Missing The Cult

[msipsy218]

I'm struggling lately.

 

I miss my friends. I miss the instant respect I received when I said that I was not only a Christian, but a church leader. I miss the attention my children got at church. Hell, I miss the attention I got at church. I miss the mental exercises I would go through to convince myself and others that the bible was real (sounds dumb, but I do).

 

I'm worried more and more about the what-if-I'm-wrongs.

 

Fucking hell. I even miss "jesus"

 

How can you miss something that was never there?!

 

I've even had the stupid thought that I'm struggling because I was "truly saved" and it's the "holy spirit" trying to bring me back...

 

Yea. It's gone there.

 

Is this normal?

[LoneTarus]

I suppose it's normal. I was afraid for a while that something horrible would happen to me because I left the church and turned my back on god. (well, the church would see it that way anyway, I don't now but you know what I mean I'm sure)

 

either way it's all very much just an illusion. I would bet that like me none of the people there that pretended to be your friends still are. I maybe know 2 people from my church days that I can still count on. the rest just vanished from my life when I stopped going to church. including people that I thought were good friends. 

 

The people that seems to be a constant in my life that seem to actually give a shit about me are the ones the church hates and looks down upon. it was a big mistake to turn my back on those people and turn to an imaginary friend instead.  I'm very lucky to still have some of those people in my life still after basically losing my mind for almost 10 years. 

[movingon]

I think so. I went through that phase a few times. Is been about 4 years and I still go through that sometimes. So yes, I think its normal. I'd even go back to christianity for a week and then come to my senses. This last time I knew that's how it'd be so I didn't even try. It gets easier.

[Deva]

You miss it because there WAS something there.  No question about it Msipsy.  There was something.  Now you have to find something to replace it. I can't tell you what it will be, you have to find it for yourself. 

 

Whether or not something is scientifically provable, it had a place in your mind. I would say "heart" but, damn, that is just too xian sounding.  Still it was a place of deep feeling and emotion.  If you took it seriously, which most of us did.

[mymistake]

Fucking hell. I even miss "jesus"

 

How can you miss something that was never there?!

 

If you were like so many of us then Jesus was your imaginary friend.  In that respect your imagination is real.  You still have it with you.  My struggle is slightly different.  I have a profanity problem so when I am stressed I will say "God d@mm!t" but then I remind myself "Oh wait, I am God".  That cheers me up, gets me over the stress and stop using profanity for a while.  You can still conjure up anything spiritual that you enjoyed as a Christian.  You have the same skills.  It's the same Holy Spirit you were filled with before.

 

Give yourself a spiritual hug.

 

 

I've even had the stupid thought that I'm struggling because I was "truly saved" and it's the "holy spirit" trying to bring me back...

 

Yea. It's gone there.

 

Is this normal?

 

Yeah my mom is hanging onto the "once saved always saved" thing.  I wonder why a perfect God wouldn't have "called me home" a few years ago when God supposedly knew I was at the peek of my Christianity and was about to stray.  What helped me get over the stage you are in now was watching youtube vids from Nonstamp Collector, Darkmatter2525, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.  The ones from Nonstamp Collector are usually funny.

[Eugene39]

For me, it's been normal to have those feelings. If I were to go to church and they would happen to sing "It is Well with my Soul" or "How Great Thou Art", it would by all means set those feeling in motion. Intellectually, I know otherwise, but that doesn't really help in the moment when the emotions are high.

[MissingLink]

That is very brave and honest of you to admit.....and even though I am a new atheist as well, I would venture  to say that what you are feeling is very normal.  I have had similar thoughts.

 

Over Christmas, I went to the Xmas Eve service with the family because my brother was singing a solo.  I used to sing in our praise team band.  If there is one thing I miss about church, it is singing.  Sure, some of the music is derivative, but a lot of it is beautiful.  Sitting there, I couldn't help but think how easy it would be to return to the music and the fellowship.  And there are quite a few people who would be very relieved and happy if I returned. 

 

But I can't do it.  As simplistic as this sounds, I can only compare it to trying to believe in Santa Claus again.  It's just not possible for me.  Reading through posts on this site has been so helpful in not feeling like I am the only one.  I am also starting to participate in atheist meet-up groups in my town  -  I  need to look into finding a secular chorus group! 

 

It IS difficult making the transition out of church and giving up that feeling of belonging and being a part of something important.  I had the same experience as LoneTarus - I am no longer in contact with any of my former church friends - but I still have a couple of good friends whose friendship was not based on religion, and I'm branching out to meet new ones. 

 

Best of luck to you as you find your way through this life-change......I'm sure there will be many words of encouragment for you here......

[Annier]

I think its quite normal to miss what you had, it was a major part of your life, your support system.

 

My deconversion was less traumatic.  Because of circumstances I had not been a regular churchgoer for many years, and so I didn't have that fellowship aspect to lose.  

 

Even so, I found it hard to let go of Jesus.  He had been my constant friend and companion.  The only one I could rely on to always be there when I needed comfort.

 

When I came to the point of realisation that I was no longer a xtian, that Jesus was in my own imagination, I still decided to keep him in my life.   I knew he wasn't real, and possibly had never been a real person, but some of the teachings attributed to him were quite awesome, imo.

 

So, I kept my imaginary friend, had conversations with him, of the non-religious kind, and my reliance on him dwindled.  After a few months of this, I realised I could let him go.   He was imaginary, after all and I could survive, happily without him.

 

To an observer, this may seem a bit weird, crazy, insane, but it was necessary....... for me.   I knew what I was doing, and I eventually said goodbye to jesus when the time was right for me.

 

You will find things to replace what you have lost.   You can join a secular group, perhaps a community centre, as I did.   The non-religous people in your community have their ways of developing friendships and support groups.   Find out what they do.

 

And of course you always have the members here at ExC  

[NeverAgainV]

I don't think you are alone with the feelings of "missing" what you had with christianity. I did miss the "relationships" though most of them, if not all of them were very superficial....but still, it was someone

to "hang" with. I miss the camaraderie for sure!  That & also the fucking KNOWING, I KNEW God has saved me, I KNEW I had "the Truth^tm" I KNEW that I had heaven in my future...Oh I sure miss that knowing!!

Ha...so much of what I thought I knew, but was BS...so glad I can laugh about it now.

 

Anyhow, I think it's lonely when you first leave for sure. Even if it was abusive....there was at least...something... even though it wasn't healthy. I think the key is to find something in yourself, your family, kids, a hobby join a humanist club, poetry club, something anything but going back to xianity. To this day I can't call myself an atheist, yeah...I still hold out for the hope of something after "this life" but one  thing I made up my mind about is that no good god would look anything like "bible god". I understand your missing the good stuff from christianity, but what always kept me from going back was all of the BAD SHIT stuff that is in it.

Like eating brownies with shit in 'em....NO Thanks!

 

Hang in there honey, you are NOT alone. (((HUGS)))   PS Julilyn, I do miss the singing, not the songs because I didn't care for them olde tyme hymns, I just wish I could find a non-religious singing group too!

I have to see what Humanists have going on as far as music.......

[J.W.]

You should go then.

 

Just don't sell yourself out or shut your brain off. I went for a while longer than I want to too. Now you couldn't drag me there. 

 

Follow your heart. Maybe there is still something to learn there-- even if it is just coming to peace with who you were then so you can let it go

[RipVanWinkle]

misipsi28: There must be something in the air. I wrote in another thread just last night a post similar to yours. My situation is different in that I haven't really missed going to church or Sunday school class. I have an introverted type of personality, so I miss the mental aspects of Xtianiy. By that I mean Bible study, reading Xtian books. I was always trying to tie down exactly what the concepts were and what constituted "true" Xtiianity. But like you, some of those old Xtian songs, e.g., Amazing Grace, really touched me emotionally. They still do.

 

One thing I am comfortable with is that I know too much to ever go back to that kind of thinking. If I did, I would ask so many questions that nobody would want me in the same room with me.

 

                                                                                                         bill

[mymistake]

When I left Church it felt like I lost friends but really those were just the people I saw at church.  We had no interaction outside of church.  Now I try to find activities to do during church time and I get to see who else isn't into church.  Mostly I take my family to the park during church time and sure enough there are a bunch of other familes there ditching church too.  Go make new friends.

[TwistedHiss]

Maybe you could be 'missing' all those things from an ignorance-is-bliss standpoint? (Re: deities that were never there.)

 

The respect and attention - you can replace that. In fact, you can garner more genuine respect for speaking your mind and thinking for yourself. Something many are afraid to do. Their respect wasn't real if it vanished that bloody quickly.

 

I think it is normal. Christianity is a mind-virus. I think certain things can trigger remnants of it's fear and loneliness programming (Re: the 'what-if-I'm-wrongs'). Like, even though you delete certain viruses or worms off your computer, traces can still remain. Like those damn annoying ones that would hijack search engines and results incessantly - sometimes even after you thought the problem was removed - *poof* there you'd be typing something into Google and still annoyingly being redirected to some obscure garbage links.

 

You're thinking: "I prefer non-belief in my mind..." but *poof* - redirected to Christianity! Just a brain hijack

 

While acknowledging what you miss, also ponder on what you don't miss to help you through it.

[JadedAtheist]

You obviously had a lot of identity in the church. Being "somebody" in church is very different than being "nobody" out of it. I guess the key thing to remember is that you aren't nobody, you are somebody and you don't need other people to tell you that for it to be true. When you think about it, the whole respect thing wasn't real anyway. They didn't respect you as a person for who you are or what you do because if they did they would still respect you. They only adored the title and you were promptly discarded once you left it. Remember that people who truly love, care and respect you would never treat you differently like these people would have.

[TrueFreedom]

Perfectly normal--took me years to decide that I was done.  You might want to check out Emergent Christianity or Unitarianism.  Pete Rollins has been where we are and returned to re-define post-faith, post-woo, post-theistic Christianity: http://peterrollins.net/

 

Hugs ((Michelle))!

[Ross]

I for one have not missed anything of this cult. I do not miss being misunderstood. I do not miss having to go to all church events or you could be backsliding. I do not miss the innuendo that my ex-wife allowed to spread about me without correcting any of it with the truth. I do not miss the guilt ride you are put on. I do not miss being worried about being scared to question anything. The friends I had in the church that remained friends are the ones that fled the church before me.

 

When I moved over to a mainstream denomination I was not understood when it came to how bad the independent movement is. Very few had any idea how much deeper the abuse was compared to what they were going through without knowing it.

 

Sorry I spent over 20 years in xtianity and I do not miss a thing or a person from it.

[Mike D]

I think when people say they miss Christianity, I wonder if what they are missing is:  familiarity, routine, a sense of community, a sense of security, etc.

 

If it was really just the Christianity, you don't need all those other things - just pull out a Bible, read it and pray in your own home.

 

Personally I didn't miss all those things when I left Christianity, because, well.... I never fit in there in the first place.  As a kid when my parents would drag me kicking and screaming to church (think Damien), I didn't really get along with the other teens in my youth group, I thought most of them were boring or they were idiots.  Basically, church and religion was "not cool" and there was definitely nothing cool about the Bible either.  Couldn't they have found some other way to torture me?

 

I think there are people who stick with church even if they are no longer believers, just for the reasons you mentioned.  Not sure there's anything wrong with that....

[Serendipity Rose]

msipsy,

 

What you are feeling is very normal. Even if it wasn't religion or belief in an imaginary being it would be normal. Change is difficult especially if it was something that you were really wrapped up in. 

 

My leaving of the church was very different since I was skeptical since I was young. I wanted very much to get involved and DO something good but I could never get over the contradictions and the conditional help that the church provided people. Once I finally left church for good I immersed myself in doing all of the good I'd always wanted to do before! 

 

If you don't have a secular progressive community around you to get involved in, make one! Ok, that takes some patience but although the internet is a great place to learn and grow, it can never replace real-life human interaction! 

 

You could try going back to church but you probably won't be there long before you'll see how flimsy and conditional those relations really were. 

[msipsy218]

either way it's all very much just an illusion. I would bet that like me none of the people there that pretended to be your friends still are. I maybe know 2 people from my church days that I can still count on. the rest just vanished from my life when I stopped going to church. including people that I thought were good friends. 

 

The people that seems to be a constant in my life that seem to actually give a shit about me are the ones the church hates and looks down upon. it was a big mistake to turn my back on those people and turn to an imaginary friend instead.  I'm very lucky to still have some of those people in my life still after basically losing my mind for almost 10 years. 

 

Yep. My children's godparents won't speak to us. My 6 year old called a former good friend of ours (someone who used to babysit her on a regular basis and would have sleepovers with her daughter often) to see if she wanted to buy girl scout cookies from her. She didn't answer and never returned my daughter's call.....

 

I almost lost a few really good people thanks to the way I behaved while I was a xian, some people I did lose, but it turns out a lot of non-believers are really forgiving.

 

 

 What helped me get over the stage you are in now was watching youtube vids from Nonstamp Collector, Darkmatter2525, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.  The ones from Nonstamp Collector are usually funny.

 

 

I'll check them out, thanks.

 

 

You should go then.

 

Just don't sell yourself out or shut your brain off. I went for a while longer than I want to too. Now you couldn't drag me there. 

 

Follow your heart. Maybe there is still something to learn there-- even if it is just coming to peace with who you were then so you can let it go

 

I'm just now getting the fuckers to leave me alone, I don't want to give them any encouragement lol. Seriously though, I don't really miss church. I never really enjoyed getting up early and fixing myself up. I just miss the "fellowship." I guess. And I know I wouldn't get that, even if I did go back.

 

 

When I left Church it felt like I lost friends but really those were just the people I saw at church.  We had no interaction outside of church.  Now I try to find activities to do during church time and I get to see who else isn't into church.  Mostly I take my family to the park during church time and sure enough there are a bunch of other familes there ditching church too.  Go make new friends.

 

New friends is a good idea. That's exactly what I need. It was always so easy to be social in the church bc everything was child friendly, now I don't know where to look for child-friendly social interactions lol. The park on Sunday is a good idea.

 

You obviously had a lot of identity in the church. Being "somebody" in church is very different than being "nobody" out of it. I guess the key thing to remember is that you aren't nobody, you are somebody and you don't need other people to tell you that for it to be true. When you think about it, the whole respect thing wasn't real anyway. They didn't respect you as a person for who you are or what you do because if they did they would still respect you. They only adored the title and you were promptly discarded once you left it. Remember that people who truly love, care and respect you would never treat you differently like these people would have.

 

perfect. thank you

 

I think when people say they miss Christianity, I wonder if what they are missing is:  familiarity, routine, a sense of community, a sense of security, etc.

 

If it was really just the Christianity, you don't need all those other things - just pull out a Bible, read it and pray in your own home.

 

That's what it is, really. I'm feeling lonely and unimportant. When I was in the church I felt like I was making a difference in the world because I believed that god was "using me" blah blah blah. Obviously it wasn't always that happy. But for some reason that's all I'm remembering right now :/

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi msipsy, I too think your feelings are a normal part of most people's process.  My faith collapsed almost in an instant, but its residue lasted years.  Actually hanging around on here helped me feel a lot better about ditching the cult, because I came to see its many contradictions and fallacies much more clearly.  The new friends part is important, too, and those relationships take time to grow.

[Guest MadameX]

Join a Unitarian church. You can have pretty much all those things you missed without the wacky dogma. UUs are big into social action, making the world a better place. You can make a difference in thew world, for sure, and no god required.

[Deva]

One other thing you might look at is the Quakers. See if there is a meeting house. I have a friend who doesn't believe any of the Christian doctrine and still likes to go to a Quaker meeting occasionally.  They are nice people who are involved in social action, like the UUs.

[maxmaxmaxmax]

The feelings are normal and valid. Yes, there is the church side of it with the fellowship etc., but you also mention the feeling of missing Jesus himself, which I think is less talked about and less well understood.

 

I miss many of the feelings of being a christian. Some are to do with having an imaginary friend, some are to do with 'knowing' someone is in control, some are to do with feeling used by god to do good in the world, as you mention.

 

The point I'd make is that even though there is nothing supernatural behind them, these are still real feelings. You really felt them. And you really miss them now. So that means it's OK to miss them, because that doesn't contradict any belief you hold about their source. So you don't have to feel guilty, as if you're letting the rationalist side down. You're not.

 

In my opinion, atheists do a disservice when they discard all of this as nonsense. It's not. God is nonsense, burning bushes and talking donkeys are nonsense, but the actual feeling of having a relationship with someone you are convinced is there, is just as real as the feeling of any relationship if you ask me. So the first step is to recognize this.

 

Then I guess, as others say, find sustainable ways of meeting those same needs, for friendship, companionship, child-friendly environments and support, doing good with others, putting your intellect to use, expressing yourself or having fun. What do I mean by sustainable? I mean because these new things will be based on reality, they won't let you down. In fact they will be better. They are not going to change their mind on a whim, they will listen to you and your needs, they will earn your trust not demand it, they will treat you with respect. They might not be there 24/7, but actually that's quite nice too, a bit of freedom and privacy to be yourself.

 

I'm probably on this second step of gradually putting in place things that provide me with everything I miss or have missed from my days as a believer.  And honestly it is working. When Evid3nc3 said in his introduction to the deconversion series that "My needs as a person are fulfilled now in an even greater way" I didn't believe him because I thought he was just too embarrassed to say he feels sadder as a result of deconverting. Now I'm starting to see that he could have a point.

[florduh]

I didn't read the whole thing; did anyone mention Stockholm Syndrome yet? You know, many ex-cons commit more crimes just so they can return to the security of the prison they got used to. 

[HymenaeusAlexander]

 What helped me get over the stage you are in now was watching youtube vids from Nonstamp Collector, Darkmatter2525, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.  The ones from Nonstamp Collector are usually funny.

 

 

I'll check them out, thanks.

 

For me, it's really helped to find stuff that just points out how silly the whole thing is. My wife and I just watched Religulous last night and it felt good to see someone ridicule at all that crap. After that, I knew I could never go back to even liberal Christianity.

with Nonstampcollector's videos and don't be drinking anything 'cause you will laugh your ass off.