I am a Christian

[Dhampir]

So anyway, you believe (or, as chef has reminded me, know) that animals procreate because there is an instinctual need to propagate their respective species. So it's not as if they do it because they want to so much as they have to, right?

 

Okay then, disregarding the whole humans are animals as well argument, why then, do you believe that we as humans need anything other than our own advancement or continued existence to have come by such a thing as love?

 

Do you think that we are incapable of love without it being forced down our throats by a god that didn't give it to us to propagate, but instead doles it out to us, and tells us we should make use of it?

 

That kinda makes us look bad, but then it also makes him look worse, ya'mean?

[Ebony_Fox]

So Damphair you don't believe in Love?

[Ebony_Fox]

sorry I spelled your name wrong. Dhampir

[MrSpooky]

Dammit, was the member information lost again?

 

*sigh*

 

Anyways, dude, one cannot hate God any more than one cannot hate Santa Claus after you learn he doesn't exist, a point which I'm sure came up, but I'm too lazy to go back and check.

 

Simply put, God has no basis in reality. If you'd like to look deeper into the philosophy, by all means, ask. I'm trying to teach a philosophy class on Atheism next semester anyways.

 

I used to be a very spiritual wiccan, but once I took a good long look at my beliefs through rational inquiry, I discovered they just didn't hold up, so I abandoned wicca for atheism. It wasn't a bitter process, or a tragic one. It simply was a calm stepping aside from religion.

[Caretaker]

I think humans have an innate trait that is characterized by a desire to some degree to be assiciated with some other {human|animal|object|locale|etc...} and when that desire becomes great, I suppose that could be defined as love.

 

I believe such a trait exists.

[Caretaker]

Dammit, was the member information lost again?

 

*sigh*

 

Anyways, dude, one cannot hate God any more than one cannot hate Santa Claus after you learn he doesn't exist, a point which I'm sure came up, but I'm too lazy to go back and check.

 

Simply put, God has no basis in reality.  If you'd like to look deeper into the philosophy, by all means, ask.  I'm trying to teach a philosophy class on Atheism next semester anyways.

 

I used to be a very spiritual wiccan, but once I took a good long look at my beliefs through rational inquiry, I discovered they just didn't hold up, so I abandoned wicca for atheism.  It wasn't a bitter process, or a tragic one.  It simply was a calm stepping aside from religion.

 

 

New boards, man, new boards.

[Dhampir]

Quite the quick responder aren't you? No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

 

I am not reducing the human experience when I say that love is a bond formed for the sake of rearing young, and for us, to provide added stimuli to want to procreate. See, as rational beings, the instinct to make babies is overridden by other things (Why would we make products that allow us sex for pleasure without procreation?). I believe love is nonetheless a deeper thing than that, but powerful as it is, it is not transcendant. Even if god exists, in some way, I think that his/her/it's/their continued existence is not necessary for love to continue.

 

Having said that, I realize that what you are really getting at is that love isn't quite palpable, and disbelief in it, although you experience it or see others experience it, is the same as denying god.

 

I say it's different. I think that Love is far more evident than the god you believe in. I mean most of us know the feeling: Loving someone that we have to believe is there, as opposed to loving someone you know for certain is.

 

That's the difference. I KNOW there's a thing called love, whereas I have to BELIEVE in god.

[Ebony_Fox]

I know God. I know him as my father, as my friend. I feel him as I walk down the street. I feel him protecting me. I can't show you a picture of God, I cannot physically smell him, touch him, taste him. Same as Love yet just about everyone believes in Love (with or without God) So how is feeling God different from feeling Love?

[Dhampir]

I know God. I know him as my father, as my friend. I feel him as I walk down the street. I feel him protecting me. I can't show you a picture of God, I cannot physically smell him, touch him, taste him. Same as Love yet just about everyone believes in Love (with or without God) So how is feeling God different from feeling Love?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you like, I can break this down in to biological functions. This is rather unsavory, as it seems to demean love but I don't mean it that way.

 

See, When you are with someone you love (lets call this physical, partner to partner type), you can identify certain changes. When you think about them, talk to them, are near them, endorphines, and a whole host of other chemicals are released into your brain, making you feel good.

 

Okay, I know that you can feel these things for god as well, with enough indoctrination. But, the fact that you can isolate and identify that which causes love makes it far more proveable. People fall in love with fictional characters all the time, and yet reading the pages, they've not been told these characters are real, and they know they feel for something that doesn't exist.

 

So, yeah, you can love and feel god whether he exists or not, you need to prove that your feelings are based on something real.

 

Here's a question for you: When I was real young, 4-11 or 12 or so, I was very devout. I used to pray in my room for up to a half-hour every day, recite bible stories verbatim, and talk about all the things I learned about god. However, when I look back on those times, I know that I made myself feel those things I felt, and as I got older and started to doubt, it became harder and harder to make myself feel them.

 

So, why is it, that if god is so much to be felt, that I couldn't when I wanted to most?

[MrSpooky]

New boards, man, new boards.

 

We go through too many damn boards.

 

Anyways, Ebony, it's nice that you have these warm fuzzy feelings towards reality. But if they are exempt from demonstration or rational proof, your feelings are subjective, not objective. You retain every right to maintain those subjective feelings, however, you do not have the intellectual right to assert the existence of God as objective truth, nor do you have the ethical right to impose that on others.

[Ebony_Fox]

God tests his children. I pray everyday for God to reveal more to me, show me who he is, and make me stronger.

 

Well one day when I was up in my room I realized that I didn't feel God there with the closeness I had always felt. I felt like I was talking to myself so I stopped the prayer short and just went to bed. I knew God hadn't abandoned me because I did feel a twinge of his presence but not as much as I always did. This went on for a full month and I was in distress. I wasn't, and I'm not, the most patient person in the world.

when finally he told me, through my pastor, that he wanted me to take the next step in our relationship. Now my pastor had no idea what was going on at the time and his sermon hadn't even been on that subject, he said he just felt some of us needed to hear that. God wanted me to more into him and not just in church or during my daily devotinals to him. he wanted to be everywhere with me.

Sometimes he also pulls back when I'm doing somethig wrong. Or when he doesn't want me to do something.

[chefranden]

I know God. I know him as my father, as my friend. I feel him as I walk down the street. I feel him protecting me. I can't show you a picture of God, I cannot physically smell him, touch him, taste him. Same as Love yet just about everyone believes in Love (with or without God) So how is feeling God different from feeling Love?

 

Qualitatively there is no difference. You have a electro/chemical induced moment of asynchronism between your two brain hemispheres, which you have been taught to interpret as the presence of ChristianGod. If you where muslim you would feel Allah. If you were Hindu, you would feel Khrisna. Read this if your filter will allow it.

[Dhampir]

So basically, I...

 

No, wait.

 

When I didn't feel him, when it would have been most conducive to keeping me in the faith it was because I...

 

Nope, still not there.

 

You've offered me explanations of times when he removed his loving influence (which btw is all there is by necessity, given that you can't percieve him in any other way, which to me is just cruel), but you are at a loss to explain why.

 

Sure he disappeared when you did wrong, (would a loving earthly father do that?) but what about that whole month? He tests you to make you stronger? By taking that which strengthens? okay.

 

Anyway, you still gotta prove that the influence you feel is anymore real than when a muslim or a Hindu says he or she feels the same thing.

[Caretaker]

Qualitatively there is no difference.  You have a electro/chemical induced moment of asynchronism between your two brain hemispheres, which you have been taught to interpret as the presence of ChristianGod.  If you where muslim you would feel Allah.  If you were Hindu, you would feel Khrisna.  Read this if your filter will allow it.

 

This reminds me of capsaicin. Capsaicin is:

 

is an irritant for mammals including human and produces an illusion of burning in the mouth. Capsaicin and several related compounds are called capsaicinoids and are produced as a secondary metabolite by certain plants of the genus Capsicum, probably as deterrants againsts herbivores. Birds are generally not sensitive to capsaicinoids. Pure capsaicin is a lipophilic colorless odorless crystalline to waxy compound.

...

[When capsaicin] comes in contact with skin, especially eyes or mucous membranes it is very painful.

 

The burning and painful sensations associated with capsaicin result from capsaicin's chemical interaction with sensory neurons. Capsaicin, as a member of the vanilloid family, binds to a receptor called the vanilloid receptor subtype 1 (VR1) first cloned in 1997, VR1 is an ion channel-type receptor. VR1, can also be stimulated with heat and physical abrasion, permits positively-charged ions (i.e. cations) to pass through the cell membrane and into the cell from outside when activated. The resulting "depolarization" of the neuron stimulates it to signal the brain. By binding to the VR1 receptor, the capsaicin molecule produces the same effect that excessive heat or abrasive damage would cause, explaining why the spiciness of capsaicin is described as a burning sensation.

 

The VR1 ion channel has subsequently been shown to be a member of the superfamily of TRP ion channels, and as such is now refer to as TRPV1. There are a number of different TRP ion channels that have been shown to be sensitive to different ranges of temperature and probably are responsible for our range of temperature sensation. Thus, capsaicin does not actually cause a chemical burn; it causes only the sensation of one.

 

 

In other words, physical contact, particularly of the eyes, mouth, open sores, or other mucous membranes produces only an illusion of a burning sensation, despite that no damage is being done.

 

BTW, capsaicin is the active ingredient of hot peppers.

[chefranden]

1. God tests his children.  I pray everyday for God to reveal more to me, show me who he is, and make me stronger.

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2. Well one day when I was up in my room I realized that I didn't feel God there with the closeness I had always felt. I felt like I was talking to myself so I stopped the prayer short and just went to bed. I knew God hadn't abandoned me because I did feel a twinge of his presence but not as much as I always did. This went on for a full month and I was in distress. I wasn't, and I'm not, the most patient person in the world.

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3. when finally he told me, through my pastor, that he wanted me to take the next step in our relationship. Now my pastor had no idea what was going on at the time and his sermon hadn't even been on that subject, he said he just felt some of us needed to hear that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

God wanted me to more into him and not just in church or during my daily devotinals to him. he wanted to be everywhere with me.

 

Sometimes he also pulls back when I'm doing somethig wrong. Or when he doesn't want me to do something.

 

1. Why does god test his children? When human parents test a child it is about the processes of making an adult. Are you being made a god? If not what reason is there for this test? Why does the "all-knowing god" need a test to find out something about you?

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2. You felt that you were talking to yourself because you were. Your brain hemispheres were in sync. Unless your brain is abnormal, you will feel this "presence" less often as you mature and your brain wiring becomes less apt to missfire. You will be taught to do without if you cannot be taught to bring the brain state about by "spiritual" means such as prayer and fasting, meditation, or the like.

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3. Your interpretation of the coincidence of your pastor's feeling is called conformation bias (Conformation bias is when you look for information that justifies what you expect or believe to be true, when you look for research or results or just daily instances that confirm what you think.)

[Ebony_Fox]

Are you saying there is a disorder between the left side of my brain and the right side of my brain?(I am tring to summarize what I just read)

 

 

You've offered me explanations of times when he removed his loving influence (which btw is all there is by necessity, given that you can't percieve him in any other way, which to me is just cruel), but you are at a loss to explain why.

Sure he disappeared when you did wrong, (would a loving earthly father do that?) but what about that whole month? He tests you to make you stronger? By taking that which strengthens? okay.Anyway, you still gotta prove that the influence you feel is anymore real than when a muslim or a Hindu says he or she feels the same thing.

 

I can't explain why he chose to do it that way. God handles people differently; with one of friends God showed his presence even stronger to get his point across.

I said he pulled back, I didn't say he left. That whole month I felt him there but not with the usual closeness he always approached me with. And if he hadn't pulled away I would've just kept on doing the same thing I did everyday.

 

I see it like when my parents interact with each other, if everyday, my father did the same thing; get home, kiss my mom, tell her about his day and then watch T.V. After awhile she is going to want to spend more time with him. My mom will start offering to go to the movies or the mall. If he refuses she pulls back just to see how intersted he really is, pretty soon he trys to find out whats wrong and they begin to spend more time wityh each other.

 

I don't know what the Hindus feel. I only know what I feel.

[Asimov]

So you do believe in Love?Or do you just believe in close bonding? yes or no answer to this. Do you believe in Love. any kind of love.

 

Ebony....that's what love is. Close bonding. There are different types of love, you can't just generalise into one. Love isn't a belief, it's an emotion. An emotion of affection for a person, place, or thing.

[Amethyst]

I just looked it up on Google typed Deism. I read what was underneath the site names. I tried to go to one that showed the mistakes of the bible but the computer wouldn't let me on. I tried again and it took me Off the internet.

 

It sounds like they had bad programming on their site. Were you getting Javascript errors? That usually means it is something in the code on their end. You should try a different one. Or e-mail them and tell them their code is buggy.

 

To answer your initial question, I do not hate god. I am not an athiest, rather I am agnostic. I do not take the Bible literally. I haven't since I was perhaps 12 or 13 years old. To take everything in the Bible literally is to waste your brain.

 

I do not believe in the Bible because 1. I am an intelligent person who has read a lot of stuff. 2. I have a brain and use it. 3. I refuse to worship a cruel, sadistic god who believes in sending people to hell whether or not they actually deserve it.

 

Can you honestly love and worship a god who will send a little child or baby to hell for having been born into, say, a Jewish family? Or Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Pagan, whatever, if they died at a young age and were not baptized and converted to Christianity? Because that is what the Bible says happens. I cannot love or worship a being who would even consider such an inhumane thing.

 

How can you also love and worship a god whose followers say hates everyone except for them? I cannot believe in such prejudice and bigotry. I will not follow any religion that condones bigotry of any form. That is not me.

 

I also do not believe because I have realized (it took me a long time to figure this out, but I finally did) that the entire religion is just another cult. Just because a cult is popular and everyone else believes in it, doesn't make it any less a cult. Just because not every branch of Christianity has people swallowing poisoned koolaid or killing themselves to board a UFO passing by a comet doesn't make it any less a cult. Just because Christianity in general does the best job of brainwashing that a cult ever has in history doesn't make it less of a cult. Think about that for a while, okay?

[chefranden]

Are you saying there is a disorder between the left side of my brain and the right side of my brain?(I am tring to summarize what I just read)

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I don't know what the Hindus feel. I only know what I feel.

 

No it is not a "disorder" anymore than the sky's blueness is a disorder. It is just the way it is, the way the brain happens to be.

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The Hindu feels as you feel, the difference is in what her culture has taught her to believe about what she feels, therefore she feels Khrisna or another of their many froms of god.

 

She may have been taught to believe that what you feel is false as you have been taught to believe that what she feels is false. Nevertheless, the "feeling" is the same.

[Reality Amplifier]

In my own opinion it's if someone is tring to live a life like Jesus did. Jesus never sinned so I wanna try to stop sinning. That is impossible, I know, but I wanna become as sin-less as I can get.

What is "sin"?

[Reality Amplifier]

Qualitatively there is no difference.  You have a electro/chemical induced moment of asynchronism between your two brain hemispheres, which you have been taught to interpret as the presence of ChristianGod.  If you where muslim you would feel Allah.  If you were Hindu, you would feel Khrisna.  Read this if your filter will allow it.

Chef, you're a treasure.

[Valgeir]

I am a Christian

 

Do you want a cookie? Seriously, I'll see what I can do.

[Ebony_Fox]

Hey everyone it's been an interesting time talking with you. I really learned alot.

I now understand why you feel the way you do.

Thank you for posting to me and keeping an open mind it really meant alot.

My time here is up, I cannot tell you why. I hope you understand.

Please try to take into consideration what I said and what I am going to say. I will read your reponses to this, but I will not write back.

Faith

Faith is the biggest, most needed thing in christianity. Without Faith it is utteraly impossible to believe. God tells his creation to have faith in what he can do. To believe even when it seems like he isn't there, or not real. God tells us He is with us when we are with him, is we seek him he will let us find him, but if we forsake him, he will forsake us. God is a gentleman if we don't want him to come into our lives he wont, but God does say he is a very jelious God whose anger flares when we follow another.Jesus talked highly on faith telling us that with faith the size of a seed we could command mountains. That means we can command the problems in our lives. Faith makes God willing. When Jesus healed the man with leprosy it was the mans faith that made him willing to do so.

Doubt can overcome faith. When peter walked on water it was his doubt that caused him to fall. Some are too stubborn to have Faith and God, being the gentleman that he is trys to get their attention in polite ways, but only truely steps in when the life of his follower is intertiwend with that person.

 

God is real because we are real. "Every painting has its painter." My pastor recently asked me, "What makes you, or anyone else, think they know the essence of God? God is the creator, we are the creation. What makes us think we are so superior or even beside his greatness. If God wanted to he could destroy you and make someone who looks exactly like you and no one would know the difference.But even though he can and has every right to. He won't because he loves us." Everyone of us has broken his laws. We Lie, steal, kill, commit adultry, and lots of other things whether physically or in our minds. We deserve to go to hell for not living up to his standards. But thankfully he realized that no one was going to make it into heaven and decieded to take action because he loved us.

 

That's it. I hope you read it with an open mind and heart. Thank you for having me.

 

Sincerly,

Ebony_Fox

[Ro-bear]

Best wishes to you.

[Caretaker]

Hey everyone it's been an interesting time talking with you. I really learned alot.

I now understand why you feel the way you do.

Thank you for posting to me and keeping an open mind it really meant alot.

My time here is up, I cannot tell you why. I hope you understand.

Please try to take into consideration what I said and what I am going to say. I will read your reponses to this, but I will not write back.

              Faith

Faith is the biggest, most needed thing in christianity. Without Faith it is utteraly impossible to believe. God tells his creation to have faith in what he can do. To believe even when it seems like he isn't there, or not real. God tells us He is with us when we are with him, is we seek him he will let us find him, but if we forsake him, he will forsake us. God is a gentleman if we don't want him to come into our lives he wont, but God does say he is a very jelious God whose anger flares when we follow another.Jesus talked highly on faith telling us that with faith the size of a seed we could command mountains. That means we can command the problems in our lives. Faith makes God willing. When Jesus healed the man with leprosy it was the mans faith that made him willing to do so.

Doubt can overcome faith. When peter walked on water it was his doubt that caused him to fall. Some are too stubborn to have Faith and God, being the gentleman that he is trys to get their attention in polite ways, but only truely steps in when the life of his follower is intertiwend with that person.

 

God is real because we are real. "Every painting has its painter." My pastor recently asked me, "What makes you, or anyone else, think they know the essence of God? God is the creator, we are the creation. What makes us think we are so superior or even beside his greatness. If God wanted to he could destroy you and make someone who looks exactly like you and no one would know the difference.But even though he can and has every right to. He won't because he loves us." Everyone of us has broken his laws. We Lie, steal, kill, commit adultry, and lots of other things whether physically or in our minds. We deserve to go to hell for not living up to his standards. But thankfully he realized that no one was going to make it into heaven and decieded to take action because he loved us.

 

That's it. I hope you read it with an open mind and heart.  Thank you for having me.

 

                        Sincerly,

                          Ebony_Fox

 

 

I think one last important point to share is that my preference is to deduce knowledge through rigorous logic and proof, instead of faith. I operate under the assumption that if a proposition isn't proven true, then I can't assume it to be generally true outside of hypothetical situations.

 

And since I prefer logical deductions over faith, it follows that I remain religionless.