addict like that so it never happens again. You absolutely can stop caring about someone. You're going to have to, because the alternative is caring about an addict who is categorically not treating you right, and Addict Road leads to Codependence Hollow, which is what you're going to be after a few more years of this stuff. The only reason you find the idea of stopping caring about Steve horrifying and impossible is that you've got a lot of indoctrination and media telling you that love hurts, and relationships are hard, and you can't possibly stop loving someone. NO, IT DOESN'T. NO, THEY AREN'T. YES, YOU CAN. (I want to send Bonnie Raitt a bill for my therapy because of how much she contributed to my own indoctrination into codependence.)

 

Steve is not doing any of this shit "to you." He's doing it to "the idiot who is trying to fix him now." The second you stop, someone else will step into that role, and he won't even notice the change in hair color. Be ready for that pain, because to me realizing how interchangeable I was to my addict was worse than anything he'd done to me over the 3 years we spent together. Hell, Steve's probably got a rotating circle of people trying to fix him. That's how addicts live--they're crazy charming, so naive people fall for them and like them, and it takes a lot of time for a sweet, trusting, naive person to figure out how predatory the addict is.

 

Let me save you some time. You aren't going to fix Steve. He needs to figure his shit out on his own. The more people try to fix him and put up with his bullshit, the less impetus he has to fix himself. If you think he's hurting himself, report him to an adult immediately, and hold him responsible for what he says and does--like this time, when he spoke to you so disrespectfully.

 

You can't help who you find charming, but you can definitely have healthy boundaries so that when an addict reveals his true colors by overstepping those boundaries, as Steve has done repeatedly, you have the self-respect to step away from him despite the momentary pain that will cause. What you do is up to you. You are more than your romantic impulses. You have total control over how you handle attractions and urges of sympathy. You don't have to waste your time on someone who patently can't appreciate your effort. Once you drop Steve, you'll be shocked at how fast you'll get used to not agonizing over him. Do what adult women do: figure out why you gave the asshole so much time of day, because he won't be the only addict who charms your socks off. There'll come a time when you can spot that particular brand of narcissism and self-destructiveness a mile away and won't even be charmed by the act anymore.

 

I hope Steve figures his shit out, but whether he does or doesn't, you've done your time in that prison. You've done everything a reasonable adult could ever be expected to do. You're allowed to get off the crazy train here. Report Steve to your school counselor. After that, he is no longer your problem or concern.

[J.W.]

You can only offer a helping hand. If someone wants to crash and burn there is nothing you can do to stop them. 

 

It is an odd paradox. You are trying to help them but will come across as trying to be their parent or preaching at them. Unless, he is saying all this for attention or just to screw with you.. kids do weird stuff. 

 

Instead of telling him not to do those things, when they come up, just tell him how retarded them are-- totally stupid, and idiots do stuff like that. If he cares at all for your opinion-- he will listen more to that then you telling him what to do.

[Akheia]

 

There's no such thing as a "heterosexual prostitute". I've worked with male sex trade workers and they don't sell sex to women, but to married men. He'll be sucking cocks and taking it up the ass.

I appreciate your concern, but was it necessary to put it that way?

 

 

 

Given your age maybe not (you're 17, right?), but the general sentiment? Yes, I think it was absolutely necessary. Most sex-positive adults are well aware of how much straight sex "male hetero prostitutes" have. Dan Savage had a column about it recently; even the male prostitutes who say they do het sex just say that to make closested male customers feel safer. One very active male prostitute whose profile said he did both men and women said he'd maybe had one or two female customers in all his time working in the sex trade. If Steve thinks he's going to be a hot male American gigolo in Amsterdam, he's fooling only himself. Or maybe not. Addicts thrive on deception as well as self-deception.

 

But again, not your problem ultimately, just a bit of info for you to tuck into your hat. A few years ago I worked around a very histrionic young woman (the sort of threatened to kill herself if we were out of post-it notes) who said she making serious plans to move to Manhattan and get an apartment by herself. She was toxically unattractive and about as unsavory a personality as you could hope to meet, plus she had absolutely no job or people skills. I said, "How on earth are you going to afford rent in Manhattan?" and she just gave me this bizarre pursed-mouth expression somewhere between duckface and that silver-medalist's grimace. I realized that she thought she was going to afford Manhattan by prostituting herself. I felt like laughing at her but instead I said, "Well. Good luck with that," and put the whole thing out of my head. No idea what she ended up doing, but I did run across her picture later in a porn shoot in a most undignified position, so maybe it worked out for her in the end, pun intended. You can't get too worried about people. If they want to do something ridiculously stupid and you've made a good-faith effort to dissuade them, then you can't make them stop.

[mymistake]

You can only offer a helping hand. If someone wants to crash and burn there is nothing you can do to stop them. 

 

It is an odd paradox. You are trying to help them but will come across as trying to be their parent or preaching at them. Unless, he is saying all this for attention or just to screw with you.. kids do weird stuff. 

 

Instead of telling him not to do those things, when they come up, just tell him how retarded them are-- totally stupid, and idiots do stuff like that. If he cares at all for your opinion-- he will listen more to that then you telling him what to do.

 

You know I'm going to use that advise for my kids when they have to face peer pressure.  Thanks for that man!

[mcdaddy]

Some people prefer short, exciting lives over long, boring ones. If he does go through with it, he'll probably figure out its not what he thought it'd be.

[Sybaris]

There are 3 billion men in the world.

 

WHY would you want to start a relationship with someone with so many issues?

 

Chalk it up to experience and cut your losses

 

Go find someone with more in the "+" column.

[Birdwatcher]

My god Lilith, do you have a death wish?  Get as far away from "Steve" as you can.  You do not need this kind of crap to screw up your life.  My sister married a "Steve" and her life and that of her kids and grand kids are so unbelievably messed up.  It also affects everyone in the extended family for years because of constantly having to bail them out. Run, don't walk!  You have your whole promising life ahead of you, don't mess it up.  Positivist is right.  He will be all that matters, and you will become an invisible worn-out bitter shell of a woman.

 

RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!

 

Edited to add:

 

Since you are an EX-Christian, you no longer live in the la la land of make believe.  You live in the land of reason and rational thinking.  Run this situation through the reasonal, logical, rational part of your brain, and you will see this DOES NOT COMPUTE.

[midniterider]

rewrite

[Lilith666]

 

 

Advice would be appreciated.

Stop hanging around Steve. He's a druggie and

a drinker and makes bad decisions and causes

you emotional grief. You like him because....?

I explained why above. It's too long to type out again.

 

Originally, before I heard about these issues, I planned to go to a college near the one he wants. I was interested in this place before I knew it's close to his pick. It's private and very expensive.

 

Everyone's comments have made me think again. By attending a local community college first, I could escape Steve and save money. I would still like to go to my first choice, but as I said, it's small and private, so I'll get more individual attention, which is a big plus. And it has the majors I want. Please do not think I am chasing Steve.

[marycontrary]

Don't become a magnet for broken people. Be careful in your choices, you could easily become an enabler. Enablers know the people they enable are messed up, but they unknowingly try to take care of them. As well, messed up people are attracted to people with kind hearts and good intentions. They can suck the life out of you. I suspect he has narcissistic qualities. He will find help for himself when he hits rock bottom, let him spiral. When he does choose to kick his addiction, he will need to be with others who have kicked...people who understand him. You don't have an addiction, so you can't understand. Let him go, but maybe let him know you can be his friend when he cleans his act.

 

You are young and your life is going to change dramatically when you leave highschool. I gaurentee, if you save this and look at it one year from now, you will have a different perspective.

[midniterider]

Run, don't walk, away.  Maybe try to differentiate your feelings for him--is it love? Care? Fascination? Pity? Analyze why you are drawn to this type of person. Maybe get therapy, because if this is the type of person you are drawn to, I'm afraid you're in for a long, rough, life supporting addicts and other people who can't love you back.

 

I'm not trying to be mean; I've seen this a million times and it actually scares me.

 

Keep us posted. We're here for you.

 

This ^^ .   "Why do I want to hang around this guy" is a great question. Why choose to have a problematic relationship from the start (of your life) ? You're better than that. Give yourself every opportunity for success.

 

Your relationship with this person appears to make you unhappy, thus the reason for the thread. He likes getting drunk, using Heroin, wants to be a male hooker...

 

Seeing these qualities of self destruction in him do you see a successful relationship with him or one fraught with misery? 

 

You say he's too far gone for help as he doesn't feel he has a problem. If he isn't going to change then you cannot do anything...for him. But you can change your response to him being a douche.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

Advice would be appreciated.

Stop hanging around Steve. He's a druggie and

a drinker and makes bad decisions and causes

you emotional grief. You like him because....?

I explained why above. It's too long to type out again.

 

Originally, before I heard about these issues, I planned to go to a college near the one he wants. I was interested in this place before I knew it's close to his pick. It's private and very expensive.

 

Everyone's comments have made me think again. By attending a local community college first, I could escape Steve and save money. I would still like to go to my first choice, but as I said, it's small and private, so I'll get more individual attention, which is a big plus. And it has the majors I want. Please do not think I am chasing Steve.

 

 

Ah, ok. I actually edited this message. I thought you were emotionally attached to him...I'll read more of the thread. :-)

[Lilith666]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Advice would be appreciated.

Stop hanging around Steve. He's a druggie and

a drinker and makes bad decisions and causes

you emotional grief. You like him because....?

I explained why above. It's too long to type out again.

 

Originally, before I heard about these issues, I planned to go to a college near the one he wants. I was interested in this place before I

knew it's close to his pick. It's private and very

expensive.

 

Everyone's comments have made me think again. By attending a local community college first, I could escape Steve and save money. I would still like to go to my first choice, but as I said, it's small and private, so I'll get more

individual attention, which is a big plus. And it

has the majors I want. Please do not think I

am chasing Steve.

Ah, ok. I actually edited this message. I thought you were emotionally attached to him...I'll read

more of the thread. :-)

I am emotionally attached to him. I just don't want you all to think I'm going to be self-destructive, too.

[Akheia]

I'm glad you're rethinking that attachment. Steve sounds like a fucking asshole to me. Addicts are all very charming--that's how they rope nice people into caring about them. But you get down to brass tacks like you did with that email about the effects of drugs, and you see the real Steve. I really really hate telling someone "oh you're young," because you wouldn't even believe how many good women fall for addicts just like you have and then spend years and decades trying to fix them, finally burn out and leave and then start the process again and again, but gal, you *are* young. You've got this wonderful opportunity to really examine why you fell for an asshole, examine why you think you deserve the treatment he spewed at you and why his response to your caring intervention didn't make you immediately go cold on him, and figure out how to spot those warning signs so you can spot assholes like him from orbit and not get drawn into the charm act they do.

 

The watershed moment in my codependence recovery was realizing that my dignity and self-worth mattered more to me than anything I ever felt in the "honeymoon" phases of my addict's behavior. Real love isn't hard. It doesn't make you hurt and cry all the time. It doesn't make you feel worthless. It doesn't overstep your boundaries and make light of your concerns. It affirms your worth and accentuates your dignity, rather than trampling on both. Remember the "love chapter"? It's true: love seeks the best, hopes the best, believes the best. Out of every single thing in the Bible, that alone has served me in the years since my deconversion.