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Goodbye Jesus

The Atheist Conspiracy


dB-Paradox

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Recently, I've been watching videos by Truthers claiming that the Sandy Hook school shooting never happened, and that it's all just a push to change gun laws.  Before I go any further, I need to clarify that I DO NOT share this opinion in the slightest.  What follows are their reasons for their thinking:

 

- There are contradictory accounts of how many shooters there were originally.

- Some eyewitnesses seem to contradict their own stories.

- Robbie Parker (father of Emilie, a 6 year old girl killed in the shooting) doesn't look sad when making his speech.  He looks like he's acting.  In fact, he's even seen smiling and laughing just moments before making his speech.  This doesn't fit with what we would expect from a grieving father.

- Emilie Parker is seen in a photo with Obama two days after the shooting, suggesting she never died.

- None of the parents or staff interviewed have any tears while crying, suggesting that they are "fake crying".

- The Dark Night Rises has a Sandy Hook reference in it (on a map) that suggests it was a planned event.

- There are no photos of the dead bodies.  Truthers will only believe the event happened when they see the photo evidence.

- There is an owl reference that links the event to the Illuminati. 

 

I'm sure there are many more, but these are the more prominent ones.  Every one of these is so stupid that it literally takes no brains to see that.  But follow me here to see if we atheists are doing the same thing, and then offer some suggestions....

 

Like the Truthers, we atheists are saying "Unless there's eyewitness, historical evidence for the life of Jesus as portrayed in the gospels, we have no reason to believe he existed as the gospels say".

Like the Truthers, we are pointing out inconsistencies in the stories of the gospels, and saying they don't fit with how we observe the world around us, and how they contradict each other internally as well.

Like the Truthers, we are demanding physical evidence.  Until we get any, we see no reason to think the Jesus story has much truth to it.

 

Again, I'm not saying that the Truthers have any valid points.  In fact, on every point they make, a logical and reasonable response can be made to counter it.  However, what I am asking is if atheists look like Truthers in any way?  How can we be justified in making our points while easily dismissing the points the Truthers make?  This should be an interesting topic.

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It is an ordinary claim to say that the shooting occurred as reported, and ordinary physical evidence is available to indicate that it's true. There were eyewitnesses who are still alive today. We all know these kinds of things can happen and do happen. To deny a mundane occurrence in light of the evidence is idiotic.

 

An extraordinary claim should require extraordinary evidence. In the case of claims about gods, I might settle for even some ordinary evidence, but there is none. If one proposes an invisible, undetectable, magical realm populated with spirits and divinities, then they need something to back up those fantastic notions or it's just someone's imagination and wishful thinking.

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Excellent!  That's what I keep coming back to in my own mind.

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My son is one of those who believes its a government conspiracy. He has shown me the above evidence and I have to agree they are odd. He has sent more videos that really make me consider it. The car that Lanza drove, didn't belong to his mother. It belonged to a man who has family ties to drug dealing and illegal gun trade. Lanza's father was involved in the Liberia banking scandal and was due to testify. The father of the children that were killed by the nanny who cut her throat in front of his wife, was also involved in the same banking scandal. Since these events, the bank has changed it plea to guilty and there will be no trial or testimony. We also had little press coverage on the Liberia scandal, yet it was very newsworthy.

 

Some of it reminds me of the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. It's sort of like you can connect all sorts of things in every situation if you really try. Yet, what I see makes me wonder.

 

He also thinks the world trade center was a government conspiracy too.

 

He is an atheist (all my children are) and I wonder if that sort of thinking plays a part in not having a belief in god or does that kind of thinking make it easier to believe in god?

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My son is one of those who believes its a government conspiracy.

 

It's quite a different thing to claim an incident is a government conspiracy than to claim it never happened. By dubbing it a conspiracy of whatever kind, you're admitting that it happened. I think the OP says someone is claiming it never happened, and the question is: How similar is that claim to the so-called 'atheist conspiracy'?

 

As though atheists have conspired to get rid of God.

 

To come up with the concept of an atheist conspiracy, one must first assume that God is self-evident and that no one could arrive at the conclusion that there is no god on their own, in the privacy of their own heads as they seek to make sense of the Bible and of Christian doctrines. Such an assumption is preposterous.

 

As former religious people find their own doubts expressed and elucidated by others, possibly online or in print (earlier generations), it helps them firm up their own convictions. That, however, is about the extent of the "conspiracy" that I have yet seen. Some evangelicals will use whatever method--including deception--is required to keep their own in the fold and/or make new recruits for their church. It's very human to assume others are as oneself. Since these religious people use conspiracy to grow their congregations, it stands to reason that they suspect atheists to do the same. Doesn't make it true, though.

 

I agree with florduh where it regards evidence and testimony, etc.

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All of the people I know who are claiming it is just a big government conspiracy are christians.

 

This is the video I see passed around the most:

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"I don't hold with paddlin' with the Occult," said Granny firmly. "Once you start paddlin' with the Occult you start believing in Spirits, and when you start believing in Spirits you start believing in Demons, and then before you know where you are you're believing in Gods. And then you're in trouble." 
"But all them things exist," said Nanny Ogg. 
"That's no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages 'em."

 
 
If God exists and is real and exposed (hehe) himself to us, then there would be no cause to believe in him.  He would become the mundane.   
 
As to why people believe these conspiracies there are many reasons.  Often they are personal,  for me when I believed the UFO cover ups,  it was because things didn't add up, so somebody must be hiding something.   The other side is the U in UFO.  
 
The problem with sandy hook is that it did happen.  Things were very confused. So the reports were confused.  Every first responder knows that the early reports are going to be confused and the situation they are walking into is cloudy at best.  The police's job is to get there and get control of the situation with as minimal loss of life as possible (ideally), Then figure out WTF just happened.
 
As to why a parent may not be crying in public could be very simple.   Some people won't cry in public. They'll fall apart at home. 
 
 
 
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How incredibly insensitive to the parents who lost their children...

 

really? we need to see the dead kids bodies?  Fuck

 

Can we please drag the U.S., kicking and screaming if we have to, into the 21st Century?

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I always want to ask these types if they have ever read an article in a newspaper, to which they have intimate knowledge of the events, that had 100% of the facts correct - according to their own perception of the events. I'm willing to bet they have and thought the newspaper got it all wrong.

 

As for "connecting the dots" as the conspiracy theorists always like to do - One can take a handful of pepper and let it fall to the ground. There will be all sorts of strange patterns but they appear by pure chance; and one person may see different patterns than another. Life is interconnected in all sorts of strange ways. I know I find odd connections between people and things that I know in my limited part of the world all the time. It's just random chance and means nothing, but they have greater meanings to the tin-foil hat crowd and they use these as proof of their wild theories.

 

And I have found all the people on my FB account who are buying into this horrible conspiracy idea, and complaining about any form of gun control, are devout xtians. My friends list has been getting smaller.

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My son is one of those who believes its a government conspiracy. He has shown me the above evidence and I have to agree they are odd. He has sent more videos that really make me consider it. The car that Lanza drove, didn't belong to his mother. It belonged to a man who has family ties to drug dealing and illegal gun trade. Lanza's father was involved in the Liberia banking scandal and was due to testify. The father of the children that were killed by the nanny who cut her throat in front of his wife, was also involved in the same banking scandal. Since these events, the bank has changed it plea to guilty and there will be no trial or testimony. We also had little press coverage on the Liberia scandal, yet it was very newsworthy.

 

Some of it reminds me of the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. It's sort of like you can connect all sorts of things in every situation if you really try. Yet, what I see makes me wonder.

 

He also thinks the world trade center was a government conspiracy too.

 

He is an atheist (all my children are) and I wonder if that sort of thinking plays a part in not having a belief in god or does that kind of thinking make it easier to believe in god?

What information do you have to back up that his father was going to testify?  I love a good government conspiracy, but always check the sources.  

 

Here is a link to some information that contradicts that theory. http://occupycorporatism.com/no-viable-connection-between-peter-lanza-us-senate-libor-hearings/

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Because Christopher Nolan has inside info on government shenanigans...

 

I'm just ignoring this and moving on with my life.

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Occam's Razor. Which is the simpler explanation: 1) a berzerker shot up a school, or 2) thousands of teachers, parents, children, reporters, media executives, movie producers, government bureaucrats, and law enforcement professionals conspired with the federal government to perpetrate a hoax and kept it all a secret, just so Obama could issue an executive order to study gun violence and talk about mental health?

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There is a big difference between citing inconsistencies and conflicting reports from the first days and weeks after a chaotic event like a shooting vs pointing out the contradictions of a document that was written decades after the reported events were to have taken place.

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what I am asking is if atheists look like Truthers in any way?  How can we be justified in making our points while easily dismissing the points the Truthers make?

 

In my experience, atheists tend to go with the most reasonable explanation. 

 

Believing that an invisible magical old man zapped the universe into existence, with no supporting evidence, isn't reasonable.

 

Likewise, believing an invisible, nameless, faceless, "they", orchestrated a massive hoax involving thousands of individuals, including hundreds of small children, parents, an entire town, law enforcement, government, medical professionals, news media, etc. simply to strengthen a political position on gun control, isn't reasonable.

 

That's the difference.

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BTW most of those "claims" made by truthers are totally subjective.    Same as religious claims.

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I LOVE the Christopher Nolan post!  Haha!  And honestly, I made this post to flesh out my thoughts to see how they look out in the open.  And honestly, the Occam's Razor argument is one that makes so much sense, and seeing the Truthers' claims synonymous with religious claims are also a brilliant point.

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