Chikirin Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I notice this charge a lot from Christians. But it really has nothing to do with whether something is true or not. A person might be extremely gentle and humble, yet be wrong. A person might be arrogant and condescending, and be correct. The Christian can't prove the atheist wrong, so they resort to charges of arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MadameX Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Of course this is typical when anyone feels they are backed into a corner to lash out with an ad hominem or to start with emotional manipulation s (threats, etc) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 You are arrogant for thinking that you don't know everything. You would realize this if only you were humble enough to be in a personal relationship with the creator of the universe who speaks infinite wisdom directly into the minds of those who are willing to listen. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockoff Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 We're so arrogant we doubt the notion that the creator of all time and space sent his only son to our one particlar planet and our one particular species to be brutally murdered for us, communicates with us telepathically, and obsesses over our sex life. Yes, we're pretty high on ourselves for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I am not aware of any way to call, or insinuate, someone is an idiot, or not too smart, and do it in a way that is not either insulting or condescending. In essence that is usually how our attempts to educate a believer come off. And in some cases our condescending attitudes aren’t all that subtle. And if the truth be known that may be exactly what we intended. And it has come to my attention, through personal experience, there is such a thing as militant atheists. Most people aren’t receptive to a militant, know it all, attitude no matter what the subject matter might be. I think it is fair criticism to say we might want to examine our true reasons for engaging a believer. Are we honestly attempting to educate or are we really just wanting to attack and belittle them? We may honestly not know the answer to that question but I guarantee you they will by the way we express ourselves. I have found myself asking why I think a believer needs to be de-converted? If they are happy with their present status what would be the purpose of me essentially breaking their imaginary bubble of happiness and shoving my reality into their unsuspecting faces? My attitude and motives change if they are trying to bring me back into the fold or they voluntarily express doubts and concerns about their faith and beliefs. I interpret that as an invitation to offer a different perspective on their situation, but I still need to be mindful of their feelings and the vulnerable position they are in at that stage in their life. Letting go of Jesus, God, and the bible, less we forget, is often an enormously emotional experience for many people that often has unintended emotional consequences that may be quite traumatic for the person who is suddenly experiencing all this new reality. Everything they believed, loved, and held dear for much of their lives or their entire life has suddenly been destroyed right before their eyes. Some people can’t handle that without profession help. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 given how arrogant and in your face many christians are.....turn about is fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockoff Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think it is fair criticism to say we might want to examine our true reasons for engaging a believer. Are we honestly attempting to educate or are we really just wanting to attack and belittle them? It's kind of like having sinusitis and blowing your nose constantly. You know you're just making the problem worse, but you're annoyed and feel like you have to do something, even if it only gives you some momentary relief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Anyone can be arrogant. Anyone can think in a black and white pattern and be a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 given how arrogant and in your face many christians are.....turn about is fair play. "Some" Christian but certainly not all of them and the same applies to non-believers. Some are assholes and some aren't. The point I was attempting to make in my original post was a person's motive. What is the real purpose of the engagement? Is the intent to educate or simply belittle and insult. And you are correct that goes both ways. I've found it's pretty easy to determine intent early on in the conversation. If I detect hostility I disengage and walk away, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think it is fair criticism to say we might want to examine our true reasons for engaging a believer. Are we honestly attempting to educate or are we really just wanting to attack and belittle them? It's kind of like having sinusitis and blowing your nose constantly. You know you're just making the problem worse, but you're annoyed and feel like you have to do something, even if it only gives you some momentary relief. Did I mention I spent 7 years on an ex church of Christ web site engaging die hard fundamentalists about the supposed inerrancy of the bible? I assure you I know a thing or two about insults and all that goes with challenging a fundamentalists sacred beliefs, but I managed to make some inroads during that time too. Eventually, I converted, or outed, a small little group that began to side with my views and even occasionally defended my POV. I limited my participation to a specific section of the board that was designed to discuss such thinking, but that didn’t alleviate the fundies tendency to attack and insult me. I eventually realized it just comes with the territory. I was completely surprised to find out how many people were unhappy with my decision to permanently log off the site when I made it known that I was moving over here. I found out that I was more influential than I realized. I wasn't attempting to convert believers to non-believers I was simply trying to show the bible wasn't literally, historically, or factually true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I've heard the "atheists are arrogant" charge, but never levied against me specifically except for online a few times. I think its a manifestation of their inner doubt. they know what they believe is, or will be percieved of as stupid, and hence, its a defence. It takes away from the fact, in their minds, that they know what they believe is inferior and sense that you know what you believe makes more sense, hence the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 How is it arrogant to say, "I don't know"? When it comes to science though, yes, I'm arrogant I guess. Facts are facts... or as Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does". If an idea is stupid and against reality... I'll call it for what it is. There is a difference between tolerance and compassion. People deserve compassion, ideas don't. Is it just me or are the religious really easily offended? (by facts) It seems like their egos are very fragile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A lot of the anger and insults on this site are really directed at religion in general, and the wayward christian in the LD is the avatar. For some it's a chance to put into words what they've been thinking and feeling for months or years. With a church for every three people in America and relentless religion on tv, radio, internet, and in daily life, christianty enjoys it's own bully presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I will be less arrogant when Christians support their allegations with some kind of proof and when they cease their self-righteous indignation when caught lying through their teeth about miraculous events. I can be less arrogant when Christians quit trying to change history to support their version of alternate reality in history (primarily US history) and quit trying to claim they are scientists in support of (un)intelligent design or creationism. In other words, I cannot carry on intelligent and meaningful dialog with Christians who act like their faith is more believable than discoveries in science that prove the mythology of Christian doctrine. Or to put it another way, Christians do not need to be 'born again,' they need to grow up if they expect to carry on a conversation with other adults. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 You are too arrogant to admit you need a god whose existence, much less concern for anything on earth, has never been proven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Instead of humbling yourself and worshiping their god you put anything, and everything (worst of all...yourself), first. Even to the point of not acknowledging this god at all. This is arrogant. More arrogant than "satan" who at least acknowledges this god exists and is great but thinks himself its better. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 given how arrogant and in your face many christians are.....turn about is fair play. "Some" Christian but certainly not all of them and the same applies to non-believers. Some are assholes and some aren't. The point I was attempting to make in my original post was a person's motive. What is the real purpose of the engagement? Is the intent to educate or simply belittle and insult. And you are correct that goes both ways. I've found it's pretty easy to determine intent early on in the conversation. If I detect hostility I disengage and walk away, but that's just me. Thus the use of the word "many". I tend to believe that most people honestly believe they are doing good as they see it. I also believe that not everyone should be "on the front lines" if you will of engagement. They simply don't have the personality for it. I have heard arrogance described as the fear of vulnerability. From what I have seen on youtube and other places, once those vulnerabilities are triggered in on party the conversation devolves into a shouting match. With fundy christians this tends to be when the bible is called into question. With atheists this tends to be when their intelligence is called into question, or more often when what they have said is twisted or misrepresented. People can be riled up by hitting the right buttons. And you are right sometimes all you can do is wish them well and turn you back and walk away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcdWWhi6snc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Arrogant seems like a word that gets thrown around a lot these days so I looked it up on Google. ar·ro·gant /ˈarəgənt/ Adjective Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. Synonyms haughty - proud - conceited - supercilious - lofty I think from the fundy Christian point of view, the atheist is arrogant for the reasons cited by Lileth and MWC: Lileth: You are too arrogant to admit you need a god.... MWC: Instead of humbling yourself and worshiping their god you put anything, and everything (worst of all...yourself), first. Even to the point of not acknowledging this god at all. This is arrogant. More arrogant than "satan" who at least acknowledges this god exists and is great but thinks himself its better. To the fundy Christian, deferring to anything or anyone before God would be idolatrous. To elevate the human intellect, esp. one's own, above that of their God--who says to "Have no other Gods before me"--automatically makes a person appear to be all the terrible things in the definition above. However, the case is not that simple. I think we all know the parable of the talents and the man who didn't use his. The one talent that man had was taken from him and he was severely punished. MESSAGE: Use your talents. Righto! Where I come from, a talented woman loves housekeeping and does it well. She is also a good host and loves having visitors over for a meal. She will do all the little things to make visitors comfy and happy and keep them entertained. If she's an extra-talented woman she will also have the gift of not putting people down, negotiating peace between conflicting parties, seeing both sides of a situation, etc. In other words, she will be able to evaluate abstract problems and solve them. This may include the ability to read and write deep literature. Okay-doke. I have one talent. Housekeeping and hosting are not among them. I'm probably not great at negotiating between enemies, either, because I tend to get both sides united in fighting me. But am I ever good at evaluating abstract theory in literature most people won't even touch. This includes the more hidden passages of the Bible. I would love people to discuss these concepts with me, to challenge me on my level so I can better seek out the holes in my arguments. Instead of doing that, I am condemned for using my single talent. I am labeled stupid, arrogant, and self-willed. Being a humble person, I accept that I probably am stupid, but the antidote for stupidity is to learn from people who know the answers, who are smarter than me. So I ask my questions--not the really bad questions, just the more tolerable ones--in an effort to learn how to be the kind of person I should be. No answer. I'm left to fend for myself. And so I do. Facing the choice of doing myself in or breaking every rule of the church I opt for the latter and get myself an education. Now I'm doing two things extremely well: 1. I'm exercising my single talent. 2. I'm getting into deep trouble with everyone I ever loved or thought dear. Conclusion: The Bible is a trap. Unless you happen to fit in, you're "Damned if you do and damned if you don't." Being a humble submissive person seeking truth at all costs has nothing to do with it. Bottom line: CHRISTIANITY RULES. Whoever challenges its tenets--you guessed it--they're A-R-R-O-G-A-N-T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 /ˈarəgənt/ arrogant I've always pronounced it, and heard it pronounced ɛɻou̯gɛʔ, but never like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'll just pretend I was the first person to respond and that I'm only responding to the topic name in the way that first popped into my head... ready? "So fucking what?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Arrogance certainly isn't illegal. Doesnt everyone think they are a little bit smarter or better than the rest of the herd? :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Arrogance certainly isn't illegal. Doesnt everyone think they are a little bit smarter or better than the rest of the herd? :-) Obviously theists think they're smarter than atheists. Remember the Bible verse: The fool has said in his heart there is no God. That's in Psalms. Atheists have no monopoly on calling others stupid or foolish. And if calling others stupid/foolish is what it takes to qualify as arrogant... No, it's not illegal. Sending someone to hell comes awfully close to being illegal, though, if it can be qualified as a death threat. However, to assume the knowledge and authority to tell a friend or relative they're going to hell because of their private thoughts and convictions is considered socially acceptable and totally legal because it's Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 What many Christians believe to be 'atheist arrogance', is that they are actually listening to someone who uses their head for more than just a hat rack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 What many Christians believe to be 'atheist arrogance', is that they are actually listening to someone who uses their head for more than just a hat rack. Speaking of hats, nice sombrero, sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Arrogance certainly isn't illegal. Doesnt everyone think they are a little bit smarter or better than the rest of the herd? :-) Obviously theists think they're smarter than atheists. Remember the Bible verse: The fool has said in his heart there is no God. That's in Psalms. Atheists have no monopoly on calling others stupid or foolish. And if calling others stupid/foolish is what it takes to qualify as arrogant... No, it's not illegal. Sending someone to hell comes awfully close to being illegal, though, if it can be qualified as a death threat. However, to assume the knowledge and authority to tell a friend or relative they're going to hell because of their private thoughts and convictions is considered socially acceptable and totally legal because it's Christian. Unfortunately a child can be mentally emotionally abused by this type of brainwashing. Fortunately an adult can tell a Christian to fuck off or blaspheme the holy spirit. Here's the code from NV about harassment. Looks like Christianity is organized harassment: "Definitions: (From NRS) A person is guilty of HARASSMENT if: (a) Without lawful authority, the person knowingly threatens: To cause bodily injury in the future to the person threatened or to any other person; To cause physical damage to the property of another person; To subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint; or To do any act which is intended to substantially harm the person threatened or any other person with respect to his or her physical or mental health or safety; and ( The person by words or conduct places the person receiving the threat in reasonable fear that the threat will be carried out." Too bad I dont feel reasonable fear from these idiots anymore. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts